Subjective Cache Contents

July 16, 2004

hi,

recently, some GCers visiting my home area have looked up and also placed new caches. the content placed are very often of a religious nature: booklets, CDs, etc.

obviously not being a religious man, I feel a bit offended by this and quite frankly I want this content removed from my own caches. partly because I feel that these are subjective but also because I think noone will ever pick up these items so that they'll fill the container forever.

I'm not sure what to compare with, but to me it's like unwanted flyers in the mailbox. I mean, what's next? the labour party programme?

Am I completely off here?

Thor Anders

July 16, 2004

This is a very hotly debated issue and I'm sure you'll see pointers to other discussions that have taken place in the past.

I will pull religious materials from my caches when I'm doing maintenance. I consider it doing my part to clean up the environment. It's trash.

5.9k · July 16, 2004

I know people that pray to cracked range golf balls. It's something about that red stripe I think.

2k · July 16, 2004

hi,

recently, some GCers visiting my home area have looked up and also placed new caches. the content placed are very often of a religious nature: booklets, CDs, etc.

obviously not being a religious man, I feel a bit offended by this and quite frankly I want this content removed from my own caches. partly because I feel that these are subjective but also because I think noone will ever pick up these items so that they'll fill the container forever.

I'm not sure what to compare with, but to me it's like unwanted flyers in the mailbox. I mean, what's next? the labour party programme?

Am I completely off here?

Thor Anders

I don't think you should take them out of their caches if they put them in there. However, if they are in your cache I feel it is your cache so you can take out whatever you want.

38.2k · July 16, 2004

obviously not being a religious man, I feel a bit offended by this and quite frankly I want this content removed from my own caches.

Its not obvious to me. I'm not religious at all, yet I'm not offended by this material. I've found it in my caches and left it. I figure someone else may be interested.

Some people are way to eager to be offended these days, but its your cache and if you are offended by this material by all means remove it.

If you find it in somone else's cache, then just don't look at it and your mind won't be poisioned by it.

Edited July 16, 2004 by briansnat

1.8k · July 16, 2004

It was important to them. If it is now in YOUR cache, hey, remove what you want. If you put something that is important to YOU in their cache, hey, they can remove it. Let's say, for example, they are misguided enough to think a troll doll is Satanic....they might remove it from their cache. You offend them, they offend you - the Biblical significance of that word "offend" does not mean "I'm uncomfortable with it." In Scripture, "offend" means, "it leads me to sin." I think that you are only talking about "discomfort."

1.8k · July 16, 2004

"Took diamond earrings, left John 3:16 scribbled on a scrap of paper torn from the log book." I see that every now and again.

I haven't seen much of that stuff show up in my caches, but I AM religious about removing that stuff when I'm doing maintenance. It doesn't offend me or anything, but it's just junk that nobody is going to want to take so why leave it in there?

Come on, this is just a game. Why the heck do you need to proselytize?

1.4k · July 16, 2004

<<SNIP>>

Am I completely off here?

<<SNIP>>

Yep

July 16, 2004

Trade 'em out, just like broken McToys and deposit them in a trash bin.

Problem solved.

1.5k · July 16, 2004

I think it depends on "How" relegious the items were. (Note: I am NOT a relegious person in any way shap or form) If they were good quality Christian music CDs or something I would probably leave it. If it was poor quality, or geared simply to "recruitment" I would definitely CITO it! I try and look at it with the opionion that just because I don't like doesn't mean that everyone won't...

22k · July 16, 2004

I am a religious person and I agree with Tirediron. Tracts and such? Sorry I don’t consider that a trade item and I would choose to remove them from my cache. But I wouldn’t reach a point where I would tell them to stop doing it. If it was a religious bookmark or CD then I would figure someone may decide to trade for it. It’s the used ticket stubs, or the spare change (and I do mean spare) left by adult cachers I have a problem with. Getting that stopped is much higher on my list.

