Please,please, Please Log Dnf's

June 8, 2004

We logged a DNF on a cache the other day. This morning I revisted the Cache page to see if there was any other activity on it. There was. It was disabled. Why? Two other cachers had logged DNF's on the cache, both having searched several days before me! But they obviously submitted their logs AFTER I did! I never would have spent 30 minutes looking for it, if it had two DNF's (considering what the clue was)... Now , I know why people don't log their DNF's-- It's fear that the next day, they'll read a log like this: " My 107 year old wheelchair-bound grandmother, who is blind, spotted it from 100 yards away--easiest cache we ever found in over 8,000 finds, it was right out in the open, only a drooling idiot would have trouble with this one." I know a lot of people don't log DNF's, because of the number of logs I've read that state "second (or third) attempt at this one" with no previous DNF logs... I just hope that some people who don't log DNF's would consider doing so, in a timely manner, and that people who log finds after DNF's try to be kind (I know it's hard)...--LEAD DOG & EARTHDOG

I have logged a DNF and then had a post like that show up the next day, it was kinda imbarrasing because the local cachers dont really like me that much.

NOMR

June 8, 2004

I logged a DNF a couple days ago. Went back to the cache page and the cache owner had made the encrypted hint more specific. Guess I'll go look for it again.

June 8, 2004

73 Finds, 13 DNFs - and to my shame I must admit, that I didn't log my first two DNFs. Makes the same ratio as mentioned by briansnat: 5:1. Pretty normal, I think.

So if you din't log DNFs until now, why not start doing it now?

- You mustn't be ashamed to be "cache blind" sometimes, it's part of the game, we all experience this

- A DNF is no way an order to the cache owner to rush out looking for it

- DNF stories are just as interesting to read as other logs

24.7k · June 8, 2004

..." My 107 year old wheelchair-bound grandmother, who is blind, spotted it from 100 yards away--easiest cache we ever found in over 8,000 finds, it was right out in the open, only a drooling idiot would have trouble with this one."...

Ha! Those are exactly the caches I can't find.

June 8, 2004

SixDogTeam is so lame! If it wasn't for me, he'd have about 40 more DNF's than he does now. He has no patience. He took me to one cache site once, that was a micro, the GPSr took him to the middle of a mowed field, he looks down at his boots, then straight up in the sky, says:"Nope, I don't see a cache here!" and sprints back to the truck, he darn near left me there! You can't believe all these stories you hear in the forums...

2.3k · June 8, 2004

Earthdog Patrick Posted on Jun 8 2004, 11:42 AM
SixDogTeam is so lame!

Patrick's having a grumpy-growly day. I wouldn't take him with me to the post office this morning, so he's ma <_< d at me. I'm taking away his computer privileges...

June 9, 2004

Okay, so I am showing how dumb I am, but how does one know how many dnf's they have? I can't find it listed anywhere and when I go back and look over my finds it doesn't show the notes or do not finds, just the finds. It doesn't show anywhere for stats does it?

2.4k · June 9, 2004

Okay, so I am showing how dumb I am, but how does one know how many dnf's they have? I can't find it listed anywhere and when I go back and look over my finds it doesn't show the notes or do not finds, just the finds. It doesn't show anywhere for stats does it?

Nope, pretty sure you gotta click the "show all logs for caches" link, then go through the list and manually count the purple faces............

38.2k · June 9, 2004

You just go to your cache page, click on Geocaches. Then show: "Didn't Find It" and it will list all your DNFs'

Edited June 9, 2004 by briansnat

June 9, 2004

I just spent over an hour looking for a microcache, which was archived today because the cache had gone missing.

What RILES ME! RILES ME! Is that, in the logs, there was a string of smiley faces, by people who had logged it as FOUND, and then, in the text, they had mentioned: "cache is missing!!!"

