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Resetting Witness Posts ?

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Has NGS expressed any interest in having volunteers reset missing witness posts or otherwise mark obscured locations? Seems like if they were important enough to put up in the first place they'd be important enough to replace when missing.

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In the past the state advisor(s) have provided those orange posts to many surveryors.

 

Its possible you might contact the one in your state (check NGS website under state advisor's).

 

BUT A WARNING, you assume a big risk driving anything into the ground. Before doing this you are required to notify miss dig and tell them what you are doing. They in turn notify all the utilities in the area to come out and mark them. Failure to not do this places all the liability for any damage to said utilities on your shoulders. While the chances are slim in many instances, drive a post thru a fiber optic cable and you will not believe how much it will cost to repair. And the utility company will go to the ends of the earth to find someone to pay for it so don't left any tire marks or fingerprints behind.

 

I am not trying to scare you off. I think this is a good idea for the most part, just want you to be aware of what can happen if you are not careful. If there is any hint of a buried utility in the area, think long and hard about it.

 

Once upon a time.....

I know of an old surveyor that came close to being shot for damaging a telephone cable that was not marked. He said next thing he knew Air Force Military Police had him face down in the dirt with a gun to the back of his head. The telephone was connected to a SAC AFB command center but it was off the base along road leading to it. Took about a day of brow-beating before they were satisfied he was not a saboteur. btw--The was 30 yrs ago and it made us all aware of what could happen and he tells us they told him the B52's and F15's were put on alert (in the sky).

 

BTW-I do this every chance I get but I am in a rural area. I have a source for witness post (not NGS). They are used posts that the local govt (TWP) picks up after vehicle run over them (those posts with reflectors along highways, they can't use metal ones anymore, must be PVC). They told me to take what I want because its going to scarp anyway. So I grabbed about 100 decent ones, cut off the bad ends and paint them with left over paint. I also drive them right next to mark, about the only thing I have to worry about is telephone.

Edited by elcamino

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While the chances are slim in many instances, drive a post thru a fiber optic cable and ...

I have been in areas so remote that the cell phone won't work. But I still see indicators that show that buried lines are nearby.

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Any one know why they go through places in the middle of nowhere?

 

PH0331 was in the middle of nowhere and it makes reference to the warning posts.

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Any one know why they go through places in the middle of nowhere?

Shortest routes (with easements) between two civilized points. The shorter the distance, the less wire that has to be bought and a shorter ditch to dig.

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RIGHT OF WAYS (EASEMENTS)

These have been aquired along the hiways and byways across the coutry as well.

it is why most power,phone water and other public works use the R.O.W.

 

I have placed witness posts right at the mark along the backside of the cement the BM is set in.

 

most of the time you do not have to worry about getting so deep that you hit anything but that is the (responsibility you take on)risk.

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Interesting idea?:

 

I propose that all current types of witness posts be made obsolete by putting them underground.

 

Solution:

 

Part 1: Instead of an above-ground witness post, develop one that can be installed (hammered) into the ground, right next to the disk's cement monumentation. This underground witness post would be either a specialized piece of metal, or a plastic stake containing a simple passive (non-powered) bit of circuitry (some kind of inductor, perhaps) that would signal a specialized metal detector.

 

Part 2: Make a specialized 'metal' detector that specifically detects this type of underground witness post.

 

An underground witness post, in conjunction with the PID's lat-lon coordinates (with GPS-derived coordinates in the NGS database in the case of non-horizontally-adjusted stations) would be sufficient to find the mark!

 

With this combination, all marks could be put underground for better security. Instead of having to be spotted visually, the can be 'seen' by the detector. The specialized target could even be installed in the cement monumentation.

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Interesting idea?:

 

I propose that all current types of witness posts be made obsolete by putting them underground.

 

Solution:

 

Part 1:  Instead of an above-ground witness post, develop one that can be installed (hammered) into the ground, right next to the disk's cement monumentation.  This underground witness post would be either a specialized piece of metal, or a plastic stake containing a simple passive (non-powered) bit of circuitry (some kind of inductor, perhaps) that would signal a specialized metal detector.

 

Part 2:  Make a specialized 'metal' detector that specifically detects this type of underground witness post.

 

An underground witness post, in conjunction with the PID's lat-lon coordinates (with GPS-derived coordinates in the NGS database in the case of non-horizontally-adjusted stations) would be sufficient to find the mark!

 

With this combination, all marks could be put underground for better security.  Instead of having to be spotted visually, the can be 'seen' by the detector.  The specialized target could even be installed in the cement monumentation.

:P Isn't the point of witness posts to make the mark easier to find? If you have to have special equipment just to find the witness post, you might as well have special equipment that locates the mark as well!

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gbod Posted on Jul 21 2004, 12:39 PM

Isn't the point of witness posts to make the mark easier to find? If you have to have special equipment just to find the witness post, you might as well have special equipment that locates the mark as well!

 

There is no special equipment to to locate a mark at this time, and for current marks, there probably never will be. Such equipment is what I was proposing in the form of equipment to find a new type of witness post that is within 2 or 3 inches of the disk - effectively equipment to locate a mark.

 

I have a metal detector and know that it will find 9,000 things you aren't looking for and is definitely not a specialized equipment for finding a benchmark disk.

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Any one know why they go through places in the middle of nowhere?

Shortest routes (with easements) between two civilized points. The shorter the distance, the less wire that has to be bought and a shorter ditch to dig.

But dont you think that it yould have higher mainence costs because you have to 5 or 10 miles into the woods to do repairs?

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But dont you think that it yould have higher mainence costs because you have to 5 or 10 miles into the woods to do repairs?

Since when does the lowest bidder consider repair costs? :o

 

But the ones I've seen where along roadways or not far from them so access wasn't that hard, but the roads were well into the boonies.

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In the past the state advisor(s) have provided those orange posts to many surveryors. 

 

Its possible you might contact the one in your state (check NGS website under state advisor's). 

Color me stupid ^_^ , but what would that web address be?

 

/edit/

I think I found it. http://www.ngs.noaa.gov

/edit

Edited by we3dements

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I found its NGS policy to not supply or encourage people to place witness posts. They have no control over this and although unintentional by the well doer, could cause a public relations problem for them. i.e. Property owner getting upset finding a post on his property etc. When they establish the marks, they are doing so with the consent of those property owners concerned.

 

So I would refrain from doing this as you may unwittingly cause ill will

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