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What Part Of Geocaching Is Supposed To Be "free"


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Geocaching should be free! This comes up every now and then. Normally as a moral stand against some part of paying for the RASH, or having a members only cache.

 

So what part is supposed to be free? I can't think of any that are free, but quite a few parts that are sponsored so others don't have to pay.

 

When it comes to placing a cache, lowly gladware costs money, and so do log books.

When it comes to swag, the quality may be low but the happy meal still costs money.

When it comes to listings, no matter who runs the servers and provides the bandwidth there is a cost associated.

When it comes to seeking a cache there is always gas, a GPS and so on.

Even cache maggots have to spend money to jack a cache. Usually more than the price of the goods they stole. (It warms my heart to think of that aspect).

 

My payback in placing a cache is the feedback in the form of logs. Those who log in effect sponsor those who don't. Without online logs I would not place nearly as many caches as I have. Without any form of log book I wouldn't place any caches at all.

 

Paid members on GC.com sponsor unpaid members. At Navicache, Scouts new site, and others, the site owners are still footing the entire bill. All the local groups we enjoy are often sponsored by one person. When they grow tired or something happens and their site goes down it shows how dependant geocaching still is on individuals who take the time to pay for geocaching in a thousand small ways.

 

The only real issue about free caching is; who is going to sponsor who in the long run?

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Great post. The way I look at it is this way. Ask yourself how much do you pay for a round of golf? How much do you spend on a ski lift ticket? Those activities only last a few hours and I bet you spent more than 30$. Geocaching is a bargain compared to some of these activities. You spend 30 bucks to support this great sport and it gives you an entire year of fun. I have no problem supporting something that gives me so much pleasure. Gotta give a little to something you enjoy. :D

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I would like to support the website with a monetary contribution -- voluntary. It may be $30 and it may be much more. Where is that option?

 

I do NOT want to be a premium member, and I especially do not want to be a mandatory member (which is the next logical step). I am FREE to make that choice.

 

All this extra space below is the blank sound of my erased rantings. I've already said my peace in the other thread.

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I would like to support the website with a monetary contribution -- voluntary. It may be $30 and it may be much more. Where is that option?

 

I do NOT want to be a premium member, and I especially do not want to be a mandatory member (which is the next logical step). I am FREE to make that choice.

 

All this extra space below is the blank sound of my erased rantings. I've already said my peace in the other thread.

write contact@geocaching.com tell them how much you would like to contribute and they will give you an address to send it to or possibly tell you how you can use paypal for this gift.

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I wish geocaching was free of faux "controversial" issues.

 

So what part is supposed to be free? I can't think of any that are free, but quite a few parts that are sponsored so others don't have to pay.

 

Precisely what the site owner has consistently stated from the very beginning ... basic access to the geocaching.com website and the Groundspeak forums. My guess is that at least 75% of the people who visit these sites do so "for free." The fact that others are "sponsoring" their free access is irrelevant to their (both those who use the site free and those who sponsor the site by purchasing subscriptions) use of the site and enjoyment of the game.

 

My payback in placing a cache is the feedback in the form of logs.

 

Personally, the only "payback" I expect from a hobby or leisure time activity is the enjoyment I receive by participating in the activity.

Edited by Bassoon Pilot
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Geocaching should be free!

Why? What other hobby/sport is free? None that I've ever participated in. Some require daily, weekly or annual passes that cost a lot of money. Some require annual licenses and gear, and all require some initial investment in equipment.

 

Other hobbies of mine include golf, softball, bass fishing, skiing, metal detecting, etc.

 

Going to the town pool cost money, signing my kids up for softball, soccer, cheerleading cost money.

 

Nothing is free and neither is geocaching.

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I find it funny that many posters above me equated "payment to the sport" to "money paid to Groundspeak." ;)

 

I think "free" geacaching is the same as broadcast TV or radio. You have to pay for the equipment and power to run it, expend the energy to operate it, and sit through commercials to watch it. I know I don't pay CBS to watch CSI or Survivor. There isn't even an option to send in money to get better programs. Somebody's got to pay for it--sponsors and ultimately us consumers. But you don't pay money beyond what's mentioned above to watch the shows. That's what we're talking about it being "free."

 

At the other end of the spectrum there is cable and satellite. You must pay for the service of bringing a lot of channels into your home. Still, you get channels that are normally free (with cable.)

