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"approvers" And Their Egos.

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One thing that I have not yet read in the forums anywhere is a comment on the idea of approvers taking regional facts into consideration when approving or not approving cache listings.

 

Note: I am not wading into this particular cache specifically, but making a point about distinct differences in various parts of the world.

 

Given the following...

 

Yukon Territory - Canada

 

186,660 Square Miles

650 Miles tall by 580 Miles wide.

 

Approx population when I was living there = 30,000 people.

 

Folks in this part of the world will drive further for breakfast than would constitute a major road trip in England. Some of us Canadians see mileage in a different light

than perhaps some folks in other parts of the world.

 

There are plenty of places in Canada where there is no-one living within 150 miles.

 

I just thought I'd point out this regional difference in the event that GC.com approvers would like to keep this in mind re: all wilderness Canadian caches.

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I have to say that I feel sorry for you Team MJDJ . It is obvious that you are isolated and do not have the assistance of local cachers like we do here. Our group supports one another in hiding and seeking caches and even suggest sites for one another if they are outside our area.

 

Found BBQ (GCK2R6)

 

I had a cache held up for a few weeks pending approval. I my attitude was "Hmmm... what can I do to help the local approver and make his/her life easier?" I cannot imagine how they have time to cache while facing a huge list of caches that are waiting to go online. :(

 

I have to brag that we have the greatest group of people here that go out of their way to work together and make caching an enjoyable experience that I am proud to call my 'addiction of choice'.

 

TrimblesTrek & Purple Fever have said it better than I can and Coupar Angus...your silence speak volumes!

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One thing that I have not yet read in the forums anywhere is a comment on the idea of approvers taking regional facts into consideration when approving or not approving cache listings.

 

Note: I am not wading into this particular cache specifically, but making a point about distinct differences in various parts of the world.

 

Given the following...

 

Yukon Territory - Canada

 

186,660 Square Miles

650 Miles tall by 580 Miles wide.

 

Approx population when I was living there = 30,000 people.

 

Folks in this part of the world will drive further for breakfast than would constitute a major road trip in England. Some of us Canadians see mileage in a different light

than perhaps some folks in other parts of the world.

 

There are plenty of places in Canada where there is no-one living within 150 miles.

 

I just thought I'd point out this regional difference in the event that GC.com approvers would like to keep this in mind re: all wilderness Canadian caches.

You make a pretty good point on the distance and population stats, Dino. Let me ask you this: if you had the same situation as Team MJDJ, would you have gone off on the approver and used the belittling terms he did, or would you have politely provided the reasoning you just used in this post? I'm hoping you would do that latter, and I'm betting the cache would have been approved. Honey and vinegar. :(

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Since the topic starter cannot post any longer, perhaps this thread should be closed. People who wish to continue the discussion have been invited to the cacher's sandbox.

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Since the topic starter cannot post any longer, perhaps this thread should be closed. People who wish to continue the discussion have been invited to the cacher's sandbox.

If the topic starter wishes to post, then he may, his post will be reviewed before hand. If the topic start would like the thread closed, all he has to do is contact me, I am attempting to keep the moderating to a minimal.

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If the topic starter wishes to post, then he may, his post will be reviewed before hand. If the topic start would like the thread closed, all he has to do is contact me, I am attempting to keep the moderating to a minimal.

Gotcha :( I initially heard that it was a 'ban' not a 'moderation'.

 

Carry on...

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Let me ask you this:  if you had the same situation as Team MJDJ, would you have gone off on the approver and used the belittling terms he did, or would you have politely provided the reasoning you just used in this post?  I'm hoping you would do that latter, and I'm betting the cache would have been approved.  Honey and vinegar. :(

That may be true, but if so it is wrong. A cache should be approved on it's merits, not based on the personal feelings or interactions an approver has with the cache owner. GC rules dictate that users must respect all GC staff, but it appears that, in some cases, that respect is not reciprocated and the result is what we've seen here. In this case the approver did not approve the cache because of his experiences with other cache owners, not the cache owner he was dealing with.

