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Overzealous Cache Disaprovers???


urbo
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;) anybody else experiencing overzealous cache disapprovers?

 

it almost seems like you need a permit to hide a cache down here. i tried to do a bunch of micros down here in south beach in miami. to those uninitiated, on south beach you walk most places. when your lucky enough to find a spot you grab it and the car stays put. you walk everywhere. my caches were "too close and should be a multi". aprox 3 blocks between caches on foot is too close?? one cache gets plundered and whole multi becomes worthless.

 

i wanted to do a really cool treasure hunt type cache. it would be buried on a desolate beach. disapproved.. its buried. well it didnt require tools, just kicking sand with your feet. disapproved, need permission. from who? the public beach god?

 

close buddy and fellow cacher places cache in tree in residential area but on easement (not private property). disapproved.. cache approver "thinks" its in someones yard so he archives it.

 

geez, what the hey? talk about a killjoy.

 

am i the only one experiencing these blues?

:bad:

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caches are fundamentally garbage and geocaching will eventually be banned as littering, it's just a matter of time, everyone knows it.

 

so the folks at gc.com are attempting to buy time and extend geocaching beyond it's death date, by being very selective as to cache approvals. so why not help them out?? after all, it's just a game.

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caches are fundamentally garbage and geocaching will eventually be banned as littering, it's just a matter of time, everyone knows it.

 

so the folks at gc.com are attempting to buy time and extend geocaching beyond it's death date, by being very selective as to cache approvals. so why not help them out?? after all, it's just a game.

You're preaching to the choir, pal. Maybe you should be posting on geocachingsucks.com :bad:

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Individual parks may ban caching but politics follows the money and geocachers spend money. It's only a matter of time before exactly the opposite happens and caches are specifically allowed. The worst issue will be the paperwork.

 

Edit: Added some On Topic stuff: As for a mulit, unless the approver is proposing a multi as an exception to the distance rule it should be the cache owners choice. Burial pretty much needs to be shown in no uncertain terms it's ok. Sand is the worst. If you bury a cache in the forest I'll be able to find the spot with no problem without digging out a wider area or digging in the wrong spot. On the beach, the sand will obscure it and so you need a good means to zero in.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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In looking at the Florida caches, I don't see any recently disallowed caches from your account. One of your hides from late May was listed on the website.

 

Are you complaining about the series of micros you placed in January, that nobody could find, and which were then archived in mid-April in response to user notes? It'd help to know the precise nature of the perceived problem.

 

Please bear in mind that the "overzealous cache disapprovers" are geocachers just like yourself, who approach every cache with the hope that it can be listed. We do have to enforce the written guidelines that you acknowledged you read before submitting any cache. Included in the guidelines are the proximity guideline and the "off limits" locations list, which include buried caches. Complain about the rules all you want, but please follow our forum conduct guidelines and do your best to distinguish between the rules and the persons who are applying those rules. Thank you.

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close buddy and fellow cacher places cache in tree in residential area but on easement (not private property). disapproved.. cache approver "thinks" its in someones yard so he archives it.

I'm a little confused but I'll focus my confusion on one small point and expand from there.

 

When did an easement cease to be private property? I've seen this before and it confuses me. Last I knew an easement was still private property and not open to the general public.

 

Did I miss something important when I decided not to become a lawyer and take all those classes?

Edited by bons
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close buddy and fellow cacher places cache in tree in residential area but on easement (not private property). disapproved.. cache approver "thinks" its in someones yard so he archives it.

I'm a little confused but I'll focus my confusion on one small point and expand from there.

 

When did an easement cease to be private property? I've seen this before and it confuses me. Last I knew an easement was still pivate property and not open to the general public.

 

Did I miss something important when I decided not to become a lawyer and take all those classes?

Property easement is a right to use some part of a property for a specific purpose.

 

An express easement may be contained in the deed to the property or in another document. Some examples include:

 

A utility company can run power lines on a property

Adjacent property owners may enter into an agreement to share a common driveway that extends over both properties.