 

Groundspeak is in the middle. You pay for added features, but the basics are free.

 

Right now, getting clues to caches can range from coords on a napkin as shown in the famous Jeep commercial (I doubt that guy logged a DNF* on that one) to custom Pocket Queries. The only difference is delivery.

 

Still, the basic form of getting your clues into the hands of those who would find your cache is still free. I really don't see how anyone could regulate or control it. Let someone try and practically instantly a new site will pop up. Granted, only a massive company with plenty of money could rival Groundspeak right off the bat with capacity, but a savvy local could handle the load for his state or region. When this happens, the clue exchange could remain free.

 

I think the free exchange of clues is and will always be free. If you want to send money to support a site then that's what you're doing, supporting the site. Nothing else.

 

*DNF probably has a completely different meaning in this instance!

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Good post RK. Geocaching isn't free and can't be for the reasons you mentioned. I am comfortable with the $30 a year membership and really don't buy the "its too expensive" argument. GPS units cost 8-10 times that much and everyone has one. A cache will cost $30 to set up, at 15 mpg (about avg for an SUV or p/u), the 50-100 miles of driving for a day of geocaching will cost upwards of $6-12. Go out more than once a month and you could eat $30 in gas in a month.

 

If we want the sport to progress, we need a strong central site that can be a communications link to the land managers and the cachers around the country and world. Without this, we can get rolled just like we have in the past by the NPS. When we didn't have a central organizing group that could support the sport at a national level, other sports did (usually via industry groups) and these sports got better treatment than we did.

 

With a central organizing group, local groups are easier to set up and run. Many of these, including Nebraskache, are free, but only because we don't have to duplicate the service that GC provides. If we had to list caches in Nebraska, we would most assuredly charge for the service just to pay for the computers.

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Well, geocaching was free for my first find, since I used a borrowed GPS and hadn't subscribed to the site yet (oops! I used some gasoline...)

 

Since then I've bought a GPSr, interface cable, (shareware) software, NMHi batteries and a charger to sustain my 'habit'. So personally, it wasn't free for me, but I've only invested some <$500 in the hobby (excluding ice, bottled water, gasoline, an invoice/clipboard to hold prnt-outs, my PDA and the GPSr). Personal investment, worth it to me. I'm still looking at a dash mount and accessory cable to power it in the car, but that can wait.

 

The premium membership was primarily to support the cause, and the benefits, particularly downloading .LOC files to the GPS save me some input errors. And I enjoy the conveience of browsing the maps, zooming and panning, and IDing casches with a click. Haven't found pocket queries useful yet, but I'm new. For a mere $30 (and I'm retired, like it matters). And I renewed a friendship when I introduced him to the sport/hobby/whatever.

 

To me it's an amazing twist on using technology in a novel way.

 

BTW and OT, what's with the Froggie ;) icons? History?

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Well, geocaching was free for my first find, since I used a borrowed GPS and hadn't subscribed to the site yet (oops! I used some gasoline...)

 

Since then I've bought a GPSr, interface cable, (shareware) software, NMHi batteries and a charger to sustain my 'habit'. So personally, it wasn't free for me, but I've only invested some <$500 in the hobby (excluding ice, bottled water, gasoline, an invoice/clipboard to hold prnt-outs, my PDA and the GPSr). Personal investment, worth it to me. I'm still looking at a dash mount and accessory cable to power it in the car, but that can wait.

 

The premium membership was primarily to support the cause, and the benefits, particularly downloading .LOC files to the GPS save me some input errors. And I enjoy the conveience of browsing the maps, zooming and panning, and IDing casches with a click. Haven't found pocket queries useful yet, but I'm new. For a mere $30 (and I'm retired, like it matters). And I renewed a friendship when I introduced him to the sport/hobby/whatever.

 

To me it's an amazing twist on using technology in a novel way.

 

BTW and OT, what's with the Froggie ;) icons? History?

Read This and you might get a little bit of an idea.

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Great post RK! I have this type of discussion often with my IT guys (&gals)...data is easy to get...the trick...the value added...that somehow needs to be paid for, if it is going to be sustainable...is turning the data into information...that can be used...when, where and how the user needs or wants to...from what my experience has been for the last year with Groundspeak...is that they "create" GREAT amounts of usable information... VERY well! Keep up the good work!

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;) May I give you a Pastor's perspective? I plan to buy the $30 premium membership as soon as I can save it. (note: without being too specific, I promise you that I am very low on the income scale, so saving is HARD for me. I need a cheap activity.) That being said, just THINK of the service you get. Complain about the cost of stamps, but, doggone it, the Post Office DELIVERS.... so find that service cheaper.... anyway, I want to give something back, 'cause I get a lot of enjoyment.

If I had the cash, I'd buy $30 sealed containers - I've only seen one out there at HOME OF THE CEDAR WAXWINGS, a great cache, but it works great. But I go surplus and tupperware. I also have a cheap sorce for decent "swag." So, in four caches, and approaching my first anniversary, I have maybe $20 total in materials. That's cheap.

I saved two Christmases and a birthday for my new Garmin Vista, and you know what that costs...before that I had a borrowed Garmin12, or went with family and used theirs. But that didn't support the organization that makes this possible. That was MY choice.

I only have 44 caches now due to time , but more to gas $. Again, that has nothing to do with ....what's his name???...Jeremy? What I'm saying is, "I'm pinched more than most of you, I think, but it is a great activity...and cheap at twice the cost. Robespierre

 

The Premium members in my family have decided that the extras are inconsequential.

As far as "members only caches" - let them die a natural death....when no one shows up, I think they will open up. Which leads to a subject I hope to enter today into discussion, if I can't find it mentioned already. That is, I live in a cachin' desert, and have to drive an hour just to start cachin'. My four caches get rare visits, and they are good ones. I'm thinkin' about cashing them in, and just bein' a user - but that's for another page. ;)

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The Premium members in my family have decided that the extras are inconsequential.

As far as "members only caches" - let them die a natural death....when no one shows up, I think they will open up. Which leads to a subject I hope to enter today into discussion, if I can't find it mentioned already. That is, I live in a cachin' desert, and have to drive an hour just to start cachin'. My four caches get rare visits, and they are good ones. I'm thinkin' about cashing them in, and just bein' a user - but that's for another page. ;)

The Extras that a Premium membership bring are inconsequential, if you don't use them. but that's not the reason I'm replying....

 

Please do not pull your 4 caches....they are an oasis in the desert, that hopefully will encourage others to build on your base.

 

in my area, when I started, there were only 4 caches within 20 mile radius, now there are about 25. Half of them are mine....but it's growing...you just have to give it time....

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Are you starting a sort of reverse Geocide RK? ;)

I was just being facetious. I agree with your post, but I have to say that one of things that I have always admired about GC.com and Jeremy et al is that almost all of functionality and resources are available to anyone who logs on. I was 'caching for quite a while before I ponied up a single cent. The PQs are nice, but like most people here (I suspect) the $49.00 I spend a year is something I view as a small measure of support to maintain the status quo!

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So what part is supposed to be free?

My part.

I don't think you should pay for "membership" which doesn't give you voting rights, but it's your money after all, and it's all up to you.

So shove your advice of how I should dispose of mine up your a^^.

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Throughout my career in marketing communications, I've worked on developing and maintaining Web sites, and I know how much work goes into a site like this. My $30 is my way of saying thank you, and I'd pay it whether or not I got any added benefits. This is a great provision--not just the inventory of caches, but the forums, all the information... it's invaluable to a newbie like me. Heck, my husband and I often spend $30 on a bottle of wine that's gone in an evening. To get a full year's use of this site for the same price is the best bargain I've come across.

 

My thanks to the admins and the volunteers for the great job you do. I'm really getting hooked on geocaching, and I owe you a debt of gratitude because I wouldn't have started it if this site didn't exist.

 

 

 

 

Edited to change h*ll to heck after reading Duane's post! ;)

Edited by JukieF
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So what part is supposed to be free?

My part.

I don't think you should pay for "membership" which doesn't give you voting rights, but it's your money after all, and it's all up to you.

So shove your advice of how I should dispose of mine up your a^^.

Normally you make a lot of good points in the forums. Your comment about voting would of made a good point to expand on.

 

However today you resemble the last part of your suggestion.

 

Now I'm going to have a hard time taking you seriously. You can’t read for one and countered a point that I didn't make. For you to remain free you count on people like me to sponsor you. It’s a good thing that vote doesn’t exist because I’d pull the plug on you starting now. Upinyachit seems to have more forum class than you at this point. I sure as hell hope that was your attempt at humor. You are one of the people in the forums I might actually meet.

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So what part is supposed to be free?

My part.

I don't think you should pay for "membership" which doesn't give you voting rights, but it's your money after all, and it's all up to you.

So shove your advice of how I should dispose of mine up your a^^.

Are you always so rude and distasteful, or have you been saving up for a while?

 

I had to go back and read RK's post, and I still couldn't find anywhere that he gave any advise, just stated a few facts, and shared a few thoughts.

 

So you think a measly (to most anyway) 30$ a year should give you the right to run the show? Pure audacity!

 

I don't have any problem with people that can't afford to shell out the bucks not being a premium member, but I can definitly do without having a freeloader like you on my back.

 

It is your money, and it is your membership, and you should be gratefull that TPTB ALLOW you to use this site while others fund it for you.

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Who here pays for Google?

Google and most other search engines are sponsored. When you do a search paying sponsors are either listed first or in a "premium" position.

If you would like to have lots of annoying pop-ups and banner ads this site could probably be run without membership costs.

Alternately you could forgo all the fancy features, nice interface, and photos/graphics and have everything on a Usenet type server where only those with a high level of computer knowledge can do anything.

 

The thing that many web users fail to grasp is that while the "web" is free, individual sites are private property. Site owners can allow you to use it for free, or charge you for it's use, with the same rights as a property owner in the "real world". A web user's only rights are to accept the site rules or leave.

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So what part is supposed to be free?

My part.

I don't think you should pay for "membership" which doesn't give you voting rights, but it's your money after all, and it's all up to you.

So shove your advice of how I should dispose of mine up your a^^.

Anonimity is great, isn't it?

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My opinion:

 

If you compare Geocaching with other sports/hobbies, will you find that Geocaching isn't for free. But still it is cheaper than the most of them:

 

Geocaching:

You can borrow a GPS from anyone, visit the free GC.com website and take almost any cache in the world and test it. You can do it nearby your home, you can do it in other countries. You don't need a special license or training for doing it. If you feel that it is something fun, then you can try to borrow the GPS for a longer time or buy a cheap one.

 

Golf:

You must have a set of clubs, a trolley for the clubs. You must be a member of a Golf Club. You must go a training course, you must buy ugly pants from an expensive store owned by an man that wants to be refered as "Pro" all the time. You can't try gold anywhere in the world, at any time you wish. There is a lot of money involved. And when you want to do some golf, there will be a slow blue haired 65+ couple in front of you, slowing you down, and it will give you a heart attack.

 

Tennis:

First of all, you must find someone to play with. You can't do tennis yourself. This means that you must be social and meet others, and since you are an internet junkie and technical gadget nerd - you are not made to meet others IRL.

Then you must buy a tennis racket, you must buy ugly white pants and a white shirt with a logotype of two crocodiles making love. Strange... You can't play tennis in the middle of the night, you must be a member of a tennis club. You can't do tennis when you feel for it.

 

Dog shows:

Okay, you might have a GeoDog, but still... Dogs at dog shows are not trained in finding Tupperware, they have just bad haircuts and are supposed to look nice. The dog owner must have special clothes on, if you are female: something that makes you look 50 years older. If you are male: Something that looks like a suite from the 80's.

It requires a fee, you must also pre-register yourself and the dog for the show. And the worst part, you will get a bad review. If you were geocaching, you can always choose to not write a DNF. But at a dog show will they give you a written note anyway.

 

Soccer/Football/Baseball/Basketball and similar sports:

You must be a member of a team. This requires you to find a bunch of nerds just like yourself - good luck. Well, we know a place on the internet where you can find their names, but they are not there. They are out hunting caches. But still, it requires a team. It also requires a coach that tells you how stupid and lazy you are. Do you really want to know that? You must have special clothes on, with a lot of commercial ads on. And since we are talking about "FREE" geocaching aren't commercial ads something you hate? Then you must have special shoes. It might require something about you also, for example: Basketball as a dwerf? Baseball if you are afraid of bats, mouses or rats? These sports also requires that you practice all the time, you must be a member somewhere. If you are playing soccer, you must be driven by your mom everywhere in an ugly car. Do you really want to hang out with your mum all the time?

 

So, what are the result of this test?

If you want to spend all your time with your mum and a coach that smells strange, try Soccer.

 

If you want to spend all your time with really tall men in shorts, try Basketball.

 

If you want to spend all your time with a bunch of really tough men, all dressed in pads to protect them from getting injured, try Baseball.

 

If you want to spend all your time trying to hit a small ball with a stick, and at the same time get laughed at by a 80yo lady in blue hair with a blue haired dog - try Golf.

 

If you want to spend all your time smashing rackets and swearing like MacEnroe, try Tennis. You might even become a multimillionare or engaged with Enrique Inglesias.

 

Otherwise, try Geocaching. It is really fun, you might even see things like this post from hedberg. And sometimes between all your posts in the forum, you might even find some time to go finding damp micros or traditionals filled with McToys. But who cares, it is fun anyway. And you don't have to be a member of a "Country Club & Golf Course". You don't have to listen to swearing people (might happen if you join the Tennis Club) - GC.com have a filter that censors all the bad words. And if you want to see blue haired people, we have them here also, but they are not slow. We call them: Smurfs. And smurfs can't play basketball, not even in minor leagues. So... Geocaching is the choice for you, my friend.

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Oy, not this again. Non-premium members generate revenue through the mapping sponsors and whatnot--premium members just opt to pay extra.

 

I'd rather every premium member put that $30 to better caches and swag.

 

I support caching by putting extra effort in my logs (the show of appreciation) and cache placements.

 

As for the original question, I compare caching to hiking, bird-watching, spelunking, bicycling, nature photography and the like.

 

The hiking costs me nothing. I just step out my door and keep going.

The bird-watching costs me nothing. I just look out the window.

The caving costs me nothing beyond travel to the location (which could be via bike).

Biking costs me nothing--especially if the bike is a gift.

Nature photography costs nothing--particularly if the camera is a gift.

 

Heck, some cachers (the "ghost cachers") don't even have computers. They hear about them from friends or access via the library. If the GPS is a gift or owned for another purpose, there's no investment cost.

 

I won't even tell you how many caches are within walking distance from my house nevermind biking distance! Combine that with the library being within biking distance...

 

TNLN doesn't cost ANYTHING. Trading down at one cache provides a trade good you can trade in/out of every other cache afterward if you are into trading.

 

As for the Groundspeak presentation of the hobby always being "free"--they've defined that as not charging to view listings. Considering each listing viewed promotes Shop.Groundspeak, Microsoft, MapQuest, TopoZone, Microsoft again, some banner and an "Advertise with us" link, I can guarantee the costs are covered or the business model would never have lasted this long!

 

Either way, what does it matter or impact? Nothing. (Aside from staff raises... Hmm... Does every 5th new premium member = another $1 in the paycheck? {Cool!})

 

Enjoy,

 

Randy

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As for the original question, I compare caching to ... nature photography and the like.

 

Nature photography costs nothing--particularly if the camera is a gift.

 

Randy, do you use film or digital? What do you print your pictures on? Film photography costs bunches of bucks for film, developing and printing. Digital costs for printing.

 

And if you do it yourself, there' the costs of the equipment. Photography was one of my more expensive hobby's.

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The hiking costs me nothing. I just step out my door and keep going.

The bird-watching costs me nothing. I just look out the window.

The caving costs me nothing beyond travel to the location (which could be via bike).

Biking costs me nothing--especially if the bike is a gift.

Nature photography costs nothing--particularly if the camera is a gift.

Hiking: You must do it naked. Boots wear out - and unless you hike flat urban trails you need them. Other clothes and gear (hike length dependent) have a cost.

 

Bird-watching: You should have said girl watching to be free. Guides and binoculars are not free.

 

Caving: Can you see in the dark, congratulations! Batteries or other light sources aren't free. That helmet that has saved my head a few times ain't free. Cleaning the clothes.

 

Biking: Replacing tires (and other parts that wear) isn't free. Then there is all the other things that make biking easier/safer - computer, bags, lights, gloves, helment, mirror...

 

Photography: Covered in prior post.

 

As to the 30 dollars spent on better caches: I haven't spent much money on the web site (other than a very few things from the store) so where is that "revenue through the mapping sponsors and whatnot" come from? Not me.

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Oy, not this again. Non-premium members generate revenue through the mapping sponsors and whatnot--premium members just opt to pay extra.

 

As for the Groundspeak presentation of the hobby always being "free"--they've defined that as not charging to view listings. Considering each listing viewed promotes Shop.Groundspeak, Microsoft, MapQuest, TopoZone, Microsoft again, some banner and an "Advertise with us" link, I can guarantee the costs are covered or the business model would never have lasted this long!

 

Either way, what does it matter or impact? Nothing. (Aside from staff raises... Hmm... Does every 5th new premium member = another $1 in the paycheck? {Cool!})

 

Enjoy,

 

Randy

I have tried to come up with a nice way to say this, but I can't. You don't know what you are talking about. You are just guessing, and you have guessed wrong.

 

I don't claim to know everything, but what I do know is that the 30$ from premium members is much needed. Don't ask me how I know, because I won't tell. I also know that if this site goes away it will not be because of all the premium members that help out, but because of all the people that could afford the paltry 30$ but are too cheap to fork it out. I know where I stand on that, do you? I also manage to come up with the bucks to put out an occasional cache as well, and I don't know too many of us that have missed too many meals lately.

 

I am not saying this too indicate that GC.com is in trouble financially. I just want people to know what they are talking about before they spout off.

 

My guess is that most people that don't pay for a premium membership also look around for the cheapest price on mapping software etc., and don't care if it is from a link on the GC site. I think their loyalties lie in their pocket book. But that is just a guess, so I won't present it as fact.

 

As I said before, I don't have any problem with people that can't afford the 30$ not paying it. I have been there not that long ago, but I also don't believe that there are that many of us that are in that position. Can you honestly say that you are? Come on, I bet you spend more on movie rentals every year.

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I live in a cachin' desert, and have to drive an hour just to start cachin'.  My four caches get rare visits, and they are good ones.  I'm thinkin' about cashing them in, and just bein' a user - but that's for another page.

May we suggest that you introduce more people to geocaching? Please try not to pull your caches. Hopefully your caches will encourage more.

 

As for the $30, I'm happy to pay. I get a whole year of fun for less than a day at Disneyland. :o:unsure:

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I don't claim to know everything, but what I do know is that the 30$ from premium members is much needed. Don't ask me how I know, because I won't tell. I also know that if this site goes away it will not be because of all the premium members that help out, but because of all the people that could afford the paltry 30$ but are too cheap to fork it out.

 

Here we go again!

 

How do you know? Are you their accountant? Groundspeak is a business not a charity which would reveal its finances.

 

Their current business plan is set up the way it is. If they're not making money, they counld always change it. For example, they could charge an introductory rate for 3 months for let's say five dollars and eliminate "free" caching altogether. Or allow a free, three-month period after which you have to sign up as a paying member. There are unlimited avenues to potentially increase revenues.

 

However, that is fraught with risk that I'm sure keeps management up at night. How do you start charging more people without risk losing what is now a monopoly to competition?

 

So for now Groundspeak seems to be happy with their current plan or at least not willing to take the risks involve regarding competition. And your attacks on who pays or doesn't pay is uncalled for.

 

Alan

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The traditional Geocaching game will always be free. Subscriptions will be for new enhancements and new games added to Groundspeak. It takes development time and resources ($$) in order to make these ideas come to life. Not to mention the continuing hardware upgrades to keep the site responsive to your visits.

 

See, it's free

Edited by Lazyboy & Mitey Mite
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Currently, 71% viewing this forum are premium members, and 72% viewing all forums are. Do you think those who spend time on the forums are similar in numbers to those who don't? Ratio of premium to non- that is?

If I understand your point, wouldn't Jeremy be delighted if that were so. :o

 

It would mean 71% of all members are paying. I think there's around 80,000 or 100,000 who have signed up. At $30 a pop that would mean 1.5M to $2+ million a year.

 

Boy, think of all the servers he could buy! :unsure:

 

Alan

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Normally you make a lot of good points in the forums.

Thanks RK. My point here was not to make a point, but to express my displeasment that you started to beat this poor dead horse with vengeance.

I already made my points on the subject in a number of earlier threads. Eventually I came to understand that these hotbutton topics about management follies preventing Groundspeak from fully exploiting sponsorships, vs. about riff-raff and maggots who never pay and always steal .... that this discussions serve only one purpose. It is, to drive a political wedge between those who need PQs and those who don't.

I know RK that you are desperate to solve a piracy problem in your area ... but please, refrain from poisoning the atmosphere with the threads which serve to exchange bad blood rather than good points.

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