My Gun Saved My Life On A Cache Hunt

June 21, 2004

I am alive today because I carry a weapon while Geocaching, I have a carry permit being a former Police officer I always carry my weapon, this weekend I went after a cache in the middle of the forest the Caches was about 50 miles from the nearest hospital and about five miles off a main road on a two track trail, from where I parked the car it was about a 3/4 mile hike into the forest to the cache, as I was walking out from the cache, I stepped over a very large rattler , he struck once and missed just grazing my bdu's then he started to rattle I was standing right over him if I moved he would have struck again, I pulled my 45 acp and shot him 4 times before he uncoiled and died, this snake was huge the largest I have ever seen, I used hollow points and it still took 4 shots to kill him, after I got home my leg was very sore I have a bruise the size of a tennis ball on the side of my knee where his head which was larger then my fist struck my knee and my bdu's have the fang marks in them, he just missed sinking his fangs in me, had I moved he would have struck again because I was standing right over him, but because I had my weapon I was able to dispatch him before he struck again.

GeoSar

Edited June 21, 2004 by GeoSar

2.3k · June 21, 2004

Good Lord, man -- glad you're not a news story today!

Stay safe out there...

4.1k · June 21, 2004

WOW! Did you get a picture of the snake after to go along with this reminder of snakes are out there? Did you take the rattle or see how many buttons it had?

If not, I am still glad you made it out of this confrontation with just a bruise.

Thank you for sharing this experience!

Shirley~

38.2k · June 21, 2004

Rattlesnake bites are rarely fatal, particularly to healthy adults. Not that getting bitten is a picnic...you get very, very sick.

Anyway, does it really taste like chicken?

2k · June 21, 2004

June 21, 2004

Glad this had a happy ending. (If it were me there would have been mention of having to hike out partially naked because my underwear were soiled.)

June 21, 2004

That incident would have given me a heart attack. I've been rattled at before and I did NOT care for it. Never had one try to strike me though... Maybe I shouldn't have read this thread before going caching this afternoon in a local park that has rattlers and I need to go off the main trail a ways, near an area where I saw a large shed snakeskin the other day.... (head gets woozy)

His head was bigger than your fist? :bad:

And yeah, I think rattler tastes like chicken.

1.6k · June 21, 2004

Rattlesnake bites are rarely fatal, particularly to healthy adults. Not that getting bitten is a picnic...you get very, very sick.

Anyway, does it really taste like chicken?

Rattlesnake tastes like alligator, only with hundreds of annoying little fish bones in the meat. Pain in the behind to eat.

1.8k · June 21, 2004

For those of you that don't or can't carry guns on your cache hikes, a good sturdy hiking stick can also be a very effective weapon or tool against snakes. And as an added bonus, your ears won't be ringing for the next two days if you use something other than a firearm to scare snakes away.

7.2k · June 21, 2004

Great to hear you are OK. After an encounter with a rattlesnake I started carrying 3 hollow points and 3 snake shot cartridges in the chamber. It is something to think about. The speed loader had 6 hollow points though.

Edited June 21, 2004 by mtn-man

June 21, 2004

Glad El Diablo is offering to teach how to make hiking sticks! I gotta get mine going!!

Good to hear this had a happy ending.

9.5k · June 21, 2004

Rattlesnake bites are rarely fatal, particularly to healthy adults. Not that getting bitten is a picnic...you get very, very sick.

Anyway, does it really taste like chicken?

Actually it does have a mild taste that could be described as chicken like. A bit boney though and a little chewy.

2.7k · June 21, 2004

Long live the 1911!

Glad you are OK, though... I would have frozen!

5.9k · June 21, 2004

And as an added bonus, your ears won't be ringing for the next two days if you use something other than a firearm to scare snakes away.

LOL, that was my first thought when I read it, your ears must be ringing like hell!

3.9k · June 21, 2004

Glad this had a happy ending...

Not for the snake!

38.2k · June 21, 2004

A few weeks ago Team DEMP and I were hunting some caches and doing quite a bit of bushwacking. On the way back to the car, we encountered this guy crossing the path not far from where we originally entered the woods .

