Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 4
The Infamous Five

"members Only" Caches

Recommended Posts

I got a new cache notification just lately that when I try to access it, it turned out to be a "members only" cache. While I accept that if one pays a subscription then new benefits are made available I am at pains to understand the concept of "members only" caches.

 

When you log a cache on a public domain, and it must be as everyone gets notified, you automatically are indicating that the public can go looking for your cache. To then make your cache a "members only" must be some form of elitism as I can't see any other reason why one would do this.

More than this though is the whole concept of a "members only" cache. When I plant a cache I hope to get as many hits as possible as the reason I hid it in the first place is so I can attract people to an area I think is beautiful and worthwhile to visit. There is some pride and some sense of achievement at having made someone's day when they find one of your caches through the clues, coordinates and finally the little box of goodies at the end of it. Anyone who wants to curtail this to a specific group should then take it off the public domain surely? Where I come from geocaching activity isn't so great that our caches have heavy traffic making this idea even more ludicrous.

 

What are other's thoughts on this?

Share this post


Link to post

I have placed several 'member only' caches. For a couple of reasons, first because I want to cut down the number of visits to the cache because it is located near my neighborhood and I don't want the extra traffic that the cache could create. And secondly, the 'member only' caches tend to get visited by a better group of cachers, ie less junk traded, cache is put back where it belongs, and it requires less maintenace on my part.

 

edit - spelling

Edited by clearpath

Share this post


Link to post

There are a few reasons I can see to do this.

One is if there are a lot of cache-pirates in the area so you want to limit the viewing of the listing.

 

Two is that the "swag" is high quality and the owner wants it to go to serious cachers who will trade fairly and not replace nice objects with McJunk.

 

Three is that the cache owner realizes that it costs a LOT of money to operate a web site like this so they want to encourage others to help support it.

Share this post


Link to post

We just put our first in a few weeks ago for the simple reason we wanted to give something back to the folks who help pay for the website. We plan to put them in at a ratio of about 1:10, so we'll never have a lot, but we also plan to make them "special" in some way.

 

We don't have any opinion about who's a better cacher or who's more likely to trade even or up; we just feel like ever now and then, the people keeping the website profitable and running ought to get a little something extra. That's all.

Share this post


Link to post
There are a few reasons I can see to do this.

One is if there are a lot of cache-pirates in the area so you want to limit the viewing of the listing.

 

Two is that the "swag" is high quality and the owner wants it to go to serious cachers who will trade fairly and not replace nice objects with McJunk.

 

Three is that the cache owner realizes that it costs a LOT of money to operate a web site like this so they want to encourage others to help support it.

Ditto. I'm thinking of placing a MO cache myself soon! I'm hoping this helps with people trading fare and will keep the newbies atbay a little longer and preserve the quality of the contents. It will be my first MO cache, as well. SF1

Share this post


Link to post

I've heard of people occasionally making a cache member's only for maybe a month or so until it's been found a couple times by cachers, and the FTF prizes have been claimed..

 

The people who place member's only caches aren't trying to say that member's are better than everyone else, but it is a way to give back to those giving to the site, and it gives non-members an incentive to become a member and support the site...

Share this post


Link to post
I've heard of people occasionally making a cache member's only for maybe a month or so until it's been found a couple times by cachers, and the FTF prizes have been claimed..

 

The people who place member's only caches aren't trying to say that member's are better than everyone else, but it is a way to give back to those giving to the site, and it gives non-members an incentive to become a member and support the site...

I've long been against the idea that members are a "better class" of cachers than non-members, and don't care for that train of thought at all. There are lots of noobs that automatically plop down the $30 for a membership, and still trade down, trash caches, don't rehide as well, etc. etc. etc, and lots of seasoned non-members that do the same........so that argument doesn't fly with me. If I ever place a MOC, it will be only to inspire non-members to fork over the bucks to help support the site, probably will be full of very nice swag, or a really special cache. MOC caches get traded down just the same on regular caches....ask around, those who have placed them will tell you.