An implied easement or prescriptive easement may arise when a use of property continues for a certain period of time. For example, if a neighbor has been crossing the corner of a property for years, the neighbor may have acquired a prescriptive easement to continue to cross the property in the same manner.

 

A right-of-way is a type of easement that gives someone the right to travel across property owned by another person.

 

******the above was taken from a website dealing with easements*****

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my caches were "too close and should be a multi". aprox 3 blocks between caches on foot is too close?? ...

 

i wanted to do a really cool treasure hunt type cache. it would be buried on a desolate beach. disapproved.. its buried. well it didnt require tools, just kicking sand with your feet. disapproved, need permission. from who? the public beach god?

 

close buddy and fellow cacher places cache in tree in residential area but on easement (not private property). disapproved.. cache approver "thinks" its in someones yard so he archives it.

 

I'd say you have a good approver there who doesn't want the game hurt by your caches.

 

 

"it would be buried on a desolate beach. disapproved.. its buried. well it didnt require tools, just kicking sand with your feet" - - - I can't be buried. Besides, winds, tides, storms, kids playing, bikes, bikers, etc., etc., could all easily uncover the cache. Is this perhaps a private beach? No all "desolate" beach property is public land, especially near Miami.

 

 

"cacher places cache in tree in residential area but on easement (not private property). " - - - -bons explained that one quite nicely

 

As for putting out a bunch of micros... MAybe the cacher understands that lightpoles, mailboxes, street signs, stop lights, etc. are NOT public property for the general use of all. Ditto to obvious private areas such as signs, advertising, sidewalk guardrails and the like.

 

Be kind to the Approvers. They give this game a lot more time than you do and know a lot more about it.

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close buddy and fellow cacher places cache in tree in residential area but on easement (not private property). disapproved.. cache approver "thinks" its in someones yard so he archives it.

I'm a little confused but I'll focus my confusion on one small point and expand from there.

 

When did an easement cease to be private property? I've seen this before and it confuses me. Last I knew an easement was still pivate property and not open to the general public.

 

Did I miss something important when I decided not to become a lawyer and take all those classes?

Property easement is a right to use some part of a property for a specific purpose.

 

An express easement may be contained in the deed to the property or in another document. Some examples include:

 

A utility company can run power lines on a property

Adjacent property owners may enter into an agreement to share a common driveway that extends over both properties.

An implied easement or prescriptive easement may arise when a use of property continues for a certain period of time. For example, if a neighbor has been crossing the corner of a property for years, the neighbor may have acquired a prescriptive easement to continue to cross the property in the same manner.

 

A right-of-way is a type of easement that gives someone the right to travel across property owned by another person.

 

******the above was taken from a website dealing with easements*****

Thank you but that still does NOT mean that the area becomes PUBLIC property.

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close buddy and fellow cacher places cache in tree in residential area but on easement (not private property). disapproved.. cache approver "thinks" its in someones yard so he archives it.

I'm a little confused but I'll focus my confusion on one small point and expand from there.

 

When did an easement cease to be private property? I've seen this before and it confuses me. Last I knew an easement was still pivate property and not open to the general public.

 

Did I miss something important when I decided not to become a lawyer and take all those classes?

Property easement is a right to use some part of a property for a specific purpose.

 

An express easement may be contained in the deed to the property or in another document. Some examples include:

 

A utility company can run power lines on a property

Adjacent property owners may enter into an agreement to share a common driveway that extends over both properties.

An implied easement or prescriptive easement may arise when a use of property continues for a certain period of time. For example, if a neighbor has been crossing the corner of a property for years, the neighbor may have acquired a prescriptive easement to continue to cross the property in the same manner.

 

A right-of-way is a type of easement that gives someone the right to travel across property owned by another person.

 

******the above was taken from a website dealing with easements*****

Thank you but that still does NOT mean that the area becomes PUBLIC property.