Edited June 21, 2004 by briansnat

2.6k · June 21, 2004

Glad to hear you're alive. How about shooting some dots here and there among your text?

Man, do I have to buy him a new screen now... :bad:

1.8k · June 21, 2004

Been me, my dog would likely have died. Slowest black dog you ever did see, only 3+ years, but he HAS to be IN FRONT. He doesn't usually even see the bunnies.

It's a good story, NOW that it's OVER. Why didn't you just arrest him?

June 21, 2004

It's a good story, NOW that it's OVER. Why didn't you just arrest him?

He gave the snake 3 warning shots - isn't that close enough?

4k · June 21, 2004

Glad to hear you're alive. How about shooting some dots here and there among your text?

Man, do I have to buy him a new screen now...

I think that may possibly be the longest sentence I've ever seen on these forums!

To mtn-man: Don't rely on snake-shot in your weapon. My experience leads me to think all that does is piss them off more. One well-placed hollowpoint is worth 20 snake-shot rounds! Plus, the snake-shot will pack the rifling in your barrel with lead, making the next regular round less accurate, and may lead to some damage to your barrel. After shooting that type of round, make sure you use a good wire brush to clean the rifling grooves.

To the OP: Glad you're ok! I've had a diamondback rattler strike my cowboy boots and get his fangs hung up in my jeans. Had he not gotten hung up, I'm sure he could have struck again before I was able to flee. I still have the fang marks in my boot. My dad was a biologist and looked at the marks. By the measurements he took, he estimated the snake to be 4 to 6 feet long. I managed two or three steps with him stuck in my jeans (maybe it was the flow of urine that made him let go?), and he felt like he weighed 20 lbs!

Edited June 21, 2004 by Sparky-Watts

6.4k · June 21, 2004

Rattlesnake bites are rarely fatal, particularly to healthy adults.

I know this is true for the eastern timber rattler that is common in our local area, but is this true for ALL species of rattlesnake? In my recent travels out west, several people told me the rattlers out there were more venomous then what we are used to.

1.5k · June 21, 2004

For those of you that don't or can't carry guns on your cache hikes, a good sturdy hiking stick can also be a very effective weapon or tool against snakes. And as an added bonus, your ears won't be ringing for the next two days if you use something other than a firearm to scare snakes away.

and it makes it a whole lot safer for anyone else in the area!

4k · June 21, 2004

Rattlesnake bites are rarely fatal, particularly to healthy adults.

I know this is true for the eastern timber rattler that is common in our local area, but is this true for ALL species of rattlesnake? In my recent travels out west, several people told me the rattlers out there were more venomous then what we are used to.

Yup, pretty much all of them are non-lethal if treated properly. Most rattlesnake deaths are a result of an anaphylactic (allergic) reaction, much the same as bee stings can cause for some people (like me). The venom produces an allergen that can stop respiratory function. The venom itself isn't deadly unless you have a particular allergy to it. Who wants to let a snake bite them to see if they're allergic?

2.7k · June 21, 2004

For those of you that don't or can't carry guns on your cache hikes, a good sturdy hiking stick can also be a very effective weapon or tool against snakes. And as an added bonus, your ears won't be ringing for the next two days if you use something other than a firearm to scare snakes away.

and it makes it a whole lot safer for anyone else in the area!

I hope that was meant to be funny and not a troll. :bad:

1.5k · June 21, 2004

I hope that was meant to be funny and not a troll.

Actually, it was neither. It was a serious statement!

June 21, 2004

Rattlesnake bites are rarely fatal, particularly to healthy adults.

I know this is true for the eastern timber rattler that is common in our local area, but is this true for ALL species of rattlesnake? In my recent travels out west, several people told me the rattlers out there were more venomous then what we are used to.

Yup, pretty much all of them are non-lethal if treated properly. Most rattlesnake deaths are a result of an anaphylactic (allergic) reaction, much the same as bee stings can cause for some people (like me). The venom produces an allergen that can stop respiratory function. The venom itself isn't deadly unless you have a particular allergy to it. Who wants to let a snake bite them to see if they're allergic?

