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Log Only Micros


metaldog
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I'm not a big fan of log only micros, but they do have their place. In certain high traffic and urban areas, these are often the only type of caches possible. They also work well as a replacement for virtuals.

 

But the real problem stems from the fact that they're so easy to prepare and hide that some people sprinkle the things around like grass seed; too often in areas that have absolutely nothing of interest other than the cache. And much of the time the placer is too lazy even to include a decent log and just tosses in a strip of paper torn from a notebook.

 

What really annoys me is when people stick the things in the forest, or other spots where a regular cache could easily be hidden.

Edited by briansnat
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...But how do y'all feel about the log-only micros? The ones where it's a piece of paper stuffed somewhere clever with not even a golf pencil to sign it with?...

Really lame, but I must admit I thought for a moment about placing one of that kind here during a visit last month. It was an interesting spot with undisputed historical significance, but it just wouldn't have been original; nearly every nook and cranny already had a folded piece of paper stuck in it. B)

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But the real problem stems from the fact that they're so easy to prepare and hide that some people sprinkle the things around like grass seed

I halfway agree. Unfortunately the problem isn't that the micro is too easy to prepare. The problem is the people you're describing. I'll lay dollars to donuts that if Groundspeak were to ban micro listings those people would go right on placing leaky tupperware with soggy logbooks. Personally I prefer a micro with the dry logbook over a peice of tupperware with a soggy logbook and wet/ruined TBs and sig items.

 

I've considered a new guideline along the line of "all your current caches must be in good condition (whatever the heck that means) before we'll list another one" but I think it needs to be thought out a lot more before anything becomes of it.

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I've considered a new guideline along the line of "all your current caches must be in good condition (whatever the heck that means) before we'll list another one" but I think it needs to be thought out a lot more before anything becomes of it.

 

I doubt that would go over well with the "no more rules" crowd, but it isn't a half bad idea. If not as an official guideline, at least as one that individual approvers may use (or maybe even already do).

 

Not sure if I'd hold up listing a cache for someone who has one cache with an outstanding issue, but there are cache owners out there with 30, 40, or 50 caches and half them have problems that aren't being addressed. If I was an approver, I wouldn't list any more caches for these people until the issues are addressed.

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By not logging it you rare just being a parasite on the geocaching system. By not logging it you are not discouraging more of those caches, you are instead doing the equivilent of not voting at all. Only by logging it can you acutally say. "This cache frigging sucks and I'm sorry I wasted my time by coming here"

 

Of course the cache owner isn't in charge of your ability to enjoy yourself come what may. Nor are they in charge of your ability to read a map and sence which caches meet your own personal standards of cache enjoyment. They certainly are not in charge of the decision you made to wake up that day and go to that fateful cache that ruined your day. If they did have say they would of probably told you to not even bother, then again maybe they would let you hunt the cache anyway as poetic justice.

 

What makes or breaks a cache is the finders attitude on life. You can have fun at a 'lame' cache and you can have a piss poor time at a 'great cache'. It's all in your own outlook. The cache has no outlook to share with the world.

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But the real problem stems from the fact that they're so easy to prepare and hide that some people sprinkle the things around like grass seed

I halfway agree. Unfortunately the problem isn't that the micro is too easy to prepare. The problem is the people you're describing. I'll lay dollars to donuts that if Groundspeak were to ban micro listings those people would go right on placing leaky tupperware with soggy logbooks. Personally I prefer a micro with the dry logbook over a peice of tupperware with a soggy logbook and wet/ruined TBs and sig items.

 

I've considered a new guideline along the line of "all your current caches must be in good condition (whatever the heck that means) before we'll list another one" but I think it needs to be thought out a lot more before anything becomes of it.

It's a fair thought, and would need working out. One side effect is that it would allow an area with a cache thief and other people out causing issues to halt the placement of new caches as they systematically cause their carnage. If the only issue that I needed to contend wiht is replacing the wet log, or upgrading a cache conatiner I'd have one cache that is disabled right now and that one is being taken care of this weekend. But life in the gateway city isn't so kind to geocachers right now.