Share this post


Link to post

Yea, MOCs suck. But cache placers still use that opition somethings hoping it will do something (most of the usual reasons already named).

Share this post


Link to post
...I hope to get as many hits as possible as the reason I hid it in the first place is so I can attract people to an area I think is beautiful and worthwhile to visit. There is some pride and some sense of achievement at having made someone's day when they find one of your caches through the clues, coordinates and finally the little box of goodies at the end of it. ...

1) Less likely to get plunderd.

2) Reserves the first few finds for those who have paid to support this site.

3) Sites that specificly should not be revealed in the public domain such as sensitive cave locations.

 

There are a couple of other reasons but those are the ones I've seen on MOC I've found.

 

However most people, like you, want people to find their cache and so they don't use MOC.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm inclined to agree with Sparky-Watts, regards the "better class". I'm sure there are many who pay, but don't trade up, etc. and many non-members who do.

 

But, I do agree with the concept of giving back to those who contribute to the game.

Share this post


Link to post

Oh, and I have seen at least two MOC's in this area listed that way for a particular person to find, such as a birthday cache, or an anniversary cache, and it was listed that way on the cache page. They also gave the intended FF the coords before making the listing active to ensure they would be FTF. There was a thread not too long ago about someone who had done that, only didn't give them the coords before it was active, and another geocacher was FTF on the cache, despite the mention on the cache page that it was reserved for "x" geocacher to find.....caused quite a flame-fest in the forums, as I recall.......

Share this post


Link to post

The other reason to make a cache MOC is to do experimental caches. I come up with an idea, and want to test it. I want experienced cachers going after it so they give me good feedback and I can decide if the experiment is working. If I get a bunch of people who have fewer than 10 finds complaining that a cache is too hard, I don't know if the cache is too hard or they aren't seasoned enough, or both. By making a cache MOC, I get more cachers who have a 100 or more finds and if they tell me that something isn't working, then likely its not working.

Share this post


Link to post
When you log a cache on a public domain, and it must be as everyone gets notified, you automatically are indicating that the public can go looking for your cache.

It isn't a "public domain". It's multilevel, and always has been. There are certain things anyone can do, just by pointing their browser at the site. You can look at most caches, but you can't log them. You can run a search, but you can't download the results. You can see who owns a cache, but you can't look at their profile, or email them.

 

Other things require that you accept the site's TOS and establish an account, with a verifiable email address. Then you're allowed to do things like post logs, create caches, and download LOC files.

 

If you want to pony up the bucks for a premium membership, then you get to do things like create PQs, have more caches on your watch list, and hide and hunt MOCs.

Share this post


Link to post

I've seen people use memeber's only caches when placing in an area that may cause problems if too many people visit the cache (undergrowth damage or concerned neighbors). If the cache poses no problem, they open it up to general use.

Personally, I don't like the idea of non-members being notified of new members-only caches. It's like saying "look at this cool think that you can't have! Nyah!" But, then again, it may be incentive to join...

Share this post


Link to post
:D The travel bugs in this region seem to often go 'poof.' Maybe if some were left in MOC they would live on, cuz Raiders aren't members?

Share this post


Link to post

I find them exclusionary and won't log them online if I hunt them.

 

I figure if they'll exclude others, I'll exclude them from enjoying my log. (I do log in the logbook however...)

 

I'm sorry but such unfounded biases shouldn't be encouraged in this hobby in my opinion.

 

MO caches are traded down as much as others. They get muggled at the same rate. Cache-pirates have been members too. All members support the site by participating. I'd assume more revenue is generated through active participation than inactive membership.

 

Fostering elitism never has good results.

 

Enjoy,

 

Randy

Share this post


Link to post
RJFerret said:

"I'm sorry but such unfounded biases shouldn't be encouraged in this hobby in my opinion.

