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I Must Ask You All Something...


hedberg

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(I am NOT trying to flame anyone!)

 

...every week can I read on this forum new messages from people who wants to ban different things within Geocaching, or they wants to know who to sue if they get injured in a park, or if it should be legal to place McDonalds toys in the cache, or if caches shouldn't be allowed near graveyards, or if caches shouldn't be allowed to be made out of plastics... and so on...

 

It seems like people want to ban EVERYTHING and make all the fun unlegal!

 

I am sitting in front of the computer and just stairing on the screen and saying "What the duck!?" :blink: all the time, because some of these demands are so incredible insane for me.

 

Therefor I must ask you guys, do you also get this feeling? That people are trying to strangle Geocaching as a sport with a lot of demands of regulations about everything.

 

You know, users are seeing strange things here on GC.coms forum, and then they discuss it on off-GC.com forums (not run by GC.com or Groundspeak.com), such a Geocaching organizations forums.

Edited by hedberg
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Therefor I must ask you guys, do you also get this feeling? That people are trying to strangle Geocaching as a sport with a lot of demands of regulations about everything.

Not really. Most geocachers don't even read the forums, and they're just having fun with the hobby. Even the complainers in forums are a minority - granted, sometimes making a lot of noise, but still a minority.

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Therefor I must ask you guys, do you also get this feeling? That people are trying to strangle Geocaching as a sport with a lot of demands of regulations about everything.

Sometimes I get the feeling the requests for new this or that will never stop, and then I realize they probably won't. At no point will gc.com ever be perfect.

As for strangle... It seems to me at least that many of the those requisting changes are either forum regulars who reallly want something changed, and will suggest it several times in various forms.

or the other side and much bigger group of suggesters are people that don't seem to visit the forums much and as such don't realize that they are the 2nd person this month to suggest caches be rated, be scored, not be too hard, all colored blue, or whatever. Between them, some sort of change is always being discussed, which is good, but also boring... especially if you want nothing at all to change.

Maybe take a break from the forums for a few days and relax?? I mean you know that lots of things will discussed, but probably none of them will get beyond 'i think this' 'well yes,no, maybe, Because...' :blink:

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Somewhat off topic but... every so often someone brings up the comment "the majority of cachers don't read the forums, and THEY would rather <WHATEVER>"

 

This reminds me of those comments in years past that talked about what the "silent majority" wanted.

 

Unless someone can statistically prove otherwise (polls, etc.) I believe the forums posters are a representative cross-section of geocaching that has only one attribute in common that makes them not representative: they share the attribute of being people who like to post on forums.

 

Again, unless someone can prove that liking to post on forums is statistically correlated to some other preference/dislike of Geocaching, all comments about "the majority who don't post like/dislike XYZ" look equally speculative.

 

-Jif

Edited by TeamJiffy
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Nice post, Hedberg! Yeah, a lot of the time it does seem like that's what's happening, people are trying to strangle the fun out of caching. But, as has also been mentioned, that group is very small and each time they throw a fit trying to get more rules, they lose more credibility. Thanks for the insightful post, and the positive approach you used. :blink:

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I'm a tad more optimistic. If you notice a VERY small number if people here are bellyaching, some of them repeatedly and vociferously, but a very small percentage overall.

 

Don't sweat those who will find the bad or inconvenient in every venture. Notice that often folks are whining about inconvenience; AS is so popular that I have to scroll past it on the menu, MY virtual wasn't approved fast enough, I want this, I want that, I ,I, I,I ......

 

I have been involved in too many co-operative ventures to listen too closely to the constant complainers. You will find them in your local Boy Scouts den, at your school's PTA, in your church, at the family reunion. Take a look around. Groundspeak rules the roost. The vast majority of players come and go happily as the interest hits them, some stay a while and some play until they are bored and get out.

 

Just read and smile. If you agree or disagree, feel free to say so. Don't be afraid to stand up to the chronic whiners or back a good idea. Don't be shy about praising good performance. Don't worry, be happy.

