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Placing a cache you'll probably never see again


creagerstonefamily

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I´m in an area where noone else has hidden any caches (the nearest are over 500 miles away) and my intention is to hide several all over the region in the hope that with caches to go out and look for, I´ll be better able to rev up some interest in the sport. As and when other geocachers show up in my neck-of-the-woods, some of the more difficult caches for me to maintain will either be "zapped" or offered to a geocacher in that neighbourhood. Just as an explanation, I live in Rio Grande do Sul, southernmost state of Brazil which more-or-less equals Great Britain in area - lots of room to manouver here icon_smile.gif

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quote:
Step 5 - Maintain the cache

 

Once you place the cache, it is your responsibility to maintain the cache and the area around it. You'll need to return as often as you can to ensure that your cache is not impacting the area, and ensure that the cache is in good repair. Once people have visited the cache, inquire about the cache and their opinion of the location. Does the area look disturbed? Are visitors disrupting the landscape in any way? If you have concerns about the location, feel free to move or remove it from the area.


 

I would have to say no.

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Don't do it. What few "rules" there arefor Gecoaching ask you not do this.

Why don't you enjoy caches that have already been placed by local area Geocachers where you are going. Go see some of the areas that only locals know about instead.

Remember if local authorities take issue with your Geocache it could lead to a ban of Geocaching in that park/locale. You'll still be able to place caches in your hometown, but the people who live where you placed a cache will not. Try to think about the people who live in the area first.

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quote:
Originally posted by ScoutingErica:

Wouldn't be a too big problem if you ask the finders of your cache to take care of it by cleaning it, getting a new log, et cetera.

Not placing a cache is something I don't like. You know a nice place for a nice cache, so let people enjoy the cache and its surroundings.


yes, but thats assuming that the locals or any future visitors:

A. know that they are exspected to do upkeep

B.(the really important part) whoever visits it is WILLING to help do maintance. some people get really bent out of shape about this. icon_eek.gif(its a different but related discussion)

 

whack.gif

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So somebody logs that the cache containers is cracked and should be replaced or there needs to be a new log book. Are they supposed to go buy that item and replace it? What about if a couple people state they can't find it and think it's missing. Is one of the previous loggers supposed to keep checking in on the off chance they need to make sure another person's cache is still there?

 

cool_shades.gif ---I will stand out, I am a raven in the snow.

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quote:
Originally posted by CreagerStone Family:

Is it OK to place a cache in an area you'll probably never visit again?

 

I know cache owners are supposed to look after the cache, but 170 miles away from home is a bit of a jaunt for "maintenance". icon_smile.gif


 

What you're really asking is "will unknown people sometime in the future carry a new container, cleaning supplies, a new log book, writing implements, Ziploc Bags, and great trade goods to my cache because I'm not willing to?"

 

The answer to that is "maybe--but not likely."

 

If you must place this cache, then watch its log and archive it should it become water-logged, plundered, go missing, etc. When you can make the 170-mile drive, go and fix the cache, then remove it from the archives.

 

wcgreen

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No, that wasn't what I was asking at all. In fact, it wasn't even for me since I'm not going on that trip.

 

Reading through the logs for various caches shows that this is not really that uncommon.

 

I didn't know that Geocaching was such a selfish sport. I (mistakenly) assumed that it was a kind of global team effort thing.

 

Maybe it's just my Southern upbringing, but I don't find it unreasonable at all to expect someone who has fun using something that technically doesn't belong to them to actually help out a bit by replacing a torn baggie or, gasp, spending a whole dollar on a new log book.

 

It wouldn't bother me in the least to take a few minutes or spend a couple bucks to help someone who went to a lot of work for strangers, but that's just me.

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The rule is not selfish - that's an unfair characterisation.

 

GeoCaching is inherently a community effort - you hide caches, out of the good of your heart - and other's find them. The deal is what you hide, you maintain, so others don't have to do that for you.

 

The librarian at the local library will spend a great deal of time helping me find a book, but she won't read the book aloud to me. That isn't her being selfish - the rules of engagement are just set up that way.

 

Similarly, you place a cache - you maintain it - that's the rule - and you let others find it.

 

That's not selfish, that's how it's set up.

 

Right now, my work has me travel a lot, and I worry about WHEN I could get back to a cache to maintain a broken one. I don't want to archive it again and again, frustrating cachers who would try to find it. That's why I haven't placed any (but one virtual which needs to maintenance). That's because 'those are the rules...

