Two Finds -- One Hide

[+Zinnware]

Give me a break!

Ask Dave Ulmner what he thinks about hiding a cace without finding one. If this rule was applied to geocacing, then we would never have a cache to find.

http://www.todayscacher.com/archives/may04/people.html

 

http://zinnware.com/HighAdv/Geocaching/mos...r_notables.html

 

Zinnware

Edited July 21, 2004 by Zinnware

[shadango]

Placing a box 100 yards into the brush with no obvious entry point is not fun to go looking for. Placing one two feet from the trail out in the open is not fun either. Make me stretch a bit, but make it reasonable.

 

Just wanted to comment on this aspect, as a newbie myself, with only 31 finds.....

 

I did a cache over the weekend that fit description #1....in the middle of brush with no apprant entry point....But ya know what?? I enjoyed the bejeezuz out of that one! It made me think harder....

 

True, it is cool when there is a path leading right to a cache location, but isnt that almost like a big sign saying "HEY! I'M IN HERE!!" I know to look for signs of people having been in a spot, and that is how I have found many of my finds...the traffic pattern gives you the clue....But there have been a couple where I guess thebrush gre in or it hadnt been visited for awhile etc, and THOSE were the memorable cache finds, to me....

 

I also did a couple of the "two feet from the trail" deals...not al ot of challenge there, but still enjoyable, as I take my 5 yearo ld with me...the easy ones balance out the tougher ones.....

 

THEN, there was another from the weekend.....It was a few feet off teh trail and there were paths leading around it but it was in an area where you woudl think "No way it could be there!"

 

Guess what...it was! I get your point though, make it a good hide.....I agree....but while I might consider a hide pretty good (being a newbie) you might think it was lame.....I guess there are levels within this game...

 

I just placed my first hide

 

sulfer spring cache

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...94-62c4e81cc761

 

and the FTF told me it was a good hide.....so hopefully I dont disappoint too many folks.... Once I get some feedback on this one I plan on placing another.....its a rush to see someone finding your cache and logging a good find!

 

shadango

[CoyoteRed]

An interesting hunt and location is nice, but the most important things, IMHO, for a new cacher to know is use a quality container. A sturdy container is a must. It doesn't have to be an ammo can, but I'm finding most people can get them and they are the best bang for the buck. Failing that a quality rubbermaid or LnL will do. (Just had a dream last night that I put my walking stick through one of those cheap storage containers. Greaaaat! )

 

I attempted to write a newbie's guide to hiding their first cache. It's fairly well rounded, but need polishing. Educating the new cache hider is the key, not making them find some caches so they hide more of the same.

[+briansnat]

Give me a break!

Ask Dave Ulmner what he thinks about hiding a cace without finding one. If this rule was applied to geocacing, then we would never have a cache to find.

http://www.todayscacher.com/archives/may04/people.html

 

http://zinnware.com/HighAdv/Geocaching/mos...r_notables.html

 

Zinnware

Daves cache had food in it and was placed on private property, without permission .

[lowracer]

Daves cache had food in it and was placed on private property, without permission .

And he wasn't even a member of geocaching.com at the time, so it was one of those rogue wild-west cache types.

[koz]

Let's face it, at its basic level geocaching is not a complex game. Doing a good job of hiding a tuperware container in the woods requires little more than a willingness to do so. Experience, while it can be helpful, isn't a requirement.

hear, hear!...come on folks; it ain't rocket science!

[SCP-173]

Mere Hours after finding my very first cache some friends and I hide our first cache. All we had was a really old Magellan, so until I got a better GPS the coordinates were a little off, but can that really be blamed on me having only 1 find? People still found it and had fun. Limiting new cachers is an awful idea. Maybe you should be more concerned with the cachers with 100+ finds who consistantly put pill bottles deep in the woods.

 

Cody's First Cache

 

And furthermore, I'd rather go out and find an exposed cache with coordinates that're 50 feet off that will no doubt be stolen the next day then sit at home and watch TV. You put a flaming bag on a mountain top and I'll find it...

Edited July 21, 2004 by Vargseld

[+JohnnyVegas]

It seems obvious to me that these people are not forum readers either. I have only 25 finds right now and will be placing my first cache next weekend but I've had enough finds to figure out how others hide and rate thier own caches. I understand how people who are new to geocaching could be overly excited to participate in all aspects of the game but I feel there should be a minimum find before placing or atleast some correspondance between approvers and people with few finds to get a better feel if the person hid it properly.

