The Life Of A Lame Cache

24.7k · July 13, 2004

Log 1 by Captain Kermudgen:

FTF! Woo Hoo! I got it before One Eyed Bandit, Ha! Neener Neener Neener!

Log 2 by One Eyed Bandit:

Curse you Captain! I must of missed FTF by five minutes. If I hadn’t of bumped into an old friend at the parking lot and got to talking… Oh well, next time. I hadn’t seen my friend for 10 years and I have to say she still looks good. dadgum good. We agreed to meet for dinner. Come to think of it, I’m glad I wasn’t FTF.

Log 3 by nOObEE

Our first cache. This one about stumped us. We looked in the bushes, and under the rocks. I didn’t know light poles did that. Cool!

Log 4 by Jaded Jack

Seen this a thousand times before.

Log 5 by Clam

DPM. DPM, DPM, DPM. Got the point? No? THIS CACHE FRIGGING SUCKS. There you go.

Log 6 by Sojorn Treker.

Man what a day, did the Garrison Point cache first, that’s a 5 mile hike. It was 97 degrees under a blazing sun. We were due to stock up on supplies, especially water. After finding the cache we headed into WalMart for a much needed break. I’ll tell you what, getting some cool liquid into your system on a hot day sure feels good. We bagged a cache to boot! Thanks.

Log 7 by Working Stiff:

Did this one at lunch. It’s good to get out of the office.

Log 8 by Traveler Sings the Blues:

Came to town and looked for caches. We were running blind. I ever so disappointed. If you have seen one parking lot you have seen them all. What I wish this cache was something else. I want them all to be tourist worthy for people. You know someone like me who just loads waypoints heads out. Didn’t I do this one in Nashville?

Log 9 Keep On Truckin:

I’ve seen a lot of WalMarts all over the country and I’ve and found a lot of Wally world caches. They are all a little different. Not the store, the people. You can tell a lot about a town by the people who visit WalMart. I like this town.

Log 10 by The SeeDo Monkey:

I was out gathering ideas for caches like they said in the forums. They said I should find some caches first. Now I know what they mean. Before I was going to place one near a hidden spring in a small wooded area hidden behind downtown. However following everyone’s advice I know another WalMart across town! Glad I didn’t go with my instinct!

Log 11 by Cache Nazi

What the hell is this crap? I can’t believe I wasted my time finding this thing. Normally I wouldn’t even bother to log such a lame cache but we have to make a stand. I’m logging a DNF because this wasn’t worth finding. You need to go back to geocaching school. It’s obvious you flunked cache locations 101. After you finish maybe you’re caches will be worthy of my time.

Log 12 by Caching Dad:

The wife went shopping today. It’s school season. I had to get out and stretch, thanks for having a nearby cache. I really needed the air. If I had to hear my kids tell me they didn’t like the clothes their mom was picking out one more time I’d of probably taken them down to the farm store for Wranglers and flannel shirts. She has a lot more patience than I do. You probably saved my daughters from a fashion fate worse than death. She hates Wranglers.

Log 13 by Red Shirt:

I hurt myself on this one. I always do. You would think it’s my fate to just die. I have this feeling that one of these days I will, and nobody will know my name. Thanks for the cache…I think.

1.9k · July 13, 2004

wow, you said it all.

38.2k · July 13, 2004

Wow, too bad we don't see that kind of brutal honesty.

Edited July 13, 2004 by briansnat

July 13, 2004

Is this an actuall cache? If it is can I get a link?

1.5k · July 13, 2004

Geezz RK.. don't hold back. Get off the fence and tell us how you really feel!

22k · July 13, 2004

and the average rating on this one would be......?

July 13, 2004

WOW that looks like a few caches we found last weekend, and hope to find a few more in an area where “ALL” caches placed are welcomed by the geocaching community, unlike some areas that like to preach from the high place they are standing on.

What someone else calls lame may be the only kind of caches someone else can hunt.

There are caches for everyone if you don‘t like the style drive on by………… JOE

1.8k · July 13, 2004

Geezz RK.. don't hold back. Get off the fence and tell us how you really feel!

Now, isn't this type of point-making so much more pleasant?

How many people actually collaborated on the log book? good job.

I've only done one lamp post cache behind a sbux, almost had a wreck. 'twas enuff.

20.7k · July 13, 2004

Don't you wish everyone would feel free to post honest accounts of their visits? It would make reading the logs enjoyable again and eliminate anyone's desire for a ratings system.

edit: Why is my spelling getting worse?