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By not logging it you rare just being a parasite on the geocaching system. By not logging it you are not discouraging more of those caches, you are instead doing the equivilent of not voting at all. Only by logging it can you acutally say. "This cache frigging sucks and I'm sorry I wasted my time by coming here"

 

What makes or breaks a cache is the finders attitude on life. You can have fun at a 'lame' cache and you can have a piss poor time at a 'great cache'. It's all in your own outlook. The cache has no outlook to share with the world.

 

... But life in the gateway city isn't so kind to geocachers right now.

 

Gee, maybe, just maybe, whoever is making life "unkind to gateway city" geocachers is appalled by the attitude of some of the local geocachers and, wanting to discourage more people from embracing that attitude, (and despite his/her best efforts at not becoming "a parasite on the geocaching system," became a "cache maggot" never-the-less), has decided "to make his/her vote known." It's wrong. It's unethical. And it wouldn't surprise me in the least. "Reap what you (generic) sow."

Edited by Bassoon Pilot
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But the real problem stems from the fact that they're so easy to prepare and hide that some people sprinkle the things around like grass seed

I halfway agree. Unfortunately the problem isn't that the micro is too easy to prepare. The problem is the people you're describing. I'll lay dollars to donuts that if Groundspeak were to ban micro listings those people would go right on placing leaky tupperware with soggy logbooks. Personally I prefer a micro with the dry logbook over a peice of tupperware with a soggy logbook and wet/ruined TBs and sig items.

 

I've considered a new guideline along the line of "all your current caches must be in good condition (whatever the heck that means) before we'll list another one" but I think it needs to be thought out a lot more before anything becomes of it.

I would support something along those lines, though it would be hard to work out.

 

I wonder if a good way to start is to set up a curriculum on "how to set up a geocache and not have it suck" and teach it through local cache groups. Can't hide a cache till you have gone through the course and learn the local land use rules, what is and isn't allowed in terms of containers in your area, and along the way little pearls about what makes a good cache (be it a trad or a micro).

 

People would start with a solid base of knowledge and would not try to hide caches in illegal areas (at least knowingly).

 

The thing about the other is you could get banned from cache placement because someone logged in that your old cache is wet. Even if you checked it and it wasn't, all you get is a he said-he said deal. The site would have no way of really knowing if you should or shouldn't be banned. With a class, you either are on the list of past attendees or you are not.

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I find it interesting that the original post talked about "lame sign only micros in uninteresting areas".

 

Tons of ammo cans in the woods or the trees are in absolutely uninteresting areas. Are all of our forests vital, important, etc.? Absolutely. Are most areas of forest land interesting in some special way? Absolutely NOT.

 

It's actually far easier to pick a lame placement for an ammo can than it is a micro.

 

Here! Have fun searching through the rotted stump!

 

Here! Put your hand under the hollowed-out bottom of a tree and put your hand in a pile of rotting debris!

 

Here! Walk through this bog to find the cache, and smell to high heaven!

 

None of these places are interesting to visit.

 

After six months, the vast majority of the trade contents of any cache amount to dog-saliva-covered balls, half-used pencils, and McToys that are just sticky for some unknown, but probably disconcerting reason.

 

So - it's possible to have ammo cans that are lame.

 

I'm all for insisting people maintain their caches, and for placing them in more interesting areas.

 

But don't blame log-only micros for lameness.

 

Human beings are too clever for that - they have the ability to take anything and make it lame.

 

-Jif

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None of these places are interesting to visit.

I have found several cool micros, however I feel its gotten out of hand with people not paying attention to the rules on where and how to place a cache. When someone submits a mico in a restricted area like a gas station its a matter of time before it gets muggled or worse you are pulled over and harassed by the police. Once you have found one on the back of a guard rail whats the point unless ur in it for the numbers?

I dont intentionally drive 100 miles to hunt a micro but I will from time to time look for one if its on the way.

Edited by rbvstar
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So - it's possible to have ammo cans that are lame.

 

 

Its not only possible, there are plenty of them out there. But the ease of creating a micro tends to attract the lazy cache owner. The type who wants to put out a cache for no reason other than he can. Grab a film canister from the junk drawer, tear off a sheet of notebook paper, stick it inside and toss it next to the dumpster behind the Walmart. If it comes up missing, just archive it without checking to see if its still there.