But if you make them find say 25 before they can hide one, then the first one they hide will be hard to find.

[+drat19]

I love this game. I want the Ozarks to be a place where fellow geocachers from all over the states will come and hunt our hidden treasures and leave remembering WOW!! that was a great time!! A cache on the side of the road isn't much of a good time  . Let's try to keep the integrity in this game we ALL seem to enjoy.

 

Jeepers

AMEN! I made the same point in this document I published to my local caching brethren in my area (although it's applicable to any area, which is why I published it more broadly):

 

<shameless plug>Dave's Note to Local Hiders</shameless plug>

 

-Dave R. in Biloxi

Edited July 22, 2004 by drat19

[+Team Perks]

Educating the new cache hider is the key, not making them find some caches so they hide more of the same.

CR, you hit upon an interesting point.

 

A lot of the most unusual and creative caches I've seen were placed by people who didn't have a lot of caching experience.

 

Out of 1000+ finds, three of them stick out in my mind as my absolute favorites. One of them was placed recently by several long-time, highly experienced cachers. But the other two? Well, The Chamber of Secrets was placed by someone who had 14 total finds at the time. Silver & Gold was placed by someone who hadn't logged ANY cache finds at the time.

 

Perhaps they weren't spoiled by finding dozens upon dozens of lamppost hides and were able to think outside the box because they hadn't yet gotten stuck inside the box?

 

Food for thought.

[+drat19]

Perhaps they weren't spoiled by finding dozens upon dozens of lamppost hides and were able to think outside the box because they hadn't yet gotten stuck inside the box?

 

Food for thought.

Bulls-eye, PP. My whole point on the "regions getting PROLIFERATED" crusade. Can I get an AMEN?!?

 

-Dave R.

[+Team Perks]

Bulls-eye, PP. My whole point on the "regions getting PROLIFERATED" crusade. Can I get an AMEN?!?

Provided that "density" is not being equated with "proliferation"...I'll give you that "AMEN."

[+Laserman]

Give me a break!

Ask Dave Ulmner what he thinks about hiding a cace without finding one.  If this rule was applied to geocacing, then we would never have a cache to find.

http://www.todayscacher.com/archives/may04/people.html

 

http://zinnware.com/HighAdv/Geocaching/mos...r_notables.html

 

Zinnware

Daves cache had food in it and was placed on private property, without permission .

. . . and he dug a hole to partially bury it. Maybe he should have gone and found a few before hiding it.

Edited July 22, 2004 by Laserman

[+drat19]

Bulls-eye, PP.  My whole point on the "regions getting PROLIFERATED" crusade.  Can I get an AMEN?!?

Provided that "density" is not being equated with "proliferation"...I'll give you that "AMEN."

OK, I meant "PROLIFERATED with "just any ol' place with no thought as to whether the location will have any value except to give numbers ho's another stat" type caches", as opposed to "DENSE with LOTS of WELL-CHOSEN locations for caches, so the even if you're a numbers ho you can actually get some enjoyment or value out of the locations OTHER THAN just the stat".

 

How's that? Still got an AMEN?!?

 

-Dave R.

[+Team Perks]

OK, I meant "PROLIFERATED with "just any ol' place with no thought as to whether the location will have any value except to give numbers ho's another stat" type caches", as opposed to "DENSE with LOTS of WELL-CHOSEN locations for caches, so the even if you're a numbers ho you can actually get some enjoyment or value out of the locations OTHER THAN just the stat".

 

How's that? Still got an AMEN?!?

 

-Dave R.

Okay, I affirm my previous "AMEN."

[+briansnat]

Out of 1000+ finds, three of them stick out in my mind as my absolute favorites. One of them was placed recently by several long-time, highly experienced cachers. But the other two? Well, The Chamber of Secrets was placed by someone who had 14 total finds at the time. Silver & Gold was placed by someone who hadn't logged ANY cache finds at the time.

 

Perhaps they weren't spoiled by finding dozens upon dozens of lamppost hides and were able to think outside the box because they hadn't yet gotten stuck inside the box?

 

My point exactly. By setting an arbitrary number of finds before one can place a cache, you can take a novice filled with great ideas and poison him by making him find 20 Walmart micros, or Gladware drive and dumps first.