Edited July 13, 2004 by sbell111

1.1k · July 13, 2004

A thing of beauty, RK. Yes, you made your point (seriously), every cache offers something for someone.

Having said that:

(1) Yep, log # 8, that's ME! And I make no apologies for it.

(2) Log #10: TOO REAL in some areas.

(3) JoGPS, yep, I must be on my high horse. The OCCASIONAL WalMart parking lot lamppost/dumpster micro, OK fine...but 100, 200, or more? NO, NO, NO!! (Unless we have some way to specifically know in advance: "Numbers run cache".)

And as for your ongoing comment about the fact that those caches may be the only kind our mobility-impaired cachers can do: Fine, but equality works both ways: Give the NON-mobility-impaired a way to know in advance, then maybe everyone can play and maybe everyone can be satisfied.

-Dave R.

3.9k · July 13, 2004

I think I see what you're trying to say RK. I get the point, and I'm going to go hide a lunch time quickie in the mall parking lot tomorrow instead of at Wal-Mart.

It'll be a micro, with just a log book. I like those and appreciate a variety of caches. If they were all 4 star caches I'll bet you'd be here posting about why aren't there more quick and easy caches, we don't always have time to go for the caches that take two hours to complete, and someone should go to school to learn how to be more like you.

Someone give that boy some cheese.

20.7k · July 13, 2004

Even though many posters in the forums and this thread have agreed with RK on this issue, you still chose to attack him personally. Classy.

21.9k · July 13, 2004

Remain Calm! All is Well!

July 13, 2004

Last time I looked around this was a site where individuals could hide a cache like they wanted to find and that’s what’s sooooooooo cool about this game.

If you have problem with that I am sorry for you narrow minded view of a great sport that was meant for everyone to be able to play the way they liked. I have quite a few caches hidden and over 30 were not hunted this past weekend simply because no one wanted to. I can live with that and they are a lot harder to find than a light pole and take a little more time and some folks can’t hunt them at all.

There will always be a place for easy and hard caches but don’t try to call a cache that’s not up to your personal standards lame, even by the logs above someone had fun finding it and someone also had fun hiding the cache.

The difference between all the logs above just shows the different types of cache hunter there are out there wanting to have fun.

If you go to a cache and you can see the location from the truck, drive on if you don’t like it. READ the cache pages before you go caching, you know simple stuff.

I placed a very simple cache one week before Geo-Woodstock but rated it a five / five only a mile away from the event, wanted to see how many cachers read the cache pages before coming to Nashville only six of the 14 finds on the cache were from out of towners little did they know it was really a one / one and a half if they had read the cache page. So a easy cache that close to where an event was held is testimony that we are not reading cache pages anymore just loading coordinates, stuffing pages into their PDA and leaving the house to hunt, no wonder so many people are upset, they don’t want to take the time to look at where they are going anymore they expect pocket query and the like to sort it all out for them.

Queen of Tennessee Plantations

Before going to an area you have never been to before doing a little reading it not hard to figure out the ones you do not like to hunt………….. JOE

Cool RK and KA

7.3k · July 13, 2004

Ummm, maybe more people would go to the cache, if it were open to all members, not just premium members.

July 13, 2004

Thanks for making a point, RK!

3.9k · July 13, 2004

Even though many posters in the forums and this thread have agreed with RK on this issue, you still chose to attack him personally. Classy.

I'm sorry you read that as an attack, it was mearly an attempt to point out to RK that his thread came down way too hard on Wal-Mart type micros. JoGPS said it better than I did, but I think it was basically the same point. This isn't the first thread and I'm sure it won't be the last where people complain about micro caches being "lame".

And what does it matter that many posters in the forums and in this thread agreed with RK? Does that mean I'm not allowed to point out why I think he's wrong?

24.7k · July 13, 2004

...This isn't the first thread and I'm sure it won't be the last where people complain about micro caches being "lame".

And what does it matter that many posters in the forums and in this thread agreed with RK? Does that mean I'm not allowed to point out why I think he's wrong?

Mushtang. My point was exactly the opposite. "Lame" caches serve a purpose. The ability to enjoy them has as much to do with the person seeking them as anything else. Lame is as lame does, means that if your panties get in a twist over it and someone elses doesn't, the problem probably isn't with the cache. I tried to show that via a series of logs based on what people are really thinking or would or could say.

Sometimes an angle works and sometimes an angle doesn't.

