Ettiquette Ques.: Any Obligation to Log non-finds?

[+Mark 42]

I had a non-find, but it was because I had no GPS coverage (Garmin GPS38 is too old tech for in the treed areas), didn't take along the Topo Map, and ran out of time (also, my dog & little girl got stung while searching).

 

I printed the Topo map afterwards, and my new GPS should arrive tomorrow, so I expect to do a better search, and then if I have a find or no find I will log it.

 

Which brings me to my question... should I even waste space logging a non-find that really was because of adverse conditions that probably made me miss one that otherwise I would have found? Especially since I'll be going back w/i a week or so?

 

Hukt un fonix werkt fur mee

[+bigredmed]

In this case, I would not report the no find and try again when you get your new GPSr. In the case where you have looked exhaustively and with reliable technology, and still can't find it. (Especially if you are with someone else who can't find it). You should report the no find. Caches get mis-hid, stolen, buried with mud from flood waters, and all sorts of nasty things. The owners won't know about it until they go on a maintenance trip or you tell them that its gone.

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nebraskache/

[+briansnat]

There is no obligation, but it's a nice thing to do. Sometimes not found logs are the most entertaining. They can also help future finders avoid the pitfalls you encountered. As a cache owner, I appreciate the "not found" logs as much as the "found its".

 

Some people might just log a note in the instance you describe, but at least log something. It lets the owner know that people are out there looking for it...found or not.

 

My personal rule is that if I key in the coordinates and hit "go to" and don't come up with that cache, for whatever reason, I log it as a "not found". Others will log a "not found" only if they get to the area of the cache and don't come up with it. And there is a small, anal group who won't log "not founds" at all, because they don't want to see "frownie faces" on their page.

 

I'd say log it as a note, or a not found. Your choice. Don't worry about wasting space. A few lines of text don't take up squat.

 

Oh, and once you do find it, leave your not found there. It's part of the history of the cache.

 

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

[+Mark 42]

Thanks.

 

Good info.

 

I like the "complete history" concept.

 

I'll be back out there on my usual jog tonight, but may end up running out of time because after my jog I'll be looking for another one, and on my jog I intend to replace the outer bag on one that I already have found that had holes in it (someone else suggested replacing the bag in an earlier log entry, and I'll be there anyway for my jog).

 

Hukt un fonix werkt fur mee

[+Stunod]

The rule of thumb that I follow is that if I reach the cache area and can not find it, it is a NOT FOUND. If I never get close to actually looking for the box, I just post a NOTE. I don't want people to think it may not be there anymore if they see a NOT FOUND and I wasn't even close to it.

 

"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

[+Renegade Knight]

You are not the only person out there with an old GPS. Posting a note would let others know what to expect. If enough of you have that problem the owner has the option to increase the difficulty, move the cache, or just point out the problem.

 

Without the feedback nobody knows anything.

[+Lone Duck]

quote:

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Without the feedback nobody knows anything.

---

 

Bingo! If you search for a cache or otherwise engage it, you should log it.

 

The Quack Cacher:

Lone Duck

 

When you don't know where you're going, every road will take you there.

[martmann]

quote:

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Originally posted by BrianSnat:

There is no obligation, but it's a nice thing to do. Sometimes not found logs are the most entertaining. They can also help future finders avoid the pitfalls you encountered. As a cache owner, I appreciate the "not found" logs as much as the "found its".

 

Some people might just log a note in the instance you describe, but at least log something. It lets the owner know that people are out there looking for it...found or not.

 

My personal rule is that if I key in the coordinates and hit "go to" and don't come up with that cache, for whatever reason, I log it as a "not found". Others will log a "not found" only if they get to the area of the cache and don't come up with it. And there is a small, anal group who won't log "not founds" at all, because they don't want to see "frownie faces" on their page.

 

I'd say log it as a note, or a not found. Your choice. Don't worry about wasting space. A few lines of text don't take up squat.

 

Oh, and once you do find it, leave your not found there. It's part of the history of the cache.

 

_"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry_

---

 

BrianSnat has the best criteria for posting a 'couldn't find it' that I've seen. I saw it a while back when I started, and decided it would work for me also, and it has.

 

After posting a few 'couldn't find it' logs, you realize it's no big deal, it makes the cache log a bit more interesting, and leaves you integrity intact.

 

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

[Bigmacbridge & Cori]

I read about this,found one by accedent. so I saw one in my area and took my girlfriend and her kids to look for it,no gps just on the clues. it got dark and the bugs had a good dinner so I bought a gps the next day and tried again. the son figured out the gps and we found it...the thrill of the weekend. Now i;m hooked, this is a great hobbie thanks

[+Kite and Hawkeye]

The only reason I'd hesitate to log a 'not found' rather than a note is that I don't want to discourage others from searching with an implication that the cache might not be there unless I actually reached something like ground zero and failed to find it after a search. To me, the purple frowny face subtly suggests that something may have happened to the cache. It may also imply that I'm blind as a bat or not clever enough to find the nose on my face, of course. But I stick with the 'note' for cases where I couldn't reach the cache area because we took a bad trail, or it got dark, or I developed a stomachache, or we couldn't find a place to park, etc.