Edited July 22, 2004 by briansnat

[+Eswau]

Another No-Find / One Hide scenario

 

After I had been caching for a year or so, my wife was with me when we visited a Travel Bug Hotel about two hours from our house. At the time there was not one anywhere near us and she expressed an interest in having one near us. Well, I really wasn’t interested in placing a Travel Bug Hotel, so she went and created a user name and put one out near us, and started 2 Travel Bugs. She had been with me on many finds and has attended a couple of Geoevents, but has never bothered logging anything separate from me. So if you look at her profile, she has 0 finds and 1 hide.

 

E

[+WeightMan]

I thought this thread had died a natural death only to find it brought back to life. Oh well.

 

Just a note that the one cache that really yanked my chain has now been found and the coordinates were off by about 300 feet. It turns out to be a fairly easy find. I have no idea why the hider could not get better coords, but they were waaaaayyyyy off. The owner changed the terrain rating after a note or two about bushwhacking required, but has not seen fit to change to coordinates to match those found by the team finding the cache. I believe that the FTF was likely with the hider when it was hidden. All subsequent finders have used the updated coords.

 

We have learned quite a bit about hiding caches since Dave Ulmer hid the first one. There are suggestions on the gc.com site about getting good coordinates. Finding several caches shows nOObs how to hide the box so that it is not trashed. Remember also that the first cache was soon trashed by someone or something. That is why Un-Original Stash was hidden. We must learn from what has gone before or we will continue to re-invent the wheel every time we place a box in the woods. Can people with few finds hide great caches? Certainly, but the signal to noise ratio is very low.

 

Edit: Changed last word from high to low.

Edited July 23, 2004 by WeightMan

[Tahosa and Sons]

My first hide 09/26/2001

My first find 10/03/2001

 

Its not the number of finds that make you a good planter! But some imagination and creativity and throw in some difficult terrain for the final spice and you have a good cache.

[+Larry.s]

geez, since I'm a n00b with only 9 finds maybe I should disable the three I have placed because I jumped into the hiding part of the game too quick and obviously made errors.

1. I forgot to put the pencil in the micro. Found it in my fishing vest when the FTF made note of it. (went out the next morning and put it in).

 

2. Must have rated it too high. Both people have found it pretty easy although I doubt it will ever be muggled by anything except a coyote.

 

3. I guess my Kidding Around is just downright too easy. Next time I'll put the kid friendly ones out where the 6ft tall grass is.

 

What was I thinking?

 

1. I remember why I forgot the pencil. Had to cut one in thirds so it would fit. Did this right before I left and stuffed it in my pocket. When I got to the hiding spot I had a brainstorm to put the film canister inside a little larger pill bottle for extra protection and while doing so I forgot to pull the stubby pencil out of my pocket.

 

2. I used the Geo rating system.

 

3. I do read the forums and I've seen where a lot of people include their kids. Thought I would do one that kids could find easily enough in a small park near the house where there are no other caches.

 

What else was I thinking? Well, I didn't want my first couple of hides to be so hidden that no one found them. That would deflate my newfound interest more than this thread has. I also thought I would do some placing in new areas that people might enjoy seeing. God knows there's enough of them in Nose Hill Park.

 

Did I jump into the hiding part too soon? You tell me.

[+briansnat]

I have 85 hides and 250+ finds (and another 50 DNF's) so I think I've got a bit of experience, but I still make mistakes.

 

Some things I've done (some of them recently):

 

Forgot to leave a pencil in the cache.

 

Posted coordinates for a cache somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, when it was supposed to be in NJ (not sure how that got by the approver).

 

Listed a cache before it was placed.

 

Placed a cache in a major poison ivy patch because I didn't notice it when I placed it in Feb...and all my maint visits were in the spring and fall when the stuff wasn't noticable.

 

Forgot to put a logbook in a cache.

 

Underrated the difficllty by a few stars.

 

Overrated the difficulty by a few stars.

 

Placed a cache in a rotting tree stump that fell apart after 5 finds, completely exposing the cache.

 

And probably more that I just don't remember. But none of these occurred with my first hide, or second or even 10th.

[+drat19]

I also thought I would do some placing in new areas that people might enjoy seeing. God knows there's enough of them in Nose Hill Park.

Nose Hill Park was a highlight of my trip to Calgary last year! I was SO glad that the caches there gave me the excuse to visit this Calgary wonder, one I surely would have missed if not for caching! (seriously) You can view some of my photos from Nose Hill and elsewhere nearby here.

 

Now having said that, obviously you're a newcomer who "got it" fairly quickly. You're also in an area that is populated with a good number of TERRIFIC caches in great locations - Calgary hasn't been bombed with lamppost/dumpster/side-of-road micros like a lot of other areas, so that those types of hides become the examples that newcomers base their own hides on.

