Tb Etiquette At Group Outings

June 20, 2004

what is normal behavior at group outings with tb's? some people were listing all the tb's on the table. i logged the one i took and now it has dissappeared from my inventory cuz one of these multi-loggers grabbed it. :huh:

June 20, 2004

Give it a couple days. After everyone from the event has grabbed it, grab it back and take it to another cache.

June 21, 2004

This is something that you might want to discuss openly at the events where the TBs meet. We had 50+ cachers and 80+ bugs at a recent event and we agreed that only those who take the bugs also log them, otherwise this could have turned into a 50x80 "grabbstasy fest". :huh:

AFAIK everybody accepted that and went with it. But maybe we were just too lazy to write down 80x6 digits and make the grabs... :huh:

1.6k · June 21, 2004

This is an important area that TPTB seems to be unwilling to address. The travel bug is to be logged when you FIND it and when you DROP it. It is not logged when you touched it, handled it at a meeting, saw it on the table, etc.

The flow of email notices from one of these mismanaged events can choke the fastest server. I once got 15 emails on one travel bug that fell into the clutches of a group like this in Utah. 15 emails, the first said I brought it, the last said I placed it, and the 13 in the middle were variations on the "I saw, touched, held it" motif.

Its bad form to log all the bugs at the event as these logs just mess up other people's email inbox.

2.8k · June 21, 2004

What is the real desire to log all TBs? Unless there was something special about 1 of them, such as a milestone TB and folks were marking a milestone at the event, or some geocoin which folks that didn't have a geocoin logged might want to retrieve (and the same for a yellow jeep) to get the icon on their User Stats page, I guess I don't understand what the reason is.

Is there a reason? Does this group somehow celebrate milestone's with TBs as well as caches?

1.6k · June 21, 2004

What is the real desire to log all TBs? Unless there was something special about 1 of them, such as a milestone TB and folks were marking a milestone at the event, or some geocoin which folks that didn't have a geocoin logged might want to retrieve (and the same for a yellow jeep) to get the icon on their User Stats page, I guess I don't understand what the reason is.

Is there a reason? Does this group somehow celebrate milestone's with TBs as well as caches?

It bumps up their find count. The practice is called "counting coups". Its a lame development of the stats system the game is played under. Should be banned for wasting bandwidth.

9.4k · June 21, 2004

There were around 50 travelbugs at my event. I only took one, which I placed a week later.

However, there was one other that I "touched", but it was meant to visit event caches and be logged by all in attendance. That would be the "OCB" or original can of beans that Team 360 rescued from the first cache site.

1.6k · June 21, 2004

There were around 50 travelbugs at my event. I only took one, which I placed a week later.

However, there was one other that I "touched", but it was meant to visit event caches and be logged by all in attendance. That would be the "OCB" or original can of beans that Team 360 rescued from the first cache site.

1. The OCB's mission is to have coup counted on it. That is different. Team 360's inbox may be getting pounded by OCB contact reports, but that is the mission of the travel bug and so anyone who adds this to their watch list knows it going in.

2. CarleenP did you proud with the placement of Saxman Needs to Visit Nebraska. Get here before all the flowers are gone. In a sea of green, to see that many colors is really stunning. Like that patch of scrub brush to the east of the Interstate between Abq and Santa Fe near La Bajada Hill that lights up briliantly green in the spring.

June 21, 2004

It bumps up their find count. The practice is called "counting coups". Its a lame development of the stats system the game is played under. Should be banned for wasting bandwidth.

So, if my bug came into this "feeding frenzy" and 20+ people log my bug to get #s up. What would happen if I deleted all the touchy feely people's logs and only left the picker upper and the dropper's logs? Not from the server/website point of view, but the users.

Shane

June 21, 2004

Isn't it completely up to the owner to ask to please not R-2 this particular bug at the events?

After each Utah event, there may be one or two unhappy owners complaining about too many e-mails. Most of the owners are OK with it though. Maybe chuckling but cool. It is the game and the common goal is to have fun, and everybody has one's own list of fun things, sometimes including TB collecting.

