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What Part Of Geocaching Is Supposed To Be "free"


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Currently, 71% viewing this forum are premium members, and 72% viewing all forums are. Do you think those who spend time on the forums are similar in numbers to those who don't? Ratio of premium to non- that is?

If you do a search of all the members(not admin or moderators) you come up with over 3200 pages, and a search for premium and charter members shows 875 pages. That is just over 27%. Kind of gives you the opposite picture doesn't it?

 

It's kind of funny how you can tell someone not to ask you how you know something and the first thing they do is ask you how you know something. :bad:

 

Personally I am glad that GC.com operates the way it does and doesn't require anyone to pay. I have a lot easier time trying to do my part and help out when it is voluntary and not demanded of me. I don't believe they are in this to make money, because they could probably make much more elswhere.

 

The only person I attacked was who I quoted, unless stating what should be obvious is counted as an attack.

 

Think about all the entertainment and information you get out of this site. I just can't understand how only about 1/4 of us (if my caculation is right) want to chip in and help keep it going. They are constantly improving the site with upgrades and new servers etc. and trying to address what cachers want out of it. If I can nudge some people into helping out then that's what I'll do. I'm sure a good percentage of that 3/4 (again, if my numbers are even close) could pay that 30$ and not even miss it.

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.... that this discussions serve only one purpose. It is, to drive a political wedge between those who need PQs and those who don't...

The entire purpose of this post is to get people to think about the future of geocaching. This RASH as we know it doesn't exist because Dave Ulmer was able to place a bucket along side a road. Nor does it exist because Clinton turned off selective availability. It exists because he listed that stash in a newsgroup that was widely available. People who never met, could in turn access it and read what Dave had done and accept his invitation to find his stash.

 

The internet makes this RASH possible. Specifically being able to list caches so that others can look them up to find withtout ever meeting the cache owner. Since then a lot of us have a lot of time and energy spent on our logs and caches which in turn tell a story about who and what we are. True some peoples story is pretty much "1 of 22 Today" but even that is something.

 

Geocaching as it has come to exist requires bandwidth, server space, and so forth. What happens if Groundspeak wakes up one day bleeding money? Will they pull the plug and all the logs and our work vaporize into cyberspace? Groundspeak with it's memberships has more incentive than Navicache and other sites who fund geocaching out of their own pocket caches to stay an ongoing concern. Even so the fact is geocaching isn't free, it can't remain free, and it begs the question posed in the last sentance of my original post. Who is going to sponsor who in the long run? Maybe I should of added, "And how are they going to do it?" to the last sentance as well.

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Currently, 71% viewing this forum are premium members, and 72% viewing all forums are.  Do you think those who spend time on the forums are similar in numbers to those who don't?  Ratio of premium to non- that is?

If you do a search of all the members(not admin or moderators) you come up with over 3200 pages, and a search for premium and charter members shows 875 pages. That is just over 27%. Kind of gives you the opposite picture doesn't it?

As I see it, geocaching.com has over 240,000 registered users (accounts). These forums have almost 34,000 registered users. So, only 15% of geocaching.com accounts have even bothered to register to use the forums. No doubt an even smaller percentage has bothered to purchase a subscription. The number of registered forum users is so small, the percentage of them that purchase subscriptions is, in my opinion, trivial.

Edited by Bassoon Pilot
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.... that this discussions serve only one purpose. It is, to drive a political wedge between those who need PQs and those who don't...

The entire purpose of this post is to get people to think about the future of geocaching. ... Geocaching as it has come to exist requires bandwidth, server space, and so forth. What happens if Groundspeak wakes up one day bleeding money? Will they pull the plug and all the logs and our work vaporize into cyberspace?

So are you suggesting that it is time to "take geocaching truly public" and for Jeremy to make an IPA? He has stated in the past that he has no intention of ever doing that. (My guess is he'd sell out to one of those friendly advertisers/sponsors instead.)

 

A note to MOCKBA: No one "needs PQs." They are, like all of the premium features available only to subscribing members, a mere convenience. Some people are willing to pay for those conveniences; that's as it should be.

Edited by Bassoon Pilot
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If this was a free country, we could walk up to any car, and drive it to were ever we need to go, then when we exit the car somebody else may get in it to drive somewhere else.

 

Something like that once happened to my car. :bad:

 

Alan

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Will they pull the plug and all the logs and our work vaporize into cyberspace?

A very valid concern. Why? Because you can't easily backup your own logs or your own caches.

 

It would be fairly trivial for your information to live on in the event that gc.com tanks* if the information weremade readily available. The information goes in, but it's like pulling teeth to get it out.

 

*Not likely to happen considering this site is making enough money to hire someone to help out.

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javascript:emoticon(':blink:')

smilie

 

Well, I've read this late and almost never post in here, BUT, Here's my 2c worth...

 

I really do NOT see what people argue about this for. *IF* you do not wish to pay anything, then you can use this site for free and go geocaching all day long.

 

For that matter, you do NOT have to use this site to Geocache - there ARE other sites.

 

I pay - I paid from the start - it is a great investment on my money.

 

This is a hobby I love to do - and because of this website I have been places and met people I never would have. This website and it's features grows every day. The ease of use, the options to search and find caches that *I* want to hunt are made possable by the HARD WORK of this websites owners.

 

I write website and database software - This website is VERY Impressive!!!

The Money and time put into this website will be HUGE!!! This kind of work takes MANY MANY MANY hours of time, and a LOT of HARDWARE - Almost all of you have bought a PC before.

 

Now - out of Love of this sport, think of how many BIG servers they bought to keep this WORLDWIDE site up and running, with the Hundreds of Thousands of guests hitting and logging into the website.

 

Go Price the cost of keeping this site ONLINE - it is NOT cheap.

 

and for that - they ALLOW anybody FREE access to MOST of their features.

 

To HELP offset the cost, they allow Perks to those willing to pay.

 

I paid before perks and I'll continue to pay - I love this site and I WANT it to stay afloat!!!

 

Off soapbox now - Bye!

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the rationale for paying the $30 membership is simple. imagine if the gps had it's same current capabilities, but there was no personal computer or internet at all. this sport/hobby could still exist exactly as it does now, albeit in a slower manner. it would exist, as many previous and current activities do, in the form of a magazine. we pay money for physical magazines to support, gain info, and participate in other activities, so why not pay for the cg site? it is, after all, an electronic magazine to keep us updated, informed, and involved. i pay for other magazines and newsletters to assist in my other interests. i see no difference in the subscription i pay to cg than what i pay to get field and stream, outdoor life, alaska, outside magazine, or any others i've received. (cripes, if people will pay for tv guide for heaven's sake!) if geocaching operated through a magazine, rather than a website, people would buy the magazine every month without complaint, as it's easier to see the need for "stuff" to run the operation that way. when you're surfing the internet, it's very easy to forget that there is a world of "stuff" needed to get all these electronic images to your home--and all without ever killing a tree! :blink:

 

eta: fix badd gramr

Edited by denali7
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Geocaching should be free! This comes up every now and then. Normally as a moral stand against some part of paying for the RASH, or having a members only cache.

 

So what part is supposed to be free? I can't think of any that are free, but quite a few parts that are sponsored so others don't have to pay.

 

When it comes to placing a cache, lowly gladware costs money, and so do log books.

When it comes to swag, the quality may be low but the happy meal still costs money.

When it comes to listings, no matter who runs the servers and provides the bandwidth there is a cost associated.

When it comes to seeking a cache there is always gas, a GPS and so on.

Even cache maggots have to spend money to jack a cache. Usually more than the price of the goods they stole. (It warms my heart to think of that aspect).

 

My payback in placing a cache is the feedback in the form of logs. Those who log in effect sponsor those who don't. Without online logs I would not place nearly as many caches as I have. Without any form of log book I wouldn't place any caches at all.

 

Paid members on GC.com sponsor unpaid members. At Navicache, Scouts new site, and others, the site owners are still footing the entire bill. All the local groups we enjoy are often sponsored by one person. When they grow tired or something happens and their site goes down it shows how dependant geocaching still is on individuals who take the time to pay for geocaching in a thousand small ways.

 

The only real issue about free caching is; who is going to sponsor who in the long run?

NOTHING IS FREE!

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Its not about money, its about having a good time and once you pay the rate for the GPS and membership, you are good to go, you dont have to hide caches or trade items, that is an extra. I just enjoy Geocaching no matter what the cost.

I'll go with that. :blink:

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Who here pays for Google?

Now that they are a public traded company, you can peruse through their quarter and annual reports for the answer.

 

Short answer? Google isn't free. Someone is footing the bill.

 

Don't forget about storage space (disk drives, back up, etc.) since people have only implied on its importance on this thread. Even though listings get archived, they don't get removed. Number of logs ALWAYS increase, and so does the need for storage space, and that ain't free for sure.

 

Are most of you using so-called "free ISPs"?? I didn't see any mention of Internet connection costs (not just bandwidth) as one of the mandatory expenses for Geocaching. Forgive me for stating the obvious, but it's my nature to think of the basics.

 

Groundspeak does have corporate sponsors. Don't forget the Jeep Travel Bugs, which I think is cool, because it's not intrusive like pop-up ads or TV commercials. In fact, I'm thankful you can't just buy a Jeep TB at the Groundspeak store - you have to go out of the house to get one, in theme with Jeremy's vision to get people to the outdoors.

 

Geocaching is FREE in terms of freedom, but NOT in terms of $$ due to the economic infrastructure that we are all part of.

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So are you suggesting that it is time to "take geocaching truly public" and for Jeremy to make an IPA?  He has stated in the past that he has no intention of ever doing that.  (My guess is he'd sell out to one of those friendly advertisers/sponsors instead.)

I'm guessing you meant IPO as in Initial Public Offering instead of IPA based on the context of this thread?

 

If Jeremy decides to make Groundspeak a publicly traded company, then you'll all be in for a rude awakening. When a company goes IPO, it's very likely a different group of people will take over the operations, and there's no guarantee they'll honor Jeremy's vision of how this site should be run.

 

In fact, shareholders and corporate investors ONLY care about numbers. Great way to finalize the debate on the continually recurring "it's not about the numbers" topic. :blink:

 

I risk pissing off the Geocaching purists for saying this, but there seems to be a solid business model behind how this site is run, with corporate sponsorships, and value-added membership structures.

 

I have no problem with that since Groundspeak packs an amazing amount of fun per $ spent. :huh:

Edited by budd-rdc
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To quote the greatest Yankee of them all, "It's deja vu all over again."

 

As far as I can tell, the owner of the website has promised free access to all non-premium features in perpetuity. The question is precisely what are the non-premium features? I would think they would be all features available when the site became operational.

 

With all the ads and corporate sponsorships the website has, as well as all the premium memberships purchased by people who just couldn't possibly face a day of geocaching without their pocket queries (the opiate of the geocaching masses), it seems likely that the site has outgrown the "charity stage," where it depended upon donations to keep things "up-and-running."

 

So by all means, purchase a premium membership if you want access to premium features. And you don't need to if you don't want, or need, the premium features.

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This was my first visit to the forums on this site. I figured it a good place to post about a sabotaged/dangerous cache in oreder to raise awareness about the possibility of bad people ruining this game. So then I went to check out some postings out of curiosity and so now I ask this question.....................

Do none of you have anything better to do than become inebriated by the verbositous banality of your own mediocrity.

The only worthwhile reply that I saw mentioned you all beating a dead horse yet again? Christ! Get a life.

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B) Jeremy.

Pleeeese don't go public.

When the money people take over the fun goes away.

Look at the AHL and what they are doing to survive.

And that is organized sports.

Geocaching is truely the underdogging little guy.

And a nice little fellow indeed. B)

To whom it may concern : And I didn't even need a dictionary to spell all the words correctly. B)

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This was my first visit to the forums on this site. I figured it a good place to post about a sabotaged/dangerous cache in oreder to raise awareness about the possibility of bad people ruining this game. So then I went to check out some postings out of curiosity and so now I ask this question.....................

  Do none of you have anything better to do than become inebriated by the verbositous banality of your own mediocrity.

    The only worthwhile reply that I saw mentioned you all beating a dead horse yet again? (sorry, I'm not quoting this *mtn-man*)  Get a life.

Um, regarding your question, at least most of these people read the forum guidelines before they posted. Thanks for your wisdom, and please take some of your all important time to glance over them. I'm sure you have better things to do though. Your friendly forum moderator would ask that you please treat other people here with the same respect you expect to get in return.

 

As wvcoalcat said, I hope you all realize this topic is over a year old. It should probably fall off the page again (by not posting to it).

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