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Personally I think Jeremy has done an excellent job in controling this sport and implementing the rules that he has. With a few exceptions (minor ones) I agree with them. That said, if others managed to force in overbearing rules, it will kill the sport. Therefore there are several thing we can do to impose common sense and limit the desire for overbearing rules.

 

Personal responsability. I am responsible for my own actions. I'm am also able to be an example to others in how to do it right.

 

Peer pressure. Hold on... not always a bad thing. ie If offered drugs, it can be an excellent oportunity to be an example "Forget it man, that's a losing story! Think you need to get a life." Thus, if someone is out ruining the sport, call them on it! Either in the forums (best to leave out specific names) or in the cache logs, "Hopping a barbwire fence onto someones personal property?? Not my idea of a worthy cache!..so I didn't do it. Posting a big DID NOT find!"

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If the Constitution can be amended, then why not the 'guidelines'? On the other hand, let's not see the 'guidelines' turn into what legislation, supposedly based on the Constitution, has turned our legal system into.

 

I also think the current 'guidelines' could be tightened up, explained better (especially to new cachers) and gathered together in ONE easier to find spot.

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If the Constitution can be amended, then why not the 'guidelines'? On the other hand, let's not see the 'guidelines' turn into what legislation, supposedly based on the Constitution, has turned our legal system into.

 

I also think the current 'guidelines' could be tightened up, explained better (especially to new cachers) and gathered together in ONE easier to find spot.

bingo!

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...If you have been with Geocaching.com over the last three years or so, you've seen a lot of new rules put into place. Every one of those rules were the result of some sort of abuse, or an endangerment to the game of caching. The abuse or endangerment is what is perceived by TPTB, and their perception is our reality. After all, we are in their world and their organization...

In the past several years I have seen a lot of new rules come along. Most of them clarification of old rules, some of them very much needed. Some nothing more than site preference and having nothing to do with the community standards that are evolving.

 

Every new rule pushes the lines. This is by defintion. At one time anyone could place a cache anywhere and this site would list it. Then the rules changed and the line was pushed to maintainable distance. We both agree that caches should be maintained. Our agreement stops when you get into the specifics. However what you don't often consider is that by changing the rule the site is pushing the line on what had become acceptable caching practice. Every new rule and every policy whether good for the RASH, or merely site preference pushes the line that has been hammered out between cache seekers, cache owners, and the site.

 

In the forums you very often step up to the plate and rally against people who are in turn pushing the line back. Quick as you are to give the site credit for doing the right thing when it makes a new rule and pushes the line. You are quicker still to condem those who push the line from the other side of the fence.

 

Either side of the fence you are on, it's all the same. People protecting their own perception of how things should be. The sites perception is not the only reality out there. It's the one that governs this site.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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If the Constitution can be amended, then why not the 'guidelines'? On the other hand, let's not see the 'guidelines' turn into what legislation, supposedly based on the Constitution, has turned our legal system into.

 

I also think the current 'guidelines' could be tightened up, explained better (especially to new cachers) and gathered together in ONE easier to find spot.

The guidelines are collected in ONE spot here. They were rewritten in November solely for purposes of clarification and expansion of what is meant - just as you suggest. If additional suggestions can improve their clarity, we're all ears. May I suggest that you send specific drafting changes to Hydee? Thanks.

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In the forums you very often step up to the plate and rally against people who are in turn pushing the line back.  Quick as you are to give the site credit for doing the right thing when it makes a new rule and pushes the line.  You are quicker still to condem those who push the line from the other side of the fence.

 

The reason I do this RK is to protect the sport that I love. I have yet to see a rule by TBTP that I couldn't live with. What I have seen is a few rebels that want to take over the site and make it what they want. I refuse to let that happen. If you or others don't like this site or they way that it's run, then I suggest that you go to the "Other" site that you are always advertising.

 

I like this site the way it is. You can spew your garbage about how it mistreats you, but I promise you I'll always be here defending what I think is a good site. Until I'm banned I will not let you, or others like you take it over.

 

El Diablo

Edited by El Diablo
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In the forums you very often step up to the plate and rally against people who are in turn pushing the line back.  Quick as you are to give the site credit for doing the right thing when it makes a new rule and pushes the line.  You are quicker still to condem those who push the line from the other side of the fence.

 

The reason I do this RK is to protect the sport that I love. I have yet to see a rule by TBTP that I couldn't live with. What I have seen is a few rebels that want to take over the site and make it what they want. I refuse to let that happen. If you or others don't like this site or they way that it's run, then I suggest that you go to the "Other" site that you are always advertising.

 

I like this site the way it is. You can spew your garbage about how it mistreats you, but I promise you I'll always be here defending what I think is a good site. Until I'm banned I will not let you, or others like you take it over.

 

El Diablo

Thank You, El Diablo.

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...The reason I do this RK is to protect the sport that I love. I have yet to see a rule by TBTP that I couldn't live with. What I have seen is a few rebels that want to take over the site and make it what they want. I refuse to let that happen. If you or others don't like this site or they way that it's run, then I suggest that you go to the "Other" site that you are always advertising.

 

I like this site the way it is. You can spew your garbage about how it mistreats you, but I promise you I'll always be here defending what I think is a good site. Until I'm banned I will not let you, or others like you take it over.

 

El Diablo

El Diablo,

 

I'm sorry that you belive that playing yes man to TPTB is defending this RASH that we both love. What it really is is defending this site and nothing more.

 

There is a dispartity between this site and the geocaching community. We are not talking the end of times, but a few things worth addressing. The rebels choose to address this directly with the undisputed best geocache site out there. That is the right thing to do. You're efforts to fight against that do nothing more than encourage that dispartity to remain and possibley even grow. If this site that you clearly love were to embrace all of this RASH and you helped it to do so, all of the other sites would never get off the ground.

 

You are helping to drive a stake through the heart of what you love.

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...The reason I do this RK is to protect the sport that I love. I have yet to see a rule by TBTP that I couldn't live with. What I have seen is a few rebels that want to take over the site and make it what they want. I refuse to let that happen. If you or others don't like this site or they way that it's run, then I suggest that you go to the "Other" site that you are always advertising.

 

I like this site the way it is. You can spew your garbage about how it mistreats you, but I promise you I'll always be here defending what I think is a good site. Until I'm banned I will not let you, or others like you take it over.

 

El Diablo

El Diablo,

 

I'm sorry that you belive that playing yes man to TPTB is defending this RASH that we both love. What it really is is defending this site and nothing more.

 

There is a dispartity between this site and the geocaching community. We are not talking the end of times, but a few things worth addressing. The rebels choose to address this directly with the undisputed best geocache site out there. That is the right thing to do. You're efforts to fight against that do nothing more than encourage that dispartity to remain and possibley even grow. If this site that you clearly love were to embrace all of this RASH and you helped it to do so, all of the other sites would never get off the ground.

 

You are helping to drive a stake through the heart of what you love.

I'm not playing "Yes man" I'm standing up for what I believe in.

 

You can never stop a man who believes he's right and keeps coming.

 

I will keep coming.

 

El Diablo

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...

I'm not playing "Yes man" I'm standing up for what I believe in.

 

You can never stop a man who believes he's right and keeps coming.

 

I will keep coming.

 

El Diablo

Do you belive in the old site before all the new rules, or is the site as it is now the one you believe in best? Are you pre enrolled to believe in all the future rules of this site, or are you going to admit that maybe just maybe if you love geocaching there may not be perfect harmony between the rules of this site (or any other for that matter) and geocaching as an activity we both love?

 

Don't draw your battle lines so dadgum sharpy. You may want some help if suddenly you realize we agree on something down the road. Politics and bedfellows and all that.

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Everyone here is capable of posting intelligent opinions without bashing each other.

 

El Diablo is not a "Yes man." If his belief on what is right corresponds to the rules on this site, so much the better, as far as he is concerned. He is entitled to like the rules.