.... and that's what I thought I was pointing out. I was just contributing to Bon's statement about it being private and not public property. :rolleyes:

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That's how I read it, Hawkbit - as supporting documentation, not countering.

 

And after reading Keystones post, it's clear there is another side to the story. Interesting how often that seems to be the case, huh?

 

BTW, I hope those mechanized rakes they use to clean the garbage off the beach didn't swallow the micro caches whole... :rolleyes:

Edited by New England n00b
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Nope, the other people who don't follow the guidelines are experiencing the same blues.

 

I just think it's alot easier to follow this sites guidelines and be a productive geocaching member, rather then try to beat the system. :rolleyes: I found a couple of caches this weekend and hid a hydro (island cache). I followed the guidelines and my new cache was listed in less then twenty four hours. (Thanks CO ADMIN)

 

I would just like every member to do their part as a geocacher so the sport lasts forever. Always CITO and stay off of private property. Don't do too much bush wacking and protect the land the best way you can. If every geocacher follows the guidelines, we shouldn't have anything to worry about. Even in five or twenty five more years.

 

How's that for a nice productive post? :P

 

Upinyachit

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flask Posted on Jun 7 2004, 05:40 AM

  i find that my approver does splendid work. splendid, do you hear me? my only complaint is that there is no approver for my state, but that's not his fault. 

 

My approvers are splendider than your approver. nah-nah-nah-nah-nah!!

Edited by SixDogTeam
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I just think it's alot easier to follow this sites guidelines and be a productive geocaching member, rather then try to beat the system.  I found a couple of caches this weekend and hid a hydro (island cache). I followed the guidelines and my new cache was listed in less then twenty four hours. (Thanks CO ADMIN)

 

I would just like every member to do their part as a geocacher so the sport lasts forever. Always CITO and stay off of private property. Don't do too much bush wacking and protect the land the best way you can. If every geocacher follows the guidelines, we shouldn't have anything to worry about. Even in five or twenty five more years.

 

How's that for a nice productive post? 

 

Who are you and does Duane know you are using his account?

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"it would be buried on a desolate beach. disapproved.. its buried. well it didnt require tools, just kicking sand with your feet" - - - I can't be buried. Besides, winds, tides, storms, kids playing, bikes, bikers, etc., etc., could all easily uncover the cache. Is this perhaps a private beach? No all "desolate" beach property is public land, especially near Miami.

Yeah, I want to know where this desolate beach area was down on South Beach. I want to buy it and build a resort.

 

This is a picture from our balcony on South Beach. I saw no desolate beach area for miles in either direction, only hotels, resorts and condos. I honestly don't remember private beach homes there. That is probably because the beach itself at South Beach is nasty and no one would want to have a home there.

 

gregtinafla.JPG

 

(FYI, South Beach is all hype. Stay in Ft. Lauderdale. The beach is MUCH cleaner.)

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flask Posted on Jun 7 2004, 05:40 AM

  i find that my approver does splendid work. splendid, do you hear me? my only complaint is that there is no approver for my state, but that's not his fault. 

 

My approvers are splendider than your approver. nah-nah-nah-nah-nah!!

to heck with you. sometimes when i don't hear from mine for a couple of days, i miss him so much i cry.

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QUOTE (SixDogTeam @ Jun 7 2004, 05:50 AM)

QUOTE 

flask Posted on Jun 7 2004, 05:40 AM

  i find that my approver does splendid work. splendid, do you hear me? my only complaint is that there is no approver for my state, but that's not his fault. 

 

 

My approvers are splendider than your approver. nah-nah-nah-nah-nah!! 

 

to heck with you. sometimes when i don't hear from mine for a couple of days, i miss him so much i cry.

 

My approver has been MIA for two weeks, his replacement (who I love) says he's OK, I hope that's true. I love all my approvers.seriously.

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OOoooh, I get it.

 

No caches within .1 miles of another cache. No, no, these are my caches so it's okay, and you walk from one to another. I should be the exception to the rule.

 

No burried cache. No, no it's burried in sand so it's okay. I should be the exception to the rule.

 

You let us all know why shouldn't have to follow the same rules as everyone else and then maybe you'll get some support, but I doubt it.

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Nope, the other people who don't follow the guidelines are experiencing the same blues.

 

I just think it's alot easier to follow this sites guidelines and be a productive geocaching member, rather then try to beat the system. :rolleyes: I found a couple of caches this weekend and hid a hydro (island cache). I followed the guidelines and my new cache was listed in less then twenty four hours. (Thanks CO ADMIN)

 

I would just like every member to do their part as a geocacher so the sport lasts forever. Always CITO and stay off of private property. Don't do too much bush wacking and protect the land the best way you can. If every geocacher follows the guidelines, we shouldn't have anything to worry about. Even in five or twenty five more years.

 

How's that for a nice productive post? :P

 

Upinyachit

Wow, Duane. I'm impressed! I thought I was the onily one who thought CO Admin was great. He approved my latest 2 caches 2 days before I placed them. All because I followed the guidelines and placed them appropriately. :)

 

Although...according to my NG Topo! maps, I placed one in Colorado instead of 20 feet south of the border. That's probably because Team 360 lent me his Magellan, but that's another thread... :D

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In looking at the Florida caches, I don't see any recently disallowed caches from your account. One of your hides from late May was listed on the website.

 

Are you complaining about the series of micros you placed in January, that nobody could find, and which were then archived in mid-April in response to user notes? It'd help to know the precise nature of the perceived problem.

 

Please bear in mind that the "overzealous cache disapprovers" are geocachers just like yourself, who approach every cache with the hope that it can be listed. We do have to enforce the written guidelines that you acknowledged you read before submitting any cache. Included in the guidelines are the proximity guideline and the "off limits" locations list, which include buried caches. Complain about the rules all you want, but please follow our forum conduct guidelines and do your best to distinguish between the rules and the persons who are applying those rules. Thank you.

the micros were met with resistance from day one and some didnt even get listed on the site. it was a battle from the time i uploaded them.

 

the beach cache was going to be treasure hunt style. find the cache with the map. the map led you to the stash to cut down on "wandering holes". that got shot down as well. that one never made it to the site.

 

urbo

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close buddy and fellow cacher places cache in tree in residential area but on easement (not private property). disapproved.. cache approver "thinks" its in someones yard so he archives it.

I'm a little confused but I'll focus my confusion on one small point and expand from there.

 

When did an easement cease to be private property? I've seen this before and it confuses me. Last I knew an easement was still pivate property and not open to the general public.

 

Did I miss something important when I decided not to become a lawyer and take all those classes?

Property easement is a right to use some part of a property for a specific purpose.

 

An express easement may be contained in the deed to the property or in another document. Some examples include:

 

A utility company can run power lines on a property

Adjacent property owners may enter into an agreement to share a common driveway that extends over both properties.

An implied easement or prescriptive easement may arise when a use of property continues for a certain period of time. For example, if a neighbor has been crossing the corner of a property for years, the neighbor may have acquired a prescriptive easement to continue to cross the property in the same manner.

 

A right-of-way is a type of easement that gives someone the right to travel across property owned by another person.

 

******the above was taken from a website dealing with easements*****

i'll clear up what i meant.. the cache that got archived was in a tree on the side of the road between the street and the sidewalk, not between sidewalk and house which would be private property. its were any schmo can park his car.

 

urbo

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"it would be buried on a desolate beach. disapproved.. its buried. well it didnt require tools, just kicking sand with your feet"  - - - I can't be buried. Besides, winds, tides, storms, kids playing, bikes, bikers, etc., etc., could all easily uncover the cache. Is this perhaps a private beach? No all "desolate" beach property is public land, especially near Miami.

Yeah, I want to know where this desolate beach area was down on South Beach. I want to buy it and build a resort.

 

This is a picture from our balcony on South Beach. I saw no desolate beach area for miles in either direction, only hotels, resorts and condos. I honestly don't remember private beach homes there. That is probably because the beach itself at South Beach is nasty and no one would want to have a home there.