July 13, 2004

or:The life of a lame thread. Different strokes for different folks

1.1k · July 13, 2004

JoGPS, I'll remind you (as I've pointed out in my screeds on this subject in this and other threads) that I still PAPER CACHE; I don't PQ and I don't just load coords/waypoints. I print out every cache I target and on those printouts I include the last 5 logs. I DO know what I'm after. Still, as I said elsewhere, other metro areas have plenty of urban micros too, and yet somehow they keep the quality higher.

You know I know where you stand on this, and I know you know where I stand on it. I don't think 101 Dalmatians (and their copycat equivalents) in your (and other areas...key point! It's not just Nashville, your area is just the "poster child" for it) are good for the game. You think it's OK, there's something for everyone. I DO agree with that (seriously, not patronizing you), but not to the point of SATURATION BOMBING of an area, and you can't deny, THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENED HERE.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this, Joe. I respect the fact that you're taking up your position as a local "leader" by defending your area's cachers and what they have to offer our great game. I just don't happen to believe that THAT MANY of that style of cache contributes to keeping our game great, even though it contributes to making our game more inclusive to more people of varying levels of physical ability. I hope you will respect that opinion as well.

-Dave R.

2.3k · July 13, 2004

I just don't happen to believe that THAT MANY of that style of cache contributes to keeping our game great, even though it contributes to making our game more inclusive to more people of varying levels of physical ability.

Hey Dave, how do you feel about that "coastal city's" caches?

(sorry, just couldn't help it!)

1.1k · July 13, 2004

I just don't happen to believe that THAT MANY of that style of cache contributes to keeping our game great, even though it contributes to making our game more inclusive to more people of varying levels of physical ability.

Hey Dave, how do you feel about that "coastal city's" caches?

(sorry, just couldn't help it!)

The same...although I must admit, that one hider there HAS cut down on his hides, and he's even chosen some better locations recently...so I have some cautious optimism that he's getting "the message". IT CAN BE DONE.

-Dave R.

1.8k · July 13, 2004

RK, you never cease to amaze me... good job with this thread. The different logs paint an interesting picture. You must have been paying attention during that sociology class in school. Everyone is different and thats what makes life interesting.

July 13, 2004

Nice point RK. This one hit home with me today.

I had been thinking of archiving a super micro cache I had placed at the top of a hill. When I placed it, there were no leaves on the trees, nor any good hiding places at the top of the hill for a full size cache. The view was excellent, and I wanted to bring people to the view. I didn't want to take them to a lower area which would have supported a larger cache. Thus, I stuck a winter-friendly super micro a few feet from the trail at the top of the hill.

Well, the leaves grew, and the view was spolied. So now I was the possesor of a "micro hidden in the woods", with no obvious reason for it being there. I was near ready to archive it, when I got this log today...

Log Date: 7/13/2004
Very cool cache! This has to be one of my fav's so far. Skeeter's weren't to bad, butI can see how they could be very bad. Signed Log

So I guess there are people out there who like to hunt super micros hidden in the woods. I'll leave it for now.

As far as people hunting super micros in parking lots, well, I don't know if we have a good balance. We've only got 2 of them in the Twin Cities that I can think of (out of 499 finds), a couple of lamppost caches, and only a handful of guardrail caches. I suppose that people who like to hunt those will be disappointed in visiting this area.

One thing I don't get is why anybody would visit a walmart parking lot cache if they don't like to hunt them? Surely they can tell its in a parking lot from the aerial photo. So why do they go and then complain about it?

7.3k · July 13, 2004

I've got a guardrail cache, but it is a beautiful view, and it is next to a sign that describes the area. And the area is hit a lot with tourists who do not have enough caches in that area to go to. It was the only type of cache that I could have hid in that spot.

Hopefully, I am forgiven.

July 13, 2004

One thing I don't get is why anybody would visit a walmart parking lot cache if they don't like to hunt them? Surely they can tell its in a parking lot from the aerial photo. So why do they go and then complain about it?

Because they like too.

1.8k · July 13, 2004

RK, I appreciate your approach in this thread. It's a shame some people have misinterpreted it. Lampposts or guardrail hides serve their purposes. There are cachers in my area who don't have the physical agility to find the caches I've left on hilltops, and who genuinely appreciate a cache they can get to without leaving the pavement...And I make no apologies about placing caches like that. Every type and style of cache has its appreciative audience.

2.3k · July 14, 2004

The subtitle said it all.