Edited by Torry
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Someone is always going to complain about something. Theres always going to be someone who wants to change the rules and tell people how things should be.

 

Its no different than the rest of the things we enjoy in life.

 

-Someone tries to tell use what kind of movies we can or can't watch.

-Television we can / can't watch.

-Music we can / can't listen to.

-What to read / not read

-What to eat / not eat

-What to buy / not buy

-Too much violence in video games.

 

We just get to here about it more often because this very forum is a great tool for expressing our opinions.

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I wish everybody would just shut the $%^& UP and remember how they felt when they first started caching.

I don't want to remember how I felt when I first started caching. I had just lost my father, my two dogs, my job, my favorite pickup, my best friend, I had such terrible back problems I could hardly walk, and my wife was being tested for possible cancer. So, instead of shutting the $%^& up, you just dredged up a lot of terrible memories for me. Thanks. Thanks a lot. :(

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I wish everybody would just shut the $%^& UP  and remember how they felt when they first started caching.

I don't want to remember how I felt when I first started caching. I had just lost my father, my two dogs, my job, my favorite pickup, my best friend, I had such terrible back problems I could hardly walk, and my wife was being tested for possible cancer. So, instead of shutting the $%^& up, you just dredged up a lot of terrible memories for me. Thanks. Thanks a lot. :(

I still love you, man!!!!!

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I wish everybody would just shut the $%^& UP  and remember how they felt when they first started caching.

I don't want to remember how I felt when I first started caching. I had just lost my father, my two dogs, my job, my favorite pickup, my best friend, I had such terrible back problems I could hardly walk, and my wife was being tested for possible cancer. So, instead of shutting the $%^& up, you just dredged up a lot of terrible memories for me. Thanks. Thanks a lot. :(

I still love you, man!!!!!

Thanks....now I feel better! :D

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...Therefor I must ask you guys, do you also get this feeling? That people are trying to strangle Geocaching as a sport with a lot of demands of regulations about everything...

 

All anyone is trying to do is help the game be more fun. Every last one of us has a different vision on what that is and every last one of us is entitled to say something about it. If nobody said jack then this game would still be a "stash hunt" and food would still be ok.

 

Some people just don't get that an interplay of ideas means everyone is invited to the table. Not just your clone minded individuals.

 

Those who would squelch ideas in any form either just don't get the big picture, or their own view of what's fun is that nobody should complain, whine, or provide constructive criticisms, and that's ok too.

 

What I'm trying to say is that anyone involved in geocaching to makes a suggestion has their heart in the right place. People who complain their cache wasn't approved, well gimme a break already. Cache owners make this sport happen. They deserve a lot of credit for putting a cache out there for us to enjoy even if this site won't approve it for reasons that may be good, bad or specific to this sites own interests.

 

When people from outside geocaching come in and demand we quit, then yeah I do get that they are trying to strangle geocaching and their hearts are not in the right place.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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...Therefor I must ask you guys, do you also get this feeling? That people are trying to strangle Geocaching as a sport with a lot of demands of regulations about everything...

 

All anyone is trying to do is help the game be more fun. Every last one of us has a different vision on what that is and every last one of us is entitled to say something about it. If nobody said jack then this game would still be a "stash hunt" and food would still be ok.

 

Some people just don't get that an interplay of ideas means everyone is invited to the table. Not just your clone minded individuals.

 

Those who would squelch ideas in any form either just don't get the big picture, or their own view of what's fun is that nobody should complain, whine, or provide constructive criticisms, and that's ok too.

 

What I'm trying to say is that anyone involved in geocaching to makes a suggestion has their heart in the right place. People who complain their cache wasn't approved, well gimme a break already. Cache owners make this sport happen. They deserve a lot of credit for putting a cache out there for us to enjoy even if this site won't approve it for reasons that may be good, bad or specific to this sites own interests.

