Please,please, Please Log Dnf's

2.3k · June 6, 2004

We logged a DNF on a cache the other day. This morning I revisted the Cache page to see if there was any other activity on it. There was. It was disabled. Why? Two other cachers had logged DNF's on the cache, both having searched several days before me! But they obviously submitted their logs AFTER I did! I never would have spent 30 minutes looking for it, if it had two DNF's (considering what the clue was)... Now , I know why people don't log their DNF's-- It's fear that the next day, they'll read a log like this: " My 107 year old wheelchair-bound grandmother, who is blind, spotted it from 100 yards away--easiest cache we ever found in over 8,000 finds, it was right out in the open, only a drooling idiot would have trouble with this one." I know a lot of people don't log DNF's, because of the number of logs I've read that state "second (or third) attempt at this one" with no previous DNF logs... I just hope that some people who don't log DNF's would consider doing so, in a timely manner, and that people who log finds after DNF's try to be kind (I know it's hard)...--LEAD DOG & EARTHDOG :unsure:

June 6, 2004

We logged a DNF on a cache the other day. This morning I revisted the Cache page to see if there was any other activity on it. There was. It was disabled. Why? Two other cachers had logged DNF's on the cache, both having searched several days before me! But they obviously submitted their logs AFTER I did!

I've had the same thing happen to me at least a half dozen times but I doubt the problem will ever go away. Far to many cachers seem afraid of the DNF. I don't get it.

June 6, 2004

We got a purple face on a one star yesterday. The cache owner said it was still there too. No fear of the DNF. I think they are quite helpful to owners and other cachers.

2.4k · June 6, 2004

Far to many cachers seem afraid of the DNF. I don't get it.

Too many people look at a DNF as a blemish on their record, instead of as valuable information for the cache owner and their fellow cachers.

2.3k · June 6, 2004

Too many people look at a DNF as a blemish on their record, instead of as valuable information for the cache owner and their fellow cachers.

I don't see how they can consider it a blemish, if the cache is not there...Part of my proud stats are for FDNFBFTF (First did not find before first to find)

June 6, 2004

If I get out of the car and search for any length of time and don't find it the DNF gets officially logged. Not too proud to share my defeats, and I use the DNF as motivation to get back out there and get the matching smiley to "erase" the DNF!

And I also want to notify owners of any possible problems with the cache.

2.6k · June 6, 2004

Now , I know why people don't log their DNF's-- It's fear that the next day, they'll read a log like this: " My 107 year old wheelchair-bound grandmother, who is blind, spotted it from 100 yards away--easiest cache we ever found in over 8,000 finds, it was right out in the open, only a drooling idiot would have trouble with this one."

:unsure:

I do log my DNFs. Informing the cache owner and the rest of the community is important enough in itself, but my biggest reason to log them is documenting my own private geocaching history. It's nice to read years later (and even before!) my old logs and remember certain trips I made here and there.

June 6, 2004

I always log my DNFs. I figure it is helpful to the owner and future cachers to know if several cachers could not find a cache, and my DNF stories are usually pretty funny and I think it's worthwhile to give the cache owner a laugh! :bad:

3k · June 6, 2004

Some of my best cache hunts were DNFs I think I've logged 29 DNF's. But you also have to keep in mind that not everyone hikes with their PC strapped to their backs and a 1500 mile long piece of cable with a generator on a trailer, or a herd of hamsters running around on a wheel. And not everyone has a handheld web enabled device. I just took a 3 week, 4000 mile trip, and wasn't able to log all my finds on the road. I could only log when I reached a place with internet access. So not all logs can happen immediately. Some people cache while on vacation, and log when they get home. I do agree that all logs should be done in a timely manner - WHEN POSSIBLE, but it isn't always possible. Also, I did one cache that I got to within 20 feet of and declared it too lame to find so I walked away. Those I don't log, because I didn't look, and wouldn't have anything nice to write about it anyway.

June 6, 2004

Guilty as charged! I just logged a DNF that I was planning to returning to at a latter date. Turns out 2 other people had DNF's on it so it is probably gone. In the future I'ss just swallow my pride and DNF on the first failure.