Of course, I had downloaded the coords in a rush, without completely reading their logs--I just took the smiley faces as prima facie evidence that the cache was there. That's how these people crank up their stats--by logging finds on missing caches, and then mentioning that they're gone.

I am livid.

June 9, 2004

What RILES ME! RILES ME! Is that, in the logs, there was a string of smiley faces, by people who had logged it as FOUND, and then, in the text, they had mentioned: "cache is missing!!!" ....
....That's how these people crank up their stats--by logging finds on missing caches, and then mentioning that they're gone.

If this is true, it's deplorable behavior and makes me take "found stats" even LESS seriously than I have been. I know my count is true, but I'm not so sure what other people use as a standard for themselves.

I believe a previous poster said to wear DNF's with pride. Heck yeah. They are battle scars. Ok, so I'm getting carried away, but there is a story of some kind behind each DNF and that's what matters.

When I read logs like " GPS lead me right to GZ. I found cache in less than a minute. Thanks for the hunt".

WHAT hunt? It sounds like it jumped in your lap. Those aren't any fun.

38.2k · June 9, 2004

I just spent over an hour looking for a microcache, which was archived today because the cache had gone missing.

What RILES ME! RILES ME! Is that, in the logs, there was a string of smiley faces, by people who had logged it as FOUND, and then, in the text, they had mentioned: "cache is missing!!!"

Of course, I had downloaded the coords in a rush, without completely reading their logs--I just took the smiley faces as prima facie evidence that the cache was there. That's how these people crank up their stats--by logging finds on missing caches, and then mentioning that they're gone.

I am livid.

I bring up scenarios like this one every time someone says people who log fake finds are only cheating themselves.

If this is true, it's deplorable behavior and makes me take "found stats" even LESS seriously than I have been.

I guess you haven't read this thread.

This post from that thread shows both why logging fake finds his not a victimless practice and why logging DNF's is important:

I'm posting to illustrate the misleading effects of false smileys. This was the last find log entered on a cache 200 miles from my home, which I chose to visit while on vacation based on reviewing pocket query results:

Found the spot based on your picture. The coordinates were dead on. It seems you and [another nearby cache from the same hider] were both stolen as neither exists at this time. It is such a great spot. Thanks for the walk.

And here is my log, from 8 days later:

We spent a good 20 to 30 minutes searching for this cache, and then gave up because we were late for dinner. Reading the cache page now, I've looked at the spoiler picture and the cache was nowhere in that area. I was misled by the log entry left by the prior 'finders.' I use the 'Watcher' software to sort out recent not-found logs when deciding which caches to hunt for, but I don't read the log entries. We are logging a not-found on this cache because we did not find the cache and did not sign the logbook. We hope that this log will assist future seekers of this cache, and alert the owner to the need for a maintenance trip to this cache, or to temporarily disable or archive it.

The following day, a third geocacher posted this log. I do wish they had logged their prior DNF; again, this would have spared me a trip to hunt for a nonexistent cache.

Just read yesterdays's cacher's experience. This makes us feel better. We attempted to find the cache [previously] with no luck (it also was later in the evening for us! - thinking it would be fairly easy and time wouldn't be a problem). We went back again tonight.... Our GPS said we should have been right on. We really trampled that place down and it probably looks a little strange or obvious. Although, I can't see how anyone could randomly find it - if it's still there. We did see a baby bunny, tho.

The cache was archived a week later by the volunteer cache reviewer for that state. Granted, I could have read the cache page, but I prefer not to read the prior logs as they sometimes contain spoilers. I go by just the smileys and frownies that show up in "Watcher's" log summary column.

Edited June 9, 2004 by briansnat

June 9, 2004

Oh yes, it's true--those "BTW, cache is missing!" smiley faces. Here's the link: take a looksie.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...ba-8730e5a3579e

Edited June 9, 2004 by prettynwitty

2.3k · June 9, 2004

prettynwitty Posted on Jun 9 2004, 07:07 AM
Oh yes, it's true--those "BTW, cache is missing!" smiley faces. Here's the link: take a looksie.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...ba-8730e5a3579e

What's really interesting to us, is, that besides the three cheaters that logged finds on a missing cache is the fact that one of the hiders, admitting he was a hider in his log, logged a find on his own cache! Holy Cow! What kind of people cache down there?