 

Generally speaking an ammo can, because of its size, at least takes some thought to hide. That and generally speaking, someone who goes through the trouble of purchasing an ammo box, painting it and stocking it is someone who is more likely to take care of the cache.

 

Of course these are generalities and there are a lot of great micros and lame regular sized caches, but the "log only" micros tend to attract the kind of person who really should consider sticking with finding caches.

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Some of my most enjoyable and toughest hunts were called micros, but they took so much thought and time to create and hide that I didn't mind at all that there wasn't some broken Mac toys or old gold balls. (what's with the used golf balls anyway?) A pine cone or fake spinkler is much more fun than some of the tupperware we have found.

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Okay, I'll throw my two cents in.

 

The majority of micros are not that interesting. However, the majority of regular caches are not that interesting either. I rarely, if ever, trade because the contents are generally so uninteresting. So log-only caches are just fine by me. What is NOT fine by me is a lame cache--of ANY size--in a crappy area. THAT is what I consider to be the bane of geocaching.

 

I've seen quite a few creative ammo cans and tupperware containers. However, the size alone lends them to be generally less creative than micros can be. Not that they are less creative than most micros ARE, but you can do a lot more with a matchstick container than with a coffee can.

 

The suggestion that people leave film canisters out because they're cheap is probably not untrue. But that's a bad generalization to make. One of my log-only micros cost upwards of $50 to put together. Yes, folks, that's fifty bucks to hide a slip of paper.

 

Finding a cool log-only micro in a neat spot beats the pants off a wet, uncamo'd piece of rubbermaid stuck under a bush alongside the road any day.

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But the ease of creating a micro tends to attract the lazy cache owner. The type who wants to put out a cache for no reason other than he can.  Grab a film canister from the junk drawer, tear off a sheet of notebook paper, stick it inside and toss it next to the dumpster behind the Walmart. If it comes up missing, just archive it without checking to see if its still there.

So are micros really the problem or are lame micros simply a symptom of another problem that regulating micros will do nothing to solve?

 

It sounds to me like the real problem is the cache owner you're describing, not the fact that the cache they choose to create was a micro this time.

Edited by bons
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But the ease of creating a micro tends to attract the lazy cache owner. The type who wants to put out a cache for no reason other than he can.  Grab a film canister from the junk drawer, tear off a sheet of notebook paper, stick it inside and toss it next to the dumpster behind the Walmart. If it comes up missing, just archive it without checking to see if its still there.

So are micros really the problem or are lame micros simply a symptom of another problem that regulating micros will do nothing to solve?

 

It sounds to me like the real problem is the cache owner you're describing, not the fact that the cache they choose to create was a micro this time.

Yes, the real problem is the cache owner and I never suggested regulating micros in order to solve the problem. My point was that micros attract the lazy cache owner; the kind who won't bother to take the time, or spend the money to create an interesting cache. I was just looking at the profile of a guy who placed 30 some caches in a month, nearly all micros and judging from all the "TNLNSL, thanks" type logs, all very un-interesting. Then there was the guy who placed 35 log only micros to celebrate his 35th birthday. How much thought can go into placing 35 caches in one day. Very little judging from some of the comments in the logs.

 

Before the crackdown on virtuals, they were the same kind of people who were waypointing manhole covers, fence posts and flag poles and turning them into virtual caches. Now that they can't get away with that anymore, they're out there sowing these micros all over creation.

Edited by briansnat
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I have no problems with Altoid tin caches, IMO they should not be any smaller than that. Sample perfume vials and postage stamp sized caches for the most part are ridiculous.

There's still a lot you can do with a breath strip container. Sometimes you need something that small to keep it from disappearing right away.

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Right now I have a love/hate relationship with micro caches. If I can find them then I love 'em. If I can't then I hate 'em :blink:

 

I will continue to search for them but I am limiting my search to those micro's that provide a description of the cache itself. A simple 35mm film case is good enough. At least then I have some idea what I'm ultimately looking for.

 

My current "thing" is to seek out caches with travel bugs in them. I want to help them move on their journey if I can. I also find virtual caches interesting because I have learned something from everyone I have done.

 

Zack

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Okay, I want to start by saying that I don't have an issue with micros as a general rule. They make it possible to geocache in places you might otherwise be able to, and you can still swap small stuff- coins, pins, whatever. But how do y'all feel about the log-only micros? The ones where it's a piece of paper stuffed somewhere clever with not even a golf pencil to sign it with? I tried for one the other day, but I stopped when I realized that:

1) the park was nothing more than grass and a parking lot (nothing special by way of a view or historical significance)

2) there would be nothing to trade when I got there

3) and by logging it as found, I would be encouraging that person and others to do what seems like a real lame cache.

I mean, is this the wave of the future? Look at how clever I can be about hiding a piece of paper? Why should people bother with those? Or am I the only one who thinks it's so lame?

A few thoughts.

1. I generally don't like micros.

2. If you don't like them don't do them (just like virts...I LOVE them!)

3. If a cache is lame I say so...no matter what type it is.

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Log-only micro caches are nothing more (or less) than higher-tech, lower-overhead Letterboxing. (No stamp or pad needs to be in the container.)

 

They take very little effort to create; they take even less effort to find and log. The perfect nominal cache of 2004. :blink:

I disagree. The geocachers in my neighborhood spend weeks designing and producing ingenius micros. The "thrill" is identifying it within the environment selected for its concealment and logging it with the knowledge that, at least this time, you haven't been outsmarted. Junk caches exist in every category. Get used to it. It ain't gonna change any time soon.

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since when did metaldog get to be the judge of what is an interesting spot? No offense, it is just that the main point is being happy with whatever spot. Yes super-duper-view-pretty spots are great, but not everyone has access, and those aren't the only nice spots. nice is in your own mind. Don't take it out on the hider if you didn't like the location. (unless it is a garbage dump, yuck, I mean I am reasonable.)

oh, and I have no problem with log-only, I don't have to find them if I don't want anyhow.

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I think I will add my two bits here...I have only been doing this for a couple of weeks, so keep that in mind. I love the big caches when they have more in them than just a bunch of stickers and a rubber snake, three army guys and a bus pass. At first I thought the micros would be a bore...what? nothing but a tiny roll of paper? Bring my own pencil?? Sheesh!! But then I did a few of them.

 

I discovered that there are some really devious people out there trying to make my life miserable. The best micros I have seen have been in crowded urban areas, nestled in an out of the way park that I didn't know existed, and so well hidden that I was standing right on top of them scratching my head and reading the clue over and over again.

 

I stood under an old bridge and removed every loose stone, trying to find a micro that is part of a multi-and I have to go back and look some more because I can't sleep at night!!

 

To sum it up...this sport is only limited by what our imaginations can come up with...if you don't like micros...don't go looking for them. If you don't like snowshoeing in to a wilderness area to find an ammo can...don't do it.

 

Okay...I'm out.

 

One of the GeoGrannies left at home alone with nothing to do on a Friday night.

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We were in a small town here in southern Oregon and went to find a film canister in the middle of the town. The thing was hidden in plain site, still there, not easy to find, but in the tiniest, prettiest park I have seen since I was in the Keys. Simple log; signed, sat, and left. Very satisfying. Not a great view, tons of people, noisy cars going by, park was about the size of three parking spaces, but enjoyable. Thanks to those who use their heads to hide any size of cache.

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When I'm traveling, I love to do log-only micros.

 

a- It gets me out of the hotel room

b- It takes me to a part of a city I'd never visit for any other reason

c- If I have a car, it gives me a reason to stop and stretch

 

I'd no sooner abandon log-only caches than give up my GPSr.

 

Do I love ammobox caches? Yes of course. Do I love puzzles and all those other types of caches? Yes of course.

 

But when staying downtown in a strange city, there is something magical about walking eight city blocks to get to a small inner-city park with a film canister hidden in the crook of a tree. There is something special about leaving work, and snatching a hide-a-key on the way to the hotel.

 

I love 'em.

 

As they say - "In this game (as in life), there is something for everyone."

 

If you don't care for 'em, don't do 'em.

 

That's my 2/100 of a dollar.

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There's still a lot you can do with a breath strip container. Sometimes you need something that small to keep it from disappearing right away.

Just because somthing can be done doesn't mean it should be done. When a cache gets to a point where it is impractical to work... like rapidly approaching ridiculous in size, then it is time to look into doing a virtual cache instead.