 

gregtinafla.JPG

 

(FYI, South Beach is all hype. Stay in Ft. Lauderdale. The beach is MUCH cleaner.)

south beach around south point was considered as was hobie near rickenbacker. the area around south pointe can get desolate during week days early in the morn.

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OOoooh, I get it.

 

No caches within .1 miles of another cache. No, no, these are my caches so it's okay, and you walk from one to another. I should be the exception to the rule.

 

No burried cache. No, no it's burried in sand so it's okay. I should be the exception to the rule.

 

You let us all know why shouldn't have to follow the same rules as everyone else and then maybe you'll get some support, but I doubt it.

read closely on the burried caches guys.. you guys are hammering me and not reading the "no tools to dig" part.

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b

i'll clear up what i meant.. the cache that got archived was in a tree on the side of the road between the street and the sidewalk, not between sidewalk and house which would be private property. its were any schmo can park his car.

 

urbo

I dunno about where your friend lives, but usually that's still the homeowner's property. That's why it's called an easement. The town can do whatever they want, put new curbs in, or sidewalks, or rip it up to work on utilities, but if you slip and fall on it in front of my house, you're gonna sue me, not the town, and it's listed on my deed.

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further clarification on some of the topics i brought up..

 

from geocaching website regarding distance between caches..

"The approvers use a rule of thumb that caches placed within .10 miles (528 feet or 161 meters) of another cache may not be listed on the site. This is an arbitrary distance and is just a guideline, but the ultimate goal is to reduce the number of caches hidden in a particular area and to reduce confusion that might otherwise result when one cache is found while looking for another. "

 

with this in mind, is it unreasonable to ask that caches several blocks from each other in an area where there where no caches at the time and most getting around is on foot? the long side of ONE city block is easily over 500 feet.

 

 

next item.. buried caches.. quote from geocaching website..

"Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other “pointy” object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate."

 

cache a couple of inches under sand that could be uncovered by sweeping with hands or feet is unreasonable?

 

so where am i going wrong here and being a harda**? you guys may have great approvers but i differ here.

 

urbo

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further clarification on some of the topics i brought up..

 

from geocaching website regarding distance between caches..

"The approvers use a rule of thumb that caches placed within .10 miles (528 feet or 161 meters) of another cache may not be listed on the site. This is an arbitrary distance and is just a guideline, but the ultimate goal is to reduce the number of caches hidden in a particular area and to reduce confusion that might otherwise result when one cache is found while looking for another. "

 

with this in mind, is it unreasonable to ask that caches several blocks from each other in an area where there where no caches at the time and most getting around is on foot? the long side of ONE city block is easily over 500 feet.

 

 

next item.. buried caches.. quote from geocaching website..

"Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other “pointy” object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate."

 

cache a couple of inches under sand that could be uncovered by sweeping with hands or feet is unreasonable?

 

so where am i going wrong here and being a harda**? you guys may have great approvers but i differ here.

 

urbo

Once again, have you emailed the approver that denied your cache submission? Let him know about the nearest cache, about how you don't need a "shovel, trowel or pointy object" to uncover the cache. I have heard about other caches being "buried" under sand at the beach. I see yours as being no different.

 

However, if it is placed on this "easement" you refer to, that would be considered private property. The electrical box (transformer) in front of my house is on an easement. That means the power company has permission to service the box and I can't say they are trespassing. However, if you came over and started messing with it I could have you arrested.

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Urbo, I looked once again, and in more detail, at the caches which appear to be the subject of this thread, and I found the following:

 

foreign paradise 1 microcache - placed 1/3/04; DNF'd 3 times in mid-March; disabled by reviewer in March; DNF'd with a note 4/15/04; archived 4/16/04 - never found.

 

foreign paradise 2 microcache - placed 1/3/04; found once; otherwise, same chronology as cache number 1.