 

Renegade Knight is not "spewing garbage," he is expressing his opinions, which differ in many cases from the rules on this site. He is entitled to do so.

 

And both of you are subject to the Forum Guidelines, as am I. Follow them. Me, I'm getting an aspirin and packing for my trip.

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I don't think people offering suggestions or discussing of how things might could be better could be referred as "trying to take over the site". Trust me, I am aprreciative of the site. I want it to prosper and I want the sport to prosper as well. But in many cases it is spinning it's wheels. Some of the things that they have in place are great, but many don't make sense because they contradict themselves somewhere else. Things are denied because of some vague guidelines. At least they are vague until a self imposed enforcement by some TPTB. The guidelines go into about maintainable distances and about if you cache regularly in such distances, but the fact is that "regularly" is not defined and can many something different between 2 people. Then you have someone who has no finds that can place a cache anywhere and there's no history of where they cache or how far away they cache. Who knows if it's near them? These types of things contradict themselves and spins the wheels.

 

As far as a "yes man"....... :unsure:

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...

I'm not playing "Yes man" I'm standing up for what I believe in.

 

You can never stop a man who believes he's right and keeps coming.

 

I will keep coming.

 

El Diablo

Do you belive in the old site before all the new rules, or is the site as it is now the one you believe in best? Are you pre enrolled to believe in all the future rules of this site, or are you going to admit that maybe just maybe if you love geocaching there may not be perfect harmony between the rules of this site (or any other for that matter) and geocaching as an activity we both love?

 

Don't draw your battle lines so dadgum sharpy. You may want some help if suddenly you realize we agree on something down the road. Politics and bedfellows and all that.

LOL!!! Never thought of that.

 

Jerry

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Everyone here is capable of posting intelligent opinions without bashing each other.

 

El Diablo is not a "Yes man." If his belief on what is right corresponds to the rules on this site, so much the better, as far as he is concerned. He is entitled to like the rules.

 

Renegade Knight is not "spewing garbage," he is expressing his opinions, which differ in many cases from the rules on this site. He is entitled to do so.

 

And both of you are subject to the Forum Guidelines, as am I. Follow them. Me, I'm getting an aspirin and packing for my trip.

Thank you. That is what I was trying to point out before I was so rudely rebuffed.

 

Good luck on your trip, KA. I read about what Criminal has planned for you over on the NW forums, and I envy you! Sounds like fun! :unsure:

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Everyone here is capable of posting intelligent opinions without bashing each other.

 

El Diablo is not a "Yes man." If his belief on what is right corresponds to the rules on this site, so much the better, as far as he is concerned. He is entitled to like the rules.

 

Renegade Knight is not "spewing garbage," he is expressing his opinions, which differ in many cases from the rules on this site. He is entitled to do so.

 

And both of you are subject to the Forum Guidelines, as am I. Follow them. Me, I'm getting an aspirin and packing for my trip.

Sorry KA. I get carried away at times.

 

Enjoy your trip.

 

El Diablo

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Everyone here is capable of posting intelligent opinions without bashing each other.

 

El Diablo is not a "Yes man." If his belief on what is right corresponds to the rules on this site, so much the better, as far as he is concerned.  He is entitled to like the rules.

 

Renegade Knight is not "spewing garbage," he is expressing his opinions, which differ in many cases from the rules on this site.  He is entitled to do so.

 

And both of you are subject to the Forum Guidelines, as am I.  Follow them.  Me, I'm getting an aspirin and packing for my trip.

Thank you. That is what I was trying to point out before I was so rudely rebuffed.

 

Good luck on your trip, KA. I read about what Criminal has planned for you over on the NW forums, and I envy you! Sounds like fun! :unsure:

Sparky, As much as you and I may disagree. I didn't mean to rudely rebuff you.

 

El Diablo

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The guidelines go into about maintainable distances and about if you cache regularly in such distances, but the fact is that "regularly" is not defined and can many something different between 2 people. Then you have someone who has no finds that can place a cache anywhere and there's no history of where they cache or how far away they cache. Who knows if it's near them? These types of things contradict themselves and spins the wheels.