Yes the ones out west have a more potent venom (particularly the mojave) but they are still only lethal if you have a reation, as Sparky said. Out here there are a few deaths caused by them in people who didnt have a reaction, but that is because of the deleyed treatment time (I have heard stories of it taking several days to hike out to a road and flag someone down, then a mutiple hour drive to the nearest hospital). In my area, if you need an ambulance, they dont send one, they send a MediVac, because the ambulance ride would be more than an hour, and I live in a residential area. the key t surviving is to 1)not get bit 2)dont be allergic 3)get help fast

also many times rattlesnake bites from an adult snake will be dry bites (no venom) but with babies they always release ALL of the venom they have

1.1k · June 21, 2004

Glad to hear you're OK. Which .45 do you carry? I carry a Glock 23 and will probably downsize to a Kahr 9mm since the 23 is kind of bulky in a fanny pack.

Zack

38.2k · June 21, 2004

I found a few rattlesnake tidbits through Google:

Nationwide, there are over 800 cases of rattlesnake bites reported annually to the American Association of Poison Control Centers. Of these reported bites, only one to two cases per year result in death of the patient. Although complications such as possible blood clotting problems, allergic reactions to treatment, infection and shock may develop, the majority of rattlesnake bites are successfully treated with as little as two to three days of hospitalization.

The Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake is the largest North American snake. Specimens have been captured as a large as 8-feet long and weighing 15 pounds. The snake's 3/4" fangs are capable of penetrating almost any boot. Fortunately this snake is relatively docile.

Although some 50,000 people worldwide die from snake bites each year, very few of these deaths occur in the United States. No one died in 1990, only one in 1991, and just one in 1992. Statistically, Arizona is the most likely state in which to die from snakebite, with Florida, Georgia, Texas, and Alabama rounding out the top five.

Baby rattlesnakes are typically born at the end of July and can bite at birth

Do not apply a tourniquet or tight band. Blood flow must be maintained.
Do not apply cold packs or ice to the skin, as it does not prevent or slow the spread of venom.

Do not consume alcohol, aspirin or anything by mouth.

Do not make incisions over the fang wounds. This only creates a larger wound.

Do not use mouth suction. This only makes the problem worse by contaminated the wound with bacteria from the mouth.

Do not apply pressure dressings.

Even after suffering potentially fatal injuries, venomous snakes are capable of injuring humans. Experiments show that rattlesnake heads are dangerous for 20-60 minutes after decapitation. A sizable proportion of patients admitted for snakebites were injured when handling snakes they presumed to be dead

The mojave rattlesnake's venom is up to 44 times more potent than a diamondback's. It is an agressive snake, but fortunately, it rattles loudly.

Up to 80% of rattlesnake bites are dry; meaning the victim was not injected with venom.

A rattlesnake can strike from about 1/3 to 1/2 of its length

Young men - particularly while intoxicated - suffer a disproportionate number of "illegitimate" rattlesnake envenomations (that is, those that occur when a person voluntarily approaches, or handles the snake).

Edited June 22, 2004 by briansnat

1.5k · June 21, 2004

Young men - particularly while intoxicated - suffer a disproportionate number of "illegitimate" rattlesnake envenomations (that is, those that occur when a person voluntarily approaches, or handles the snake).

Talk about material for the Darwin Awards! :bad: I can't imagine that there would be enough liquor in the world to make me think that picking up a venomous snake would be a good idea!

2.1k · June 21, 2004

Even after suffering potentially fatal injuries, venomous snakes are capable of injuring humans. Experiments show that rattlesnake heads are dangerous for 20-60 minutes after decapitation. A sizable proportion of patients admitted for snakebites were injured when handling snakes they presumed to be dead

Ok, that's just sorta creepy and cool at the same time.

June 21, 2004

Rattlesnake bites are rarely fatal, particularly to healthy adults.

I know this is true for the eastern timber rattler that is common in our local area, but is this true for ALL species of rattlesnake? In my recent travels out west, several people told me the rattlers out there were more venomous then what we are used to.

Yup, pretty much all of them are non-lethal if treated properly. Most rattlesnake deaths are a result of an anaphylactic (allergic) reaction, much the same as bee stings can cause for some people (like me). The venom produces an allergen that can stop respiratory function. The venom itself isn't deadly unless you have a particular allergy to it. Who wants to let a snake bite them to see if they're allergic?

And out west we have what is called a Pygmy rattlesnake...only about 12 inches long, but packs the whollop of the big one.

My husband came down off the stairs from a oil tank battery after checking the oil level, and the minute he stepped on the ground he heard a rattle. Looking around he could not find the snake, but then looked down........he was standing on the head of the snake (the better end to be standing on IF you have come to be on one) so he ground the head into the dirt deep with his boot. He told me when he got home that that was the longest broadjump he had ever made!

Last year was bad...he has 39 more rattles in his collection jar.

Glad to hear you made it without disaster GeoSar.

Be careful out there...

Edited June 21, 2004 by woof n lulu

1.8k · June 21, 2004

Young men - particularly while intoxicated - suffer a disproportionate number of "illegitimate" rattlesnake envenomations (that is, those that occur when a person voluntarily approaches, or handles the snake).

Talk about material for the Darwin Awards! I can't imagine that there would be enough liquor in the world to make me think that picking up a venomous snake would be a good idea!

Yeah, I'd feel A LOT safer if these nut jobs were out shooting snakes with 45s.

1.6k · June 21, 2004

Rattlesnake bites are rarely fatal, particularly to healthy adults.

I know this is true for the eastern timber rattler that is common in our local area, but is this true for ALL species of rattlesnake? In my recent travels out west, several people told me the rattlers out there were more venomous then what we are used to.

One of the great discordances between East and West in the US. I have treated kids in New Mexico who needed Fasciotomies (openings in the hands to allow swelling to expand) for their snake bites. I have seen patients in Florida treated as outpatients. The Florida group has VERY convincing data that rattlesnakes (atleast in SE US) are really not that toxic and they go nuts when you mention the very compelling data from the San Antonio group that says rattlesnake bites are really dangerous and need aggressive therapy.

The data is an example of collecting regional info in an incomplete manner and trying to make generalizations from your incomplete data set.

Rattlers bite for two reasons. 1. To kill something to eat. 2. To make you leave them alone (they only hang with their own kind). The bites for food are filled with venom. The bites from fear may have no venom in them nearly 25% of the time.

The big differences between the two data sets is the subpopulations of rattlers studied and the general nature of bites. Eastern Diamondbacks versus Western, Massauga, and Sidewinders, and people getting nipped at as they walk through the woods versus drunks and children sticking their hands/feet into places they shouldn't.

Rattlers adjust their venom with heat sensitive IR vision circuits that regulate the venom secreted from their glands (complex enzymes are evolutionarily expensive, so they don't waste the stuff.) If their IR vision sees a whole human, they think that the end times are coming and save their venom. If they see your hand, they think its dinner time (so let the digesting begin!).

In the west, rattlers are more dangerous because more people get bit in ways that acrue more poison. Be careful and follow the rattlesnake warnings that get posted, and they are a helpful addition to the environment.

1.6k · June 21, 2004

Rattlesnake bites are rarely fatal, particularly to healthy adults.

I know this is true for the eastern timber rattler that is common in our local area, but is this true for ALL species of rattlesnake? In my recent travels out west, several people told me the rattlers out there were more venomous then what we are used to.

Yup, pretty much all of them are non-lethal if treated properly. Most rattlesnake deaths are a result of an anaphylactic (allergic) reaction, much the same as bee stings can cause for some people (like me). The venom produces an allergen that can stop respiratory function. The venom itself isn't deadly unless you have a particular allergy to it. Who wants to let a snake bite them to see if they're allergic?

Not completely true, rattlesnake bites can be lifethreatening if they bite into a vascular area of the body (face, groin, neck). The venom is a hemotoxin that can cause DIC and vascular collapse if it gets into the central circulation quickly.

1.8k · June 21, 2004

Rattlesnake bites are rarely fatal, particularly to healthy adults.

I know this is true for the eastern timber rattler that is common in our local area, but is this true for ALL species of rattlesnake? In my recent travels out west, several people told me the rattlers out there were more venomous then what we are used to.

Yup, pretty much all of them are non-lethal if treated properly. Most rattlesnake deaths are a result of an anaphylactic (allergic) reaction, much the same as bee stings can cause for some people (like me). The venom produces an allergen that can stop respiratory function. The venom itself isn't deadly unless you have a particular allergy to it. Who wants to let a snake bite them to see if they're allergic?

Not completely true, rattlesnake bites can be lifethreatening if they bite into a vascular area of the body (face, groin, neck). The venom is a hemotoxin that can cause DIC and vascular collapse if it gets into the central circulation quickly.

bigredmed, you sound like a snakeologist, hehehe.

2.1k · June 21, 2004

Rattlesnake bites are rarely fatal, particularly to healthy adults.

I know this is true for the eastern timber rattler that is common in our local area, but is this true for ALL species of rattlesnake? In my recent travels out west, several people told me the rattlers out there were more venomous then what we are used to.

According to park rangers at the Mitchell Caverns in the Eastern Mojave Wilderness in California, the Mojave Green rattlesnake bite can easily be fatal to a healthy adult human. An antidote is needed within several hours to prevent a fatality. At the time we were told about this the only known antidote was at one or more of the Mojave military bases, several hours away. This information is about 5 years old.

June 21, 2004

Don't any of you watch VenomER? They have had two fatalities on the show that were bitten by mojave greens.

June 21, 2004

I've thought about carrying my pistol, just never have, maybe I will...

1.8k · June 21, 2004

I hope that was meant to be funny and not a troll.

What's a troll?

Rattlers adjust their venom with heat sensitive IR vision circuits that regulate the venom secreted from their glands (complex enzymes are evolutionarily expensive, so they don't waste the stuff.) If their IR vision sees a whole human, they think that the end times are coming and save their venom. If they see your hand, they think its dinner time (so let the digesting begin!).

so, you should keep your arms close in and it will only scare you a little?

Edited June 21, 2004 by Robespierre

3.8k · June 21, 2004

Dont have rattler snakes here in the UK, (Apart from in the zoo). So thats why we cant carry guns

4.1k · June 21, 2004

Great to hear you are OK. After an encounter with a rattlesnake I started carrying 3 hollow points and 3 snake shot cartridges in the chamber. It is something to think about. The speed loader had 6 hollow points though.

Just a question and suggestion for mtn-man.

How do you get all those shells into the chamber?

I suggest that you set a piece of sheetrock against an old tree and fire a round or two of snakeshot into it from about 5 feet away. The pattern may surprise you.

A side note here about how far a snake can strike - In reality they can strike at least their full body length!! We have seen them do it before.

John

PS, Shirley suggests you get a gun to put the cartridges in. :bad:

24.7k · June 21, 2004

Dont have rattler snakes here in the UK, (Apart from in the zoo). So thats why we cant carry guns

That's too bad, it's the two legged snakes that are the most dangerouse.

However back on topic. I read ones that the most common way for people to get bit is when you stand in a ring round a snake you just found and mess with it. Later my kids found one while were were camping and us adults all said "It's not a snake it's that bug that sounds similar, if it was a snake you would know" They kept insisting it was a rattler in the bushes. We finally got up walked over and they are right, you WILL know. So circled the bush with the snake in it to deal with it. Then that article occured to me and I about fell over laughing.

The hard part was getting it out of the bush to get rid if it. He was camped out. The only rattle I've seen while caching was asleep. It was asleep when we came looking and it was asleep when we left.

4k · June 21, 2004

It was asleep when we came looking and it was asleep when we left.

Sounds sensible enough. I've never gone out of my way to kill a snake. If at all possible, I will leave the snake alone and make my escape to a safe distance to have a look-see (learned that from my daddy). Also learned from my daddy that snakes can strike at a distance equal to the length of their bodies. Dad had a habit of stopping in the middle of the road to play with all sorts of critters (remember, he was a biologist, and never stopped learning). The only time I've killed snakes was when I got stupid and didn't pay attention to my surroundings, finding out too late that I had no quick escape when the snake decided to strike. I have only killed venomous snakes, rattlers and copperheads. Other snakes, well, I guess I'm more like my dad there, because I'll pick them up and play with them. Yeah, I've been bitten by about half a dozen different varieties of non-poisonous snakes. They sometimes hurt like heck, and will get infected if I don't wash them out, but for the most part, it's just irritating. The worst bite I got was from a full-grown garter snake. They have hundreds of little needle-like teeth, and a lot of them broke off in my skin. Took several hours to get them all out!