5.3k · July 14, 2004

Not all caches can be great, maybe we need a new rating added for cache quality

One star-don't do this for the veiw or to learn anything

Two stars-It's ok nothing to write home about

Three stars-Interesting area with history

Four stars-Nice area easy to get to

Five stars-Hard to do hike but well worth the effort

And lets not forget that some people are limited to were they can search for a cache. While I like a cache with a great view etc. for the time being I am limited to short hikes and doing urban caches. It may be a while before I can do a long hike.

Also keep in mind if you like a cache that is a challenge a 1X1 is not it.

July 14, 2004

......

Log 10 by The SeeDo Monkey:

I was out gathering ideas for caches like they said in the forums. They said I should find some caches first. Now I know what they mean. Before I was going to place one near a hidden spring in a small wooded area hidden behind downtown. However following everyone’s advice I know another WalMart across town! Glad I didn’t go with my instinct!

......

July 14, 2004

You know, someone did a lamp post cache around here. (It is in a Decon Container in Carmel, Indiana) Almost nobody in this part of the state had ever seen this before, and the first two logs (the first being ours) were no-finds.

Amazing how such a "lame" idea can be considered creative in other part of the world.

Are there really a lot of these things? We have Cached Boston, San Fransisco, Cleavland, and Evansville, Canada, Michigan, and Bloomington, and have only seen one of these.

5.3k · July 14, 2004

You know, someone did a lamp post cache around here. (It is in a Decon Container in Carmel, Indiana) Almost nobody in this part of the state had ever seen this before, and the first two logs (the first being ours) were no-finds.

Amazing how such a "lame" idea can be considered creative in other part of the world.

Are there really a lot of these things? We have Cached Boston, San Fransisco, Cleavland, and Evansville, Canada, Michigan, and Bloomington, and have only seen one of these.

For someone who has never seen a lamp post cache before it is a cool cache. SO that promts the to do one also, thats why there are so many. I remember the first one I found so I hide one one about 100 miles from in the other area that I cache in every two weeks. There are logs from people who like the cache.

1.8k · July 14, 2004

For someone who has never seen a lamp post cache before it is a cool cache.

A few "newbie" quotes from this lamppost cache of mine (my only one)... Apparently it's not always a simple, boring hide!

Great hide, we love this technique.

Decided to try this one for the third or fourth time. Finally, some success! Had a little more insight from JAZE, who I met at the Micro-2 cache this afternoon. He didn't give it away, but helped me expand my horizons a little.

Contrary to popular belief, there are several good hiding spots at this location. Had to think for a moment, then it came to me.

Nice Find ,Took a little bit but we found it.

You gotta be clever to figure these out. It only took me 2 tries, yesterday and today. After a call to Team PerkyPerks, I was assured that it was there, but just not too obvious. So I found it on the second attempt.

Drove right up to it, but looked everywhere else but the correct location. I never seem to get these caches! I looked around for about 20 min until I found it! Turns out, I parked right next to the darn thing!

Great starter cache. With a little help from JAZE, we pulled our heads out and found it. Thanks for the great fun.

1.1k · July 14, 2004

For someone who has never seen a lamp post cache before it is a cool cache.

A few "newbie" quotes from this lamppost cache of mine (my only one)... Apparently it's not always a simple, boring hide!

OK, I'll agree with that. I"ll even go so far as to say that I reacted similarly the first time I saw one ("back in the day").

The issue I've been saying over and over and over again is that 1 or 2 in an area is fine, but BLANKETING AN AREA with 50, 60, 100 of them, and having that trend extend to MULTIPLE metro areas, is NOT good for our game.

It creates a situation where when you go to a metro area, it seems as though "that's all there is" (and don't say "if you don't like 'em, don't hunt 'em", because you don't necessarily know that's what it is until you get there), and it sets the example to new hiders that "this is the game", so it gets copied, and the sore festers.

If I'm a broken record on this, it's because the SITUATION is a broken record in several metro areas.

-Dave R.

1.8k · July 14, 2004

The issue I've been saying over and over and over again is that 1 or 2 in an area is fine, but BLANKETING AN AREA with 50, 60, 100 of them, and having that trend extend to MULTIPLE metro areas, is NOT good for our game.

Dave, I agree with you completely. I'd quickly get bored after the fifth or sixth lamppost hide in a row. I used to think fake sprinklers were the coolest thing in the world until I found about 50 of them too. I just meant to point out specific examples of people enjoying--and even having to make several trips to find--a lousy Altoids tin under a lamppost.