 

MO caches are traded down as much as others.  They get muggled at the same rate.  Cache-pirates have been members too.  All members support the site by participating.  I'd assume more revenue is generated through active participation than inactive membership."

I have to speak up and disagree with that from my own experience, hopefully not an unfounded bias. At least in my area (and I realize it may not be true elsewhere), the opposite is the norm, not the exception. Members-only caches do help protect FTF prizes and reduce or at least slow down the depreciation factor.

 

I am finally ready to give back to the GC community by placing several caches (a series) and want to reward those who are willing to contribute. I am trying to protect the hobby/sport, not be elitist, and I do think the revenue comes from premium memberships as much as active participation.

 

This discussion has come up before and most (though admittedly not all) people can afford the $30 fee, especially those that bought their own GPSr. I may start another thread or search to see if a geocaching.com one-year premium membership could be offered as a FTF prize in a non-MO cache.

 

For my upcoming caches, after one gets 10 logs, I'll open it up to any cacher.

Share this post


Link to post

i dont mind member caches, theres not many around here, but if the fee wasnt $30+ a year, maybe $20-25 instead id join, but i think the price is kinda high.

 

aj

Share this post


Link to post
I find them exclusionary and won't log them online if I hunt them.

 

I figure if they'll exclude others, I'll exclude them from enjoying my log. (I do log in the logbook however...)

 

I'm sorry but such unfounded biases shouldn't be encouraged in this hobby in my opinion.

 

MO caches are traded down as much as others. They get muggled at the same rate. Cache-pirates have been members too. All members support the site by participating. I'd assume more revenue is generated through active participation than inactive membership.

 

Fostering elitism never has good results.

 

Enjoy,

 

Randy

Finding and logging them or knowing how much they are traded down would be kind of hard to determine if you weren't a premium member.

Share this post


Link to post
i dont mind member caches, theres not many around here, but if the fee wasnt $30+ a year, maybe $20-25 instead id join, but i think the price is kinda high.

 

aj

57 cents a week? B)

 

$2.50 a month? :o

 

C'mon...give up one tricky coffee or bar-drink or bring your lunch to work once each month, and you will more than pay for the "premium" membership.

 

In the one MOC I have visited, the cache was in better shape, and the trade goods were nicer (no bottle caps or pennies). My area is so cache poor :D that I wouldn't place a MOC yet, but in a while I plan on it, to give something back to people who give something to gc.com.

 

nfa

Edited by NFA

Share this post


Link to post
I have to speak up and disagree with that from my own experience, hopefully not an unfounded bias. At least in my area (and I realize it may not be true elsewhere), the opposite is the norm, not the exception. Members-only caches do help protect FTF prizes and reduce or at least slow down the depreciation factor.

I'm not sure what you mean by protect FTF prizes. Protect them from finders???

As for depreciation factor, how can you determine what is the cause? is it because its being visited less? or because premium members 'always trade equal'?

I would assume you could place a cache very BFE so it gets found only once or twice a year and the vaue of the depreciation would be very slow.

 

I am finally ready to give back to the GC community by placing several caches (a series) and want to reward those who are willing to contribute. I am trying to protect the hobby/sport, not be elitist, and I do think the revenue comes from premium memberships as much as active participation.

Who/what are you protecting by placing a MOC? (or rather, how can the community benifit from a cache part of them can't know about, and others won't even bother to look for?)

Can someone provide the numbers they used for this revenue, because I was under the impression Groundspeak doesn't release their finanical records. I could see it either way, but without explaintion its only speculation....

Share this post


Link to post

Another reason I place MOC is to cut down on the riff-raff ... I currently have (4) MOC caches and plan to place many more.

Share this post


Link to post
Another reason I place MOC is to cut down on the riff-raff ... I currently have (4) MOC caches and plan to place many more.

I think this is why most people place MOC caches. I agree with it.