 

I don't necessarily think that MJDJ handled this situation as well as he could have, but I can certainly sympathize with his frustration at dealing with a remote approver who knows nothing of the cache owner and the area the cache is hidden in who makes an arbitrary decision based on his experiences with other cachers in different parts of the continent. Yes, there is an appeal process and part of it is to bring the subject to the forums. However, history has shown that when a cache owner appeals, all other approvers circle their wagons around the approver in question and support his decision, right or wrong. No wonder people get so frustrated that they act out those frustrations in less than ideal ways. It also doesn’t help the situation much to have a mob of GC uber-fans from other regions dropping by to further exacerbate the problem by telling the cache owner what a loser he is and that he should quit caching. Even if they have that right, it isn’t showing much of that GC-required respect that we keep hearing about. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

At the end of the day, the big losers are the local cachers who won’t have MJDJ’s wilderness caches to hunt and the long-term implications that the placement of future wilderness caches is in jeopardy due to some arbitrary 150-mile “rule” that simply does not make sense in certain parts of the world. :D

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Thank you Peetz, you certainly raise some relevant points, unlike the diverters in this thread!

As I told the "approver", I have FOUR caches....two of which are distant ones, and ALL of which are "wilderness" types. I certainly don't have 300 caches, all within city limits!

 

Dino Hunters also makes a point regarding the "vastness" of this Country and certainly of this Province. Does the "approver" have any idea of the geography he has been assigned to?

I think nothing of driving over 100 miles in a day to get to an attraction, whether it is a Provinical Park or otherwise. I also explained to the "approver" that this cache is only 4 hours away, peanuts really...but rather than take my geography AND my owned caches into account, I am assumed to be a liar.

 

That IS the issue here, BTW...the disrespect that was shown without precedent. What the majority of you fail to realize is that by the time I made this thread, I had been dealing for almost a week with an immoveable, stubborn approver who refused to listen to any explanations I had, preferring instead to split hairs on a rule that shouldn't be applied to an area as vast as this.

Local Caches should be reviewed and approved by LOCAL cachers, not someone living 1000 miles away.

 

As for the rest of the contributors...I certainly hope that none of you ever get "upset", be it at home, at work or on the road, lest you lecture me when I feel that I have been UNJUSTLY SLANDERED!

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Why not just move the cach a little ways, take new coordinates, submit it again and explain your intentions a little better?

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Why not just move the cach a little ways, take new coordinates, submit it again and explain your intentions a little better?

Thanks for the suggestion Larry, but this cache is already placed on an Island. The rest of the Lake area is either privately owned property or hellish forest that is almost impenetrable!

We placed this cache as a tribute to an area that we have been visiting for the past ten years, this year was the TENTH anniversary of our first visit...the Island has sentimental value, hence the reason we chose it as the hiding spot.

 

The entire point is moot now anyways...after the way I've been treated, even if the decision is reversed, I won't list it here.

It is listed elsewhere.

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Why not just move the cach a little ways, take new coordinates, submit it again and explain your intentions a little better?

If he were to move the cache a few hundred meters and resubmit it, it would still not be approved as doing so would demonstrate that the approver was wrong to disallow the initial cache. That is not going to happen. TPTB have suggested to the cache owner that he should quit caching, so it is unlikely that any of his future wilderness caches will ever be approved unless he hides them under another account name.

 

In a country with a wilderness as vast as Canada's, it's a shame that a made-in-the-USA rule that precludes cache placements more than 150 miles from the cache owner will prevent caches ever being placed in much of that publicly accessible wildnerness. :blink:

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To those of you that are making derogatory comments about a certain cacher who does NOT live in Canada, I think you all can quit "slandering" the geocacher with over 300 hides.

 

I am the one who reviews his caches. All of his caches I have reviewed are all legal and definitely adhere to the guidelines. He has had a problem some time ago with one of the local parks, but he and the local geocachers worked out the issues with that parks department and they still allow caches there. The local geocachers like him and his hides, and if they didn't I'm sure there would be people starting topics about it in these GC.com forums or within their local forums. He actually does a good job of maintaining his caches. Not all of these 300+ are active, and that is the key. After time when wear and tear begins to show in the environment, he archives the cache and then moves it 400 - 500 feet to a new area and will re-list it. He has had a bumpy road along the way but he is well respected within his geocaching community. If they don't have a problem with his caches, what business is it of yours? You can't even control things in your own area so stay out of someone else's!

 

If you go find one of his caches and don't like it, feel free to post a "should be archived" note. Otherwise, don't talk about things you know nothing about or about other cachers that you know nothing about. You people that are talking about him should be embarrassed and ashamed of yourself. They are a very happy and organized and cohesive group. They work together and HAVE FUN. You people would do well to study them and learn a thing or two. I am proud to serve them and work for them even though I live 1000 miles away. I actually feel I owe them a debt of gratitude because of what they do for geocaching.

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You can't even control things in your own area so stay out of someone else's!

 

Everyone is welcome here in this forum no matter where they are from.

 

:blink:

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Mtn-man:

"You can't even control things in your own area so stay out of someone else's!"

<Removed by moderator, don't make it personal>

Perhaps you could point this out to others who have jumped onto this thread to lambaste me without knowing the details...

 

Nobody is referring to you specifically Mtn-man...and I don't know the fellow who has 300+ caches, although I'm sure he is a fine individual.

 

The point remains that I was disrespected and slandered without precedent by an "approver" who was quoting Chapter and Verse of the rules, with no concern or consideration of the variables that are present. I have yet to see a rule that didn't have an exception.

 

Gorak:

"In a country with a wilderness as vast as Canada's, it's a shame that a made-in-the-USA rule that precludes cache placements more than 150 miles from the cache owner will prevent caches ever being placed in much of that publicly accessible wildnerness."

 

Precisely...which is why I remain; no rule should be an absolute, nor applied absolutely when the "approver" has no reason to suspect that a cacher is irresponsible or a "liar".

Edited by Team MJDJ

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Gorak, you are free to go to that forum and complain about that person's CACHES if you have found them and have a problem with them. When someone is complaining about a general topic such as the volunteers for the site, then that concerns everybody. If I have done something wrong in that area, feel free to go to that local forum and complain.

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You can't even control things in your own area so stay out of someone else's!

 

Everyone is welcome here in this forum no matter where they are from.

 

:blink:

I think what mtn-man is trying to say is to solve the problems in your own caching area and not point to other cachers far away. Happens to be one of the initial complaints here about the cache reviewer, then turn around, do the same thing and slander another fellow cacher.

 

If I know the cacher in question refered to above, please email or PM your concerns privately as it is not part of this thread, not all 300 are active, he travels for his work and has found caches in all of the areas he has hidden caches.

 

Please keep this thread on track and the personal attacks out.

Edited by cache-tech

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Gorak, you are free to go to that forum and complain about that person's CACHES if you have found them and have a problem with them.  When someone is complaining about a general topic such as the volunteers for the site, then that concerns everybody.  If I have done something wrong in that area, feel free to go to that local forum and complain.

You must have me confused with someone else. I don't recall ever making a comment, positive or negative, regarding the cacher that you are referring to. I believe only one poster in this thread referred to the cacher you speak of and, as best I can see, nobody responded to him or elaborated on his point.

 

Feel free to blame me for it, though. :blink:

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Gorak, you are free to go to that forum and complain about that person's CACHES if you have found them and have a problem with them.  When someone is complaining about a general topic such as the volunteers for the site, then that concerns everybody.  If I have done something wrong in that area, feel free to go to that local forum and complain.

You must have me confused with someone else. I don't recall ever making a comment, positive or negative, regarding the cacher that you are referring to. I believe only one poster in this thread referred to the cacher you speak of and, as best I can see, nobody responded to him or elaborated on his point.

 

Feel free to blame me for it, though. :blink:

Sorry, it was more said in general terms. If the shoe fits...

 

I don't even know why I bothered. Feel free to go back to your... discussion. ranting.gif

blowup.gif

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by Cache-Tech:

"I think what mtn-man is trying to say is to solve the problems in your own caching area and not point to other cachers far away. Happens to be one of the initial complaints here about the cache reviewer, then turn around, do the same thing and slander another fellow cacher."

 

Yet I am pack-attacked in this thread, by cachers who aren't even from this Country...I sure hope they received as stern of a reprimand...possibly even "Moderation" notices for their efforts!

Nothing more aggravating than seeing "rules" being applied unevenly...

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Why not just move the cach a little ways, take new coordinates, submit it again and explain your intentions a little better?

Thanks for the suggestion Larry, but this cache is already placed on an Island. The rest of the Lake area is either privately owned property or hellish forest that is almost impenetrable!

We placed this cache as a tribute to an area that we have been visiting for the past ten years, this year was the TENTH anniversary of our first visit...the Island has sentimental value, hence the reason we chose it as the hiding spot.