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I think I will add my two bits here...I have only been doing this for a couple of weeks, so keep that in mind. I love the big caches when they have more in them than just a bunch of stickers and a rubber snake, three army guys and a bus pass. At first I thought the micros would be a bore...what? nothing but a tiny roll of paper? Bring my own pencil?? Sheesh!! But then I did a few of them.

 

I discovered that there are some really devious people out there trying to make my life miserable. The best micros I have seen have been in crowded urban areas, nestled in an out of the way park that I didn't know existed, and so well hidden that I was standing right on top of them scratching my head and reading the clue over and over again.

 

I stood under an old bridge and removed every loose stone, trying to find a micro that is part of a multi-and I have to go back and look some more because I can't sleep at night!!

 

To sum it up...this sport is only limited by what our imaginations can come up with...if you don't like micros...don't go looking for them. If you don't like snowshoeing in to a wilderness area to find an ammo can...don't do it.

 

Okay...I'm out.

 

One of the GeoGrannies left at home alone with nothing to do on a Friday night.

IMHO, that about says it all..... :blink:

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Log-only micro caches are nothing more (or less) than higher-tech, lower-overhead Letterboxing. (No stamp or pad needs to be in the container.)

 

They take very little effort to create; they take even less effort to find and log.  The perfect nominal cache of 2004.  :huh:

I disagree. The geocachers in my neighborhood spend weeks designing and producing ingenius micros. The "thrill" is identifying it within the environment selected for its concealment and logging it with the knowledge that, at least this time, you haven't been outsmarted. Junk caches exist in every category. Get used to it. It ain't gonna change any time soon.

The title of this thread is "log-only micro caches." In my experience, and apparently in the experiences of many other geocachers, the absolute worst caches most of us have encountered belong to the log-only micro variety. For the reasons mentioned in my post and many others.

 

Yes, there is also the occasional excellent log-only micro cache. I think geocachers would be doing the greatest disservice to the game if they meekly "got used to" (accepted tacitly) caches that are, to use the kindest words possible, less than mediocre. Like the weakest of "log-only micros," it does nothing to improve the quality of the game. It is merely asking for "more of the same."

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The title of this thread is "log-only micro caches." In my experience, and apparently in the experiences of many other geocachers, the absolute worst caches most of us have encountered belong to the log-only micro variety. For the reasons mentioned in my post and many others.

 

Yes, there is also the occasional excellent log-only micro cache. I think geocachers would be doing the greatest disservice to the game if they meekly "got used to" (accepted tacitly) caches that are, to use the kindest words possible, less than mediocre. Like the weakest of "log-only micros," it does nothing to improve the quality of the game. It is merely asking for "more of the same."

 

Echo...echo...echo...echo...

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In my experience, and apparently in the experiences of many other geocachers, the absolute worst caches most of us have encountered belong to the log-only micro variety. For the reasons mentioned in my post and many others.

And once you've managed to get rid of the log only micros and the same people that place them proceed to place piles of cheap leaky tupperware regulars what do you plan to do?

 

Perhaps you'll start complaining about tupperware and demand standards for the cache containers as well. Who knows.

 

You're complaining about the symptom and you're doing your best to prevent the symptom from occurring again in it's current form but you don't seem to be addressing the actual problem, namely that there is the occasional cacher in your area whose hides aren't what you want them to be. Maybe complaining here is simply easier than working with them in an effort to get better local hides.

 

What worries me is that if you succeed in what appears to be your goal (banning log only micros) you'll prevent plenty of good clever caches from ever being enjoyed by anyone else and you won't have done a thing to solve your problem.

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Just because somthing can be done doesn't mean it should be done. When a cache gets to a point where it is impractical to work... like rapidly approaching ridiculous in size, then it is time to look into doing a virtual cache instead.

I don't see a breath strip container as necessarily impractical or ridiculous, and I don't think you'll have much luck trying that argument with the kind folks at Groundspeak. We've found many creative ways to put a cache where an Altoids tin won't fit...and gotten quite a few compliments in the process.