No sense in spending $20 setting up a nice cache only to have the first two or three people raid it of all the good stuff and either leave nothing or leave McJunk. Leaving MOCs might not stop that from happening completely, but it would slow it down.

I tend to think that people that have paid for a membership are more serious about the game and its integrity, than the cache raiding jerks out to get something for nothing and get the coords for free. Flame away if you like but its only my opinion.

Edited by PandyBat

Share this post


Link to post
I have to speak up and disagree with that from my own experience, hopefully not an unfounded bias. At least in my area (and I realize it may not be true elsewhere), the opposite is the norm, not the exception. Members-only caches do help protect FTF prizes and reduce or at least slow down the depreciation factor.

I'm not sure what you mean by protect FTF prizes. Protect them from finders???

As for depreciation factor, how can you determine what is the cause? is it because its being visited less? or because premium members 'always trade equal'?

I would assume you could place a cache very BFE so it gets found only once or twice a year and the vaue of the depreciation would be very slow.

 

I am finally ready to give back to the GC community by placing several caches (a series) and want to reward those who are willing to contribute. I am trying to protect the hobby/sport, not be elitist, and I do think the revenue comes from premium memberships as much as active participation.

Who/what are you protecting by placing a MOC? (or rather, how can the community benifit from a cache part of them can't know about, and others won't even bother to look for?)

Can someone provide the numbers they used for this revenue, because I was under the impression Groundspeak doesn't release their finanical records. I could see it either way, but without explaintion its only speculation....

 

Please read the reasons listed above by Renegade Knight and echoed by others (clearpath, PandyBat, and NFA) for what I mean by "protecting" the FTF prizes and better swag. Yes, I want to reward those who are willing to contribute financially to this site because (generally speaking) the premium members I've met on the hunt seem to care more about maintaining their caches and provide better trading, not always monetarily trading up, but perhaps in the form of sig items or simply by doing a TNLN and carefully putting the cache back in its proper spot. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions.

 

If you read until the end of my previous post, you'll notice that I do intend to let all members know how to find the caches after the early finds, not keep them from them. If area premium-member cachers continue their pace, I'll have no trouble getting 10 logs quickly with a good hide. This prediction is based on response to other theme caches placed in my area. If I do a poor job of preparing, hiding, stocking, and/or listing the caches, I will probably receive fewer visitors.

 

You're right about the revenue--that part is my unfounded opinion/speculation. It's just hard for me to see how more revenue could be developed than through memberships, but I guess it's possible with merchandise sales.

Edited by Teach2Learn

Share this post


Link to post

I would much rather buy merchandise supporting/advertising the game (and I do) than buy a membership. I would also quite willingly settle for a less fancy website, or one that had more banners/ads of companies beyond Groundspeak (if related to the sport).

 

Geocaching started as a celebration of GPS technology becoming available to the general public. I'd like to keep that grassroots spirit of freedom.

 

I will be sure to check out and see if Groundspeak is offering any other choices of merchandise, and keep my money where my mouth is. I'd also consider tossing a few bucks into a voluntary contribution kitty at the end of checkout, if that's available.

 

If the day comes when membership is mandatory, I'd have a BIG decision to make.

Share this post


Link to post

After reading this thread, I have created a list of reasons to place Members Only Caches. I have also added some responses to the reasons.

 

1) FTF prizes.

Experimental caches.

 

These are valid arguments for restricting a cache.

 

2) I don't want the extra traffic that the cache could create.

Sites that specifically should not be revealed in the public domain such as sensitive cave locations.

In an area that may cause problems if too many people visit the cache (undergrowth damage or concerned neighbors).

 

Caches should not be placed in areas that are dangerous, or cause problems or damage to the area they are placed in. Geocaching.com terms of use.

 

3) Cache pirates.

Less likely to get plundered.

The travel bugs in this region seem to often go 'poof.'