Maybe I've been lucky...My caching experiences have been limited to California and Arizona thus far, and there doesn't seem to be an overwhelming proliferation of any one type of cache in any of the places I've frequented.

20.7k · July 14, 2004

...
I placed a very simple cache one week before Geo-Woodstock but rated it a five / five ...

Personally, I think intentionally misrating a cache makes the problem worse, not better. On one hand you say that there is a cache for every cacher, yet you then misrate your caches thereby making it more difficult for people to search for caches they like.

20.7k · July 14, 2004

I'm sorry you read that as an attack, it was mearly an attempt to point out to RK that his thread came down way too hard on Wal-Mart type micros. ...
And what does it matter that many posters in the forums and in this thread agreed with RK? Does that mean I'm not allowed to point out why I think he's wrong?

I have no problem with your position, I just felt that you jumped on an individual too hard and too personally. In my mind it minimized your argument, rather than strengthening it.

Its all good.

1.1k · July 14, 2004

The issue I've been saying over and over and over again is that 1 or 2 in an area is fine, but BLANKETING AN AREA with 50, 60, 100 of them, and having that trend extend to MULTIPLE metro areas, is NOT good for our game.

Dave, I agree with you completely. I'd quickly get bored after the fifth or sixth lamppost hide in a row. I used to think fake sprinklers were the coolest thing in the world until I found about 50 of them too. I just meant to point out specific examples of people enjoying--and even having to make several trips to find--a lousy Altoids tin under a lamppost.

Maybe I've been lucky...My caching experiences have been limited to California and Arizona thus far, and there doesn't seem to be an overwhelming proliferation of any one type of cache in any of the places I've frequented.

Hmmm, I'm not a big fan of the fake sprinkler head hide, because I've been known to open up a REAL sprinkler head searching for the nearby fake...I'm not sure if I was the property management company of the location that I'd particularly appreciate that (let alone how one would try to explain it if caught).

Elaborating on your other point, I made 2 key points in my Note to Local Hiders document: (1) Just because a location CAN support a cache hide doesn't mean that it SHOULD, and (2) If it means hiding fewer caches but keeping the quality high, then that's what it means. I also pointed out the "1 or 2 of a style OK, but 20, 30, 50 not so good" point.

-Dave R.

20.7k · July 14, 2004

...We're going to have to agree to disagree on this, Joe. I respect the fact that you're taking up your position as a local "leader" by defending your area's cachers and what they have to offer our great game. ...

I feel that I must mention that this is a very individual hobby. I rather doubt that any area has a 'leader'. Certainly, JoGPS is not mine.

20.7k · July 14, 2004

Perhaps this thread has gotten away from its roots. While I cannot speak for RK, in my opinion, the most important thing to be gleaned from it is that one should think about the different messages a cache may send to various geocachers. Also, I like to think that it outlines a need to go back to more honest logs. In the beginning, I don't believe it was that big of a deal if someone logged what they found wanting in a certain cache. Now, the log is very likely to be deleted.

1.1k · July 14, 2004

...We're going to have to agree to disagree on this, Joe. I respect the fact that you're taking up your position as a local "leader" by defending your area's cachers and what they have to offer our great game. ...

I feel that I must mention that this is a very individual hobby. I rather doubt that any area has a 'leader'. Certainly, JoGPS is not mine.

I hear ya, SBell. I never said JoGPS is "THE" local leader, but he certainly is "A" local leader...just in terms of visibility, participation, etc. EVERY area has its local "leaders" - doesn't mean they "make the rules" or anything like that, just means they're "known".

(Take a look at the documents I've published (linked via my GC profile)...I make it very clear that I believe I have the credentials/experience in our game to be qualified to offer the opinions, but I make it similarly clear that I'm not trying to "speak the gospel", and that I very much welcome any/all respectful disagreements.)

-Dave R.

Edited July 14, 2004 by drat19

2.5k · July 14, 2004

I have quite a few caches hidden and over 30 were not hunted this past weekend simply because no one wanted to. I can live with that and they are a lot harder to find than a light pole and take a little more time and some folks can’t hunt them at all.