 

The entire point is moot now anyways...after the way I've been treated, even if the decision is reversed, I won't list it here.

It is listed elsewhere.

An island Eh? Well sounds like fun to me!

I for one hope this gets approved, this is right up our alley..

 

You say it is listed elsewhere? I would be interested in knowing where, I am not big on forums for this reason, but I am big on an island related hunt..

 

I am not familiar with what is going on here but if all this is being left in the hands of one person that is far from being a "moderating team" it is a dictatorship. No decision that affects many should be made by an individual.

It's only my opinion..

Pyd!

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Sorry, it was more said in general terms.  If the shoe fits...

My most humble apologies. Since you preceded your post and suggestion with my name, I made the illogical and erroneous assumption that you were actually referring to me. I apologize for my lapse and jumping to that conclusion and, in the future, if you address me specifically I will realize that you are speaking in general terms and not about me specifically. Thank you for straightening out that misunderstanding and allowing us to go back to our...discussion.

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Mtn-man:

"You can't even control things in your own area so stay out of someone else's!"

<Removed by moderator, don't make it personal>

Perhaps you could point this out to others who have jumped onto this thread to lambaste me without knowing the details...

It's a public thread on a public forum, if you didn't want public replies you've come to the wrong place. As for details the only details they have are the ones you've shared, if you aren't happy with the details they have that's nobody's fault but your own.

 

I'm sorry your cache didn't get approved and I agree that the decission wasn't completely fair.

 

However posting in a public place and then complaining about what comes of the topic you started and gave direction to (as the OP) is ridiculous. Always remember to "do unto others" etc..... If you're gonna come gripe and bash then be prepared to get gripes and be bashed. It does suck but that's how the world works. I understand you don't like people gripping about you or to you or bashing you but you shouldn't be surprised. You set the tune and direction of the discussion so now (unfortunately) you have to live with what you started.

 

Thorin

Edited by thorin

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Mtn-man:

"You can't even control things in your own area so stay out of someone else's!"

<Removed by moderator, don't make it personal>

Perhaps you could point this out to others who have jumped onto this thread to lambaste me without knowing the details...

It's a public thread on a public forum, if you didn't want public replies you've come to the wrong place. As for details the only details they have are the ones you've shared, if you aren't happy with the details they have that's nobody's fault but your own.

 

I'm sorry your cache didn't get approved and I agree that the decission wasn't completely fair.

 

However posting in a public place and then complaining about what comes of the topic you started and gave direction to (as the OP) is ridiculous. Always remember to "do unto others" etc..... If you're gonna come gripe and bash then be prepared to get gripes and be bashed. It does suck but that's how the world works. I understand you don't like people gripping about you or to you or bashing you but you shouldn't be surprised. You set the tune and direction of the discussion so now (unfortunately) you have to live with what you started.

 

Thorin

The example I was making, was that others are telling us to basically "mind our own business" with caches out of our area, and yet they are pack-attacking me for speaking MY mind, about MY cache in MY area...see the difference?

 

I don't mind getting "bashed" by the lunatic fringe; it's what they do best and they are simply reacting to an event...just like ants scurrying to protect the eggs when you accidentally disturb the hill...

But then to have them turn around and tell us to mind our P's and Q's just reeks of hypocrisy!

 

Tell you what...I won't insult any caches (not that I did that!) that aren't within 500 miles of me and the rest of them do the same...we'll all get along just fine!

I can do that, I doubt that many of them can...

 

In the meantime...I can't help but noticed that NONE of them have addressed the actual TOPIC - being unjustly discriminated against by an "Approver" without reason.

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by Pyd:

"An island Eh? Well sounds like fun to me! I for one hope this gets approved, this is right up our alley...You say it is listed elsewhere? I would be interested in knowing where, I am not big on forums for this reason, but I am big on an island related hunt.."

I don't know what area you're in, but it is listed at Navicache as "Heffley Lake Cache"...just Northeast of Kamloops, BC.

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by Pyd:

"An island Eh? Well sounds like fun to me! I for one hope this gets approved, this is right up our alley...You say it is listed elsewhere? I would be interested in knowing where, I am not big on forums for this reason, but I am big on an island related hunt.."

I don't know what area you're in, but it is listed at Navicache as "Heffley Lake Cache"...just Northeast of Kamloops, BC.

A little far for me, I am in Ontario.. Thats unfortunate, it has appeal.

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In the meantime...I can't help but noticed that NONE of them have addressed the actual TOPIC - being unjustly discriminated against by an "Approver" without reason.

It's been addressed. The consensus appears to be that there was no unjust discrimination against you by the approver. From what you've posted, the approver followed the guidelines, and you unjustly started spouting slanderous insults at the approver. I still see absolutely nothing in what you have posted that could be even slightly construed as being called a liar, being slandered, or being discriminated against. Nor have I seen any hypocrasy by the moderators. You're obviously missing (or more likely intentionally ignoring) their point in the discussions concerning other cachers.

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Sorry, it was more said in general terms.  If the shoe fits...

My most humble apologies. Since you preceded your post and suggestion with my name, I made the illogical and erroneous assumption that you were actually referring to me. I apologize for my lapse and jumping to that conclusion and, in the future, if you address me specifically I will realize that you are speaking in general terms and not about me specifically. Thank you for straightening out that misunderstanding and allowing us to go back to our...discussion.

I guess I forget that some of the cachers up there revel in twisting what people say.

I do think it is comical how people geocide but never leave.

 

Adios! yawn.gif

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...and Sparky seems to be ignoring the facts as they are presented.

How's the view from where you are?

 

For those who AREN'T blind, the question was raised as to why I, as a cacher, was being discriminated against because of the actions of some other cachers with whom the "approver" had issues?

I had plainly explained and demonstrated that I was willing and able to maintain this cache...he saw things differently and refused to approve it, without reason.

 

by Thorin:

I'm sorry your cache didn't get approved and I agree that the decission wasn't completely fair.

So you see Sparkle, this isn't as black and white as you would to believe! I realize that my misfortunes bring some sort of glee for you...but that says more about YOU than it does about me.

 

Now, someone suggested that those outside of the cache area shouldn't participate in discussions of caches in that particular area...I tend to agree. So even though this IS a public forum, this topic plainly has nothing to do with you, and given your ability to see only one side of the story, I think it's best if you didn't participate in a discussion that is CLEARLY beyond your scope of knowledge. Surely there must be something interesting happening somewhere in Kansas that would warrant your attention...

Thanks!

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Sorry, it was more said in general terms.  If the shoe fits...

My most humble apologies. Since you preceded your post and suggestion with my name, I made the illogical and erroneous assumption that you were actually referring to me. I apologize for my lapse and jumping to that conclusion and, in the future, if you address me specifically I will realize that you are speaking in general terms and not about me specifically. Thank you for straightening out that misunderstanding and allowing us to go back to our...discussion.

I guess I forget that some of the cachers up there revel in twisting what people say.

I do think it is comical how people geocide but never leave.

 

Adios! yawn.gif

As I see it, you DID address Gorak specifically...there is no "twisting" involved here:

 

Mtn-man:

"Gorak, you are free to go to that forum and complain about that person's CACHES if you have found them and have a problem with them. When someone is complaining about a general topic such as the volunteers for the site, then that concerns everybody. If I have done something wrong in that area, feel free to go to that local forum and complain."

 

Are you going to apologize for being wrong?

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Sorry, it was more said in general terms.  If the shoe fits...

My most humble apologies. Since you preceded your post and suggestion with my name, I made the illogical and erroneous assumption that you were actually referring to me. I apologize for my lapse and jumping to that conclusion and, in the future, if you address me specifically I will realize that you are speaking in general terms and not about me specifically. Thank you for straightening out that misunderstanding and allowing us to go back to our...discussion.

I guess I forget that some of the cachers up there revel in twisting what people say.

I do think it is comical how people geocide but never leave.

 

Adios! yawn.gif

I'm going to guess that, although you are quoting me in your response, you response is generic in nature and not referring to me specifically since I have never, to the best of my knowledge, committed a geocide or forumcide.

 

I am curious, however, as to whom you might be referring to in regards to "twisting what people say" and what you think may have been "twisted".

 

I would respectfully suggest that if you are going to speak in general terms, quoting a specific individual implies that you are commenting on that individual or something that they wrote and can cause confusion as to your intent. For instance, by quoting me prior to stating that "some of the cachers up there revel in twisting what people say" I get the impression that you are accusing me of twisting something that you have said. However, by adding a comment about geocides, which I have never committed, I get the impression that you are either speaking generically or about someone else. So I don't know what to think. :blink:

 

Isn't that confusing? :blink:

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Man what a sad day it is in the Canadian Forum. It really makes me sad to see this thread become so gutterlike.

 

I read nowhere where the approver was disrepectful, called you a liar and so forth. If he did indeed write this, then show us, but somehow I doubt he did.

 

Furthermore, I may be the person that is being spoken about that has over 300 caches. I think I have around 320 now. I do have a few that need maintenance, but I am out there each week checking a few here and there and over the course of 6 months I check them all. Personally I drive over 7000km a month for my work and it takes me to all points in this province.

 

Personally I think this thread should be shut down immediately. this is not the way Geocaching should be. It's a game people, have we all forgotten that???????????

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Man what a sad day it is in the Canadian Forum. It really makes me sad to see this thread become so gutterlike.

It is a sad day. As I said, it is funny that the people who geocide don't go away.

 

Speaking of which, I got PM'd in the forums by BannedUser5. Seems like he wants me to go away from this topic. Sounds like a good reason to hang around to me. I guess I've changed my mind.

 

Team MJDJ, apologize for being wrong? Oh, but remember:

 

Rule 1: Approvers are always right.

Rule 2: If an approver is wrong, refer to Rule #1.

 

I mean, Gorak said it so it must be gospel.

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Man what a sad day it is in the Canadian Forum. It really makes me sad to see this thread become so gutterlike.

 

I read nowhere where the approver was disrepectful, called you a liar and so forth. If he did indeed write this, then show us, but somehow I doubt he did.

 

My point exactly. I still don't see the alleged slanderous name-calling you keep referring to. You still don't see the point about cachers elsewhere responding to this thread. I don't think I could make it simple enough for you. You posted something in a public forum about how you are imagining the approver calling you a liar and slandering you and discriminating against you. Other cachers, members of this community that have respect for the site and for the approvers, responded to your post with a consensus that nothing, anywhere, in what you have posted shows anything even remotely close to being discriminatory, slanderous, or calling you a liar as you claim.

 

Let's see if I can make this question simple enough for you to comprehend (understand): What do you want from this thread? What is your purpose in posting it? Was there something you want to achieve, aside from bashing the approver and other community members, and making yourself look like yet another disrespectful cacher on a temper tantrum? Tell us exactly what you had hoped to accomplish by posting this thread.

 

So even though this IS a public forum, this topic plainly has nothing to do with you, and given your ability to see only one side of the story, I think it's best if you didn't participate in a discussion that is CLEARLY beyond your scope of knowledge.

 

No, as I have proven in post after post, I have a firm grasp of the situation here. I see things more clearly each time you hit the "submit" button. The only side of the story I have to work with is what you have provided. Are you saying there is another side to the story? Hmmm......seems that's always the case in this type of thread. Look around, there's a recurring pattern in nearly every "My cache wasn't approved, the approver is being mean to me" thread, and you're following the pattern pretty well.

 

I realize that my misfortunes bring some sort of glee for you...but that says more about YOU than it does about me.

 

More than you know, this statement truly says a LOT more about you than it does me, however, it is off topic. As were a lot of the past several posts you have made. Can you stick to your own topic and make a point? Answer the questions, son, it's not that hard. Well? Let's hear the answers to those ON TOPIC questions I just asked.

Edited by Sparky-Watts

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Despite some of your antics, I'm totally on your side on this one.

 

I don't think geographic separation is a valid reason to totally deny a cache.

 

Point one, one in Manhattan Park. Absolutely should be denied based on the possibility that a non-geocacher may find it.

 

Point two, somewhere near my hunting grounds in Central Ontario (an eight hour drive away from my house). Checked personally once a year, this cache would only be found by someone looking for it. The spectacular view on one bluff is something everyone should cherish and just because I don't live in the area doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to be the one to bring it to everyone else's attention.

 

My $ 0.02.

 

All this being said, I would have phrased my thread entirely different if I was you.

 

Mike

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Point one, one in Manhattan Park. Absolutely should be denied based on the possibility that a non-geocacher may find it.

 

I don't think that is a good reason for being denied! That would eliminate thousands of urban caches!

 

Hey, J5, I don't wanna come play with the "big boys". Keep your PM's to yourself, or I shall taunt you a second time! :blink:

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"Team" MJDJ:

 

Slander - Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.

 

Libel - A false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures, that damages a person's reputation. The act of presenting such material to the public.

 

So first of all, "Team" MJDJ, you were NOT slandered. Even if it was libelous, YOU PRESENTED THE MATERIAL TO THE PUBLIC, not the author. Therefore you cannot claim that, even. The original communique was to you directly, via the cache page which no one else could see until you posted screen captures. In fact, I saw nothing there that said the approver called you a liar.

 

Therefore, YOU are commiting the libel. I'm gonna guess that the approver is a better person than you and let it go, rather than drag your reputation through the mud.

 

You obviously don't need any help, as you are doing that just fine on your own.

 

And you can tell me to F* off in your own private little corner of the web. GC.com has made this place publicly accessible to all nationalites. Deal. With. It.

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I admitt that I have not read this entire thead, and I don't really give a rip who is right or wrong, because it's gone beyond that, but reading unjustifiably, arrogant, pompous, condescending post's, like a previous one from Mr. Watts only confirms my decision not to renew my GC membership. . . . but why should you care? :blink:

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oooh, oooh! can i play? i'm not a canadian, but i play one on TV.

 

i got a snippy rejection from an approver once. i figured it wasn't his best day or his best response and continued to be polite. i will not tell you who it was because it turned out not to be a trend and it doesn't matter.

 

i have a couple not necessarily related thoughts:

 

if the cache is on an island but the rest of the surrounding land is on private property, what are the chances the island is also private property?

 

it probably should matter that 150 miles just isn't that far in really depopulated areas.

 

good for you if you list your cache elsewhere. it probably contributes to the overall health of the sport.

 

what's the sandbox?

 

it is probably inappropriate to use name calling and bad language in any venue, regardless of your respect for the locals. ...unless of course, your regular mode is name calling and bad language, in which case you are simply being even-handed.

 

people tend to be how you expect them to be. if you think people are eager to control , you will probably find them that way. if you expect them to be fair, you will probably find them to be that way.

 

nobody cares if you take your ball and go home. nobody cares if i take my ball and go home.

 

those are my thoughts. it's not a terribly cohesive package, but there it is.

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I admitt that I have not read this entire thead, and I don't really give a rip who is right or wrong, because it's gone beyond that, but reading unjustifiably, arrogant, pompous, condescending post's, like a previous one from Mr. Watts only confirms my decision not to renew my GC membership. . . . but why should you care? :blink:

Spoken like a true member of the "Sandbox".

 

Oh, and that's "Sparky" Watts to you. Only my friends call me "Mr."

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Inspector Gadget:

"Furthermore, I may be the person that is being spoken about that has over 300 caches. I think I have around 320 now. I do have a few that need maintenance, but I am out there each week checking a few here and there and over the course of 6 months I check them all. Personally I drive over 7000km a month for my work and it takes me to all points in this province."

 

Again...I don't know where you got the impression that people were insulting you. I can't see it anywhere in this thread.

 

You claim to travel a lot and you are taken at face value...this is a good thing!

However, it seems as though this "respect" is only given to a few as I also told the "approver" that we travelled a lot (friends, family and YES...vacations!) but I was told that my word wasn't good enough...I was told that some people "lie to approvers". Now, since the cache was NOT approved, this can only imply that he thought I was lying, or that there was something in my history as a Geocacher that meant I was NOT to be trusted...there isn't!

I gave ample explanations...we have family, friends, and we travel alot. This sort of explanation would satisfy the guy at the Customs Office, but for some reason, it is not good enough for this "approver".

I don't know about things in New Brunswick, I'm sure it's a perfectly wonderful place to live.

According to THIS site:

http://www.bathurst.ca/findus2.html

It would take 6 hours to drive from the southernmost point in NB to to the North and 4 hours from east to west.

Here in BC, aside from Vancouver, the next "metropolis" is Kelowna (395 kilometers (245 miles)), and the next Prince George (778km (483 miles) from Vancouver, 685km (425 miles) from Kelowna).

As you can see, here in BC we have a much LARGER land mass, and therefore more area to hide caches.

Whereon some are satisfied in planting cache after cache after cache in City parks and such, this doesn't appeal to me. As I see it, geocaching should be a wilderness experience that takes you places you won't likely see in a regular day. If this means driving a few miles, then so be it. That's the way we are in BC, even with our gasoline hovering at almost $4/gal. ($0.95/liter) we don't mind taking a bit of a drive to go somewhere interesting. This is also why you will find many kayaking, hiking and mountain climbing caches in BC. Because we have a VAST and VARIED terrain that cries out for hiding caches!