June 9, 2004

I usually post DNF's - but I then keep the cache on my watchlist.

once someone find's it I then delete my DNF and get back out there to find it!

1.1k · June 9, 2004

I fell into a 'grey area' this weekend:

We were hunting a cache that hadn't had a log written for it in over a month (curious, that). Spent a fair amount of time looking for this 'micro-in-the-woods' but eventually left the cache site for an hour or so, deciding to go hunt some 1/1's to appease our downtrodden souls before we retackled this particular cache. While back at the car, I read the last 5 logs and re-read the cache description and had pretty much decided I MUST have just overlooked it because it was pretty clear where the cache should be.

I talked my caching partner into making one more run for the cache so back we went. I gave us 10 minutes.

We didn't find it.

As we were leaving, she went down one path, and I went down another (neither leading to the car) and on my side of the path I found the cache, or, rather, the cache remnants spread throughout the underbrush, about 75 feet away:

Container (black altoids tin), the cache pencil (golf size), a geo-business card, and on the inside of the tin was a magnet from one of the local cachers who'd visited the cache 3.5 months prior. We couldn't find the log book.

Because of the state of the goods, I took them with me when I left.

I DID post a find on the cache page, as did my partner for the day. But you know, is this a real find or a DNF/FoundtheGoods/SBA kind of a 'find'?

Edited to add: The owner of the cache DID archive this cache very early the next day so it's not a case of people going out and looking for it (but it could be a case for folks NOT logging their DNF's and making us go out there and look for the darn thing!)

Edited again to be a little more clear, since obviously, as per Sax's note, the question he first answered wasn't the thrust of the issue.

-=-

michelle

Edited June 9, 2004 by CurmudgeonlyGal

9.4k · June 9, 2004

So, I have a little teeny, tiny question about this logging DNF's, especially when the cache is obviously NOT there...

If the cache is obviously not there, you obviously can't find it and should log it as a DNF

9.4k · June 9, 2004

As we were leaving, she went down one path, and I went down another (neither leading to the car) and on my side of the path I found the cache, or, rather, the cache remnants spread throughout the underbrush, about 75 feet away:

Container (black altoids tin), the cache pencil (golf size), a geo-business card, and on the inside of the tin was a magnet from one of the local cachers who'd visited the cache 3.5 months prior. We couldn't find the log book.

On this separate occasion, you found the remains of the cache and should log it as a find, then log it as "Should be archived". If the owner decides to replace it, he can delete the SBA note.

2k · June 9, 2004

once someone find's it I then delete my DNF and get back out there to find it!

I wish you'd leave the DNF as a history of searches for the cache. Why not? :lol:

June 9, 2004

I try to log all of them, that way the owner can look to see if it's missing or not, maybe mine will be the one that convinces the owner to go check :lol:

3.8k · June 10, 2004

I fell into a 'grey area' this weekend:

We were hunting a cache that hadn't had a log written for it in over a month (curious, that). Spent a fair amount of time looking for this 'micro-in-the-woods' but eventually left the cache site for an hour or so, deciding to go hunt some 1/1's to appease our downtrodden souls before we retackled this particular cache. While back at the car, I read the last 5 logs and re-read the cache description and had pretty much decided I MUST have just overlooked it because it was pretty clear where the cache should be.

I talked my caching partner into making one more run for the cache so back we went. I gave us 10 minutes.

We didn't find it.