July 16, 2004

I don't like seeing flyers in my caches but I don't mind seeing tapes and cds because those are very good trade items.

July 16, 2004

I am a religious person...and I think that this is a game where proslyting is not necessary. My thought is- that if you feel strongly enough about your faith and want to share it with someone- share it with someone you know and care about- not anonymous geocachers. Granted as a geocacher I feel some comradery with my fellow cachers- but not enough to make me leave religious pamphlets in a cache. I would be upset if someone left National Park pamphlets, business cards- or really- most anything that is paper- with, of course, the exception to money in my cache.

2.6k · July 16, 2004

One of the things I've really enjoyed about geocaching is that both the activity and the forum seem soothingly free of politics or religion. I'm savagely opinionated about both, and have a long, happy history of arguing blue murder about them in other places. But what a relief to be involved something just for fun!

I wouldn't be happy to see caches used for proselytizing, even if I agreed with the proselytizer.

July 16, 2004

What would you consider a religious item?

The Tibetan Prayer Flags left by Clatmandu, the Buddist Amulet with Card left by Zach-Zen, or maybe the Sand Dollar with story I leave behind. These are signature item that reflect thier associated cachers. Why worry about it?

Also don't leave US money in caches since we all know whats wriiten on that.

Team Sand Dollar

Edited July 16, 2004 by Team Sand Dollar

24.7k · July 16, 2004

The only thing that annoys me about tracts is the stealth mode in which they appear. Like broken McToys you can't find the source because nobody did it.

They don't bother me. I leave them most times and pull them out if the cache is too full at other times. I do wish though that the people who leave them would say so. For some they are a sig item and that's fine. Collectable even if you are into sig items but not into religion.

Most everyone here has given a good well rounded angle on it, at least the ones who haven't made tracts into a pet peeve.

July 16, 2004

I have to agree with what seems to be the popular opinion here. I am religious (not christian though) and I'll talk about my religion untill I'm blue in the face to someone who WANTS to listen, but putting this stuff (and by thstuff I mean the tracts and pamphlets and stuff, ther are some really good christian cds out there) in an anonymous cache is not right. If I found any in my cache, and that includes any about my religion as well, I would take them out.

Danegar

July 16, 2004

There's a local cacher who puts tracts in caches and my kids like trading for them. They think they're interesting. I don't see what the big deal is, how much room do they even take up?

July 16, 2004

I don't own any caches (yet!) so I'm not sure if my opinion should count, but that's never stopped me before, so here goes...

I wouldn't mind finding "trade items" rosary beads, jesus statues, etc (even though I'm not catholic), but I would mind pamphlets and other "literature" that IMHO don't constitute a trade item. Small bibles would be okay with me. Then again a small book of the Koran (sp?) would be just as interesting.

I've seen several posts where people enjoy leaving business cards or coupons (which I certainly don't consider a trade item) and I would find that just as annoying. Of course something like a blockbuster gift card for $5 would be a good trade item.

So... all in all, I don't think caches should be used for advertising or preaching or promoting any kind of topic UNLESS that is the "mission" of that particular cache (kinda like the "book exchange" near my house).

6.5k · July 16, 2004

Ooh a nice juicy topic that hasn't been beaten to death recently.

Here's my nickel: If it's in your cache-you can remove whatever you want in the spirit of responsible maintainence. If it's in another cache and you do not want to trade for it, than leave it there.

Now since the balance of the replies so far seem to be -leave the cd's, tapes, and thingamajigs, but take the tracts I just gotta wonder-

should I stop leaving the pamphlets from the NC Sweet Potato Council in the caches I visit?

There are some great recipes in them.

22k · July 16, 2004

Sweet potatoes!? I'd rather eat eggplant.

or the pamphlet.

Actually I'd rather eat a steak dinner with all the trimmings.

Well I would.

Edit: additional thought.