The minority of the bug owners who don't like the practice should just attach laminated notes to their bugs requesting this much.

June 23, 2004

When you distill it all down to the lowest common form....don't you pay $6 so that you can get emails from other cachers? I've had TB's that disappear after the first drop. One of my bugs made it to an event, and I was more than happy to see email from other cachers. I looked at their user page, some of the caches they had hit, etc. If you don't want this, why pay $6 for a trackable tag?

One of the things I enjoy about geocaching, is that there are few real rules. Each participant enjoys the sport in their own way, and it's this flexibility that will keep the sport growing, IMHO. If you like caching for the stats, then log all of those finds, and hoard those travel bug numbers. If you like the hike, then find caches with nice hikes. If you like the challenge of the "find", hunt all level 5 caches. It's this flexibility that has kept us caching. Some days it's about the numbers, some days it's about enjoying the time outdoors.

Just my 2 cents.

1.6k · June 23, 2004

When you distill it all down to the lowest common form....don't you pay $6 so that you can get emails from other cachers? I've had TB's that disappear after the first drop. One of my bugs made it to an event, and I was more than happy to see email from other cachers. I looked at their user page, some of the caches they had hit, etc. If you don't want this, why pay $6 for a trackable tag?

When you get notices like found the TB in blank and moved it to blank, they are fun, when you get 20 that say "I touched, held, saw, was in the same room as, the TB", not so fine.

Difference of opinion.

June 25, 2004

I think it makes it very confusing to the owner and the actual grabber and not the way the game is played. These cachers are only trying to get numbers up by....well for a lack of a better word...cheating.

Jeepers

June 25, 2004

These cachers are only trying to get numbers up by....well for a lack of a better word...cheating.

I didn't log all the travel bugs from a recent event because I didn't see the point, and didn't feel comfortable with it. I didn't log the pocket caches I found either... for the same reason.

I really don't care what other players do. I just want to keep my own numbers accurate.

June 25, 2004

We know that this "grabbing" has been done at some of the events we've attended. Even "encouraged" by some.

We've chosen not to log anything other than our true cache finds and travel bugs that we've found in those caches. Diversity is great - and there will always be differences of opinion. But we've chosen what feels "right" to us. We're not going to worry about the other guy - let him rack up all the finds and tb's that he thinks is necessary - we're comfortable with what we have found. If the other guy is comfortable with his finds - then that's the way it is.

24.7k · June 25, 2004

There were around 50 travelbugs at my event. I only took one, which I placed a week later.

However, there was one other that I "touched", but it was meant to visit event caches and be logged by all in attendance. That would be the "OCB" or original can of beans that Team 360 rescued from the first cache site.

Off Topic:

That OCB was bio degradable after all. So maybe a bio degradable cache is possible.

4.8k · June 25, 2004

IMO, it kind of depends. The usual kind of TB's that I've seen at the three events that I've been to should only be logged by the person that picks them up. On the other hand, I've seen a couple of bugs that were specifically for events and meant to be logged by the participants of the event. Fossilady had a "Magellan Logbook" type thing. From what I gathered, people were supposed to write their thoughts on the event in the logbook and log the TB tags attached. Marky has a couple of TB's/Geocoins attached to his Signature Item book that are meant to be logged by people that attend the event. Marky also has a Moun10bike coin, that I otherwise would never see, except that it was in the Sig Item Book. Of course, it's always polite to ask if that's OK with the TB owner.

June 25, 2004

Diversity is great

You got that right Crazies!!!

We know that this "grabbing" has been done at some of the events we've attended. Even "encouraged" by some.

This is the first time I have seen this "grabbing" done in all the events that I have attended. I didn't know what was going on when I kept losing TB's from my inventory until I started reading the logs on the TB page.