As we were leaving, she went down one path, and I went down another (neither leading to the car) and on my side of the path I found the cache, or, rather, the cache remnants spread throughout the underbrush, about 75 feet away:

Container (black altoids tin), the cache pencil (golf size), a geo-business card, and on the inside of the tin was a magnet from one of the local cachers who'd visited the cache 3.5 months prior. We couldn't find the log book.

Because of the state of the goods, I took them with me when I left.

I DID post a find on the cache page, as did my partner for the day. But you know, is this a real find or a DNF/FoundtheGoods/SBA kind of a 'find'?

I logged a find on the exact same situation. I say keep it a find, you did FIND the cache. If you found where it was "supposed to be" but no cache, that's different, as you really DON'T Know where it was supposed to be.

Here's my log:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...e3-7863f52b7a92

3.8k · June 10, 2004

I usually post DNF's - but I then keep the cache on my watchlist.
once someone find's it I then delete my DNF and get back out there to find it!

NO! leave the DNFs, they don't hurt anything, only help add to the "history" of the cache. :lol:

1.1k · June 10, 2004

We log all DNF's and leave them on the pages. Now. At first, we went back and rewrote them after finding the cache.

And as for going to your "MY CACHE PAGE" and getting your total DNF's. The count will include caches you have went back and found. Ours showed 64 DNF's but we have since went back and found 23 of those, 24 are archived and the rest are way out of the area. But. maybe someday.......

And as for that smiley face on caches they did not found. Just take them out and shoot them. Simple and to the point. That has got to be my biggest pet peeve about this game. As well as owners logging their own caches as finds.

logscaler.

June 11, 2004

I logged a DNF the other day, and the cache owner deleted it. I guess my fault was saying there might be something amiss with his/her end of things instead of saying I was too dumb to find it like the DNF right before mine said he/she was.

9.4k · June 11, 2004

I logged a DNF the other day, and the cache owner deleted it. I guess my fault was saying there might be something amiss with his/her end of things instead of saying I was too dumb to find it like the DNF right before mine said he/she was.

If you didn't find it, how can you be sure if something is amiss?

June 11, 2004

What should you log if you go back to a cache that you found before, say to check out a TB, or with a friend, and the cache is missing. My friend isn't a cacher really, I was just showing them, so they wouldn't be logging a DNF. I logged notes on both caches, since I had logged finds on them in the past...

wwYouDo?

June 11, 2004

What should you log if you go back to a cache that you found before, say to check out a TB, or with a friend, and the cache is missing. My friend isn't a cacher really, I was just showing them, so they wouldn't be logging a DNF. I logged notes on both caches, since I had logged finds on them in the past...
wwYouDo?

Sounds like a note to me. If the friend was a cacher, and you were coming along for the ride, but hanging back while they looked for the cache, I'd say a note for you and a DNF for them once you verified it wasn't where you remembered it (or close enough).

2.3k · June 11, 2004

Any info logged about a cache is useful to both searchers and owners...

7.2k · June 11, 2004

What should you log if you go back to a cache that you found before, say to check out a TB, or with a friend, and the cache is missing. My friend isn't a cacher really, I was just showing them, so they wouldn't be logging a DNF. I logged notes on both caches, since I had logged finds on them in the past...
wwYouDo?

I think I've made my opinion clear before. If there is this kind of a problem I'd post an SBA.

People are too timid to say, "Yo! There is a serious problem with your cache!" That's what an SBA does. A note OTOH, to me, is for stuff that's not that important, stuff that is ordinary. A missing cache is not ordinary.

Remember, posting an SBA does not archive the cache, but alerts folks there is a serious problem--like the cache missing.

Of course, if you call up the cache page and it's been taken offline, then I probably wouldn't post anything unless I had something interesting to say.

June 11, 2004

You just go to your cache page, click on Geocaches. Then show: "Didn't Find It" and it will list all your DNFs'

I'd like to see a little modification of this that shows when it was last found - then it's easier to see if it wasn't missing (or has been now replaced and found) - kind of like when you view the caches you have found

3.8k · June 11, 2004

Please,please, Please Log Dnf's

OK

June 13, 2004

What RILES ME! RILES ME! Is that, in the logs, there was a string of smiley faces, by people who had logged it as FOUND, and then, in the text, they had mentioned: "cache is missing!!!"