 

When people from outside geocaching come in and demand we quit, then yeah I do get that they are trying to strangle geocaching and their hearts are not in the right place.

I don't think he was complaining about the people who have a decently placed request, listen to the discussion, and accept the outcome. At least for me, I get mucho tired of the continual griping and moaning from the same people. Yeah, they are entitled to their opinions, but forcibly cramming them down everyone's throats everytime we turn around is a bit much. And you have to admit, there are handful that even start those threads only to stir the pot and try to gain some more attention.

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...I don't think he was complaining about the people who have a decently placed request, listen to the discussion, and accept the outcome. At least for me, I get mucho tired of the continual griping and moaning from the same people. Yeah, they are entitled to their opinions, but forcibly cramming them down everyone's throats everytime we turn around is a bit much. And you have to admit, there are handful that even start those threads only to stir the pot and try to gain some more attention.

It's a double edged sword. If the person forcing an opinion shares one you hold they are the voice of reason beating back the mongrel hordes, yet again, wont the frigging morons ever learn? If it's someone you disagree with (unless you enjoy their style of disagreement) then they are forcing their stupid opinion down everyone throats and trying to bend the will of the site to matc their own, why the hell can’t they see reason or at least just go the hell away?

 

One thing I learned in life long before I found the forums is you don’t have to agree with someone to like them and you don’t have to like them to know that they have integrity, but just rub you wrong. If you know that you can work with them and get a job done. If you can’t, your just a ditz. If it's in the forums most of your posts will start to resemble ‘so and so sucks’.

 

Sparky you are a straight shooter, and I suspect you will always will be. I think you leared that lesson about people a long time ago. I've always liked straight shooters. You can lump me in whatever handful you want and I'll still enjoy your posts, especually when something really catches your attention.

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Honestly, I get tired of reading thread after thread on the same dead horse topics, whether I agree with them or not. There are a lot of issues that have been crammed down people's throats here that I do agree with, and a lot that I don't agree with. Point is, why do people have to be constantly choked with the same words, agree or not?

 

As far as I know, I've always been a straight shooter, and always will be. I'll speak my mind a few times, but I can only say so much on a subject. Same with anyone else. Some folks will try to burn an entire thesaurus on a subject, yet never say anything different. I'm not like that, and I don't like that type of arguing. Speak your mind, make your points, then shut up. Going on and on and on isn't getting anyone anywhere. Brainwashing isn't the proper way to gain an ally. If a person is weak enough to be brainwashed to your particular point of view, they are too weak to be a member of the team, IMO.

 

That said, I'll step aside, hit the litter box on my way out, and find a cubby hole for a nap.

 

Oh, and yeah, I don't always agree with you, but that's what keeps it real, right? :(

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First of all, I don't care if someone makes remark about me spelling illegal wrong ("unlegal"), since I have seen worse english here.. written by those who have it as their first language :(

 

Then, what I meant was:

 

Every week can we read here on this forum about people who wants to BAN geocaching or parts of geocaching. It is like: "I would like geocaching.com to make it illegal to place caches near fountaines because I think it is unsuitable."

 

or

 

"I want to know is it the cache owners responsible to keep McToys out of the cache? Can't we get an automatic archive if there is McToys in the cache?"

 

or

 

"I hate my approver. I placed a new cache last week and it didn't get approved. So now I want to sue him, how do I do that?"

 

or

 

"Hi, I'm a new user and I'm wondering if it is okay to hide a cache near a graveyard." and it gets replies like: "NO! Geocaching has nothing to do with religion." or "Yes, that are cool places" or "I want Geocaching.com to make it illegal to place caches near those places because I'm allergic to tombstones."

 

When I called it "stupid" questions didn't I mean that the users were stupid. I meant that the questions and demands sometimes are so incredibly redicoulus (I don't know how to spell that word!).

 

I don't mind people requesting new things on Geocaching.com, not at all.

 

But why do some people strangle Geocaching as a fun sport? They want to ban everything that is funny. I don't want to make this to an anti-american thing, but sometimes do me and my fellow cachers laugh of some of the subjects here, because they are so incredible insane and redicoulus (I still don't know how to spell that word.)

 

I live in a free country where we are allowed to express our opinions, and that means that I'm use to hear different opinions. I like when people have different opinions, it is good for debates, and I LOVE debates. :D But I can't really understand why there is a bunch of people here that just want to strangle geocaching. They want to get all the fun out of geocaching.

 

Go ahead, find my misspellings.. :D

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or else make it illawful!

Yesterday I had to dodge horsey turds. Should we make it illawful to put a cache near a horsey trail?

Hedberg,

that was not an attempt to criticise you. In my house, growing up, it was something that my Dad said often. To use those two words, "unlegal" and "illegal", is a joke among my family. My apologies to all who did not grow up in our home and did not understand. :(

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Back on the original topic: I can see why people would suggest that there be bans on items, ways of hiding caches, etc. Sure, I get tired of getting to a cache only to find rubber bands, used hair clips, a screw, a small rock just like all the other nearby rocks, a wet log book and a pen out of ink. Makes me think I don't want all those things, so we should ban them! The problem is not with the people who want to ban things. There are few rules behind geocaching. So much of it is left open for personal expression and creativity. It allows for some very unique and challenging caches. I like that. The problem is with the cachers the complainers get tired of. These are the ones that leave the pocket lint, small rocks, and take great swag items. They are newbies who place a cache on their first day in the worst place possible without understanding how to hide or care for a cache. I'm not saying more experienced cachers are perfect either - I didn't place a cache for quite a while (about 6 months after starting) and it was muggled in 2 weeks. I am just now starting to place my second after almost a year and almost a 100 finds. The problem is with the people who don't understand the SPIRIT of geocaching. They don't "Trade even or trade up." They complain about people listing multi- or puzzle caches (another thread I read today). Tanis and I, our goal is to try to make geocaching the best sport I can. When we see a newbie who does something wrong or something that could be improved on, we let them know (although it has led us into some trouble with people taking comments the wrong way). One could even say that the people who "bring it down" are those who are only about the numbers, but I don't want to say that - it stereotypes too many people. Anyway, that's all I have to say, and sorry if my wandering writing drives you nuts...it's really late :(

~Jared

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But why do some people strangle Geocaching as a fun sport? They want to ban everything that is funny. I don't want to make this to an anti-american thing, but sometimes do me and my fellow cachers laugh of some of the subjects here, because they are so incredible insane and redicoulus (I still don't know how to spell that word.)

How you spell it is less important than that there are lots of cachers who are cheering your message! :(:D

 

And, yes, Americans can act very "spoiled."

Edited by Robespierre
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But why do some people strangle Geocaching as a fun sport? They want to ban everything that is funny. I don't want to make this to an anti-american thing, but sometimes do me and my fellow cachers laugh of some of the subjects here, because they are so incredible insane and redicoulus (I still don't know how to spell that word.)

How you spell it is less important than that lots of cachers who are cheering your message! :(:D

 

And, yes, Americans can act very "spoiled."

what the puppet said.

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I don't want to remember how I felt when I first started caching. I had just lost my father, my two dogs, my job, my favorite pickup, my best friend, I had such terrible back problems I could hardly walk, and my wife was being tested for possible cancer. So, instead of shutting the $%^& up, you just dredged up a lot of terrible memories for me. Thanks. Thanks a lot. :D

Sounds like the makings for a country and western song. :(

 

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

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Go ahead, find my misspellings..

Nah..too much work. :(

 

My apologies to all who did not grow up in our home and did not understand.

Ok, you're excused. :D

 

And, yes, Americans can act very "spoiled."

Unfortunately, its not only Americans. In these forums, where the population must be something like 90-95% Americans it just seems that the most controversial subjects are American per se, but that doesn't necessarily have to be so.

 

Sure, I know and remember some topics where the subject seemed to be that all of those from outside the US seemed to disagree with all of the Americans, but even at those cases the point wasn't the nationality of the writers. Firstly, there are only few writers from somewhere else than the US. Secondly, usually there are also Americans whose opinions don't match with their fellow country(wo)men on that certain topic. Thirdly, there are always the lurkers, who don't express their opinions publicly in the forums (or in a certain thread) for one reason or another, so no one can ever really know what people of different nationalities really think about the matter. It's not only one or two supporting emails that I have received from different people during some heated argumentation, and many of those emails wanted to remind me that 'please remember that not all of us living here think the same way'.

 

So, hedberg, you in no way don't need to feel turning this to an anti-American thing, because it isn't that. People express their opinions here as individuals, it's not the official opinion of their government.

 

Edit: grammar, typos and phrasing. :D

Edited by Divine
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"I hate my approver. I placed a new cache last week and it didn't get approved. So now I want to sue him, how do I do that?"

 

Oh please, Hedberg, may I *PLEASE* use that as my signature line? I laughed pretty hard over that post... :D:D:(

 

On the topic of spelling: a resource I find I use all the time is www.dictionary.com. My spelling can be "ridiculous" too, and yes, it is my native language! :D:(

Edited by New England n00b
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The more I think of it, the more I realize that a game that has no rules isn't really a game at all. Its just chaos. Same with any endeavor. When Art had rules and expectations of what would be considered art, we had the great masters and art flourished. Not by rules, but by teaching new people how to get from no background to functional.

 

Right now, we have geotrashes because noone has that little voice inside their head that tells them that the used hair clip is not an OK thing to leave. We have ridiculous mirocaches because the little voice that says "my town already has too many Wal-micros" doesn't speak. We get the little voice by learning something.

 

As I have mentioned previously, I think that we need to have our local groups take on a teaching or mentoring role for new cachers. So that the garbage in the cache decreases, etc. What we need from GC is a more clearly defined set of expectations. Take care of this, and the rules take care of themselves.

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Big Red -

 

Do you really believe that it is the new cachers that are creating "Wal-caches" with junk in them? That it is they who leave the 'used hair clip' in exeisting caches?

 

You could be right - but not from my own (noob) standards.

 

Of course I don't know what your standards for a 'Wal-cache' is. I get a lot of my stuff from the Dollar Store near me. It's all brand new - some toys - some adult. Some theme caches. If this is a "Wal-cache" tho you then I plead guilty - I just can't afford $4-5 dollar or greater items. And from the caches I have been to - there seem to be a lot who trade just do not follow the rules of trading up. If I don't have a like item I'll drop 2 lesser items in to make up for it.

 

I went to a cashe the other day that was close to me - read the log - 'left mini light stick' thought that was cool - got there - cache log says same - no mini light stick. In fact the cash was a real disaster. Did not have the goodies to rehab the cash at the time - know the girl who owns it (by e-mail) and let her know.

 

I sure see why some of the 'old timers' with the big numbers almost always 'TNLNSL' on most caches.

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Honestly, I don't see why comlaining about all the complaining is any more appealing than the original complaining was in the first place.

 

And while I'm not usually a big fan of rules, as bigredmed put it, without rules it isn't a game. For a game which consists primarily of slinking around, looking suspicious and secreting mystery packages on public land at a time when the public is one giant raw throbbing nerve ending, a few sensible restrictions is no bad idea. Once you've soured a town or a park system on the idea, you can wipe a lot of caching opportunities.

 

Anyhow, half the threads where someone is accused of calling for more unnecessary rules, he isn't really. He's just having a good, old-fashioned complain about something that got up his nose, without actually suggesting something be done about it.

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Big Red -

 

Do you really believe that it is the new cachers that are creating "Wal-caches" with junk in them? That it is they who leave the 'used hair clip' in exeisting caches?

 

You could be right - but not from my own (noob) standards.