 

As far as a "yes man"....... :unsure:

Wow, talk about a one trick pony! Must EVERY thread be about vacation caches with you?

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Mopar, cut it out. Pony images are associated with CO Admin and thus your choice of words is doubly insulting to Woodsters.

El Diablo, thanks for clarifying that you meant to rebuff Sparky, not rudely rebuff him. There's a difference.

Sparky, you envy me for voluntarily going into the mountains with someone who wants to see me crash over the edge of a cliff, and probably has the means to bring it about? Ha.

Sept1c Tank, it is cartoon avatar day. Did you not get the memo?

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The guidelines go into about maintainable distances and about if you cache regularly in such distances, but the fact is that "regularly" is not defined and can many something different between 2 people. Then you have someone who has no finds that can place a cache anywhere and there's no history of where they cache or how far away they cache. Who knows if it's near them? These types of things contradict themselves and spins the wheels.

 

As far as a "yes man"....... :unsure:

Wow, talk about a one trick pony! Must EVERY thread be about vacation caches with you?

:lol: You always seem to say what I'm thinking.....that's scary! :lol:

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Mopar, cut it out. Pony images are associated with CO Admin and thus your choice of words is doubly insulting to Woodsters.

El Diablo, thanks for clarifying that you meant to rebuff Sparky, not rudely rebuff him. There's a difference.

Sparky, you envy me for voluntarily going into the mountains with someone who wants to see me crash over the edge of a cliff, and probably has the means to bring it about? Ha.

Sept1c Tank, it is cartoon avatar day. Did you not get the memo?

:lol::unsure::lol:

 

Have a good trip KA, and be sure to pack your parachute!

No worrys about cliffs then.

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If the Constitution can be amended, then why not the 'guidelines'? On the other hand, let's not see the 'guidelines' turn into what legislation, supposedly based on the Constitution, has turned our legal system into.

 

I also think the current 'guidelines' could be tightened up, explained better (especially to new cachers) and gathered together in ONE easier to find spot.

The guidelines are collected in ONE spot here. They were rewritten in November solely for purposes of clarification and expansion of what is meant - just as you suggest. If additional suggestions can improve their clarity, we're all ears. May I suggest that you send specific drafting changes to Hydee? Thanks.

Ok, I'll bite. Let's start with you showing just how easily that link in your post is to find. I went to the main page and found no link there. Then I went to the 'About' tab and tried there. Nope, no link there either. The only place I can get to that page from is your link. How easy is that for a newer cacher to find?

 

Edit: I finally found it. You have to go into the 'About' tab, then 'Guide to placing your 1st cache' and there is a link in there to 'The Guidelines'. Doesn't seem too easy, especially for a new cacher.

 

Also: If I remember right in the 'Guide for finding your 1st cache' there is NO mention of even logging a find on this site- it says to email the owner that you have found it. There are other things also, these are just two off the top of my head.

 

It is those kinds of things that could be tweaked.

Edited by Corp Of Discovery
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yes. we need more and more rules. the stupider the better. i propose that all new cache finds be accompanied by a photo of you finding the cache while hopping on one foot. in case you have fewer than two useable feet, any picture of a fully dressed mountaineer or scuba diver sitting on your lap at the cache location will do nicely.

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picture of a fully dressed mountaineer ... sitting on your lap at the cache location will do nicely.

So, as a "fully dressed mountaineer" (I'll leave the fully undressed mountaineer to NudeCacher) I have to figure out how to sit on my lap (as opposed to my, uhm, six, to use military jargon) and then take a picture. Hmmm... Where is Mork when you need him? :unsure:

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<<SNIP>>

 

Don't draw your battle lines so dadgum sharpy. You may want some help if suddenly you realize we agree on something down the road. Politics and bedfellows and all that.

narcissistic

 

adj : characteristic of those having an inflated idea of their own importance [syn: egotistic, egotistical, self-loving]

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<<SNIP>>

 

Don't draw your battle lines so dadgum sharpy.  You may want some help if suddenly you realize we agree on something down the road.  Politics and bedfellows and all that.

narcissistic

 

adj : characteristic of those having an inflated idea of their own importance [syn: egotistic, egotistical, self-loving]

You were listed in that community leader thread right? I can see why. Good job. Keep up the good work.