Here's a similar example. Found, because it used to be there. (Edited somewhat to protect the guilty)

June 5 by...

Should have read the log. Looked around with no luck.

[view this log on a separate page]

:huh: May 13 by...

looked and looked found area i thought it was in but no cache so i call a friend ... who had found it in the past. he meet me there and its gone. im loging it as a find since he told me i was right were i thought it was.

1.8k · June 13, 2004

What should you log if you go back to a cache that you found before, say to check out a TB, or with a friend, and the cache is missing. My friend isn't a cacher really, I was just showing them, so they wouldn't be logging a DNF. I logged notes on both caches, since I had logged finds on them in the past...
wwYouDo?

I would log a DNF even if I had found the cache before. I mean, you didn't find it, right? I tend to read DNF's more closely than I read notes, especially if they are teh most recent log. I often don't have the time to read every single recent log, especially when I'm power-caching, but I DO read every recent DNF when deciding if the cache is worth pursuing. The distinction between a note and a DNF is critical when using programs like GSAK to sort through a large query of caches.

June 13, 2004

Would it be too ironic to leave a hand-painted T-shirt with a purple face and text like "DNF... and proud of it" on the pocket, as a FTF prize? Would anybody take it? Would they admit it in the online logs if they had? How would you log that cache? If you found it, would you be allowed to take the T-shirt? Sorta like "All those not here, speak up." Erk?

9.5k · June 13, 2004

You just go to your cache page, click on Geocaches. Then show: "Didn't Find It" and it will list all your DNFs'

I'd like to see a little modification of this that shows when it was last found - then it's easier to see if it wasn't missing (or has been now replaced and found) - kind of like when you view the caches you have found

That doesn't work if the person that DNF'd put it down as a Find as noted in harleycache's post. Then the cache has a last found date posted on it which is very misleading.

harleycache Posted on Jun 13 2004, 04:10 AM
QUOTE (prettynwitty @ Jun 8 2004, 11:26 PM)

What RILES ME! RILES ME! Is that, in the logs, there was a string of smiley faces, by people who had logged it as FOUND, and then, in the text, they had mentioned: "cache is missing!!!"

Here's a similar example. Found, because it used to be there. (Edited somewhat to protect the guilty)

June 5 by...

Should have read the log. Looked around with no luck.

[view this log on a separate page]

May 13 by...

looked and looked found area i thought it was in but no cache so i call a friend ... who had found it in the past. he meet me there and its gone. im loging it as a find since he told me i was right were i thought it was.

July 15, 2004

Not trying to bump an old thread, I just had something to say about this topic and figured ....

I don't check my e-mail very regularly, but I DO check my cache listings almost daily. People who log DNF's allow me to know if there's a problem with one of my caches, where an e-mail-only alert would not.

On a somewhat related note, I would like it if the "My Cache Page" page would list the date of the most recent activity, not just the most recent find. I am pretty sure that notes and DNF's do NOT show up on those dates. In other words, without actually going in and looking at the logs, you can't know at a glance that anything other than a find has been logged on a particular cache.

Just my .02, and thank you to everyone who posts their DNF's.

July 15, 2004

I don't worry about a DNF, even though some of those I've posted were just a case of being "cache blind".

However, I did find the remnants of a vandalized one - can't remember if I called it a find or not, but have been further down the learning curve now than then.

That one, the owner replaced it a few weeks later and moved it about 50 feet, and I thought I'd be "first to find" the resurrected one. Alas, the muggles beat me to it, so for that one I posted a note and took some pictures. I think I said in the note something about CSI was who we needed with this one

Anyway, it's now archived. I sat about a half block away after finding the 2nd remnants and observed muggles swarming over the likely hiding place like fire ants in a disturbed mound.