June 6, 2004

I do log my DNFs. Informing the cache owner and the rest of the community is important enough in itself, but my biggest reason to log them is documenting my own private geocaching history. It's nice to read years later (and even before!) my old logs and remember certain trips I made here and there.

Great point. I agree with that completely.

June 6, 2004

I firmly believe in logging DNF's. I have no problem with my ego being bruised by admitting failure. If I didn't find it, I didn't find it. Does that fact change if I don't record it online? No....it only prevents others from knowing that I failed; possibly giving them a heads-up about what obstacles they might encounter (learn from my mistakes); and making the cache owner aware of a possible problem with the cache.

Record your search online, whether you ultimately found the cache or not.

2.3k · June 6, 2004

Amen!!

June 6, 2004

That is an amazing looking dog in your avatar. What a beauty. :bad:

June 6, 2004

Too many people look at a DNF as a blemish on their record, instead of as valuable information for the cache owner and their fellow cachers.

I don't see how they can consider it a blemish, if the cache is not there (Emphasis by Gizmo)...Part of my proud stats are for FDNFBFTF (First did not find before first to find)

I think you answered your own question, SixdogTeam. It's not a blemish, IF it's not there. But many times, it IS there and as such, some would see that as a blemish.

As for us...we have blemishes. So what? It helps me remember which ones I need to go back and search harder for. It's all part of the game and that includes logging DNF's even on the simple ones that are really there!

2.4k · June 6, 2004

I recently logged my first DNF on a cache that I gave up on because I had searched everywhere I could think to look. All the previous logs for that cache were just a bunch of smiley faces, so I felt rather silly. I thought I must have been missing something really obvious. But a previous finder went and checked on it after my DNF, and confirmed it was missing. The cache has now been disabled.

I know a lot of people don't log DNF's, because of the number of logs I've read that state "second (or third) attempt at this one" with no previous DNF logs...

Two other caches took us a couple of tries. We didn't log DNFs after the first attempts, mostly because we weren't done looking yet -- we had just run out of time in one case (it was a 3-part multi that we were attemping during a work lunch hour), and it started pouring raining in the other case. I don't feel guilty about not logging DNFs for those, because we eventually did go back and finish them. (We mentioned in the logs that it took a couple of attempts.) I don't think it's necessary to log every pause in the search as a DNF.

June 6, 2004

I don't pretend that my notes will provide invaluable insight to those who may come after me, but I've never had any problems with DNFing a cache if I go after it and come up zero. This one took us three tries, and I even felt pretty stupid after finding it in a place I should have seen it in the first two times.

As others have noted, a DNF on its own may not necessarily indicate a problem, but several of them, particularly if they mention something that may indicate a problem, are a pretty good flag for the owner to go check on the cache. I've even checked on other peoples' caches that I'd found previously, since I was going to be in the area anyway, and they had a few DNFs in recent history.

June 6, 2004

Far to many cachers seem afraid of the DNF. I don't get it.

Too many people look at a DNF as a blemish on their record, instead of as valuable information for the cache owner and their fellow cachers.

it is too bad too.

personally, I don't really let me ego be tied into this activity. It is fun, but the only person I compete with is my husband and that is just for fun. besides, he always wins everything anyhow....you don't think he will start wondering about that anytime soon, do you? :bad:

June 6, 2004

I got frustrated last weekend after looking for a micro, and came here and complained about it. Yeah, we're still *really* new to geocaching, yet we expected to be able to find this micro with a 5-star difficulty level. Needless to say, we didn't. And did we log it as a DNF? No.

So then I posted about my frustration with hard-to-find micros and admitted to all the DNFs I've never logged, and man was I chided! I realize my mistake in not logging them, because I know how helpful they can be if the cache is really in trouble. All the ones I haven't logged have since been found by other, more capable cachers, so the main problem here is my ego. I'm one of those people that doesn't want to look like an idiot for logging a DNF on an easy-(or relatively-easy-)to-find cache.