 

Good cache placement should things from going missing. I have had a cache go missing and I am pretty sure it was just bad placement. For the most part a GPS is needed to find the cahce, and a cache pirate is not going to spend time and money just to steal McToys, which is what is in most cahes. I know some caches have better stuff in them, but a cache pirate can’t count on every cache they go after having “Good Stuff” in it.

 

4) Encourage others to help support the web site.

 

The web site is funded by selling merchandise and by paying mebers. Geocaching is meant to be a free sport. By forcing people to pay will sour it. It doesn’t matter how you justify it, forcing people to pay for something that was meant to be free is not right. Add all sorts of member features that people are willing to pay for but keep the caches free.

 

5) “Member only” caches tend to get visited by a better group of cachers

Less junk traded

Cache is put back where it belongs.

Reserves the first few finds for those who have paid to support this site.

Raiders aren't members.

Cut down on the riff-raff.

People raid it of all the good stuff.

People that have paid for a membership are more serious about the game and its integrity.

 

This I believe is the heart of why there are member only caches be created. It is also the heart of just about every heated debate on this site. There are those who believe that if they are a paying member, that’s automatically makes them better than none paying members. It groups none paying members as lazy, careless, raiders. We take from the site, we take from the caches, we are pond scum.

 

If you look closely, you will find most paying members pay for the extra features other than a “Member Only” cache. If I was a cache pirate I would target these caches purely for the fact it would be a challenge, and the reward would be worth more. There are no MOC’s in my area, and I am glad. I would hate to think there would people in my area that thought they were better than me.

Share this post


Link to post
I would hate to think there would people in my area that thought they were better than me.

So what if someone thinks they are better than me ... who cares ... I don't. If thats the way they feel, thats their problem, not mine. :rolleyes:

 

edit - spelling

Edited by clearpath

Share this post


Link to post

 

3) Cache pirates.

Less likely to get plundered.

The travel bugs in this region seem to often go 'poof.'

 

Good cache placement should things from going missing. I have had a cache go missing and I am pretty sure it was just bad placement. For the most part a GPS is needed to find the cahce, and a cache pirate is not going to spend time and money just to steal McToys, which is what is in most cahes. I know some caches have better stuff in them, but a cache pirate can’t count on every cache they go after having “Good Stuff” in it.

 

 

If I was a cache pirate I would target these caches purely for the fact it would be a challenge, and the reward would be worth more.

First of all, it has been well-documented that some of the cache pirates were members, therefore, the MOC's were not safe. Also, they wouldn't steal the caches for the McToys, they were doing it just to tick off the owners and other cachers, so swag wasn't a factor in the process.

 

Second, a while back, someone on these forums gave a nice dissertation on how to triangulate the location of MOC's using other caches in the area, and successfully found several. I don't recall who it was, and can't find the thread right now. So, if a person was savvy enough, they could find them without being a member.

Share this post


Link to post
I would hate to think there would people in my area that thought they were better than me.

So what if someone thinks they are better than me ... who cares ... I don't. If thats the way they feel, thats their problem, not mine. :)

 

edit - spelling

I don't think I'm better than you....I know I am!!! After all, I found "Train Hunter" before you even made it out of your car! :rolleyes::lol::)

Share this post


Link to post
I would hate to think there would people in my area that thought they were better than me.

So what if someone thinks they are better than me ... who cares ... I don't. If thats the way they feel, thats their problem, not mine. :rolleyes:

 

edit - spelling

I don't think I'm better than you....I know I am!!! After all, I found "Train Hunter" before you even made it out of your car! :lol::):)

Okay Sparky, you are an exception to the rule ... :)

Share this post


Link to post
MO caches are traded down as much as others. They get muggled at the same rate. Cache-pirates have been members too

 

First of all, it has been well-documented that some of the cache pirates were members, therefore, the MOC's were not safe.

 

MOC's have an auditing feature where you can see who viewed the cache page and how many times. It can be a tool in tracking down the pirate. Its not foolproof, but if you lose x, y and z caches and you notice that member xxxxx is the only person who viewed all 3 pages, then he's probably your pirate.