 

Now, if someone is willing to take over the cache for you, great - but I would say that the two of you agree to this before hand, and share in the credit of placing the cache.

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quote:
Originally posted by CreagerStone Family:

 

I didn't know that Geocaching was such a selfish sport. I (mistakenly) assumed that it was a kind of global team effort thing.

 

Maybe it's just my Southern upbringing, but I don't find it unreasonable _at all_ to expect someone who has fun using something that technically doesn't belong to them to _actually help out a bit_ by replacing a torn baggie or, gasp, spending a whole dollar on a new log book.


 

The mistake you made was not assuming that it was a global team effort thing (it is). It was making negative characterizations about an entire group of people based on a few responses, which basically answered your question by referring you to, gasp,abide by one of the few rules of the game.

 

The geocachers I have come across so far are more than willing to bring along extra ziplocks, pencils, log books, loot, etc. I know I do. I'd even venture that those I've come across so far would be willing to maintain a cache remote to you, but not to them. But I'd assume you would want to make arrangements for them to do that BEFORE you place the cache.

 

I think that's the key point other posters are trying to get across. If it can be maintained (by you or someone who agrees to) then place it. If you plan to have maintenance done by cache hunters, then it probably isn't that great an idea to place that cache.

 

"Seek and ye shall find." - God, ????, BC

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Try reading it again, magellan315. In the original message I stated that I already knew that a cache owner was supposed to look after their cache. It's right there in black and white. So the majority of the responses are actually verifying my original thoughts on the subject.

 

That's why the forums are here: to ask questions when you're not sure about something. There aren't any caches around this cool spot and it isn't exactly a travel mecca, so I thought that it would be great for a Geocacher to find anything in the middle of a cache wasteland.

 

Unfortunately, there isn't enough time to try and find a "local" geocacher to help out with the project, so I'll scrap it until next year.

 

I didn't care for the "let someone else do the work" attitude that was being implied and answered sarcastically. My family leaves things better than we find them, if need be. I assume most people in this sport do. Yet that assumption was taken as either laziness or an uncaring attitude on my part.

 

I'll continue to assume that most people involved with the sport are honest and helpful until proven otherwise.

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The other day I searched to see how many caches there are in China. I found 11. Every one of these caches was placed by someone on vacation. Half of these caches are virtual, so that's OK. But, the chance of someone else finding these cache anytime soon is somewhat remote. So, are these caches worthwhile placing? I sort of see these particular caches as little more than a littering of the landscape. Here is one of the lines of description for one of the caches "The cache is made of a 500 ml. water bottle and contains a small souvenir from the Netherlands

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quote:
Originally posted by CreagerStone Family:

Try reading it again, magellan315. In the original message I stated that I already knew that a cache owner was supposed to look after their cache. It's right there in black and white. So the majority of the responses are actually _verifying_ my original thoughts on the subject.


 

It's the "but" after your statement that made me question you:

 

'I know cache owners are supposed to look after the cache, but 170 miles away from home is a bit of a jaunt for "maintenance". '

 

If you know it's true, then you know that the truth of it applies even when it gets in the way of convenience or fun. No "buts" need to be said.

 

wcgreen

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I'm sorry. I thought these boards, specifically this "Getting Started" board, were a place to ask questions.

 

I guess not since apparently, I already knew the answer. I'll just go with my first assumptions from now on and not bother to ask.

 

Hopefully, other people new to the sport won't bother to ask anything, either. Just go with whatever you might think because it's probably right.

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quote:
Originally posted by CreagerStone Family:

I'm sorry. I thought these boards, specifically this "Getting Started" board, were a place to ask questions.

 

I guess not since apparently, I _already_ knew the answer.


 

You did say that you knew the answer--don't place a cache that you cannot maintain or for which you can't arrange maintenance.

 

quote:
I'll just go with my first assumptions from now on and not bother to ask. Hopefully, other people new to the sport won't bother to ask anything, either. Just go with whatever you might think because it's probably right.

 

You asked a question and you got answers. I'm truly sorry that you don't appreciate the answers that you received.

 

wcgreen

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It isn't just a maintenance issue. There may be local rules governing the placement of geocaches that a visiting cacher would know nothing about. Place one in error and you upset the local authorities.

 

As far as asking questions, go ahead ask. Just don't get upset when you get an answer you may not like.

 

I think you got everyone's dander up when you used the word expect. As stated above, many cachers carry extras to help a cache along, but when you expect someone to take care of your cache because you won't, well now you are imposing.

 

Almost without exception, everyone I've met here in the forums and on the trail have been wonderful people. I often refer to cachers as "the nicest bunch of people I have never met." Even the ones that I've had disagreements with here in the forums I would go caching with anytime. But when you start calling people "selfish", anyone, even the nicest among us, can get a little upset.

 

Don't let it spoil you on geocaching or geocachers. You asked a question and you got answers. As you said, that's what these forums are for.

 

geospotter

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quote:
Originally posted by eklund:

The other day I searched to see how many caches there are in China. I found 11. Every one of these caches was placed by someone on vacation. Half of these caches are virtual, so that's OK. But, the chance of someone else finding these cache anytime soon is somewhat remote. So, are these caches worthwhile placing? I sort of see these particular caches as little more than a littering of the landscape. Here is one of the lines of description for one of the caches "The cache is made of a 500 ml. water bottle and contains a small souvenir from the Netherlands


 

Sorry, but what's the difference between a cache that's found once a year (or never) and one that's found once a week? They're both "litter" in the strictest sense. Should caches not found every x weeks be archived? Of course not. icon_eek.gif If there's a 500ml water bottle somewhere in China what's the big deal about that? (now discussing the cache container type and quality of the contents belong in the other threads where people worry about those sorts of things).(no, it's not my cache!)

 

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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quote:
Originally posted by CreagerStone Family:

I'm sorry. I thought these boards, specifically this "Getting Started" board, were a place to ask questions.

 

I guess not since apparently, I _already_ knew the answer. I'll just go with my first assumptions from now on and not bother to ask.

 

Hopefully, other people new to the sport won't bother to ask anything, either. Just go with whatever you might think because it's probably right.


By all means ask any question you want, but if you want to have a temper tantantrum go do it some place else.

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We visited our timeshare in Kauai in September and found 9 of the 11 caches that were all placed, as far as I could tell, by other previous vacationers. We enjoyed finding new areas that we hadn't visited previously, even though this was our fourth trip. So much so, in fact, that we placed our own cache, so now there's 12. We even got an e-mail from someone planning their vacation in Kauai, because it appeared that they might be First Finders on our cache! Kauai is 553 square miles with only 12 caches. In my home area, there are hundreds of caches within a 50 mile radius. Most of the caches in Kauai get visited with far more frequency than some of the local out-of-the-way caches. The closest to seeing other geocachers was on Maui and they were only 30 minutes behind us.

 

If geocachers post problems that they find with a cache, such as a cracked container, another geocacher who is planning to visit that cache will read the logs and know this prior to their visit and have the opportunity to replace the container.

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quote:
If geocachers post problems that they find with a cache, such as a cracked container, another geocacher who is planning to visit that cache will read the logs and know this prior to their visit and have the opportunity to replace the container.

 

The problem here is assuming that someone will take care of your cache. Yeah, some Geocachers do this, bring baggies, containers, et. al. along and will replace them if the cache needs it (and ocassionally have been upbraided by the cache owner for doing so). You put out a cache, it is your responsibility to maintian it. If a local Geocacher is willing to watch over it for you, great. But to ASSUME others will is simply rude and thoughtless. If you want to leave a cache in an area that you don't plan on returning to, at least enlist a local Geocacher to watch over it for you. We're a nice group, you may get some takers.

 

Would you buy a dog, tie him him up in your yard and let the neighboorhood kids play with him, but assume that they are going to feed him too?

 

"Life is a daring adventure, or it is nothing" - Helen Keller

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quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

Would you buy a dog, tie him him up in your yard and let the neighboorhood kids play with him, but assume that they are going to feed him too?


 

Well, it isn't quite the same now is it? No, I didn't think so. Thumbs down for posting a poor analogy. Thankfully, you didn't use a baby as an analogy.

 

I don't think it's rude and I don't assume anything, including that the next cache I found is going to be in perfect shape and well hidden. If no one finds a cache, then it will be perfectly fine. However, if the last person didn't put the lid on tight or didn't hide it well, I don't have much control over that whether I'm a mile away or 2500 miles away.

 

I'm sure that I'm in the minority, but I don't believe that someone who places a cache should take sole responsibility for it. This is a group thing, if you're going to participate, then if a cache is not in good shape, put that in the logs so that people who come along behind you can fix it.

 

I'd rather hide a cache in Kauai and have someone find an area that they might not go to than not hide one at all. There would be NO caches in Kauai if visitors didn't place them.

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quote:
Originally posted by TeeEff:

I'm sure that I'm in the minority, but I don't believe that someone who places a cache should take sole responsibility for it.


 

ok, but do you think the owner should have at least SOME responsibility?

 

this person seems to not even plan to have partial responsibility...(ie: to place a cache in an area you'll probably NEVER visit again)

 

whack.gif

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My point is...

 

that the people of Kauai may not want your caches and it is not up to you or me to decide that they need one.

 

quote:

Well, it isn't quite the same now is it? No, I didn't think so. Thumbs down for posting a poor analogy. Thankfully, you didn't use a baby as an analogy.


 

Actually, it is an excellent analogy. (If you are a guy I applaud you. In one paragraph you achieved multiple sarcasm.)

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quote:
Originally posted by welch:

 

ok, but do you think the owner should have at least SOME responsibility?

 

this person seems to not even plan to have partial responsibility...(ie: to place a cache in an area you'll probably NEVER visit again).gif


 

If a person places a cache in an area that they've visited on vacation, chances are that other people will vacation there as well. We found that finding geocaches in Kauai made our hiking more enjoyable there, just as it has at home. In my example, none of the caches there were placed by locals, but dozens of people have enjoyed finding them. (Correction, apparently two caches were hidden by locals who have since moved off Kauai, so they decided to remove their physical caches and make them virtual caches. At the same time, they also had two caches in Colorado, where they apparently did not live.)

 

Perhaps the cache owner could place a note in their description indicating that this is not a maintained cache and that they are relying on people who are going to be looking for the cache to help maintain it. I don't see how this is any worse than someone who has lost interest, has other obligations, or whatever reason, and simply doesn't maintain their cache anymore.

 

I've e-mailed two owners of local caches who have never replied. In this context it is obvious that they no longer care about their cache or they would have replied to me. Yet, people are still logging finds on the cache and reporting problems with it.

 

I think that sometimes people get hung up on having "ideal" situations, when reality is often less than ideal. Then they pass judgement on others, taking a moral position.

 

So my short answer is, depending on the reason why the cache was hidden in the first place, I don't have any problem with someone taking NO responsibility for it and NEVER planning on visiting it again.

 

Personally, my wife and have been to Kauai every two years for the last 8 years. So we will visit our cache that often. In addition, we have friends who may go every year that could check on it for us, if there was some reason to do so.

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quote:
Originally posted by geospotter:

My point is...

 

that the people of Kauai may not want your caches and it is not up to you or me to decide that they need one.


 

I'm assuming from your reply that you've asked "the people of New England" whether they've wanted the caches that YOU'VE placed?

 

I'm a property owner in Kauai, so I guess that makes me one of the "people of Kauai". And I don't mind. I didn't ask the other residents.

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quote:
Originally posted by TeeEff:

quote:
Originally posted by geospotter:

My point is...

 

that the people of Kauai may not want your caches and it is not up to you or me to decide that they need one.


 

I'm assuming from your reply that you've asked "the people of New England" whether they've wanted the caches that YOU'VE placed?

 

I'm a property owner in Kauai, so I guess that makes me one of the "people of Kauai". And I don't mind. I didn't ask the other residents.


 

You did place the caches on your property, right? If not, did you get permission of the property owners or the property's managers?

 

wcgreen

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TeeEff,

 

I'll agree with you - I don't see what the problem is (especially for foreign (non-US) caches).

 

For more on vacation caches search for the thread - "Placing a cache while on vacation". All the same comments were made (before it got ugly), with no solutions for existing vacation caches. If they're such a threat to the existence of Geocaching, why isn't someone doing something about them?

 

In the end Rule 5 will always be quoted (verbatim). Interestingly, Rule 2 allows placing smelly things (Play-Doh) and water in caches, but check the threads for the number of people who don't accept this rule. You either have rules or you don't.

 

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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Last weekend I was visiting NJ out of state, was doing some caching and replaced the container that had been logged as broken and leaking in someone elses cache. I recalled the last logger mentioned there was a problem so I took a container I had in my trunk that I was going to use in one of my own caches.

 

I just checked and see that the hider originally hid it 7/01 and his last find was 1/02. Obviously this guy has gotten out of geocaching since he's had no activity since last January.

 

So my question is,- Aren't we making a tempest out of a teapot. How many local caches have lost the original owner for maintenance? How much "litter" is really left after it's been plundered? Shouldn't we depend on fellow geocachers for support?

 

Finally, and I wonder, how much of this really has to do with local cachers not wanting outsiders hiding caches in "their turf"?

 

Alan

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If someone else posted this idea, I apologize for wasting your time. I read through all the posts, but after a while they seemed to run together. icon_wink.gif

 

Why not create a Virtual cache at the location called "A Great Place for a Cache." When someone logs it, give them the opportunity to plant a traditional cache there and archive your virtual.

 

I think this would be a great idea especially if you are a wiser, more experienced cacher. It would give new cachers an idea of the kind of locaton caches ought to be placed in and give you the opportunity to act in somewhat of a supervisory role.

 

Bret

 

"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field.

When a man found it, he hid it again." Mt. 13:44

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quote:
Originally posted by TeeEff:

quote:
Originally posted by wcgreen:

You did place the caches on your property, right? If not, did you get permission of the property owners or the property's managers?


 

And none of your caches are placed on public land?


 

I obtained permission to cache in the park where my traditional caches are.

 

I gather from your question that you have not done the same for your caches.

 

wcgreen

 

--

wcgreen

Wendy Chatley Green

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quote:
Originally posted by CreagerStone Family:

I just find it odd that my idea is so _ultimately_ wrong while there are caches placed and going to be placed along a hiking trail through the Sierra Nevadas that probably won't be visited by the owner more than once a year...if then.

 

THOSE are OK, apparently.


 

I don't read every post to every forum in Groundspeak. Could you provide a link or maybe a non-useless hint to these caches?

 

--

wcgreen

Wendy Chatley Green

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TeeEff,

 

If you visit your *timeshare* every two years and can have someone check on your cache in between, then this thread doesn't really apply to your cache or that situation. (Reread the title.)

 

For the record, permission is what's holding up 2 more of my caches.

 

Also, I'm not sure that a *timeshare* qualifies you as "people of Kauai". I have one in Jamaica and I don't consider myself Jamaican.

 

[This message was edited by geospotter on October 02, 2002 at 01:27 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by TeeEff:

 

If geocachers post problems that they find with a cache, such as a cracked container, another geocacher who is planning to visit that cache will read the logs and know this prior to their visit and have the opportunity to replace the container.


 

But what if the post is they can't find it? Do these automatically get archived since the placer can't go check on it to see if it's still there? What if there is a log posted stating somebody bought the property and would like the cache removed ASAP.

 

I can think of many situations where the hider should be able to physically go to the cache.

 

cool_shades.gif ---I will stand out, I am a raven in the snow.

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Wendy,

 

I think I saw the references to placing a cache on a "yearly" hiking trip in the West/Southwest forum. It seemed OK there, which is why I posted this question here. Feel free to take a look.

 

It wasn't to ignore the rules/tips that I'd already read several times. It wasn't to get people to "change the way the game is played" as someone implied in another post. It was merely to ask if it was appropriate and to get a clarification.

 

There were some helpful responses and some sarcastic ones, so my answers were sarcastic in return.

 

As for me "expecting" people to help out, I do and will...in every cache regardless of where it's placed. I still don't think that it is unreasonable to expect other Geocachers to tidy things up if a "civilian" got into it and took everything out of their bags. That's only because that's what I would expect out of myself. If a geocacher finds it and leaves it in worse repair, then that person shouldn't be playing.

 

I figure that placing a cache is like putting money into a slot machine. Expect that it will be gone and be pleasantly surprised when it isn't. icon_smile.gif

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I checked out TeeEff's cache listing for Polihale Beach in Kauai and I have to admit that if I ever get to Kauai I would probably hunt for it. It sounds like a great location and I can see why TeeEff wanted to put a cache there.

 

However, I still have concerns. Polihale Beach is a beautiful and remote area; not many visitors, not many geocachers. It is also home to one of Kauai's most ancient and sacred temples. Should TeeEff's cache get plundered, or otherwise damaged, the result would be litter along this beautiful beach and it could be months before another cacher comes along to fix the cache. In the meantime, you have spoiled this beautiful beach for any new visitors, and perhaps upset the local authorities.

 

This problem could be avoided by making it either a virtual or a micro-cache. A virtual requires no maintenance, and a micro could be checked every few years.

 

But it still boils down to "it's your responsibility". If you are not a responsible cacher, then you are an irresponsible cacher, and this game doesn't need irresponsible cachers.

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