Edited July 16, 2004 by Elf Danach

July 16, 2004

thanks for all the replies!

firstly, I'd never -- with the exception of trading out -- remove items from caches that are not mine.

after reading this thread I think my actions at this point will be zero. as someone so philosophically stated, I am not really offended rather discomforted with this content.

with more "offensive propaganda" I think I'd quetly remove it, without making any more fuzz. if the already placed booklets sticks I'll replace them with more attractive items.

Thor Anders (soon to be on vacation on an island with two caches and three travelbugs)

1.4k · July 16, 2004

<<SNIP>>
with more "offensive propaganda" I think I'd quetly remove it, without making any more fuzz. <<SNIP>>

There you go. The quietly part is key.

3k · July 16, 2004

I get enough preaching from family members. But if someone puts a religious item in the cache I leave it, my cache or not. If someone is putting in those tracts, those are paper, and like business cards they do not get picked up, and eventually get all old and moldy, so I do remove them and toss them them out. What I'd like to know is if the cachers who are religious are taking the stuff out in trade. If not, then let's just not do it, because those of us who do not preach the good word certainly aren't taking them. I haven't even read the Bible my sister gave me yet either. I'm waiting for the movie to come out.

July 16, 2004

i'm pretty sure this falls under one of those prohibited practices...as it should given constitutional separation of church and cache

yup, i as right; from OUR bible:

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, or social agendas may not be listed. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

Edited July 16, 2004 by kosarin

July 16, 2004

being the good catholic boy that I am....take it out!!!!!!! geeze I agree totally Geocaching is for fun and plenty of McToys....not religious texts and music.....any way if I were you i'd kindly email the people and ask them to not put religious stuff in caches........this could go to the supreme court

July 16, 2004

I try to do as Dan-Oh suggested. If there is anything in a cache that I don't think should be there I trade it out.

July 16, 2004

I agree, trading it out is the best and acceptable way to handle it.

I think I read on Geocaching.com that there should be no items placed in a cache

that has an agenda, a purpose to promote or spread the word about an idea or an organization....I think religious items falls under this catagory.

I think there is a time and place for everything but to appeal to a general audience of geocachers it should remain generic, intending not to offend anyone.

JUST MY 2 CENTS...

2.1k · July 17, 2004

Its not obvious to me. I'm not religious at all, yet I'm not offended by this material. I've found it in my caches and left it. I figure someone else may be interested.

Some people are way to eager to be offended these days, but its your cache and if you are offended by this material by all means remove it.

If you find it in somone else's cache, then just don't look at it and your mind won't be poisioned by it.

I agree!

3.1k · July 17, 2004

Offended by items left behind? I think the only thing that would offend me, if it were put into one of my caches, would be human waste.

Maybe we need a new rule

:unsure:

1k · July 17, 2004

I would be upset if someone left National Park pamphlets, business cards- or really- most anything that is paper- with, of course, the exception to money in my cache.

Well, I'll agree with the business cards, but National park pamphlets contain a lot of useful information, which I think someone could possibly use. Maybe it might spur them to visit that area in the future. I agree that a National park pamphlet, all by itself isn't a really worthwhile trade item since you can get them free, but as a giveaway in a cache, I don't see a problem with leaving those.

And to stay on topic, I'm sure there are some very religious people who believe that a tract is worth those two dollar bills they traded for it.

July 17, 2004

Just as caching appeals to people all over the world, it appeals to people of all religious faiths (or the lack thereof); the diversity is but one factor of caching that keeps it interesting. I'm a Christian, yet I delve into Tarot cards. My signature items are the fortune telling fish...a bit cheezy, but *I* like them. Some Christians might take offense and remove a Tarot card or a fish that I leave in their cache. Fine, it's their cache. Someone might leave an Anarchist's Cookbook in mine. If I object to it, I'll remove it. I don't think most cachers leave swag that they feel someone else may find objectionable on purpose...different ways of life will determine what kind of trinkets a cacher carries. I'd much rather find a "WWJD" key chain than a McToy, but I'd take a Magic 8 Ball over rosary beads.