June 21, 2004

To the person who asked what type of pistol I have it is a Browning clone made here in Florida, I carry it in the woods because it 's much cheaper if I should for some reason lose it out of the holster, or drop it in the river while boating A friend of mine lost his that way when the cannoe tipped over, I prefer to carry a Glock 30 for every day carry.

I made a lot of mistakes on this cache hunt, I arrived early to meet a group of cachers so I decided to do a short cache( the one I walked over the snake) by my self which is a mistake this is a very large forest and easy to get lost.

second because it was only a short hike I left all my gear canteens first aid kit snake bite kit in the car, after all it was only a short hike

Third I did not note the location long lat of the car, so after I found the cache I got somewhat turned around trying to find my way back to the car, of course I had my trail plot turned of so that did me no good, then I stumbled across the snake so I thought great here I am lost in the woods going to get a snake bite, not to mention I am diabetic so any bite sting injury or whatever is worse for me then it is for most people, I don't like killing I stopped hunting years ago because being a retired Police officer Fighter/Paramedic I have seen enough death, so if I could have got out of the situition with out killing the snake I would have.

Tha National forest here in Florida is Very large and jungle like in many places, you can be 20 yards from the road and not see it,

also when a rattler rattles it sounds more like a loud buzz, I was bush wacking through dense underbrush trying to find my way out to the car, took me an hour,

to get back to the car where everyone was waiting for me,

I didn't take any parts of the snake because a dead snake is a deadly as a live one they can sill bite even if the head is cut off, so I had no desire to touch it.

learn from my stupidity I did!!!

June 22, 2004

Not completely true, rattlesnake bites can be lifethreatening if they bite into a vascular area of the body (face, groin, neck). The venom is a hemotoxin that can cause DIC and vascular collapse if it gets into the central circulation quickly.

That is not completely true either. Some species have hemotoxin such as the Timber Rattler. Some species have a nerotoxin which is far worse than the hemotoxin.

Lucky for us in the NE, our species is the Timber Rattler, which hasn't been responsible for a fatality in most states for decades.

Berserkr

June 22, 2004

Glad you are OK. Just think if snakes struck straight-up. :bad:

I always let the wife poke around the rocks when in snake country.

Some day I may tell her we have snakes on the East side of the mountains.

June 22, 2004

I also had an encounter with a rattle snake. It was small, about 8-10 inches but it was a mean little s**t. Memphis, my 4-legged companion tethered to my waist, walked right over it and the only reason I saw it was because the snake struck out at him. By that time I was standing right over it. It then started striking at me. So if you can picture this...I was hopping from one foot to the other with this snake between my feet striking at one foot than the other, all the time I was shouting "son of a b***h...son of a b***h". I finally managed to get my walking stick around to push it out of my way and it struck my stick and sunk it's fangs in so I was able to shake it off a ways from me. I was up close and personal with that guy and when I got home I looked it up and found out it was a swamp rattler. Whatever, he was mean.

I also had an encounter with a mad squirrel on another cache hunt but I'll save that story for another time!

Jeepers

4.5k · June 22, 2004

Rattlesnake bites are rarely fatal, particularly to healthy adults. Not that getting bitten is a picnic...you get very, very sick.

Anyway, does it really taste like chicken?

Goes great with eggplant.

June 22, 2004

Good in chile too. YUM!

June 22, 2004

My dad almost died from the bite of a diamondback. (Southern California, Yuma/Mexico border.) It was a long time ago, when he was a little boy. They lived out in the country and it took him a while to get to the doctor. To this day, a rattler is the one creature he will kill on sight. Glad I never really pissed my dad off when I was growing up. Almost 70 years later and he still holds a grudge!

My Gun Saved My Life On A Cache Hunt

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