You hit the nail on the head... Cache N Dash was a strict numbers game and people out for numbers didn't want to spend the time getting ammo boxes in the woods. (Although ask southpaw about my rant somewhere around hour 13. He finally took me into the woods at about 10pm so I could find a 'real' cache)

As for the first post.... If y'all read that list, it's actually a dadgum good argument on why we should have all kinds of caches... One person was happy for a FTF, a couple others were happy to see the people of the area... Someone else was glad he had an excuse to leave shopping with the wife for a few minutes... There's a gazillion reasons - for or against - any type of cache, and if you read that log, you'll see why.

As for the Dalmation caches... If I ever do another one, I think very well that I might scream. As you can see with some of my logs, I got a little tired with chasing spotted dogs.... I started shouting out different dog breeds as we jumped out of the car.. There's a Chiuhauah (sic), a mini pin, etc... All silly little dogs... No collies or dobermans or labradors... Then instead of re-breading the dogs, I started naming them. It's not even that it was another micro... It's just that after about 30 of them, you start hoping for more original names.

1.1k · July 14, 2004

Also, I like to think that it outlines a need to go back to more honest logs. In the beginning, I don't believe it was that big of a deal if someone logged what they found wanting in a certain cache. Now, the log is very likely to be deleted.

You're SO right about this. You never know when a hider is going to be thin-skinned...which is how we've come to know that "TNLNSL" is (often) code for "Your cache was sub-par" (that was the diplomatic version).

-Dave R.

1.3k · July 14, 2004

I did a bunch of lamp post and parking lot caches over in the West Chester, PA area on Monday. Ordinarily, they'd be lame but it was raining extremely heavily that day and those were perhaps the only caches I could grab and bring back to the car before getting too wet.

July 14, 2004

This was a fun read. I enjoyed your injection of different opinions of the cache through the many different type of logs.

You gave some great valid points through a creative entertaining post. thank-you.

kirk out.

July 14, 2004

Other things notwithstanding, there is no question that JoGps is a leader in Middle Tennessee Geocaching. I can think of no ther person who has done so much for this sport. He has worked tirelessly with city, county and state park systems, so that we may play our game on public lands. This work has also extended to TVA and Army Corps of Engineers property. The next time you hunt one of the "Quality" caches in Tennessee, at the end of a four mile hike in pristine wilderness, remember that you have JoGps to thank for it. Yes, you could say that anyone could have done it, but he was the one who did.

Moving on to make this post on topic.

I have cached in twenty something states and found all kinds of caches. I can safely say that I enjoy all types, from lightpoles to serious hikes. My favorite type of cache is probably the "Ultra-camo" hide. I love it when the cache is in plain sight, just nearly impossible to identify, often it is a micro, but some of my favorites are full size caches hidden in plain sight. In my opinion, an ammo box in the woods is not necessarily a quality cache, and a micro in a parking lot is not necessarily lame. How many times have you gone for a walk in a park only to find the cache sitting at the base of a tree under a pile of unnatural sticks, rocks, etc. To me this is often a lame cache. Yay, you have just shown me another nondescript walking trail, with another unimaginative hide. Dave, you will have to admit that Biloxi has plenty of those. I do not see the difference between that and the classical lame micro in a lightpole.

I just returned from a trip to Des Moines, I had meeting there and was not able to dress for caching, still I wanted to find a couple while I was in town. I honestly would have welcomed some parking lot caches considering the time alotted and my clothes. No such luck, everything that I sought was in a park down a muddy trail. I opted to hunt puzzle caches so it would be fun for me. I am not slamming Des Moines caches, the ones that I found were good. However, there seemed to be little variety in the area. At least in Nashville, once you get past the white noise of easy micros, we still have more interesting, quality caches than most areas. People keep asking for a way to filter out "lame" micros. I have got news for you, it is already there. If you want to only find "quality" scenic caches, look at the cache page if it is a 1/1 or 1/1.5 in an urban area, it is probably not the most perfect cache for you. Or try looking at the area's "Greatest Hits" list. If you do all of the greatest hits in Nashville, you will be too busy scratching your head to complain about lame micros. Or perhaps you will go do some of the easy ones to help rebuild your confidence. Our greatest hits caches have left some of the best with frownies at the end of the day. You say that many areas do not have a hits list. I am sorry that those areas do not have a strong local organization to help shepherd the sport. Did I mention that JoGps helped start our organization.

Sorry to rant here, this is really not directed at any one person. I am tired of all the whining. People come to our area, pad their numbers and then complain about the lack of quality. If you hunt 1 difficulty caches, then that is what you get. The quality stuff is well hidden. I think that was JoGps' point when he rated Queen of Plantations a 5/5. The complainers rarely bother to go after the tough stuff. I find it mildly offensive that so many people have taken it upon themselves to "police" this sport. I do everything I can to further our sport, but when it comes to the caches themselves this generally means, placing quality caches. That said, I have some severely lame caches. I placed them so newbies will be able to find something when they come to my area. If I only placed my favorite kind of caches, how much fun would that be for people who come hunt my turf? My favorite caches that I have placed, have people with 1000's of finds scratching their heads. How much fun would those be for a family out on their first cache hunt? We often hear that complaint, "What if a lame lightpole was someone's first cache?" If it was they would either be excited or not, who cares? What if their first cache was a three mile hike in the woods with a piece of broken tupperware with wet and moldy junk inside? What if? What if? what if?

How about this, what if we let people place and hunt the kinds of cache they like and leave them alone? What if we quit worrying about the reputation of a city we do not live anywhere near? What if we stop trying to manage other peoples behavior? What if we just live and let live? What if we agree that this sport should hold something for everyone? What if we remember that what we are expounding are all just opinions and that we might be wrong? Not wrong in what we believe, but wrong to try to force our beliefs upon anyone else, particularly if we think we are doing it for their own good.

I think that RK did the right thing with this topic. If you go back and read the first post, you will see that he was trying to remind us that one man's trash is another man's treasure. Every experience is what you make of it. If you approach caching with a jaded attitude then all you will get is a smilie. If you approach every cache with a good attitude you will get the smilie and a pleasant experience. Every time I hear someone complain about a lame cache, I think to myself that they are being selfish. That they are angry because the cache hider failed to entertain them. If you ask me the problem is not with the hider, it is with the complainer.

Just my 1.40 I could be wrong.

July 14, 2004

Fine, but equality works both ways: Give the NON-mobility-impaired a way to know in advance, then maybe everyone can play and maybe everyone can be satisfied.

-Dave R.

Non-mobility impaired cachers do have a way to know in advance! If you click on the Mapquest map on the cache page or if you load your pocket query waypoints into USAPhoto Maps, ExpertGPS, QuakeMaps, etc.... and then look at the aerial photos it's usually pretty easy to tell that "Hey this looks like it's going to be in a parking lot. Then after reading the cache page where it says "35mm film can" with a 1/1 rating, I can pretty reasonably deduce that the cache is not going to be an ammo can placed at the base of a pristine waterfall at the end of a 5 mile hike. the cache hider's should not be blamed for the cache seeker's lack of pre-planning. I know that you mentioned people who like to just "download waypoints to the GPS and go" but being prepared is part of the game. Whether it's making sure that you have water and proper shoes for a 5 mile hike or knowing what kind of cache you are going after, again I say it's the finder's responsibility to be prepared. If you'll spend $35 or less on a used Palm III, $30 on a premium membership and a little time setting up a PQ so that you can DL waypoints to your GPS and cache info to the Palm, then you'll never have to hunt another cache you don't want to ever again.

Just my 2 cents worth - dissenting views welcome.

1.1k · July 14, 2004

Brad, your counterpoints are well-taken, and I DO understand your points of view even though I don't agree with all of them.

A couple of rebuttals:

(1) I have either placed or searched for every single cache in Biloxi or within 75 miles of it (except for a couple of boat caches). I can assure you and the other readers of this thread that we have VERY FEW of what you're calling non-descript and/or unimaginative. You blew through here a few months back, did a few of our caches, and cut/pasted the exact same log onto every single cache you found, so I have no idea from your logs what you might have thought of any cache you searched/found.

We have MANY 1/1.5 rated caches around here - our geographic features here with proximity to the Gulf means we have fewer "wooded" areas (although there are SCADS within 50 miles to the North in DeSoto NF) - but the vast majority of our so-called "easy" caches at least take cachers to our interesting locations and/or scenic areas off the beaten path. I and my local cohorts here (and remember, I'm a transplant to this area) take a lot of pride in what we offer visitng cachers. And where we DO have "lame" caches, it's ONE or TWO, not 50 or 100.

(2) You made the point that in your area a 1/1.5 cache in an urban area "may not be for you". You are making my point perfectly with your statement. When I visit an area (either for personal reasons like when I came thru Nashville last December, or when I'm stationed in an area on business and cache during after-work hours), I generally DO target 1/1.5 rated caches, due to time constraints or because I'm looking for a cross-section sampling of a metro area. How come I can visit Orlando, Tallahassee, Winston-Salem, Raleigh, DFW, MSP, and other areas, and the 1/1.5 caches there by and large take me to WORTHWHILE locations, but in Nashville, Mobile, and some other areas, those same rated caches take me REPEATEDLY to WalMart parking lots next to the dumpster, or random green spots on the side of the roads?