But my opinion now is - indeed, log DNFs (and obvious vandalisms especially) promptly.

When the price of gas shot thru the roof this past spring, failing to do that promptly, as someone else mentioned in the thread, isn't a "victimless crime".

Even with my roller skate getting 50 mpg it's a disappointment to drive even 10 miles to discover a cache has been gone for a couple of weeks.

July 15, 2004

More than happy to lend my whip to this dead horse....

Here's my reasoning:

If I have a cache placed, I'd like to know what is going on with it (for good or for bad). Sometimes the DNF logs are some of the most well-written, humorous, and informative parts of a cache page -- I love reading them on my pages.

Back to the Golden Rule: Do unto others...

Translated: If I can't find a cache, I'll log a DNF (sometimes several for the same cache, if there are multiple unsuccessful attempts...). This is one way to keep the cache owners informed.

The other part: I like to place fairly devious caches -- not impossible, but more difficult than the local average. The cachers in the area know this, and are ready for the difficult hunt -- and ready to crow their finds (or whine about DNFs) on the cache page. This is one of the great parts of our game! I just can't see placing a cache that is likely to generate DNFs (and expect others to log their DNFs) if I'm not willing to log one myself.

Rambling pair of pennies, that...

July 15, 2004

It all boils down to what you consider as "one attempt".

1 attempt does not necessarily equal 1 visit.

For harder caches or when you run out of time, one attempt can consist of several visits. Just because you divided your attempt into more than one visits because of time or other constraints doesn't mean you have to log a DNF after each visit. That's completely unnecesssary. Once you feel that your attempt is finished, you should log the outcome. In the middle of your attempt no logs are necessary. It's not a blog where you report on your progress.

E.g. there is this extremely hard multi near where I live. Difficulty 4.5 and it is indicated that it requires good eyes and tricky thinking. Lots of DNFs in the logs. Owner posted a note that all parts are in order just a day before I went out for it. I made 3 or 4 relatively short visits (didn't want to stay long because it is a muggle-saturated area), every time with new ideas about where the first part could be and what I want to check. I didn't submit any logs after these visits. Finally I ran out of new ideas and gave up for the time being. I then posted a DNF. In my mind these 3 or 4 visits constitute one attempt, not 3 or 4 attempts.

Or let's say you have a 4-stage multi and you find 2 parts, start searching for the 3rd but run out of time and come back the next day for the 3rd and 4th. Should you log a DNF after the first visit? No. After you finished your attempt and don't plan to go back within reasonable time (or ever) you should log.

Edited July 15, 2004 by as77

1.1k · July 15, 2004

You can count on me to log my DNF. I have several people who laugh at me for doing so because they think that it's an embarrassment to log such logs. I agree that it's a valuable log for the owners of the cache.

7.3k · July 15, 2004

I haven't read all the logs, but I just wanted to say, I don't always log my DNF's.

July 15, 2004

Something that we did last week was log a note -- although people before (and now after us) logged a DNF -- because it was in such a high traffic area we didn't feel we really had the opportunity to search for it. I hate to log a DNF if I don't feel like we looked enough. The reason for the note was at least to let the owner know that a cursory search didn't scare up a micro!

We are right around the corner from it and I will be emailing the cache owner to see if I can get additional clues to verify if it is still around..

July 16, 2004

I logged a DNF on one of YOUR caches, SixDogTeam! All I found at THAT cache site was poison ivy and in my zealousy (is that a word??? LOL) to find the cache, I didn't realize it was poison ivy I was pawing through, until it was too late!

I'll be back to find it after the frost is on the pumpkin, though!

July 16, 2004

I just logged three DNF's (two logs) in two days on the same cache.....hope I didn't over do it. Boardwalk Bonanza 04

Please,please, Please Log Dnf's

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