 

If any actual searching commenced and failed, then it's inevitably a not found, and I think there is some moral obligation to log those to let the cache owner know that either they're very clever with the hide, congrats, or something may have happened to the cache. I usually do write notes when something else stops us on the hunt, but I occasionally don't think the story about, say, the beach being mobbed on a Saturday afternoon and our being unable to find parking as a result, which caused us to skip the cache, really merits commentary on the cache's page, much less a purple-faced log, even though we actually did hit GOTO in the car. For me, the question "should I log a not found" is best answered the same as, "Well, did you look for it and not find it?" If I never got closer than a few hundred feet, no, I wasn't looking for it yet.

[+Team Shibby]

I just follow the definition of the acronym. If DNF = Did Not Find, I'll post it as such if I actually reach the cache location and searched for the cache but do not find it.

 

If I abandon my hike to the cache for whatever reason, I feel no need to post a DNF for the simple fact that I never actually looked for it. In such a case I may post a note to tell of my experience.

 

I will admit I do not like to see frownie faces on my cache page, but if a cache is not there or I cannot locate it I will post a DNF. I have done it before and Im sure I'll be doing it again.

 

There are some caches that require multiple visits in order to log them and unless there is something interesting to share each time I return, I feel no need to post a note for each visit. I can sum it all up in my final entry.

 

Kar

[+ErSamin]

My standard is, if I get out of my car and don't find it, it's a DNF. There have been instances (cemetary cache where there was a graveside service going on, for example) where I have driven to the cache, but aborted the search. I feel like if I didn't make the 'physical' effort, I don't post it.

 

"Could be worse...could be raining"

[+evergreenhiker!]

quote:

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Originally posted by martmann:

quote:

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Originally posted by BrianSnat:

There is no obligation, but it's a nice thing to do. Sometimes not found logs are the most entertaining. They can also help future finders avoid the pitfalls you encountered. As a cache owner, I appreciate the "not found" logs as much as the "found its".

 

Some people might just log a note in the instance you describe, but at least log something. It lets the owner know that people are out there looking for it...found or not.

 

My personal rule is that if I key in the coordinates and hit "go to" and don't come up with that cache, for whatever reason, I log it as a "not found". Others will log a "not found" only if they get to the area of the cache and don't come up with it. And there is a small, anal group who won't log "not founds" at all, because they don't want to see "frownie faces" on their page.

 

I'd say log it as a note, or a not found. Your choice. Don't worry about wasting space. A few lines of text don't take up squat.

 

Oh, and once you do find it, leave your not found there. It's part of the history of the cache.

 

_"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry_

---

 

BrianSnat has the best criteria for posting a 'couldn't find it' that I've seen. I saw it a while back when I started, and decided it would work for me also, and it has.

 

After posting a few 'couldn't find it' logs, you realize it's no big deal, it makes the cache log a bit more interesting, and leaves you integrity intact.

 

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

http://community.webshots.com/album/67423220KEECyy http://community.webshots.com/album/71654825qQctnv

Agree totally

[martmann]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kite & Hawkeye: ...I usually do write notes when something else stops us on the hunt, but I occasionally don't think the story about, say, the beach being mobbed on a Saturday afternoon and our being unable to find parking as a result, which caused us to skip the cache, really merits commentary on the cache's page, much less a purple-faced log...

---

 

Unless I happen to want to hunt that cache and am unaware that parking is tight on the weekend (maybe I'm from out of town), then it would be nice to know ahead of time, though I wouldn't really care if you logged a note or a DNF.

 

I consider little frowny faces may be a sign of a challenging cache, and a DNF alone won't deter me from hunting a cache (the rest of the log entry might).

 

One of the reasons I read the logs, is to see how my cache experience is or isn't similar to others, without the DNFs the whole story isn't there.

 

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

[give-n-takes]

I have to comment that before I had a GPS I was geocaching and although it was tough sometimes I had pretty good success. There was one cache however, that even though I went there twice I couldn't find it. The cache was Hectors Spring by Fred and Ernie. When I posted that I'd try again when I got a GPS, they were very kind and told me they would relocate it. I just recently had the oppurtunity to try again and BEHOLD! I found it. It was much easier since I have a GPS. The main point of this is They were glad to hear other people comments, and I would feel the same. I have two caches out now myself, and I plan on changing containers soon-due to comments of a cacher who commented that the lids were a little loose. The cacher is correct, The more I put the lids on during the process of preparation, the looser the lids seemed to get. But I'm glad that someone took the time to comment, I will never buy that type of container again! Anyways, I think feedback is good, we all learn that way! Happy Hunting!