IT IS POSSIBLE to place 1/1.5 rated caches that are just as easy for "numbers runners", area visitors, or the mobility-impaired that are in WORTHWHILE LOCATIONS in your area. All it takes is a little more thought and effort, and maybe the self-restraint to say, "Hmmm, this area CAN support a cache, but it's just another parking lot, I think I'll let it pass."

As always, Brad, if we have to leave this at "we agree to disagree", I'm fine with that; I hope you are. Your point that there are all types of caches for all types of people has merit, and I know lots of people agree with it (as do I...in MODERATION). I stand by my assertion I've been making all along: I believe that PROLIFERATION of what we're calling the "lame" style of hide (as opposed to just onesie-twosie (moderation) of them in an area) is NOT GOOD for the overall health of our great game.

-Dave R.

Edited July 14, 2004 by drat19

1.1k · July 14, 2004

Fine, but equality works both ways: Give the NON-mobility-impaired a way to know in advance, then maybe everyone can play and maybe everyone can be satisfied.

-Dave R.

Non-mobility impaired cachers do have a way to know in advance! If you click on the Mapquest map on the cache page or if you load your pocket query waypoints into USAPhoto Maps, ExpertGPS, QuakeMaps, etc.... and then look at the aerial photos it's usually pretty easy to tell that "Hey this looks like it's going to be in a parking lot. Then after reading the cache page where it says "35mm film can" with a 1/1 rating, I can pretty reasonably deduce that the cache is not going to be an ammo can placed at the base of a pristine waterfall at the end of a 5 mile hike. the cache hider's should not be blamed for the cache seeker's lack of pre-planning. I know that you mentioned people who like to just "download waypoints to the GPS and go" but being prepared is part of the game. Whether it's making sure that you have water and proper shoes for a 5 mile hike or knowing what kind of cache you are going after, again I say it's the finder's responsibility to be prepared. If you'll spend $35 or less on a used Palm III, $30 on a premium membership and a little time setting up a PQ so that you can DL waypoints to your GPS and cache info to the Palm, then you'll never have to hunt another cache you don't want to ever again.

Just my 2 cents worth - dissenting views welcome.

Your points are also well-taken, seriously.

My only dissent is the same as I've been making all along: I don't have a problem with ONE or TWO "lame" caches...in fact, they're often a welcome break after tougher ones (even tough 1/1.5'ers). The issue is when areas get SATURATED with 50, 100, or more of them...so that when you're caching an area, it seems as though "that's all there is".

Is this kind of SATURATION good for the game...especially when it's certainly possible to hide caches of similar star ratings that are in more desirable or unique locations...with just a little bit more thought/effort, and a little more self-restraint?

-Dave R.

Edited July 14, 2004 by drat19

July 14, 2004

sbell111 said “Personally, I think intentionally misrating a cache makes the problem worse, not better. On one hand you say that there is a cache for every cacher, yet you then misrate your caches thereby making it more difficult for people to search for caches they like. “

If you noticed I did this for a reason and think everyone else saw this if they read the cache page on the first line said it all.

fly46 said “You hit the nail on the head... Cache N Dash was a strict numbers game and people out for numbers didn't want to spend the time getting ammo boxes in the woods. (Although ask southpaw about my rant somewhere around hour 13. He finally took me into the woods at about 10pm so I could find a 'real' cache) “

and

“As for the Dalmation caches... If I ever do another one, I think very well that I might scream. As you can see with some of my logs, I got a little tired with chasing spotted dogs.... I started shouting out different dog breeds as we jumped out of the car.. There's a Chiuhauah (sic), a mini pin, etc... All silly little dogs... No collies or dobermans or labradors... Then instead of re-breading the dogs, I started naming them. It's not even that it was another micro... It's just that after about 30 of them, you start hoping for more original names.”

I think you have been living in Nashville for a couple of months now and the only caches you have found are the ones at the event and the cache run and were taken to everyone and don’t think you even had a gps with you and yet you complain about the caches in the area, you need to get out more and see what’s out there.

drat19 said “We're going to have to agree to disagree on this, Joe.”

We always have, and this is why we are still friends and would enjoy eating supper with you again………….. JOE

The Life Of A Lame Cache

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