I've learned my lesson, and will log my DNFs in the future. And yes, I'll continue to feel like an idiot when a deaf mute with no arms or legs can find the same cache from the road within minutes of me giving up.

Paula :bad:

June 6, 2004

I recently logged a FDNF and all the other logs were basically saying it was an easy find. I haven't checked yet to see if anyone has found it since I was there, but I'll go back. If my G/F had been with me, she'd have probably found it -- she has a way with those.

By the way, FDNF -- the opposite of FTF. Mine was the First Did Not Find.

5.6k · June 6, 2004

Another reason you may not see previous DNF logs is, at least here in the NW, some edit the DNF log to a Found. This removes the frowny face from their list. Most though do leave the previous log in it, just add the new action.

I've also seen FTNF used (First To Not Find).

June 6, 2004

I have logged DNFs but many times I don't. I just assume that if I can't find it then it must be me. I don't want to have a cache owner think they need to go check on it. And I don't want to turn a potential cacher away from one if it is still there.

Like I said if I can't find it my first thought is that I just can't find it. On a couple I have thought they might be missing and have then logged a DNF but I just say that.

It is very rare that I have said that I think it is missing. I don't want my lack of ability to find a cache to cause anybody problems or make someone miss a potential chance to find one.

2k · June 6, 2004

I've logged every DNF, including one where I could see the micro, but couldn't get to it because it was encased in ice.

Maybe if we had a stat "Valiant Attempts" for DNFs (with a new grand total for "cache searches"), the others would be more likely to log their true experiences.

When I get my e-mail notifications of watched caches, I read the DNFs first. They are almost always more interesting.

4.7k · June 6, 2004

hey, i LOVE my DNF logs...

it's just that if you're hoping to use mine as useful current information, you've got another thing coming. my last DNF is still in my log queue, which is at the moment backed up to april 26.

so if you want to find out whether i found a thing or not, you can eiher wait until i'm caught up in my logs, or you can call me and ask.

2.3k · June 7, 2004

GPSKitty Posted on Jun 6 2004, 12:11 PM
That is an amazing looking dog in your avatar. What a beauty.

Thank you. His name is Bandit, he is an AKC Siberian Husky we rescued , one of our ten. He's a tough guy and his main complaint is about cachers who don't log DNF's (I think I have to stay on topic.)He has his own cache, too, part of our "Reservoir Dogs" series...

:bad:

Edited June 7, 2004 by SixDogTeam

June 7, 2004

:bad: hello, my name is urbo and i cant find geocaches.. (crowd says HI URBO!)

i log DNF's. whatever.. this is a game. its fun. ego schmeego...

June 7, 2004

I'll log a DNF if I gave it my best shot. However, if I couldn't get close due to some muggles or other complication then I'll just log a note (especially if the comments help the story on the cache). There is only once where I logged nothing. There wasn't any story and I gave up before getting close.

Then there were the two DNFs I logged back-to-back only to have somebody else find it!! That hurt since the 2nd DNF was a 2+ hour search in the area (didn't help that the GPS kept losing the signal).

Its just part of the hunt. A piece of the story. Go ahead and tell about the time you slipped on the banana peel, hit your head on that fake rock and woke up 72 hours later in the hospital under armed guard. Both the CIA and FBI waiting to question you as to country of origin, plans, and why you hit your head on a fake rock! Or did I dream that last night?

2k · June 7, 2004

That is an amazing looking dog in your avatar. What a beauty.

Don't be fooled Kitty. He'd pee on you as soon as look at you!

1.7k · June 7, 2004

If I search for the cache and don't find it, I log a DNF. I probably log 1 DNF for every 10 finds. No big deal. I also keep every one of my DNF on my watchlist to see if it's still there or not.

Just checked my stats and it's 1 DNF for every 5 finds. Still no big deal, as some of the caches were MIA before I started searching. And most of the DNF's, I've gone back and found them later.

Edited June 7, 2004 by Mauison

38.2k · June 7, 2004

I don't see how they can consider it a blemish, if the cache is not there...