[+ZingerHead]

I won't lie and say I log every not-found cache, but my rule of thumb is that if the reason for the not-found might be of interest to the next cacher, I'll log it. If I got to the cache location and had plenty of time to look for it and came up empty, I'll definitely log it, because enough frowns in the log might spur the cache owner to take a look to see if the cache is OK. This happened on one of my own caches - someone had looked three times and couldn't find it, but hadn't logged the not-founds. When they did finally log their 3rd frustrating attempt, two other not found logs were entered the same day. Sure enough, the cache was gone. So there IS a definite value in the those not-found logs.

[+captnemo]

If I go to the area and look without finding I post a DNF. If I don't find because of somthing I did, wrong coordinates etc., I don't log a DNF but may log a note if I have something interesting to say.

 

I apreciate it when someone logs a DNF on one of my caches as it tells me that I need to check things out.

[martmann]

quote:

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Originally posted by captnemo:

...If I don't find because of somthing I did, wrong coordinates etc., I don't log a DNF but may log a note if I have something interesting to say.

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Totally don't understand the reasoning there.

 

_________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

[+Mark 42]

The idea being (As I understand it) it's a DNF if you go out looking, get to the area, but look reasonably extensively in the area the cache is supposed to be, and don't find it.

 

If you get home, double check, and realize you input the waypoint wrong...

 

Or you are on your way along the pathe, and your batteries die & you forgot replacement batts...

 

Or you get halfway out there, but have to return because your child got stung by a bee...

 

Or you get into the area, but have pretty much run out of time, so only do a quick look around intending to return tomorrow when you don't have other obligations...

 

Anything that is not a real effort that you would expect to lead to a find. Like sometimes I just look at the Topo map, and then swing by the area w/o a Compass or GPS on my evening jog, to see if maybe I'll recognize a couple of potentially good hiding places and check them out just on the off-chance that I might get lucky and find it w/o a lot of real effort & time.

 

So, if I really tried to find it, and nothing unusual kept me from a decent quality search, and what the results were may be of some interest (such as, perhaps the fact that I can't find it is the first or one of a string of DNF's) to others, including the custodian of the cache... I'l put in a DNF on the cache's online log.

 

If I wasn't seriously looking for it, but saw something of notable interest, then I can just post a note (Like: the parking area is shut down by the forest service until further notice... but parking acn be found on the street just aroung the corner from it) at the cache's online logbook.

 

Hukt un fonix werkt fur mee

[+captnemo]

Hi Martmann

 

What I should have said was if I had entered the wrong coordinates into my GPS I wouldn't post a DNF. Only did this once.

 

If the listed coordinates are wrong I always post a DNF.

 

I try to think straight but often run into a wall!

[+TotemLake]

Well the only problem I have with posting a DNF each time a search has failed me; there would be a couple of caches that would have 6 weeks worth of DNF notes from me. To some, these caches were relatively easy to find but for some reason, I had/have a real cognitive problem. So... there are three criteria I follow to post a DNF:

 

1. I absolutely and completely give up on the search.

2. I think I find a discovered/plundered cache and post a note until I'm advised that I was wrong - then I'll change it to a DNF.

3. It might be a cache I tried to find in passing and don't think I'll be getting back to it anytime soon.

 

I will not post a find unless I can leave some evidence on the log that I was indeed there or unless the owner advises I can go ahead and change my note to a found. Having micro labels to put on the log helped in one case when I forgot my pen. Now I carry a Cross keychain Ion pen.

 

Cheers!

TL

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Generally speaking, If I make it to the cache location it's either FOUND or NOT FOUND.

 

There have been times when I couldn't get that close, and have posted a note. One of them was in an area where people with guns like to fire them at discarded washing machines and swamp coolers. I got within 1/4 mile of the cache, but declined to hike closer. I posted a note so others would have more information on the area.

Another time, there was a 'trail temporarily closed' sign. Needless to say, I didn't get out of the truck and risk a fine from the rangers. I posted a note here as well so other cachers would not search for it and the owner could follow up on when the trail will reopen.

 

One of my NOT FOUNDs came when I was searching for a cache next to a culvert in the snow. The hint said it was on the NW corner and I searched for 20 minutes with no luck. I went back a month or so later when the snow had melted and found it under the NE corner. I left my DNF log in place and claimed the find.

Another DNF was posted when I couldn't find another cache (also buried under the snow) after a good search. I went back later and found it when there was no snow. I logged the find and left my DNF log in place.

Both of these instances let future cachers know that it may be difficult to find in the snow.

 

It's up to you what you log, but I like at least knowing that someone is out there searching for it.

 

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness