Jump to content

My Gun Saved My Life On A Cache Hunt


GeoSar

Recommended Posts

Unless it would just make them strike blindly, I don't see a downside to carrying pepper spray for snake encounters...

The downside is that you risk being bitten or being immobilized yourself if the wind is blowing the wrong way. If you're in a situation you can't escape, as described here, I'd rather have a lethal weapon.

 

If you can escape, then you don't need either (why harm the snake at all).

 

I carry a Glock 23 and will probably downsize to a Kahr 9mm since the 23 is kind of bulky in a fanny pack.

I have the Kahr PM9 - it's very light and easy to carry. Highly recommend it!

I carry a VERY small Kel-Tec .32 cal. It's very small, lightweght, and carries 7 rounds. Good for backpacking..

Link to comment

As far as I'm concerned, that's just another GOOD snake...a dead one.

 

I'm an active cop, and I actually once "drew down" on a man approaching me with a snake in his hand. I told him that I was only going to shoot the snake, but that he might get hurt, so he needed to get the hell away from me with that thing.

 

Here in Middle Tennessee, we get rattlers, copperheads, and cottonmouths...I never cache without both a stick AND a gun. Usually a Sig P380, but sometimes a Glock 22. As a cop, I can't afford a 1911...anyone out there want to give me the deal of a lifetime?

Edited by airmetro
Link to comment

My last several cache finds were in Geosar's area in locations which state (currently) that it is illegal to carry a gun into the area. (This of course doesn't mean HE was in that particular location when he found the snake.)

 

If I followed his advice and carried a gun with a proper permit to conceal with the intent to protect myself and properly concealed it, would I be alright if a forest ranger were to question me? Does a permit to carry a concealed weapon allow people to go into areas posted as "closed" to those carrying guns in his area?

 

If not, then I'll stay with the walking stick. With good fortune, I might later post how a stick saved my life. Or how marking the coordinates of where I parked saved my life, or how the recorded trail saved my life by allowing me to track back along a trail I had lost.

 

Every day doing something sensible saves our lives.

Link to comment
I did an internet search on rattlesnake bites and two sources said they account for about 2-4 deaths per year in the U.S. I don't carry a gun, but what I would have done is waited for it to strike, and when it did, I would have quickly reached around and grabbed it by the tail and slung it like a whip and cracked its head on a rock. :blink:

Good luck, do you know how fast those things strike?

Link to comment
I did an internet search on rattlesnake bites and two sources said they account for about 2-4 deaths per year in the U.S.  I don't carry a gun, but what I would have done is waited for it to strike, and when it did, I would have quickly reached around and grabbed it by the tail and slung it like a whip and cracked its head on a rock.  :blink:

Good luck, do you know how fast those things strike?

He probably has reactions like a cat. ;)

Link to comment
I did an internet search on rattlesnake bites and two sources said they account for about 2-4 deaths per year in the U.S. I don't carry a gun, but what I would have done is waited for it to strike, and when it did, I would have quickly reached around and grabbed it by the tail and slung it like a whip and cracked its head on a rock. :P

I couldn't find it on the internet, but there was a story several years ago about a PGA Tour golfer who was waiting in the fairway to take his shot on a course in AZ, when he saw a lizard on a rock. He thought it would be cool to get a picture :), so he had his caddy take it. He grabbed the lizard by the tail and held it up...briefly...until it swung around and bit his thumb! :) Swelled up real big and he had to withdraw from the tournament!

Link to comment
If I followed his advice and carried a gun with a proper permit to conceal with the intent to protect myself and properly concealed it, would I be alright if a forest ranger were to question me?  Does a permit to carry a concealed weapon allow people to go into areas posted as "closed" to those carrying guns in his area?

It all depends on the State and the area in question (State and federal gun laws are mind boggling in their complexity).

 

For example, in New York (which has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation), there's a prohibition on carrying loaded firearms in a vehicle (intended to prevent roadside "hunting"), but the law makes an exception for those who have a valid NYS pistol license (permit to own and carry a handgun).

 

So...you'll have to check out the specific law in question - if the law is cited where posted, look it up and see if it makes any exceptions for licensed handguns!

Link to comment
My last several cache finds were in Geosar's area in locations which state (currently) that it is illegal to carry a gun into the area. (This of course doesn't mean HE was in that particular location when he found the snake.)

 

If I followed his advice and carried a gun with a proper permit to conceal with the intent to protect myself and properly concealed it, would I be alright if a forest ranger were to question me? Does a permit to carry a concealed weapon allow people to go into areas posted as "closed" to those carrying guns in his area?

 

If not, then I'll stay with the walking stick. With good fortune, I might later post how a stick saved my life. Or how marking the coordinates of where I parked saved my life, or how the recorded trail saved my life by allowing me to track back along a trail I had lost.

 

Every day doing something sensible saves our lives.

Depends on where you live, and your personal values.

Here in CT there are parks that forbid firearms. The usual posted fine for violating that is $50. A person with a CT concealed weapon permit does not legally have to notify a law enforcement officer of the weapon (note I said legally; not that that may be the best course of action) and also by law a concealed weapon must duh be concealed. So, unless you NEED your gun, there is no way you are going to get fined, and if you are in a situation where you NEED to draw a gun, it better be life threatening. In that case, what's $50 compared to your life or the life of a loved one?

Link to comment
Are you serious? You bring guns as protection against snakes? <_< You bring guns when hiking? :lol:

A gun is a tool.

You might as well have said, "You use a hammer to nail wood together? :blink: You bring a hammer to a barn-raising? :lol: "

 

Now if someone starts cracking other people in the head with a hammer - or threatening to - that's when there is a problem.

Link to comment

Doctors:

a. The number of physicians in the US is 700,000.

b. Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year is 120,000.

c. Accidental deaths per physician is 175. (US Dept. of Health & Human Services).

 

Gun Owners:

a. The number of gun owners in the US is 80,000,000.

b. The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is 1,500.

c. The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .0000188.

 

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

 

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

 

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets out of hand. As a public health measure, I have withheld the statistics on lawyers for fear that the shock could cause people to seek medical attention.

Link to comment
Are you serious? You bring guns as protection against snakes? :rolleyes: You bring guns when hiking?  :rolleyes:

A gun is a tool.

You might as well have said, "You use a hammer to nail wood together? :huh: You bring a hammer to a barn-raising? :D "

 

Now if someone starts cracking other people in the head with a hammer - or threatening to - that's when there is a problem.

Too late:

 

Police fear serial hammer killer stalks London

 

LONDON, Aug 21 (Reuters) - Police are investigating whether a serial hammer killer is targeting women in London after a French woman was bludgeoned to death in circumstances similar to other attacks.

 

Emilie Delagrange, 22, was found with a serious head injury lying near a cricket pitch in the southwest suburb of Twickenham on Thursday night. She died shortly afterwards.

 

The attack bore similarities to three other assaults in the neighbourhood in the past two years, all of which left female victims with severe head injuries.

 

A London police spokeswoman said the Delagrange investigation was being helped by officers from a team that probed the nearby murder of student Marsha McDonnell last year.

 

"The possibility that this was linked to other attacks is an important line of inquiry, but we are keeping an open mind," she said.

 

McDonnell, a 19-year-old gap-year student, was bludgeoned to death in the early hours of Feb. 4, 2003, close to her home after taking the bus back from a night out with friends.

 

A 17-year-old boy who was arrested last March in connection with the murder is being held in a secure mental unit, but has not been charged.

 

Delagrange, who had been living and working in Twickenham, was killed as she walked home, also having taken the bus back from a night out.

 

Police said other similar attacks have taken place on women in the area, although not all victims were killed.