 

foreign paradise 3 microcache - same chronology as cache number 1; never found.

 

foreign paradise 4 microcache - placed 1/3/04; DNF'd 3/18/04; disabled at some time thereafter; DNF'd with a note 4/15/04; archived 4/16/04 - never found.

 

foreign paradise 5 microcache - placed 1/3/04; archived 1/5/04 because it was located in front of a police station. The reviewer noted that, if the cache was placed with permission, it could be listed.

 

foreign paradise 6 microcache - placed 1/3/04; reviewer noted that cache was 191 feet from paradise 1 microcache; archived 2/04 because proximity issue was not addressed.

 

So, in summary:

 

4 of your six micros were listed on the website. They went missing, they were disabled, they weren't replaced, and they were archived along with an invitation to contact the reviewer if the caches were ever replaced.

 

Two of your micros were not listed on the website. One was placed in an off-limits location (near a police station - a government building) and the other was 191 feet from a different cache.

 

I do not see any unapproved, archived submissions dealing with caches buried on South Beach. Perhaps you could be so kind as to provide the GC number or an explanation. Sometimes ideas are submitted via e-mail, for example, to solicit a reviewer's opinion, and never make it as far as a cache submission.

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If it's buried, it's buried. Buried in the sand is buried. Leaves, weeds, sticks, and sticks are about the only valid things you can 'bury' a cache under. The cache itelf is not inserted into the ground in those cases. Your's is.

 

However I also do find the evolution of the guidelines have made getting caches approved more difficult. My job as a cache owner is to place viable caches. That may or may not conflict with one or more listing sites, site specific rules. By way of example, this summer I will probably place a cache in Fairbanks. That will be a vacation cache by this sites rules. Because I believe in maintaining a cache I'll arrange for a local to take care of that cache. However as before I will not release the name of the people helping me do this. That's my choice. This site has a rule "Thou shalt tell us the name of think cache maintainer". The guideline itself is softer on the point and uses "should" but when the ruling came down it was shall. Odds are it won't be approved on this site. I'll still come here first, get my disapproval, then to elsewhere.

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In doing research, I also found the same thing as my astute colleague, Keystone.

 

You mentioned South Beach. South Pointe Park and Rickenbacker Causeway are different locations. I think South Pointe Park would be a hard place to put a cache that would not be found, but it probably could be done. Rickenbacker had a cache, but it was presumed muggled and removed and was a vacation cache (and you know how that goes; they can't fix it).

 

If you click here, you will see a map of the area under discussion. Zoom out. Right now South Beach, South Pointe and Rickenbacker are wide open since your other approved caches have disappeared and you have not replaced them, and other caches in these areas are gone too. I don't see a problem frankly.

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since your other approved caches have disappeared and you have not replaced them, and other caches in these areas are gone too. I don't see a problem frankly.

But does the cacher solomnly swear to replace them *this time?*

 

That may be a different topic entirely, but geez... why work so hard to place a new one when your old ones have not been replaced?

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So, in summary:

 

4 of your six micros were listed on the website. They went missing, they were disabled, they weren't replaced, and they were archived along with an invitation to contact the reviewer if the caches were ever replaced.

 

Two of your micros were not listed on the website. One was placed in an off-limits location (near a police station - a government building) and the other was 191 feet from a different cache.

 

Amazing how often people come here to moan about the approval proccess and/or approvers, then you hear the other side of the story :rolleyes: .

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So, in summary:

 

4 of your six micros were listed on the website. They went missing, they were disabled, they weren't replaced, and they were archived along with an invitation to contact the reviewer if the caches were ever replaced.

 

Two of your micros were not listed on the website. One was placed in an off-limits location (near a police station - a government building) and the other was 191 feet from a different cache.

 

Amazing how often people come here to moan about the approval proccess and/or approvers, then you hear the other side of the story :rolleyes: .

Isn't that the truth. I'll bet KA more often than not wishes he could ....

... reach out and help these people more than he does already. :)

 

grab.gif

 

:P:D

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