I don't see it as a blemish whether the cache is there or not. I don't think anybody finds every cache, every time. Even the mighty CCCooperAgency DNF'ed a 1/1 that I thought was a piece of cake. And I've DNF'ed caches that nobody else seemed to have a problem with.

I have 59 DNF's. With 230 some finds, that's close to a 5:1 ratio.

3.8k · June 7, 2004

I once had a bad day caching and missed two caches.

logged both as DNF.

Put them on watch list.

Next morning got up to find BOTH caches had been found!

By someone who found their first two caches that day.

The same two I DNF'd.

:rolleyes:

7.2k · June 7, 2004

No problem logging DNFs here. We logged a DNF over the weekend and somebody come along and found it less than an hour after we were there.

You can't find them all... the first time.

...or the second.

...or sometimes, ever.

I do remember a thread recently about people not logged a DNF unless they've called out forensics, had several hours and multiple trips--and then defended their actions because they didn't want to scare off future hunters. The opening post in this thread is a prime example of the reason you should log your DNFs.

If you log your Finds you should log your DNFs. Simple as that.

June 7, 2004

Agree, logging DNFs is important but then the owner should respond to them, or at least find out a bit more. I have about 4 DNFs still in my log and so far *no* response from the owners.

If we can then so should they...

38.2k · June 7, 2004

Agree, logging DNFs is important but then the owner should respond to them, or at least find out a bit more. I have about 4 DNFs still in my log and so far *no* response from the owners.

If we can then so should they...

I don't think a DNF requires any response. What exactly are you looking for?

If there are a few in a row, the owner should check on the cache and post a note on the page updating the status (missing, or still there), but beyond that I can't think of any other response required.

Edited June 7, 2004 by briansnat

2.3k · June 7, 2004

QUOTE (GPSKitty @ Jun 6 2004, 12:11 PM)
That is an amazing looking dog in your avatar. What a beauty.

Don't be fooled Kitty. He'd pee on you as soon as look at you!

Actually, Torry, the Siberians don't pee on you. But the Wolfdogs will sneak up behind you and try to mark you. It's a big joke with them...BTW, they always log their DNF's also... :rolleyes:

7.2k · June 7, 2004

Agree, logging DNFs is important but then the owner should respond to them, or at least find out a bit more. I have about 4 DNFs still in my log and so far *no* response from the owners.

If we can then so should they...

I don't think a DNF requires any response. What exactly are you looking for?

If there are a few in a row, the owner should check on the cache and post a note on the page updating the status (missing, or still there), but beyond that I can't think of any other response required.

I agree. A DNF is not a command for the owner to go and check on the cache. It's a record of your unsuccessful attempt at finding the cache.

I've got one cache that has several DNFs and every time I've checked on it, it has still been in its cozy little hiding spot.

While I advocate a DNF logged if there is any problem with the cache hunt that caused you to not find the cache, a DNF does not mean there is a problem with the cache hunt.

2.3k · June 7, 2004

The same day that I logged my lone DNF for the missing? cache, I FOUND a cache that had two previous DNF's on it--Due to a seasonal terrain change, not the owner's fault, one of the hints was throwing searchers off. I emailed the owner and he altered the misleading hint... The DNF's did not mean the cache was MIA, but they did indicate a problem...

3k · June 7, 2004

Another reason I like to log a DNF is the history of where I've been and where I need to go back to, and where I don't. I might even put a watch on a cache I have not found to find out if it's still there, then I can decide if I want to go back. For me it's about seeing places and sometimes I don't get to go back.

June 7, 2004

After I logged the one DNF I've logged, the cache owner emailed me twice...once with a hint, and the other with his phone number if I had any further problems. I thought it was a very nice gesture from him, and not necessarily something I think cachers in my area would do (I was out of town). I had not seen those emails when I went back to check the location again, and if I had then the hint would have definitely helped me find it. Instead, I stumbled onto two other cachers, and we were then joined by two more cachers. One person in the group (not me) made the first find, then stepped back and we each found it on our own.

I think giving out hints is a great idea for the cache owner, once a DNF is logged on one of their hides. How do you all feel about that?