Share this post


Link to post

Sparky, the more work it is for a cache maggot to do thier dirty work they less likely they are to do it. That is, was, and remains, one point of MOC.

 

It looks like one of my better caches was stolen. This one had 100 logs. Alas since I had a bad feeling it would be next I made arrangments to replace the logbook so 98 or so logs were retrieved.

 

I'd rather not place MOC but it is a solution to a real problem we have in my area.

Share this post


Link to post

Posted by PandyBat on May 31, 2004

I tend to think that people that have paid for a membership are more serious about the game and its integrity, than the cache raiding jerks out to get something for nothing and get the coords for free. Flame away if you like but its only my opinion.

 

I am personally offended by your opinion.

 

Randy

 

PS: The reasons I'm offended have already been noted in this thread so I'll refrain from restating them.

Share this post


Link to post
MO caches are traded down as much as others. They get muggled at the same rate. Cache-pirates have been members too

 

First of all, it has been well-documented that some of the cache pirates were members, therefore, the MOC's were not safe.

 

MOC's have an auditing feature where you can see who viewed the cache page and how many times. It can be a tool in tracking down the pirate. Its not foolproof, but if you lose x, y and z caches and you notice that member xxxxx is the only person who viewed all 3 pages, then he's probably your pirate.

No, xxxxx is the person who is unfairly pinned with the bum rap, while member yyyyy laughs to himself as he obtains the cache information about the MOC's in the area from his pocket queries, without ever having visited the actual cache page.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted by PandyBat on May 31, 2004
I tend to think that people that have paid for a membership are more serious about the game and its integrity, than the cache raiding jerks out to get something for nothing and get the coords for free. Flame away if you like but its only my opinion.

 

I am personally offended by your opinion.

 

Randy

 

PS: The reasons I'm offended have already been noted in this thread so I'll refrain from restating them.

Unless you are a cache raiding jerk, then you shouldn't be offended.

Share this post


Link to post
I've heard of people occasionally making a cache member's only for maybe a month or so until it's been found a couple times by cachers, and the FTF prizes have been claimed..

 

The people who place member's only caches aren't trying to say that member's are better than everyone else, but it is a way to give back to those giving to the site, and it gives non-members an incentive to become a member and support the site...

Same Here. We usually wait about a week, and usually have about 5 finds by then.

Share this post


Link to post

The Golden Rule is what prompted me to subscribe to be a premium member. I realized how much work and money must have went into this website and figured if I'd done that, I would like it if people chipped in. So I chipped in my 10 quarters a month, though I've yet to take advantage of a single amenity reserved for members, including MOCs.

 

I'm sure every premium member has a decent reason for wanting to be a member. I'm sure ever non-member has a decent reason. Maybe you think the price is too high. Maybe you only cache once a month. Whatever your reason, you're entitled to it.

 

The differences between members and non-members is almost truly negligible, as far as its impact on the sport. If a member was asked if the benefits of being a member were removed or granted to everyone, if he'd still be a member, I think 99% of them would say "Yes."

 

I realize that nobody wants to be kept out of anything. For those that are deeply disturbed by it, I suggest getting a 1 month membership for $3, printing out and logging all the nearby MOCs and then cancelling the membership. You can take advantage of all the members only options for awhile, then give them up, and pay just 10% of what everyone else does.

Share this post


Link to post

I have a MO cache set to be listed this Saturday, THe reason, It has a gift certificate for a resturant were the local cachers are having a geocache dinner. It also has some gift certifcates for Baskin Robins. The reason it is mambers only is because I do not want non members finding the gift certificates. They are the ones who spend the extra money to support the site. If some cachers do not like being left out of the MO caches, well they can learn to live with it or they can just become paid members. As hobby's go, geocaching is not all the expensive to get into. It's a lot cheaper than most.