June 25, 2004

I think it's up to the person that is logging all the bugs at the event, going on 100+ finds a day, looking for only the hard to find caches, doesn't do locationless, or whatever else is the way that person plays the game. IMHO, I would rather get 20+ logs that my TB was at an event than no logs because it has gone missing. It wouldn't be hard to spot that the e-mails coming in were from a bunch of people grabbing them at the event. Once you figure that out, you can just delete subsequent "grabbed TB from so-and-so" e-mails without even opening them if it bothers you.

Just my opinion on the matter.

McWeb

June 25, 2004

doesn't do locationless

Lately I have been finding traditional caches on the side of a road, I would

give them a <1 rating ...most of the locationless and virtuals I have done have been harder and more interesting than what these new cachers are putting out.

GC should stick by their criteria of 50 finds before letting one of the newer players put up a cache on the side of the road with absolutely no interest at all.

JMHO

Jeepers

June 25, 2004

What would happen if I deleted all the touchy feely people's logs and only left the picker upper and the dropper's logs?

Well, I think it would delete that bug from their count. I think this is what I will do if any of my bugs come into a 'feeding frenzy'. The TB should only be counted by the actual grabber unless of course it IS one of those that are meant to be logged by all members attending the event. Again JMHO.

Jeepers

June 25, 2004

We've chosen not to log anything other than our true cache finds and travel bugs that we've found in those caches.

I too only log what I truely find and grab and I believe this is the way the game is suppose to be played. I guess each player makes the game as good to them as they want it to be.

I try to enjoy each hunt to the fullest, finding a cache on the side of a road leaves my cup emptier than when I started. When I say side of the road I am not including those rest area stops on the interstates...those are great because it gives me a reason to pull over and stretch my legs where otherwise I would just keep driving. And I have had some interesting finds and encounters at those rest areas including a snake, a mole and an extremely unhappy mother squirrel that was in attack mode.

Guess I am getting a little off topic here, sorry.

Jeepers

June 26, 2004

I think it makes it very confusing to the owner and the actual grabber and not the way the game is played. These cachers are only trying to get numbers up by....well for a lack of a better word...cheating.
Jeepers

Cheaters??? Surely you jest.

I logged the tb's from the last event as did alot of other people, including one person who logged at least one tb, maybe more, and then deleted the logs later. It happened to be my tb that one of those logs was deleted from. It was deleted around the same time these "cheater" comments were mentioned. That came as no surprise and I don't blame them for doing it after I read this thread.

I could care less whether someone grabs my tb at an event and logs it. I liked just having their name as part of the history of my tb. If tb's counted against total finds stats, then I probably wouldn't have even brought mine out at the event and I wouldn't have logged any of those other tb's either because I didn't actually find them in a cache. That's just me.

I also logged a few pocket cache finds at the last event. After I got to thinking about it, the whole idea of pocket caches just doesn't seem right to me. I didn't find any of those pocket caches with a GPSr and so I decided not to count them as finds. I changed them to notes instead. I have decided that pocket caches aren't in keeping with the spirit of geocaching as I perceive it and I won't be logging them as finds. That's just my opinion. But if anyone else wants to log pocket caches, thats fine too.

Then there's the people that log multiple cache finds at events. It was announced at our most recent event that all of the caches at the event were "non-loggable", even though some people logged them all anyway. I chose not to log them because I don't feel as if I need to log a bunch of caches found in nearly the same vicinity and that weren't really hidden per the same guidelines that we use to hide non-event caches with the coords posted on this website. But I still wouldn't call the people who did log them cheaters because that's how they like to play the game.

Also, while we are somewhat on the topic of our last event.......I went to alot of trouble to provide a good cache and to hide it for that event. I even went so far as to hide nearly a mile away from the event area just to make it more of a challenge for everyone. But as soon as it was announced that it was "non-loggable" for the event, hardly anyone even went looking for it. If someone had told me that it was going to be "non-loggable" and that those who don't log multiple event caches weren't going to search for it, I wouldn't have wasted my time. I could have just set up my own cache page for it and let everyone log it seperately. They were quick to grab up all the other loggable caches in the area.