 

A month before the McDonnell murder, a 17-year-old girl survived serious head injuries from an attack in nearby Strawberry Hill, and in April this year a 34-year-old woman was attacked on Twickenham Green, where Delagrange died.

 

A few weeks after McDonnell was killed, a male 18-year-old was attacked nearby but escaped unhurt. He said the weapon he was struck with was a "hammer-like" tool.

 

Detectives are still trying to trace Delagrange's mustard coloured handbag and mobile phone.

Link to comment
Doctors:

a. The number of physicians in the US is 700,000.

b. Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year is 120,000.

c. Accidental deaths per physician is 175. (US Dept. of Health & Human Services).

 

Gun Owners:

a. The number of gun owners in the US is 80,000,000.

b. The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is 1,500.

c. The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .0000188.

 

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

 

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

 

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets out of hand. As a public health measure, I have withheld the statistics on lawyers for fear that the shock could cause people to seek medical attention.

A-HEM!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Link to comment
Are you serious? You bring guns as protection against snakes? :rolleyes: You bring guns when hiking? :rolleyes:

Where I live we have wild feral hogs living near most trails and parks (outside of the city parks of course).

 

They have these little white things on the sides of their heads called tusks, and they weigh several hundred pounds and are known to be bad tempered. You bet your booty I am bringing a gun when I hike or cache in these areas.

 

I was unprepared on one hike and of course we ran into a pack of the buggers, we had to run for it (after hiking 1 hour to get to the cache site)... so we had 2 hour hike and a DNF! :huh:

Link to comment

Don't ya just love statistics, especially from a joke email being passed around. :rolleyes: Don't want a debate, just making sure it is all quoted properly;

 

As of 1998 (all sources indicate it has risen significantly since) add to the numbers given above;

 

Suicides per year 17,424

Homicides 12,102

non-fatal injuries in excess of 200,000

 

"...of 626 shootings in or around a residence in three U.S. cities revealed that, for every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides (Kellermann et al, 1998)."

 

Source:

http://medlib.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIA...NS/GUNSTAT.html

Edited by baloo&bd
Link to comment

This is one of those topics where I have quite a bit a personal experience so i guess i will chime in.

 

I am a responsible gun owner, with many hours of official and "unofficial" training. I have a Tennessee Firearms Carry permit and I carry a firearm whenever it is legal for me to do so. I am not a hunter although I do enjoy target shooting and trap and skeet. I have carried for six years and have never in that time drawn in anger, although i have been in situations where I could have needed it at any moment. Just because you have a gun, you do not necessarily have to use it.

 

In 1995, I was bitten by a rattlesnake and while I survived it was an incredibly unpleasant experience. I am 6'3" tall and weighed somewhere over three hundred pounds at the time, I got a full shot of venom. It took me six hours to get out of where i was and to the hospital. By the time I got there, I collapsed in the ER and had to be carried back for treatment. I was conscious the entire time, but could no longer control my body. Thirty minutes after they shot me up with steroids I was back on my feet. The doctor felt that in another half an hour I would have gone into cardiac arrest and they would most likely not have been able to help. If I had been carrying a weapon at the time I could have probably avoided being bitten in the first place.

 

I carry because it is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Link to comment
Don't ya just love statistics, especially from a joke email being passed around.  :rolleyes:  Don't want a debate, just making sure it is all quoted properly;

 

As of 1998 (all sources indicate it has risen significantly since) add to the numbers given above;

 

Suicides per year 17,424

Homicides  12,102

non-fatal injuries in excess of 200,000

Actually, the stats for 2001 are readily available on the CDC website: www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars

 

For all ages/races/gender there were 101,537 unintentional deaths. Of those only 802 were firearm related, or about 0.8% of the total.

 

I'll argue suicides stats don't matter. If someone wants to commit suicide, they will use whatever means available. Suicide rates in many countries with strict gun control are much higher then the US (reference).

 

Same thing with violent crimes. Many countries with strict gun control still have a higher violent crime rate. Even here in the USA, Washington DC currently has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation (a normal citizen may not keep functional firearm in the city), yet it has the highest murder rate in the nation.

 

I didn't take the time to tabulate the non-fatal injury stats, but I'm willing to bet they are probably along the same lines.

 

[EDIT]

Ok, it was actually pretty easy to come up with nonfatal stats on the CDC website once I played with the advanced options. In 2001, there were 29,729,475 reported nonfatal injuries in the US.

63,012 (nowhere NEAR the 200,000+ number mentioned above) or 0.2% of those were firearm related. Perhaps even more interesting, if you just look at unintentional firearm injuries (accidental shootings) there were 17,696 or less then 0.06% of all reported injuries.

Edited by Mopar
Link to comment

May I remind everyone that there is a thread in the off-topic forum in which you are welcome to discuss the larger issues of gun ownership, Second Amendment rights, the impact of guns on society, and so forth. Posts to this thread are considered on-topic only if they relate specifically to carrying or using a gun while they are hiking/geocaching. Thank you.

Link to comment
I have to wonder if the snake shooters whould be so quick to pull the trigger if they were confronted with a stray dog protecting her pups. Just like the dog, a snake is not aggressive; it strikes to defend itself. Most people would give the dog a wide berth and go on their merry way.

If you are going to go shooting snakes instead of walking around them, you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun. People like that give responsible gun carriers a bad rap and create anti-gun sentiment.

However, in the situation described in the first post of this forum doesn't make it sound like he had much of a choice.

Link to comment
I have to wonder if the snake shooters whould be so quick to pull the trigger if they were confronted with a stray dog protecting her pups. Just like the dog, a snake is not aggressive; it strikes to defend itself. Most people would give the dog a wide berth and go on their merry way.

If you are going to go shooting snakes instead of walking around them, you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun. People like that give responsible gun carriers a bad rap and create anti-gun sentiment.

However, in the situation described in the first post of this forum doesn't make it sound like he had much of a choice.

Good point. His situation was a bit more precarious than most who kill snakes.

Link to comment

I legally carry a gun everywhere but work. It's a tool, just as was mentioned before. It's better to have it and never need it, than to need it and not have it. I don't talk about having one often because it's one of those topics that polarize people. Some people have mentioned they are upset that people would carry while hiking or caching. I had to put money and effort into being able to legally carry when and where I want. Handling a firearm is serious, and should be treated as such. I wouldn't question the man who used his to defend himself against a rattlesnake. If he felt it was necessary, I wasn't there, and I take his word for it. There have been many reports this year of large wild cats stalking and attacking humans, and I'm not going to trust a hiking stick against a cougar. IMO, hiking WITHOUT a gun is a lack of preparation. It's another tool, and is not to be feared, but treated with care and respect, just like a sharp kitchen knife, a framing hammer, or a Honda Civic. It's not the gun you need to be afraid of, it's the person with the gun, and if that person is going to go homicidal, he's going to use whatever tool he has at hand, whether it be a framing hammer, his Civic or a gun.

Link to comment

just to be accurate, I wanted to say that if you get attacked by a large cat, a gun is likely not going to help you. Most people are caught completely unaware of the cat and have Very Little time to react.

 

My husband is a ranger, and he shared a bunch with me that he learned at a seminar, from a puma expert, and most of what you get in the media is just pure bs and misinformation about cat attacks.

scary stuff, but interesting. Don't hike alone, that is the Best way to avoid cat attacks.

 

and again, I will say that if you are aware and cautious, you should never come within 3 ft of a snake without knowing it. Watch where you are walking and you shouldn't need a gun to take care of snakes.

 

I don't personally care about the gun issue, just that people are knowledgable about hiking with minimum impact, including to wildlife.

 

think about all the rats that had a party after he shot that snake....HPS anyone?

Link to comment
May I remind everyone that there is a thread in the off-topic forum in which you are welcome to discuss the larger issues of gun ownership, Second Amendment rights, the impact of guns on society, and so forth. Posts to this thread are considered on-topic only if they relate specifically to carrying or using a gun while they are hiking/geocaching. Thank you.

OK, I'll bite, where is the off topic forum?

Link to comment
IMO, hiking WITHOUT a gun is a lack of preparation. It's another tool, and is not to be feared, but treated with care and respect, just like a sharp kitchen knife, a framing hammer, or a Honda Civic. It's not the gun you need to be afraid of, it's the person with the gun, and if that person is going to go homicidal, he's going to use whatever tool he has at hand, whether it be a framing hammer, his Civic or a gun.

I don't need a gun to safely hike or cache where I am and I find it odd that someone would indicate that I am less of a prepared person because I choose not to carry one. Besides the lack of a need I can think of other reasons why I would not wish to carry a gun caching that I believe are perfectly valid (I am not listing them because I have no desire to debate them).

 

If you wish to carry a gun caching, that is fine with me. To each his or her own. But please do not insist on belittling those who choose not to. I doubt that was your intent, but that is how it comes across.

Link to comment
May I remind everyone that there is a thread in the off-topic forum in which you are welcome to discuss the larger issues of gun ownership, Second Amendment rights, the impact of guns on society, and so forth.  Posts to this thread are considered on-topic only if they relate specifically to carrying or using a gun while they are hiking/geocaching.  Thank you.

OK, I'll bite, where is the off topic forum?

Only premium members are allowed in the OT forum.

Link to comment
A firearm can protect you from the snakes that you can see.  Snakeproof leggings can protect you from the snakes that you don't see.  They also work great for walking through briers.

Or you can save a bundle and use duct tape! :rolleyes:

 

I agree with SLCDave. Its just another tool in your bag. And just because you see a snake doesn't mean you should shoot it. Its easier to just give it a wide berth. Using a gun should always be a last resort.

 

Its easy to say its not necessary but unless you've been in the shoes of a person that's been bit...

Edited by Doc-Dean
Link to comment
IMO, hiking WITHOUT a gun is a lack of preparation.  It's another tool ...

Yeah, so is a jack hammer and a dump truck. There are many many tools available to each of us. The trick is to choose which tool to carry, based on the probability of having to use it. Why carry a tool if you may not need it 99.9% of the time. And then when you do need it, is it really going to be 100% effective? Those of us that choose not to carry a specific 'tool' may not need it. That doesn't mean we are purposely going out unprepared.

You are more likely to be attacked by a clogged artery than a wild animal. What tool are you going to carry around for that?

Link to comment
May I remind everyone that there is a thread in the off-topic forum in which you are welcome to discuss the larger issues of gun ownership, Second Amendment rights, the impact of guns on society, and so forth.  Posts to this thread are considered on-topic only if they relate specifically to carrying or using a gun while they are hiking/geocaching.  Thank you.

OK, I'll bite, where is the off topic forum?

Only premium members are allowed in the OT forum.

You will hear no further murmurs from the proletariat. I return to my hovel now!

Link to comment
IMO, hiking WITHOUT a gun is a lack of preparation.  It's another tool ...

Yeah, so is a jack hammer and a dump truck. There are many many tools available to each of us. The trick is to choose which tool to carry, based on the probability of having to use it. Why carry a tool if you may not need it 99.9% of the time. And then when you do need it, is it really going to be 100% effective? Those of us that choose not to carry a specific 'tool' may not need it. That doesn't mean we are purposely going out unprepared.

You are more likely to be attacked by a clogged artery than a wild animal. What tool are you going to carry around for that?

 

It sounds like you're describing insurance. Do you have fire insurance? What are the odds that your house will burn down? Do you have flood insurance, earthquake insurance, etc.....