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You're complaining about the symptom and you're doing your best to prevent the symptom from occurring again in it's current form but you don't seem to be addressing the actual problem, namely that there is the occasional cacher in your area whose hides aren't what you want them to be.

Thank you for informing me that I was writing about a problem persistent to my local area ... I was not aware that I was. Every region I have visited is experiencing similar problems.

 

I don't recall asking for any type of cache to be "banned." Ever.

 

Your position of "do nothing" only exacerbates such problems. In my opinion, that is the most counterproductive position of all, and is the greatest danger to the game.

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That's not my position at all. My position is to do something about the actual problem and from what I can see, log only micros aren't the actual problem. The actual problem is a minority of geocachers who place caches that it seems a significant portion of cachers don't enjoy.

 

Now let's be honest. There are always going to be caches on the lower side of the bell curve. If all the caches were 4 star caches we'd rate some of them as 1's simply because some of them aren't as good as the others.

 

What we can do is say what we like and what we don't like about other caches in the area. What we can do are form local organizations so that we all get together and compare notes and learn and grow. What we can do is create caches that are examples of how to do things better and hope people learn from them.

 

Actually I'm wrong. That's only half of the problem. The other half of the problem has to do with the people who constantly complain because they're under the assumption that just because a cache is listed they actually have to look for the darn thing and log it. I don't have a clue what to do about that problem though.

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What we can do is say what we like and what we don't like about other caches in the area. What we can do are form local organizations so that we all get together and compare notes and learn and grow. What we can do is create caches that are examples of how to do things better and hope people learn from them.

 

So you're suggesting that we come together as cachers and take an active role to solve the problem, especially in our local areas?

 

I like that thought process.

 

I bet it would work on other problems we as cachers face.

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That's not my position at all. My position is to do something about the actual problem and from what I can see, log only micros aren't the actual problem. The actual problem is a minority of geocachers who place caches that it seems a significant portion of cachers don't enjoy.

 

 

Actually I'm wrong. That's only half of the problem. The other half of the problem has to do with the people who constantly complain because they're under the assumption that just because a cache is listed they actually have to look for the darn thing and log it. I don't have a clue what to do about that problem though.

Wow, well said. I have seen caches in all sizes that are just thrown out there, and all sizes of wonderful caches, maybe there should be a geo caching IQ test for hiding a cache. And maybe even for those who want to complain about the caches.

edited to correct the spelling mistake

Edited by Riddlers
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What we can do are form local organizations so that we all get together and compare notes and learn and grow. What we can do is create caches that are examples of how to do things better and hope people learn from them.

I don't agree that local groups are the best way, or even a very good way, to solve problems that exist in all regions. Isn't that why we have these forums located on this "the official website of geocaching?"

 

I think it is absolutely foolish to "hope" that those who place the weakest caches "learn from the good examples" set by other cachers in the area. In many cases, the worst caches are being placed by well-experienced (some would use the term "prolific") cachers.

Edited by Bassoon Pilot
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maybe there should be a geo caching IQ test for hidding a cache.

 

There is...

 

And once you've managed to get rid of the log only micros and the same people that place them proceed to place piles of cheap leaky tupperware regulars what do you plan to do?

 

It will probably eliminate a lot of the LMH's (Lame Micro Hiders) because buying a Tupperware container, choosing items (no matter how lame) to put inside, providing a logbook and pencil and finally, finding a hiding place large enough to hide the cache is more work than a lot of them are willing to do. I bet probably 50 percent of the LMH's couldn't be bothered going through all that to place a cache, no matter how lame.

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I personally like log only micros. I am new to geocaching, and I like the challenging, middle-of-friggin-nowhere! kind myself, but my 9yo daughter loves it, too. She thinks of it as a treasure hunt. Thank God, I'm not allergic to PI/PO, but she is, and at under 4 ft tall, she would have a hard time in dense woods! If we're going to get the next generation of geocachers involved before they're nearly 40 like me, easy terrain micros help a lot! I personally prefer log only micros in interesting places, like old historic cemeteries and such, but the occasional, well-hidden-in-plain-sight micro is cool too. I do think it is nice when the owner tells you up front that it's a log only micro, though, so if you don't like those, you don't waste your time. Bottom line, what sux for me may be fun for someone else, isn't geocaching big enough for all of us? There's plenty of real problems to get mad at, like bogus coordinates, MIA travel bugs, and mosquitoes! :huh:

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I live in sunny and hot south Florida. We have a little bit of everything around here. You can hike for a long distance in forest or swamp to find a large cache. You can drive up to some micros and do a park and grab. Hike through a natural area on boardwalks constructed to get you deep into a swamp miles from no where to find a micro because bushwacking is not allowed and if you step off the walkway a 10 foot Gator may eat you for breakfast. I have only been caching for a few months now but have been to many beautiful areas within 10 miles of my home that I would have never known about without caching. I would guess that 50% of my finds have been micros and I am not complaining one little bit. This time of year when the heat is unbearable I often love a quick micro with a challenging clue that does not take more than a few minutes to get to. When it's cooler I love the long walks. Glad the people around here hide a little bit of everything!!! :huh: jeanneisme

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because buying a Tupperware container
No harder than buying a tin of altoids or a magnetic keyholder
choosing items (no matter how lame) to put inside
what makes you think they're going to put swag in it? Besides, so many people have junk drawers that need to be cleaned out.
providing a logbook and pencil
easier than trying to make a tiny logbook. Usually the notepads are just a couple aisles from the tupperware.
and finally, finding a hiding place large enough to hide the cache
what is this "hiding" you speak of? A tree trunk and some deadwood seems to do the job.
I bet probably 50 percent of the LMH's  couldn't be bothered going through all that  to place a cache, no matter how lame.
I'll take that bet. Especially since I'm almost positive I've seen a couple regular sized caches placed where the act of creating a micro and hiding it would have been harder than what was involved with the regular.
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I feel every cache could/should be big enough for a pencil and small trinkets at the very least, unless its absolutly impossible

Then you would have missed out on one of the fun caches at Sax Man's campout. No room for trinkets or a pencil in there but it was definately a fun hide.

 

Oh well, maybe you and Brian will get lucky and never have to have fun with caches like that.

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Oh well, maybe you and Brian will get lucky and never have to have fun with caches like that.

 

Me? I have no problem with quality micro caches and don't recall saying anything against them. My problem is with micros that are indiscriminatly sprinkled around just for the sake of placing a cache.

 

Well thought out micros can be fun cache hunts and I've found a few. And I mean a few.

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I dont mind micro-caches, though I prefer regular sized ones. If a micro is large enough, I will leave a foreign coin or a where's george dollar.

 

I am not a real fan of cache's that are poorly maintained, I will usually leave nothing or a magnet I pull off my new edition of the phone book or something like that.

 

Brodiebunch

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Well since this is everyone just giving their opinions on the subject, I 'll give mine as well :huh:

 

The first cache I found was I think 4 or 5 years ago. It was definitely a micro because the cache was destroyed and the owner decided not to replace it with anything elaborate because it's location was such that it would get looted again.

 

So he nailed a crushed beer can to a piece of driftwood that was toss inbetween some rocks along the shore of lake Michigan.

 

I had fun finding that cache, because it was in an easily accessible area and like I said, it was my first time doing this.

 

In this spot there really was no possibility of having a cache be anything other than junk (not even a log). Since this was a port along the lake complete with nearby Marina, park, a water play area for kids etc. it was a nice area for a family to visit so not at all a waste of time.

 

Now, I freely admit that I am not going to trample through 5 miles of poison oak and swamps and then climb a mountain in order to find a needle in a hay stack, but it sure is nice to be going to an area anyway and check the site to see if there is a cache hidden there regardless of whether it contains a hundred dollar bill or it's just a crushed beer can.

 

As long as the cache description indicates the type of cache and a good description of what the expected experience will be, everyone is free to make up their own mind as to which ones to seek and which ones to avoid.

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My big whine is the "mass-caching" that some have started to up their numbers. I am especially bothered by some of the abuses in the placement guidelines that have occurred with caches placed on private property and structures.

 

I fully agree that there are places where micros are the ONLY option but we have those who place them merely for the sake of higher numbers and bragging rights.

 

Street lights, mailboxes, privately owned signs and flowerboxes, and he like are NOT appropriate places for caches. How would you like it if some stranger placed a cache on YOUR porch without your permission?

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