Nobody has forgotten that this is a "game"...I am reminded of that DAILY by the antics of some. So, if it IS a game, why the all the powerplays and rigid rules that CANNOT be applied to every situation?

 

Mtn-man:

"It is a sad day. As I said, it is funny that the people who geocide don't go away."

Maybe you could give us a demonstration on how to PROPERLY carry out this procedure? Since it seems to concern you so much.

Remember, this IS a Public Forum...open to everybody, from everywhere...you're not being very respectful!

 

As for Sparky and Noob, your contributions don't warrant a response, since you seem to go crying to the moderator every time I do.

Your attitudes are typical...sticking your noses where it doesn't belong and then crying like little girls when someone THWACKS you!

That's all I need to say.

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oooh, oooh! can i play? i'm not a canadian, but i play one on TV.

 

i got a snippy rejection from an approver once. i figured it wasn't his best day or his best response and continued to be polite. i will not tell you who it was because it turned out not to be a trend and it doesn't matter.

 

i have a couple not necessarily related thoughts:

 

if the cache is on an island but the rest of the surrounding land is on private property, what are the chances the island is also private property?

 

it probably should matter that 150 miles just isn't that far in really depopulated areas.

 

good for you if you list your cache elsewhere. it probably contributes to the overall health of the sport.

 

what's the sandbox?

 

it is probably inappropriate to use name calling and bad language in any venue, regardless of your respect for the locals. ...unless of course, your regular mode is name calling and bad language, in which case you are simply being even-handed.

 

people tend to be how you expect them to be. if you think people are eager to control , you will probably find them that way. if you expect them to be fair, you will probably find them to be that way.

 

nobody cares if you take your ball and go home. nobody cares if i take my ball and go home.

 

those are my thoughts. it's not a terribly cohesive package, but there it is.

Thanks for the feedback that was presented in a neutral tone, despite the artillery bursting all around you...

This isn't my first rejection either. The FIRST one was a real piece of work, and rejected for the most asinine of reasons...so confident was he in his convictions, that he then approved it less than ten minutes later...if that isn't Olympic quality fence-sitting, I don't know what is! I still say that LOCAL Approvers should review LOCAL caches...period!

The Island is crown land, only the North side of the Lake is Private properties.

The "sandbox" is another forum where the mods are a bit more "relaxed", only profanities get editted, not opinions. Check Gorak's signature line for the URL.

As for my language, you are walking into the middle of the fray...you cannot possibly know the history that "Sparky" has with some of the other cachers. Go to the sandbox and look up some of his posts...you'll see what I mean; and you're right about treating people as they treat you, but you'll see what I mean if you look up his old posts!

 

Nobody cares if I take my ball and go home?

Apparently Sparky from Kansas does, or he wouldn't make SUCH an issue of it...in the CANADIAN forums...

 

Yeah, I don't understand it either...actually I do, but it makes no sense!

Cheers!

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...

 

if the cache is on an island but the rest of the surrounding land is on private property, what are the chances the island is also private property?

 

....

 

what's the sandbox?

 

I omitted several of your originally posted points because I either agreed with them or didn't really care enough about them to comment.

 

I've left the first comment because it illustrates a point brought up earlier. Approvers should not be approving in areas they are unfamiliar with. This whole mess could have been avoided if either the approver or the cache submitter asked for the cache to be put on hold until the local reviewer had the chance to look at it.

 

You're probably not following my logic here but your statement about island ownership got me to thinking. I never would have imagined that an tiny island in a tiny lake in the interior of BC would be owned by anyone other then the Crown. Because that's just the way things work uo here.

 

Second, the "sandbox" is a local geocaching discussion forum in British Columbia. A lot of the local cachers who don't want to discuss this (or any other) issue here tend to congregate over there, The sandbox is an invaluable caching resource for a lot of us.

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Mtn-man:

"It is a sad day. As I said, it is funny that the people who geocide don't go away."

Maybe you could give us a demonstration on how to PROPERLY carry out this procedure? Since it seems to concern you so much.

I LOVE GC.com. I'm not going anywhere.

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Everyone is welcome in this public forum. Thread is being locked due to continued Personal Attacks.

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