Share this post


Link to post
I realize that nobody wants to be kept out of anything. For those that are deeply disturbed by it, I suggest getting a 1 month membership for $3, printing out and logging all the nearby MOCs and then cancelling the membership. You can take advantage of all the members only options for awhile, then give them up, and pay just 10% of what everyone else does.

Oh yeah, what a capper ... how pathetic would someone be if paying $3 a month, to support an activity that they enjoyed, caused them to feel disturbed ... get a life. :D Uh oh, maybe I should get a life for even arguing such a ridiculous point of view. :D

Share this post


Link to post

I've found only 1 "member" cache. Good swag, well maintained and challenging! I think 30 bones a year is a reasonable amount to help support the website. If you can't afford it, cito a few bottles or cans (if applicable in your state) a cache and you will have your premium membership in a bit! Paid for by litterbugs and cleaning up nature! Win Win situation! Don't flame me...just a suggestion. :D

Share this post


Link to post
I got a new cache notification just lately that when I try to access it, it turned out to be a "members only" cache. While I accept that if one pays a subscription then new benefits are made available I am at pains to understand the concept of "members only" caches.

 

When you log a cache on a public domain, and it must be as everyone gets notified, you automatically are indicating that the public can go looking for your cache. To then make your cache a "members only" must be some form of elitism as I can't see any other reason why one would do this.

More than this though is the whole concept of a "members only" cache. When I plant a cache I hope to get as many hits as possible as the reason I hid it in the first place is so I can attract people to an area I think is beautiful and worthwhile to visit. There is some pride and some sense of achievement at having made someone's day when they find one of your caches through the clues, coordinates and finally the little box of goodies at the end of it. Anyone who wants to curtail this to a specific group should then take it off the public domain surely? Where I come from geocaching activity isn't so great that our caches have heavy traffic making this idea even more ludicrous.

 

What are other's thoughts on this?

What "public domain" are you referring to? Certainly not geocaching.com, which I'm fairly sure is a privately held domain, hosted on servers that are paid for using private dollars. Some of those dollars come from premium memberships.

 

If there's anything going on here that smacks of "elitism," it's people who think they are entitled to have access to everything in the world just because they want it. Nobody's that good-looking.

 

By all means, if you want to participate without joining then do so. Enjoy the game, but don't expect to sit in the skyboxes when you just paid for a cheap seat. Membership has its privileges. You're welcome.

Share this post


Link to post

This has turned from a thread about MOC to the value of membership. My views:

  • The hiders own the caches. So if a hider makes a cache MO, then that's their business, not mine or yours. It's your choice as a hider to do what you want. Who are any of us to dare to arrogantly claim otherwise?
  • Regarding the comments of "Geocaching.com is a private site, they make the rules, etc..." YES, but it is the people participating in the sport who make the sport - it's not as if Geocaching.com creates the caches and then we find them. So, the posting and the finding of the caches is, essentially, not in the public domain but in the private domain of each hider, because the hider, in placing the cache, did not transfer ownership of the cache to Geocaching.com or anyone else. By listing the cache on Geocaching.com, they are licensing/allowing anyone to come find it and enjoy it. It's the hider's cache, not Groundspeak's (that's why I said what I said in the first item - the hider gets to set the rules.)
  • However, as a listing service adding value to the public, Groundspeak.com has the right to control/restrict the listing of any cache. That's why I support their right to do this, even though I think some of their decisions are poor (such as not handling virtuals in the way I prefer - I'd do it differently, but I support their right to do it their way.)
  • Members of Geocaching.com certainly deserve (and should expect) that they have access to web site features that others don't. That's what they are paying for with their membership. Any view that everyone should get these features (other than the listing/logging of caches) is whining without justification.

Edited by TeamJiffy

Share this post


Link to post

The Infamous Five said:

I got a new cache notification just lately that when I try to access it, it turned out to be a "members only" cache. While I accept that if one pays a subscription then new benefits are made available I am at pains to understand the concept of "members only" caches.