I really had a great time at that event. It couldn't have been any better (except for having electricity...sorry tmac). But after seeing some of the responses in this thread, it kind of put a damper on my memories of that day.

I hope those who attended the last event don't take all this personally. I'm quite offended at being called a cheater for logging a bunch of travel bugs that don't count towards my total cache find count. But I'm also not bashing people that log multiple event caches and pocket caches either. They can do whatever they want. It doesn't affect my cache count at all. But if those same people want to start making an issue about upping numbers because of people logging multiple tb's from an event, then I think we need to take a look as well at those who log pocket caches and multiple caches from events too. Who's cheating who? Who's really trying to get their numbers up? Event and pocket caches affect total stats. Travel bugs don't.

June 26, 2004

....well for a lack of a better word...cheating

Well, Pandybat, as you can read, I couldn't think of a better word for someone who logs a TB grabbed when in fact they did not grab it but just saw it at the event.

I have been to several events and have never seen this 'feeding frenzy' practiced before that doesn't mean it hasn't happened I just didn't see it and it really surprised me that it happened at our event. The fact that it did put a damper on my memories of the day. But no harm done, the frenzy is over and I finally have the TB's I grabbed back in my possession even though they never physically left.

I also chose not to log pocket caches that I have found or caches found at the event although this is practicable at many events, I just chose not to do that now.

Geocaching is a GREAT game/sport and it will stay that way as long as the players try to uphold the integrity of the game. New players coming into the game need to think a little more when hiding a cache. Lately I have found caches that looks as if the hider just threw the container out the window of their car. So far I have found this to be one cacher in particular and what will happen is hardcore cachers like myself will stop looking for caches put out by this fellow. I already do not look for one guys caches because his cache placements were in bad taste and it looks like I will be adding another to my don't bother list.

When hiding a cache I try to bring the treasure hunter to a place of interest, throw in a little history and make the hunt entertaining and than have a treasure at the end of the trail not a box of rocks, which I have found. By doing that I give back to the game and give it and my caches integrity. People want to hunt for my caches. There are certain cachers that I watch and wait for them to hide something because they too put integrity back into this game, right off hand I can tell you any cache hidden by the HairyHillBilly is a must find. He will take you to parts of this country that will absolutely take your breath away and that is not because it is a long hard hike but because it is a place of interest, of history and enjoyment .

GC SHOULD stand by their guidelines and not let a person put out a cache until 50 finds are reached. That may eliminate the bad, not worth the effort caches but than again maybe it wouldn't. I love this game. I want the Ozarks to be a place where fellow geocachers from all over the states will come and hunt our hidden treasures and leave remembering WOW!! that was a great time!! A cache on the side of the road isn't much of a good time . Let's try to keep the integrity in this game we ALL seem to enjoy.

Jeepers

June 26, 2004

I'm slightly confused. What does newbie caches on the side of the road have to do with logging travel bugs at an event?

June 26, 2004

"Two Finds -- One Hide, Why do they do this?": Forum Topic related to newbies hiding caches.

June 26, 2004

I'm slightly confused. What does newbie caches on the side of the road have to do with logging travel bugs at an event?

Got off topic but it seems to be the new comers to the game that are in the 'feeding frenzy' of TB's and I got off on another thread concerning newcomers. Quoting a well known comic....."Excuuussse Meeee!" :mad: :mad:

Jeepers

June 26, 2004

"Two Finds -- One Hide, Why do they do this?": Forum Topic related to newbies hiding caches.

Thanks for the link!

Jeepers

June 26, 2004

it seems to be the new comers to the game that are in the 'feeding frenzy' of TB's

What would you consider a new comer?

Of the people who grabbed one of the bugs you have from the event, [not counting those who have deleted their logs by now] around 3 were newbies.. but 4 were accomplished cachers one caching for almost 2 years and another with 559 finds.

Perhaps the newbies logged the travel bugs because their 'elders' encouraged it.

I know I'm a new comer, I have been caching for less than 3 months and only have 36 finds. [and one hide... oops. ] But will I still be considered a newbie in 2 years or after 200 finds?

June 26, 2004

Just a little more message board history for the event travelbug topic:

I saw some of the "what's the number" type stuff at GeoWoodstock last year.

Visit That Topic Here.

4.4k · June 26, 2004

I think it makes it very confusing to the owner and the actual grabber and not the way the game is played. These cachers are only trying to get numbers up by....well for a lack of a better word...cheating.
Jeepers

Well since the inflection is this way,

This is the first time I have heard it called "CHEATING"

If the issue needs to be addressed then do it, don't inflect things upon others that have no solid basis.

I could go into things that are not being discussed on the same matters with the #'s thing.

It is not about #'s.

I can see why alot of those like that do not talk in these forums very much.

I hope you just may have chose the wrong wording.

June 26, 2004

I didn't log all the travel bugs from a recent event because I didn't see the point, and didn't feel comfortable with it. I didn't log the pocket caches I found either... for the same reason.

I really don't care what other players do. I just want to keep my own numbers accurate.

I've thought more about my innitial post and would like to clarify... while I chose not to log all the bugs on the table, because it didn't fit into my game and because it would take a lot of time... I don't consider it 'cheating' for those that did.

I wouldn't be bothered by a group of cachers logging a TB owned by me, I would enjoy having their names added as a part of the bug history.

I do see how it could be an inconvenience for the one who finally takes the bug... esspecially if they wanted to place it in a cache right after an event.

1.6k · June 26, 2004

I have to agree that logging TB's that you just saw at a meeting is cheating. The game is find the bug, move the bug, and log each event. The game is not log something you saw or held. This is akin to locationless caches that got so over subscribed. The thing with this is worse in that the TB's carry a watch list of people who are interested to see if the TB makes it to its goal. When one of these "events" occurs, it results in dozens of email notices that say nothing other than some person saw it. The resulting email bolus is rude. It ties up bandwidth at GC and it fills up email boxes with garbage messages.

Yeah, we all hate to use mean spirited names (unless we are referring to people we don't like....), but the game is played a certain way. Whether or not this is written down as rules, the practice of the game becomes a de facto rule. The practice of coup counting or "what's the number?" or however you wish to call it is a deviation from the standard accepted practice of the travel bug sub-game. As such its cheating.

Sorry if you don't want to be hard on this, but a rose is a rose, and cheating is cheating. More over, its rude. We all get enough spam, needlessly causing the addition of twenty trivial emails from GC for a bug is not OK.

June 26, 2004

Maybe we need to have another event just to discuss what is and isn't appropriate. (I know, I'm crazy. I can think of ANY reason to hold events. I really like them though..lol)

Everyone has their own way of doing things. I actually enjoy seeing all the tbs at an event. Most of them are really cool. And the gathering around the table gets everyone talking and getting to know each other better. There's nothing wrong with that. People log tbs as part of their history of that tb and I like it for that same reason. But I also understand the logic behind the bombardment of email notifications on some tb owners when their tb is shown at an event and the confusion it causes people new to the game to have so many others grab a tb. For that reason, I may not log tbs anymore. It's confusing enough for newbies to figure out what to do with tbs anyway.

I guess if we aren't going to be "playing fair" by logging tbs, then logging pocket caches and multiple caches from an event ought to be discouraged too, right? They have more impact on stats than tbs do. Some people don't bother to consider that though because they have pocket caches and multiple caches in their logs from events as finds. So yeah.....I have a problem with anyone telling me I am cheating on something when what they are doing is also cheating, whether they are cheating themselves or cheating in the game.

I don't want to see people being forced to play one way or another. Log your tbs, log your multiple finds on a cache. That's how you like to play. That's perfectly fine with me as long as what you are doing doesn't mess with my numbers.

4.4k · June 27, 2004

Well if it is cheating there sure are a lot of cheaters.

de facto,this is still the first time I have heard that this was cheating,if you do not want your bug logged at an event it should have it in it's profile.

I myself like to see my travel bugs at events,and de facto,I dislike those people whom you have asked to do specific things with a TB ignore you.

