Finding Those Oldies

[+Black Dog Trackers]

A lot of us here are fascinated with the older survey marks. Not to say that we don't look for the new ones too, but those really old ones are just a bit more special.

 

Here is a technique for finding the really old ones. I haven't actually used it to pick a mark to go after, but I did some poking around with the data and it was quite interesting.

 

Before moving on to the technique itself, to use it you will need the NGS' DSWIN program. To get it, first go to the NGS main page and select "download software". Select DSWIN and download it to your PC.

You will also need a PC spreadsheet program.

 

1. Pick a county.

 

2. Get a county archive from the NGS. Go to the NGS Datasheet Page and select ARCHIVED DATASHEETS, and then YEARLY_ARCHIVES. In the subsequent screens, choose your state and county. Choose the "PC unzipped" radio button, and hit the Download File button.

 

3. On your PC, start up DSWIN. In it, click on File, then Disk, and select the file you downloaded in the previous step.

 

4. At this point you can click on any PID and get a window with its full NGS datasheet, but we need to move on to the data analysis. Click on File, and then "Save as...". Ignore the "Save as type:" dropdown window and in the Filename box, type in a filename like junk.txt and click the Save button.

 

5. Now it gets tricky. The OUTPUT FORMAT window should appear and select DSSELECT Format and hit OK.

 

6. Now, select the fields you want by clicking in the "Available" column, thereby moving each one over to the "Selected column". I suggest:

PID

DESIGNATION

POS_SRC

MONUMENTATION

ALL REC_DATE

The first and last of these are necessary for this technique. The designation sometimes contains a date, so that's useful too. The POS_SRC tells whether the horizontal coordinates are Scaled or Adjusted; and this may affect your choices. The Monumentation tells what kind of thing you'll be searching for. All the ones that start with the letter D are a disk. The complete list of the Monumentation code and what each one means is in the Hippopotamus file, in Appendix A.12 Monumentation (Marker) Code. Don't hit OK yet.

 

7. Before hitting the OK button in the FSelect window in DSWIN, in the Output area, click in the checkbox for "Single Line Only". Also, select the vertical bar "|" character in both the "Desc Delim" and "Line Delim" dropdown boxes. Now hit the OK button.

 

8. DSWIN will have made your file that you named in step 4. Import this file into a spreadsheet program, using the following guidelines (these are Excel examples, other spreadsheets will use different terminology but will do the same things). In the import wizard, select "Delimited" and hit Next. In the Delimiters box, select Other and put a vertical bar "|" in the box, and hit Next. In the Step 3 window, the first column will be already selected. WHILE holding down the shift key, click on the word "General" in the rightmost column and then in the Column data format box, click on "Text", so that all the columns are "Text" (even though many are really dates). Move the slider down through the file some and see if any new "General" boxes appear, and if they do, click on the "Text" radio button again. Click Finish.

 

9. To get all the column sizes the necessary size, click in the box before all the column letters and above all the row numbers and then double click on any column border. Select the entire spreadsheet (Control-A) and select Data and then Sort. Select the first 3 columns that have dates in them and complete the sort.

 

10. View the results. Be sure to remember to look down toward the bottom of the spreadsheet where the sorting starts again when the first date is "UNK".

[+jeff35080]

I'm also embarassed to say how I find my old ones I just download an entire county then open it with text editor and then search on the word 'history' and just keep hitting enter until I find one with a date that intrigues me

 

I did write a perl script to do basically the same thing that would allow me to search within a given date range but I lost it after a HD crash and just never got back around to writing it again.

Edited June 29, 2004 by jeff35080

[+YeOleImposter]

I'm also embarassed to say how I find my old ones I just download an entire county then open it with test editor and then search on the word 'history' and just keep hitting enter until I find one with a date that intrigues me

 

I did write a perl script to do basically the same thing that would allow me to search within a given date range but I lost it after a HD crash and just never got back around to writing it again.

I load the datasheets into GSAK by way of BMGPX and then sort by date! Too Easy

 

Then I go and look for marks that have no 'placed-date' to see if these are old ones since some do not have the date monumented.

[+Black Dog Trackers]

So far, the only program I've seen that can display every type of benchmark data element in a linear record is DSWIN. I find that in looking for the old stations, the Adjusted vs. Scaled data element is good to have. The ones that are scaled are probably hopeless, since the landmarks are probably gone. The monumentation type is something that's important to me because I am specifically looking for disks and other non-intersection stations. When all the recovery dates for each PID are shown, you can find which stations are both old and either unreported or not reported for several decades.

[+RatFace]

A lot of us here are fascinated with the older survey marks. Not to say that we don't look for the new ones too, but those really old ones are just a bit more special.

 

Here is a technique for finding the really old ones. I haven't actually used it to pick a mark to go after, but I did some poking around with the data and it was quite interesting.

 

Before moving on to the technique itself, to use it you will need the NGS' DSWIN program. To get it, first go to the NGS main page and select "download software". Select DSWIN and download it to your PC.

You will also need a PC spreadsheet program.