 

Me, I carry a large caliber handgun for insurance against all those wild elephants here in Arizona. Believe me, it works! It keeps those pesky critters away, as I have yet to see one even though I'm prepared. :D

 

I carry a handgun only for protection from the 2 legged variety of snake.

 

John

Link to comment

Yeah, so is a jack hammer and a dump truck.  There are many many tools available to each of us.  The trick is to choose which tool to carry, based on the probability of having to use it.  Why carry a tool if you may not need it 99.9% of the time.  And then when you do need it, is it really going to be 100% effective?  Those of us that choose not to carry a specific 'tool' may not need it. That doesn't mean we are purposely going out unprepared.

You are more likely to be attacked by a clogged artery than a wild animal.  What tool are you going to carry around for that?

Doc-Dean's Self-Angioplasty kit of course!!!

Only $2500 at a Walmart near you.

Link to comment

Yeah, so is a jack hammer and a dump truck.  There are many many tools available to each of us.  The trick is to choose which tool to carry, based on the probability of having to use it.  Why carry a tool if you may not need it 99.9% of the time.  And then when you do need it, is it really going to be 100% effective?  Those of us that choose not to carry a specific 'tool' may not need it. That doesn't mean we are purposely going out unprepared.

You are more likely to be attacked by a clogged artery than a wild animal.  What tool are you going to carry around for that?

Doc-Dean's Self-Angioplasty kit of course!!!

Only $2500 at a Walmart near you.

ROTFLMAO !!! You should patent that idea ...

Link to comment
IMO, hiking WITHOUT a gun is a lack of preparation.

 

I don't need a gun to safely hike or cache where I am and I find it odd that someone would indicate that I am less of a prepared person because I choose not to carry one. Besides the lack of a need I can think of other reasons why I would not wish to carry a gun caching that I believe are perfectly valid (I am not listing them because I have no desire to debate them).

 

If you wish to carry a gun caching, that is fine with me. To each his or her own. But please do not insist on belittling those who choose not to. I doubt that was your intent, but that is how it comes across.

WHOA! I just reread my post, and I don't believe I said anything belittling. If anyone took it that way, I offer my apologies.

 

I stated:

 

IMO, hiking WITHOUT a gun is a lack of preparation.

 

That IS my opinion. I guarantee that if we all looked in each other's wardrobe or hiking pack, the gear would be different. I know people that say not taking 2 flashlights is lack of preparation too. PLEASE don't take it as a personal attack. Maybe you've never been charged by a moose or stalked by a cougar, or come across several acres of marijuana being grown in the mountains (and the people that were growing it). All of these things have happened in the areas I hike in.

 

I also stated that I don't discuss gun ownership much on this board because of the polarized responses that come with it. The only reason I chose to comment on the thread was the person who started the thread was being second-guessed on his actions, and I'd wager none of the people that thought he was wrong were witnesses to the event. He felt his life was in danger, and acted accordingly, and I'm not going to second guess him.

 

Some say if you are paying attention, you won't come within 3 feet of a snake. Well, maybe if you are only walking on established paths. There are many instances I can think of where a snake can be out of sight until it's too late, like heavy brush, leaves, etc.

 

And to the comment:

 

Why carry a tool if you may not need it 99.9% of the time?

 

I've never been stuck out overnight hiking, but I carry extra food and water. Since I've never needed it 100% of the time, is it foolish that I took it, even though it probably weighed me down more that a handgun?

 

That doesn't mean we are purposely going out unprepared

 

Again, maybe not where you hike. I prefaced my answer by stating that it was my opinion, that because where I hike, and for my purposes, it DOES mean that it is a lack of preparation. That is my opinion, and you are entitled to yours, and each of us is free to dismiss the opinion of the other. :D

 

If anyone is offended by something I have said, please don't be. If you don't feel owning and carrying a firearm is appropriate for you, that's fine, but there are those of us that feel that it is well within our rights to do so, and to be labeled as somehow "unsafe" or "careless" just because we do, is misleading.

 

Happy Caching!

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...