 

Of course I don't know what your standards for a 'Wal-cache' is. I get a lot of my stuff from the Dollar Store near me. It's all brand new - some toys - some adult. Some theme caches. If this is a "Wal-cache" tho you then I plead guilty - I just can't afford $4-5 dollar or greater items. And from the caches I have been to - there seem to be a lot who trade just do not follow the rules of trading up. If I don't have a like item I'll drop 2 lesser items in to make up for it.

 

I went to a cashe the other day that was close to me - read the log - 'left mini light stick' thought that was cool - got there - cache log says same - no mini light stick. In fact the cash was a real disaster. Did not have the goodies to rehab the cash at the time - know the girl who owns it (by e-mail) and let her know.

 

I sure see why some of the 'old timers' with the big numbers almost always 'TNLNSL' on most caches.

Its not that the newbies are placing all the Walmicro's. Its that if we took a minute to teach new players how to play the game, we would teach people that a keyholder stuck to a ligh pole in the middle of a Walmart (ie a Walmicro) is not an original concept and probably should be skipped in the cache hiding effort.

 

Its not that new players are the only ones that trade down, its that by teaching people what we mean by trading even, we will get more TNLN's and fewer "Took the good stuff, left some garbage" logs.

 

The older players that engage in this type of sub-par play will either continue and face an increasingly isolated scene or will change when all the other players raise to levels that are above them. So, if we make an effort to teach new players, we will sooner or later find that the entire sport is better. :(

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...every week can I read on this forum new messages from people who wants to ban different things within Geocaching, or they wants to know who to sue if they get injured in a park, or if it should be legal to place McDonalds toys in the cache, or if caches shouldn't be allowed near graveyards, or if caches shouldn't be allowed to be made out of plastics... and so on...

Noticed that pretty soon. Just a simple example:

 

The name of the cache is "No Bitchin in the Kitchin" [...] I like the name i picked, but I realize parents may feel differently.

My dictionary says "lamenting", "complaining". So how could this possibly be a parents' issue???

 

Sure, I know and remember some topics where the subject seemed to be that all of those from outside the US seemed to disagree with all of the Americans, but even at those cases the point wasn't the nationality of the writers.

Well, let me thing of something, Divinie :(:D:D - By the way: still no comment from either ASOinFL or TPTB...

 

BS/2

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I think reading the forums gave me the best examples of etiquette on every aspect of hiding a cache, finding a cache, what not to put in, how to trade up or equal, etc. Sometimes I wonder why such rules of etiquette are not put in a more prominent place on the geocaching website or the Discuss Geocaching forum link is not bigger so more people might be inclined to visit that link and find out more information on what to do and not do. Currently there are 4 different pages pertaining to hiding a cache, finding a cache, the glossary of terms and the FAQ's. Personally, I think they need to all be put on the same page and updated with more emphasis on cache etiquette as well as other issues. There also needs to be more emphasis on getting people to visit the forums to ask questions or obtain information.

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For example: (bottom of the page) http://www.geocaching.com/about/finding.aspx

 

Step 4 – The Find

Huzzah! You found the cache! Congratulations! Now what?

 

Usually you take an item and leave an item, and enter your name and experience you had into the log book. Some people prefer to just enter their name into the log book. It’s an accomplishment enough to locate the cache.

Make sure to seal the cache and place it back where you found it. If it had some rocks covering it, please replace them. It’s pretty straightforward.

Remember that waypoint we suggested you create where your car/trail was located? Use that now to get back! You’ll be glad you had it.

When you get home, email the person who hid the cache and let them know you found it! They’re always happy to know the condition of their cache and it’s nice to know that people are looking for them.

Great work! After several trips to geocaches in your area, you’ll be ready to place your own. Welcome to the exciting world of Geocaching!

 

No emphasis on trading up, trading equal or not trading at all. Just take an item and leave an item. Now you can see where most of the cache trashing and inappropriate trading comes from.