 

1. Pick a county.

 

3. On your PC, start up DSWIN. In it, click on File, then Disk, and select the file you downloaded in the previous step.

 

4. At this point you can click on any PID and get a window with its full NGS datasheet, but we need to move on to the data analysis. Click on File, and then "Save as...". Ignore the "Save as type:" dropdown window and in the Filename box, type in a filename like junk.txt and click the Save button.

 

5. Now it gets tricky. The OUTPUT FORMAT window should appear and select DSSELECT Format and hit OK.

 

6. Now, select the fields you want by clicking in the "Available" column, thereby moving each one over to the "Selected column". I suggest:

PID

DESIGNATION

POS_SRC

MONUMENTATION

ALL REC_DATE

The first and last of these are necessary for this technique. The designation sometimes contains a date, so that's useful too. The POS_SRC tells whether the horizontal coordinates are Scaled or Adjusted; and this may affect your choices. The Monumentation tells what kind of thing you'll be searching for. All the ones that start with the letter D are a disk. The complete list of the Monumentation code and what each one means is in the Hippopotamus file, in Appendix A.12 Monumentation (Marker) Code. Don't hit OK yet.

 

7. Before hitting the OK button in the FSelect window in DSWIN, in the Output area, click in the checkbox for "Single Line Only". Also, select the vertical bar "|" character in both the "Desc Delim" and "Line Delim" dropdown boxes. Now hit the OK button.

 

8. DSWIN will have made your file that you named in step 4. Import this file into a spreadsheet program, using the following guidelines (these are Excel examples, other spreadsheets will use different terminology but will do the same things). In the import wizard, select "Delimited" and hit Next. In the Delimiters box, select Other and put a vertical bar "|" in the box, and hit Next. In the Step 3 window, the first column will be already selected. WHILE holding down the shift key, click on the word "General" in the rightmost column and then in the Column data format box, click on "Text", so that all the columns are "Text" (even though many are really dates). Move the slider down through the file some and see if any new "General" boxes appear, and if they do, click on the "Text" radio button again. Click Finish.

 

9. To get all the column sizes the necessary size, click in the box before all the column letters and above all the row numbers and then double click on any column border. Select the entire spreadsheet (Control-A) and select Data and then Sort. Select the first 3 columns that have dates in them and complete the sort.

 

10. View the results. Be sure to remember to look down toward the bottom of the spreadsheet where the sorting starts again when the first date is "UNK".

2. Get a county archive from the NGS. Go to the NGS Datasheet Page and select ARCHIVED DATASHEETS, and then YEARLY_ARCHIVES. In the subsequent screens, choose your state and county. Choose the "PC unzipped" radio button, and hit the Download File button.

 

I am trying to go step by step here, but I can not find what folder the data is downloaded too. errr.....

[+Colorado Papa]

In looking back at the Archived_Datasheets , I came across one I had updated last year that has some interest. This mark is very obvious as you enter City Hall. Read what NGS said. With the modified description, perhaps next time they won't miss it.

 

JK0210'DESCRIBED BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1935

JK0210'AT COLORADO SPRINGS.

JK0210'AT COLORADO SPRINGS, EL PASO COUNTY, AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF

JK0210'KIOWA STREET AND NEVADA AVENUE, AT THE SOUTH ENTRANCE OF THE CITY

JK0210'HALL, AND IN THE STONE WALL. A STANDARD DISK, STAMPED COLORADO

JK0210'SPRINGS 1934.

JK0210

JK0210 STATION RECOVERY (1983)

JK0210

JK0210'RECOVERY NOTE BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1983

JK0210'COULD FIND NO EVIDENCE OF MARK OF ANY KIND AT THIS LOCATION.

JK0210

JK0210 STATION RECOVERY (1997)

JK0210

JK0210'RECOVERY NOTE BY US POWER SQUADRON 1997

JK0210'RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION.

JK0210

JK0210 STATION RECOVERY (2003)

JK0210

JK0210'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2003 (TWS)

JK0210'DESCRIPTION SHOULD REPLACE THE WORDS AND IN THE STONE WALL. WITH AND

JK0210'IN THE SOUTH END OF THE WEST STONE WALL ABOUT 3 FEET ABOVE STREET

JK0210'LEVEL.

[+Spoo]

Look at the description for this one that I am going after tomorrow, Saturday. PF1173. Note the Telephone lines !!!!! I have plotted and calculated this as a 7-8 mile hike. I hope to gain a FTF and a FTR since 1910. Wish me luck.

 

Documented History (by the NGS)

1/1/1910 by USGS (MONUMENTED)

DESCRIBED BY US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY 1910 A HIGH, BALD MOUNTAIN RIDGE ABOUT 5.0 MI SW. OF WEST BETHEL. STATION CAN BE REACHED BY DRIVING TO FRED L. ORDWAYS PLACE, THENCE TO A POINT ABOUT 2.5 MI ABOVE, WHENCE A WELL CLEARED PATCH LEADS TO SUMMIT. NEAR THE SUMMIT IS A CABIN BUILT BY MR. ORDWAY AND SUPPLIED WITH STOVE, COOKING UTENSILS, WATER FROM NEAR SPRING AND TELEPHONE CONNECTIONS. STATION MARK, A STANDARD DISK SET IN SOLID ROCK. REFERENCE MARK, AN OLD COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY DRILL HOLE WITHIN A CHISELED TRIANGLE, DISTANT 2.2 FT, N 28 DEG 43 MIN W.