Paula :rolleyes:

38.2k · June 7, 2004

After I logged the one DNF I've logged, the cache owner emailed me twice...once with a hint, and the other with his phone number if I had any further problems. I thought it was a very nice gesture from him, and not necessarily something I think cachers in my area would do (I was out of town). I had not seen those emails when I went back to check the location again, and if I had then the hint would have definitely helped me find it. Instead, I stumbled onto two other cachers, and we were then joined by two more cachers. One person in the group (not me) made the first find, then stepped back and we each found it on our own.

I think giving out hints is a great idea for the cache owner, once a DNF is logged on one of their hides. How do you all feel about that?

I think if the owner wants to do it, that's fine.

I had a similar thing happen. I was on my 3rd DNF on a cache while visiting my in-laws (about 400 miles from home). The day before I was to leave, the owner sent me an e-mail with an additional hint and I was able to bag it.

Personally, I don't offer additional hints for my caches unless someone specifically asks me and then only if they have logged at least 2 DNF's for it (another reason to log DNF's).

Edited June 7, 2004 by briansnat

1.5k · June 7, 2004

I had to log 6 DNF's over the weekend... I hate that.

I feel bad when I log one and then see a note saying the owner visited the cache and it's still there. Feel like I gotta apologize or something. :rolleyes:

June 7, 2004

I too, have been guilty of not logging DNF.

Sort of felt like I was insulting the owner due to my incompetance...

I log them now, though, for all the reasons listed above.

2.3k · June 7, 2004

I log them now, though, for all the reasons listed above.

Great!

June 7, 2004

Not me, I won't log one cause as soon as I do the owner will sneak back in and put a new replacement cache there right where I looked seventeen times and say, see it was there all along and I will look dumb. And all of the other logs will laugh at me and say how easy it was and how some just don't know how to open their eyes. :rolleyes:

June 7, 2004

actually went to log a dnf and found that it had been moved over the weekend so figured I wasn't even looking in the right place so I'll look again in the right place.

June 8, 2004

This cache had two DNF's. I emailed the owner and since he had yet to confirm the cache's whereabouts, I felt it would be that much more "interesting" to try to find. As my log says, it was right where it should have been, but it required a LOT of looking. I guess since there were DNF's, I was spurred on that much more to find it. One more way a DNF helps.

3.8k · June 8, 2004

Another reason I like to log a DNF is the history of where I've been and where I need to go back to, and where I don't. I might even put a watch on a cache I have not found to find out if it's still there, then I can decide if I want to go back. For me it's about seeing places and sometimes I don't get to go back.

This is what I do. If I like the area, and want to get the cache off my list, I'll put a watch on it. That's what I did with the two I mentioned earlier.

<_<

3.8k · June 8, 2004

Agree, logging DNFs is important but then the owner should respond to them, or at least find out a bit more. I have about 4 DNFs still in my log and so far *no* response from the owners.

If we can then so should they...

Not necessarily.

Not finding a cache is not grounds for an email from the owner. There are lots of factors that go into whether or not you'll hear from them or not. A single DNF is not one of them. <_<

1.8k · June 8, 2004

I don't think a DNF requires any response. What exactly are you looking for?

If there are a few in a row, the owner should check on the cache and post a note on the page updating the status (missing, or still there), but beyond that I can't think of any other response required.

For me, the urgency of checking on a DNF depends on the difficulty of the cache and the experience of the cache hider. If someone with 3 finds posts a DNF on one of our 4-star difficulty caches, I'm not going to rusn out and check on it with the same sense of urgency if someone with 300 finds posts a DNF on a 1-star cache. If there is a string of unexpected DNF's, I'm out there right away.

1.5k · June 8, 2004

Too many people look at a DNF as a blemish on their record, instead of as valuable information for the cache owner and their fellow cachers.

I don't see how they can consider it a blemish, if the cache is not there...Part of my proud stats are for FDNFBFTF (First did not find before first to find)

I wear my Purple Frowns with pride..... oh.... their not purple any more... Well, I wear my DNF's with pride.

Please,please, Please Log Dnf's

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