 

No emphasis on not moving the cache no matter what, otherwise the coordinates will be off for the next person.

 

Instead of mentioning to a newbie about logging your find on the cache page, it says email the owner and let them know you found it. No mention of also logging if you didn't find it.

 

So this is where I think most newbies "don't get the whole story" on finding or hiding a cache unless they visit the forums. More detailed instructions would help in curbing alot of the problems in the future.

 

I won't even go into all the things not mentioned on the hiding a cache page....ugh.

http://www.geocaching.com/about/hiding.aspx

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For example: (bottom of the page) http://www.geocaching.com/about/finding.aspx

 

Step 4 – The Find

Huzzah! You found the cache! Congratulations! Now what?

 

Usually you take an item and leave an item, and enter your name and experience you had into the log book. Some people prefer to just enter their name into the log book. It’s an accomplishment enough to locate the cache.

Make sure to seal the cache and place it back where you found it. If it had some rocks covering it, please replace them. It’s pretty straightforward.

Remember that waypoint we suggested you create where your car/trail was located? Use that now to get back! You’ll be glad you had it.

When you get home, email the person who hid the cache and let them know you found it! They’re always happy to know the condition of their cache and it’s nice to know that people are looking for them.

Great work! After several trips to geocaches in your area, you’ll be ready to place your own. Welcome to the exciting world of Geocaching!

 

 

No emphasis on not moving the cache no matter what, otherwise the coordinates will be off for the next person.

 

Sure there is. Well, not emphatic emphasis, but it does say so (my emphasis in bold).

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Reading the forums has helped me so far in my short life of caching. I agree with bigredmed in that if we teach the new people what you all feel is the proper way to play the game, eventually they will advance through he ranks and make this a better game. Not that it is a bad situation now. It will get better. :blink:

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It seems like people want to ban EVERYTHING and make all the fun unlegal!

 

I know this was more directed toward caching, but I think that this is a great comment...it indicates the situation the whole world is in.

 

Everyone is so worried about the other guy and having things done the way they want it done....

 

Why cant we all just sit back and let folks do whatever as long as it isnt causing us direct harm and roll with the changes??

 

I used to ride my ATV every weekend...that was my hobby....until people started complaining and landowners started posting signs etc....Idiots who got hurt on them sued and now everyone is running scared....Now, in order to ride legally in my state, you have to register the ATV and ride only on state approved trails....those are 3 hours away from me.

 

So, my hobby sits in the shed.

 

If people would just mind their business and do what is right we would ALL be better off.....There's an old saying that goes like "Be careful what you demand to have regualted...the next thing regulated might be something YOU enjoy"...Ok, not an old saying, just made it up... :blink:

 

But an old saying (that is really an old saying) fits well....."I am not my brothers keeper." That, I think says it all.

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But an old saying (that is really an old saying) fits well....."I am not my brothers keeper."  That, I think says it all.

If you go back to the source text, you will discover that the question was "Am I my brother's keeper?" and the lesson to be learned was, yes, indeed, we ARE expected to be our "brothers' keepers."

Edited by BassoonPilot
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I used to ride my ATV every weekend...that was my hobby....until people started complaining and landowners started posting signs etc.

 

So your hobby was tresspassing and you're annoyed that the landowners put a stop to it?

 

And people wonder why rules are needed. :rolleyes:

Edited by briansnat
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I used to ride my ATV every weekend...that was my hobby....until people started complaining and landowners started posting signs etc.

 

So your hobby was trespassing and you're annoyed that the landowners put a stop to it?

 

And people wonder why rules are needed.

Excellent insight, as usual, BS!! :rolleyes:

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Some people are not happy unless they have something to complain about or a soapbox to stand on or are stirring up trouble and controversy . . .

 

Whatever . . . ignore them, that's what I do.

 

Live and let live . . .

 

Anyhoo . . . happy caching and stuff! Afterall, that what it's about right? Oh! That and the numbers . . . it's all about the numbers. :rolleyes:

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