[+Muzikman]

Look at the description for this one that I am going after tomorrow, Saturday. PF1173. Note the Telephone lines !!!!! I have plotted and calculated this as a 7-8 mile hike. I hope to gain a FTF and a FTR since 1910. Wish me luck.

 

Documented History (by the NGS)

1/1/1910 by USGS (MONUMENTED)

DESCRIBED BY US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY 1910 A HIGH, BALD MOUNTAIN RIDGE ABOUT 5.0 MI SW. OF WEST BETHEL. STATION CAN BE REACHED BY DRIVING TO FRED L. ORDWAYS PLACE, THENCE TO A POINT ABOUT 2.5 MI ABOVE, WHENCE A WELL CLEARED PATCH LEADS TO SUMMIT. NEAR THE SUMMIT IS A CABIN BUILT BY MR. ORDWAY AND SUPPLIED WITH STOVE, COOKING UTENSILS, WATER FROM NEAR SPRING AND TELEPHONE CONNECTIONS. STATION MARK, A STANDARD DISK SET IN SOLID ROCK. REFERENCE MARK, AN OLD COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY DRILL HOLE WITHIN A CHISELED TRIANGLE, DISTANT 2.2 FT, N 28 DEG 43 MIN W.

I wonder if Mr ORDWAYS could cook you up some grub on your hike up

 

[+PFF]

NEAR THE SUMMIT IS A CABIN BUILT BY MR. ORDWAY AND SUPPLIED WITH STOVE, COOKING UTENSILS, WATER FROM NEAR SPRING AND TELEPHONE CONNECTIONS.

 

The individual setting the mark displays WAY too much knowledge about the cabin and its contents. I'm sure he and his group had Ordway's permission to make themselves at home! Hopefully, they reimbursed him for the phone calls they made.

 

Paul

[+Black Dog Trackers]

RatFace -

I can not find what folder the data is downloaded to

That depends on aspects of your computer. I suggest downloading again and while you do it, write down the filename, or part of the filename and then search (click on Start, then Search if you are on a PC) for the filename in your computer.

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

Not as Old as some of my finds but I have been trying to find this one and another for a while now.

It pays to check all the mapping programs available.

I just found a new one that I have just started working with that gives decimals to

5 places.

GPS TRACKMAKER

GF0611 H 9

[+Neweyess]

RatFace -

I can not find what folder the data is downloaded to

That depends on aspects of your computer. I suggest downloading again and while you do it, write down the filename, or part of the filename and then search (click on Start, then Search if you are on a PC) for the filename in your computer.

I'm having a similar problem after step #2. What happens is it doesn't download to any file of any name. It simply opens the data in the browser.

 

Neweyess

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

RatFace -

I can not find what folder the data is downloaded to

That depends on aspects of your computer. I suggest downloading again and while you do it, write down the filename, or part of the filename and then search (click on Start, then Search if you are on a PC) for the filename in your computer.

I'm having a similar problem after step #2. What happens is it doesn't download to any file of any name. It simply opens the data in the browser.

 

Neweyess

 

Neweyess,

 

After you click download and the data appears on your screen, click on the 'file' button and choose "save as". Choose a file name (I try to use the county name) and a folder (I use 'My Documents'), then change the 'Type' of file from 'webpage' to 'text' and hit save.

 

Hope this helped,

 

John

[+4leafclover]

Look at the description for this one that I am going after tomorrow, Saturday. PF1173. Note the Telephone lines !!!!! I have plotted and calculated this as a 7-8 mile hike. I hope to gain a FTF and a FTR since 1910. Wish me luck.

 

Documented History (by the NGS)

1/1/1910 by USGS (MONUMENTED)

DESCRIBED BY US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY 1910 A HIGH, BALD MOUNTAIN RIDGE ABOUT 5.0 MI SW. OF WEST BETHEL. STATION CAN BE REACHED BY DRIVING TO FRED L. ORDWAYS PLACE, THENCE TO A POINT ABOUT 2.5 MI ABOVE, WHENCE A WELL CLEARED PATCH LEADS TO SUMMIT. NEAR THE SUMMIT IS A CABIN BUILT BY MR. ORDWAY AND SUPPLIED WITH STOVE, COOKING UTENSILS, WATER FROM NEAR SPRING AND TELEPHONE CONNECTIONS. STATION MARK, A STANDARD DISK SET IN SOLID ROCK. REFERENCE MARK, AN OLD COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY DRILL HOLE WITHIN A CHISELED TRIANGLE, DISTANT 2.2 FT, N 28 DEG 43 MIN W.

what was the outcome of this search?