 

If you based your early hides on caches you found, you had a good set of examples from which to base. If you just had the "right idea" from the get-go...well, more power to ya!

 

There you go....

-Dave R. in Biloxi, Miss., USA

Edited July 24, 2004 by drat19

[+The Blind Acorn]

I know what you mean. this person is local to me and they have NO finds and 8 hides! WTF is up with THAT? I don't know why any of them got approved with zero finds.

if you read their profile, the log finds under individual names....

 

 

Did you ever consider emailing the person and offering helpful hints on hiding? When I was new at hiding, I didn't know alot, so my first cache needed some alteration. After some time, I received serveral helpful hints from area cachers. I'm proud to say I've met most of them now and I've learned alot from them.

 

Be helpful rather than critical!!!

Edited July 25, 2004 by H8Tix

[+Wild Thing]

My edit: Rant removed. I was awfully tired from last night after finding a well-kept cache at a powerful memorial.

 

I am a newbie to this sport, but have a darn good idea how to place a good cache, not just because I've seen a few, but because I can extrapolate from there. I'll place my first one when I'm out of this walking cast and can reach the unique locations that will provide a quality experience for others while satisfying my own desire for quality.

 

As others have pointed out so clearly, one needn't have found 20 or 100 or any other threshold number of caches in order to place one!

 

Another point: I worked on sat nav receivers a long time ago (they were rack-mount then which gives you an idea of how long ago) and have a pretty good idea of how they work. If you're not a rocket scientist (or at least an engineer), then I'd be willing to bet that you haven't a clue whether your device is accurate or not. All you really know is that it is repeatable with respect to someone else's receiver.

 

Off the soapbox...

Edited July 26, 2004 by Wild Thing

[+briansnat]

If you based your early hides on caches you found, you had a good set of examples from which to base.

 

Or a bad set of examples depending on what area you live and which caches you found.

[+drat19]

If you based your early hides on caches you found, you had a good set of examples from which to base.

 

Or a bad set of examples depending on what area you live and which caches you found.

Sadly, Brian, while it's true that a lot of cachers will use those bad examples as guides for what "not to do" when they place their first caches, it's also true that many others will not realize that's "bad", and will instead proliferate the problem, with the mindset of "Oh, I guess this is how the game works, I think I'll hide a few of these too to help people get their stats, and I'll get some of those cool "Found it" Emails, too...neat-o!"...and the receipt of those Emails all the time willl spur them to hide even more, because the praise feel so good - maybe even, say, 101 of them?

 

Trust me, I've seen it.

 

-Dave R.

Edited July 26, 2004 by drat19

[Keystone]

I know what you mean. this person is local to me and they have NO finds and 8 hides! WTF is up with THAT? I don't know why any of them got approved with zero finds.

if you read their profile, the log finds under individual names....

 

 

Did you ever consider emailing the person and offering helpful hints on hiding? When I was new at hiding, I didn't know alot, so my first cache needed some alteration. After some time, I received serveral helpful hints from area cachers. I'm proud to say I've met most of them now and I've learned alot from them.

 

Be helpful rather than critical!!!

May I please ask everyone to calm down. A few folks missed the joke back in June when it was posted, and it's happening again. In his post, Mopar was illustrating his point -- that you CAN'T tell by "find count" -- by citing his OWN account for shared hides as an example. If you read the profile for the "MoHo" username very carefully, you'll see that Mopar and GeoHo are the two geocachers who share this account.

[+briansnat]

If you based your early hides on caches you found, you had a good set of examples from which to base.

 

Or a bad set of examples depending on what area you live and which caches you found.

Sadly, Brian, while it's true that a lot of cachers will use those bad examples as guides for what "not to do" when they place their first caches, it's also true that many others will not realize that's "bad", and will instead proliferate the problem, with the mindset of "Oh, I guess this is how the game works, I think I'll hide a few of these too to help people get their stats, and I'll get some of those cool "Found it" Emails, too...neat-o!". Trust me, I've seen it.

 

-Dave R.

I agree. Most people tend to hide the kind of caches they find. Luckily in my region, most of the early hiders placed some great caches, so when I and others came along later we had excellent examples to follow. But in the areas that are saturated with hundreds of lame, log only micros, the newbs will probably do the same if they've found a bunch before hiding their first.

Edited July 26, 2004 by briansnat