So really where is the etiquette here?

Have all the one's that I have logged their travel bug e-mail me and I will remove them from my list.

I know exactly what is going on here so you aint gonna beat around the bush on me.

Either make your specific de facto case or move on.

I will deal with it accordingly.

Oh by the way your description of finding it,moving it,well it seems I always do that.

CHEATING IS BREAKING THE RULES

WHERE IS THE RULE ?

I had the #'s from 4 of the YJTB's I got at this event taken and logged from me at the event,

is that not also cheating?

Groundspeak Travel Bugs

A Travel Bug is a trackable item that moves from place to place, picking up stories along the way. Here you can add your own story, or live vicariously through each bug's adventures.

Edited June 27, 2004 by GEO*Trailblazer 1

1.6k · June 27, 2004

Everyone has their own way of doing things. I actually enjoy seeing all the tbs at an event. Most of them are really cool. And the gathering around the table gets everyone talking and getting to know each other better. There's nothing wrong with that. People log tbs as part of their history of that tb and I like it for that same reason. But I also understand the logic behind the bombardment of email notifications on some tb owners when their tb is shown at an event and the confusion it causes people new to the game to have so many others grab a tb. For that reason, I may not log tbs anymore. It's confusing enough for newbies to figure out what to do with tbs anyway.

I guess if we aren't going to be "playing fair" by logging tbs, then logging pocket caches and multiple caches from an event ought to be discouraged too, right? They have more impact on stats than tbs do. Some people don't bother to consider that though because they have pocket caches and multiple caches in their logs from events as finds. So yeah.....I have a problem with anyone telling me I am cheating on something when what they are doing is also cheating, whether they are cheating themselves or cheating in the game.

I don't want to see people being forced to play one way or another. Log your tbs, log your multiple finds on a cache. That's how you like to play. That's perfectly fine with me as long as what you are doing doesn't mess with my numbers.

1. I like seeing our table of Travel bugs at our events as well. I agree, its a conversation starter and comparing missions and directions is often fun. Just don't log every tb on the table just because you saw it. Log the one you brought and the one you take, everyone else there will do the same and the system will work normally.

2. Pocket caches are another new one on me. If they aren't legitimate caches that someone could find the following week, then they are not allowed according to existing rules. Events can have temporary caches that exist for the event, but not on GC. Events can have temporary games that involve a cache that is planned to exist after the event, and then leave the permanent cache behind.

3. Everyone likes to speed, and drink too much now and then, DUI is still illegal. Games have rules and are played accordingly. Just because the player wants to log a jillion TB's and does so by logging every TB at every event they go to, doesn't mean that the game should allow it.

4. These alterations in the game do mess up your stats. If you have a 100 finds, that means something, particularly in a cache poor area. If a player logs 25 "pocket caches", then his 100 don't mean the same thing. If you use your stats as a diagnostic (am I on a typical pace or not), the comparison is not as valid if there is a lot of fudging in your area.

2k · June 27, 2004

Just adding my 2 cents. If it was one of my TB's at an event I wouldn't want everyone logging it.

I would prefer only that the person that takes the Travel Bug logs it.

Edited June 27, 2004 by Eric K

1.8k · June 28, 2004

ONLY LOG THE TRAVEL BUG THAT YOU ACTUALLY TOOK HOME!!!!!!!!!!

4.4k · June 28, 2004

But what if I place my TB or Geocoin in an event and want people to log it at the event,they do not take it home.

I have had several owners write me and say that what I was personally doing with their bug was terrific.

So there are many things not being touched on here.

If you do not want your TB or Geocoin logged at an event ,put it on the TB's or Geocoin's profile. or mission.

I have only seen 1 complaint from 1 person in the many travelers I have found.

That works out to about 99% for,1% against and I have not recieved any e-mail from the 1% yet.

June 28, 2004

I'm with you, GT1. I've never had anyone complain about one of the tbs that I've logged either.

Edited June 28, 2004 by PandyBat

Tb Etiquette At Group Outings

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