Remember that many cachers don't know anything about the person who places the cache other than what they will read in that individual's profile; how are they to know what said person will find objectionable? If, on the other hand, I find one of CyBret's caches, and I know that he feels pink ping pong balls are the work of the devil, that's the last thing I'll leave in his cache. If you don't like religious articles left in your cache (or beer-drinking bear stickers), I'd suggest writing a note saying so, perhaps on the cover of the log book where cachers will see it.

Christians, Buddhists, atheists, or self-proclaimed demi-gods...we're all cachers. We just like different swag.

2.6k · July 17, 2004

Oh, no, I don't think the original poster was talking about cool bits of swag that also have religious significance. At least, I didn't mean that. A neat trade item is a neat trade item. It's pamphleteering, straight-up evangelizing, that I object to, no matter the cause.

I don't want a booklet telling me to get right with God, or save the whales, or vote Republican, or visualize world peace, or support the Second Amendment, or preserve the rain forest, or choose life, or get a colonoscopy. And I champion at least a couple of those things In Real Life. As someone pointed out above, if you already believe in the cause, you don't need the tract. And if you don't believe, are you really going to be persuaded by a damp, smelly brochure tucked into a baggie with a handful of pocket change a wind up Timon and Pumba from Micky D's?

It's too much like being nagged. And I don't walk a mile in a pine forest at 6am on a gorgeous Summer Saturday for that.

July 17, 2004

Ok so pamphlets are out but some think 'neat trade item' religious related stuff is ok.

So how about this:

Obviously Religious? Yes.

Paper? Yes.

Straight-up evangelizing? Well...it is a historical literary work, which is an interesting read even if you don't believe it's God Breathed...

Ok, I have to admit... I think the camo and military tie in makes it kind of unique and therefore cool...

Tell me what do you all think?

Edit to add this P.S.

I'm obviously a Christian cacher... but I'd take a Koran, or other philisophical or religious book if it were cool and in good condition even if it were obviously for something I disagreed with ... just because I think it's interesting learning what others believe.

Edited July 17, 2004 by GentleWhisper

July 17, 2004

I've seen several posts where people enjoy leaving business cards or coupons (which I certainly don't consider a trade item) and I would find that just as annoying.

I have left tracts from my church in local caches, but it is not a trade item, same as business cards or other pamphlets. I leave it because it tells people what the bible says about how to go to heaven (its a free gift) and people might want to know of a good church to visit in the area.

Psalms 119:165 "Great peace have they which love thy law, and nothing shall offend them."

4.7k · July 18, 2004

I leave it because it tells people what the bible says about how to go to heaven

i ALREADY know how to get to heaven. you get off at exit 17 and hang a left. at the light, go left again and then up. it's simple.

July 18, 2004

next post...i screwed this one up

Edited July 18, 2004 by cachecows209

July 18, 2004

But ... what are the coordinates? Can I download those waypoints?

for heaven - that is.

Just a little humor....

Edited July 18, 2004 by Morgan's Marauders

July 18, 2004

Ok so pamphlets are out but some think 'neat trade item' religious related stuff is ok.

So how about this:

Obviously Religious? Yes.

Paper? Yes.

Straight-up evangelizing? Well...it is a historical literary work, which is an interesting read even if you don't believe it's God Breathed...

Ok, I have to admit... I think the camo and military tie in makes it kind of unique and therefore cool...

Tell me what do you all think?

Edit to add this P.S.

I'm obviously a Christian cacher... but I'd take a Koran, or other philisophical or religious book if it were cool and in good condition even if it were obviously for something I disagreed with ... just because I think it's interesting learning what others believe.

i think thats cool and all but I wouldnt deface scriptures to look cool for geocaching.........the bible doesn't need to be "cool"

bring this evangelist stuff to doorsteps...not my caches

July 18, 2004

i think thats cool and all but I wouldnt deface scriptures to look cool for geocaching.........

Guess I don't know what you mean. These Bibles are printed like this for our men and women in the military... They haven't been defaced.

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