 

Edit: Harrald: If you would so kindly step off your throne of judgemet and at least post something related to the topic to bury your insults in, it would go a long ways towards an intelligent conversation. Refraining from your post would of also gone a long ways but your personal dislike is probably too much for you to ignore.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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<<SNIP>>

 

Don't draw your battle lines so dadgum sharpy.  You may want some help if suddenly you realize we agree on something down the road.  Politics and bedfellows and all that.

narcissistic

 

adj : characteristic of those having an inflated idea of their own importance [syn: egotistic, egotistical, self-loving]

Pot meet kettle. :unsure:

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If the Constitution can be amended, then why not the 'guidelines'? On the other hand, let's not see the 'guidelines' turn into what legislation, supposedly based on the Constitution, has turned our legal system into.

 

I also think the current 'guidelines' could be tightened up, explained better (especially to new cachers) and gathered together in ONE easier to find spot.

The guidelines are collected in ONE spot here. They were rewritten in November solely for purposes of clarification and expansion of what is meant - just as you suggest. If additional suggestions can improve their clarity, we're all ears. May I suggest that you send specific drafting changes to Hydee? Thanks.

Ok, I'll bite. Let's start with you showing just how easily that link in your post is to find. I went to the main page and found no link there. Then I went to the 'About' tab and tried there. Nope, no link there either. The only place I can get to that page from is your link. How easy is that for a newer cacher to find?

 

Edit: I finally found it. You have to go into the 'About' tab, then 'Guide to placing your 1st cache' and there is a link in there to 'The Guidelines'. Doesn't seem too easy, especially for a new cacher.

C of D, for what it is worth, the guidelines page is linked in places where it applies the most I suppose. Rather than putting links all over the site it sort of appears to be in the most needed and logical places. On the main page right at the top middle in one of the first paragraphs it says "New to Geocaching?" and then below that it gives you a link to the "Hiding Your First Geocache" web page. As you mentioned, it is linked from the "About Geocaching" left navigation lined page too of course. Then, when you do get around to typing up the cache page, you would click the link on the left navigation that says "Hide & Seek A Cache". On the left of this page it talks about seeking a cache and on the right it discusses hiding a cache. The first paragraph there says "Please make sure to obtain permission from the landowner or land manager and read the guidelines for reporting a cache prior to placing your geocache." The guidelines are linked there. After you type up your cache page, at the bottom there is a check box that says "Yes. I have read and understand the guidelines for listing a cache." There is a link there to the guidelines there too. These links just seem to be where they are applicable.

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<snip>

C of D, for what it is worth, the guidelines page is linked in places where it applies the most I suppose. Rather than putting links all over the site it sort of appears to be in the most needed and logical places. On the main page right at the top middle in one of the first paragraphs it says "New to Geocaching?" and then below that it gives you a link to the "Hiding Your First Geocache" web page. As you mentioned, it is linked from the "About Geocaching" left navigation lined page too of course. Then, when you do get around to typing up the cache page, you would click the link on the left navigation that says "Hide & Seek A Cache". On the left of this page it talks about seeking a cache and on the right it discusses hiding a cache. The first paragraph there says "Please make sure to obtain permission from the landowner or land manager and read the guidelines for reporting a cache prior to placing your geocache." The guidelines are linked there. After you type up your cache page, at the bottom there is a check box that says "Yes. I have read and understand the guidelines for listing a cache." There is a link there to the guidelines there too. These links just seem to be where they are applicable.

Yes, I do realize that all of those links exsist. The link KA had was to, what looks like to me, the most complete set of guidelines for hiding a cache, yet it is not that easy to find. I don't really think there is much that does need to be done, just some fine tuning like I have mentioned. I am mainly thinking of things that would make it easier for a new cacher coming here for the first time.

 

Note: edited quote to save space.

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