 

Hi folks. This thread from The Infamous Five was instigated because of us, The Cache Rangers, a team from Perth in Western Australia. We are bushwalkers that discovered the geocache site in March. So although we have been bushwalking for years, we haven't been doing geocaching very long.

 

Most of the places we have walked have caches hidden somewhere, and now we have gone back to those places to find them. We became premium members because I have worked with servers and the internet and when I saw what a great job geocache were doing I had to pay for the service.

 

Now to explain, we were finding and hiding caches and wanted to see if placing a MOC made any difference to the finds. We hid two, one members only and one regular. The MOC may have been the 1st in Western Australia, I don't know. This MOC is what The Infamous Five took offence to and started this thread. As it happened, the premium members happened to be out on the hunt so the MOC actually got more finds than the regular one in the beginning. We weren't out to offend anybody, just experimenting, so when we were accused of 'elitism' it got our hackles up. I sent a couple of emails to The Infamous Five that told them to mind their own business or whatever but now I've got it out of my system. Today we found 2 and hid 1, we're back on track again. Thanks to all those that replied to the thread.

Share this post


Link to post
i dont mind member caches, theres not many around here, but if the fee wasnt $30+ a year, maybe $20-25 instead id join, but i think the price is kinda high.

 

aj

57 cents a week? ;)

 

$2.50 a month? ;)

 

C'mon...give up one tricky coffee or bar-drink or bring your lunch to work once each month, and you will more than pay for the "premium" membership.

 

In the one MOC I have visited, the cache was in better shape, and the trade goods were nicer (no bottle caps or pennies). My area is so cache poor ;) that I wouldn't place a MOC yet, but in a while I plan on it, to give something back to people who give something to gc.com.

 

nfa

I agree, NFA. I think $30 a year is damned cheap! We all get a lot of benefits from this site, so why not support it? That's the reason I got a membership, not to get MO caches. I want to show my appreciation. It takes a lot of work to maintain a site like this.

Share this post


Link to post

I agree, NFA. I think $30 a year is damned cheap! We all get a lot of benefits from this site, so why not support it? That's the reason I got a membership, not to get MO caches. I want to show my appreciation. It takes a lot of work to maintain a site like this.

Ditto

 

When I was an non-paying cacher and saw MOCs, I didn't try to read into the hider's motivation for placing it. I figured it was a cache that only paying members could find. Kind of a duh statement but I really didn't see any reason to pursue "the real" purpose of the hide. And guess what? Now that I'm a paying member I still think they are caches for members only and I still don't care to know anymore then that simple fact. Call me apathetic to the woes of the non-paying cacher if you want to, I really just have more important things to worry about.

Edited by Elf Danach

Share this post


Link to post

The issue of supporting this site aside, the fact that many people who place MOCs are placing them based on a test which includes, singly, that you've paid money Groundspeak--then claim that it makes you a better person--is disturbing.

 

I fully admit that I once thought that way. Place a cache, make it MOC for a few weeks to "reward" others who have supported the site. Made sense back then. No longer does anymore. I woke up. Paying money to Groundspeak only supports the site, it doesn't make you a better cacher.

 

The argument of your cache getting "better" visitors is flawed. The reason you get "better" visitors is the same as the one where you get "better" visitors at the harder caches. You get the visitors who put forth more effort to claim a cache! Pure and simple. But even then, I'd wager that very high terrain caches get even "better" cachers than MOCs!

 

Personally, I'm philosophically opposed to MOCs simply because of the critieria for hunting them. I'd rather see a differently tiered scheme for protecting caches from "lesser"* cachers. (Other than boring multis, evil puzzles, or horrendous terrain.)

 

*Defining "lesser" is a completely different topic.

Share this post


Link to post
When I was an non-paying cacher and saw MOCs, I didn't try to read into the hider's motivation for placing it. I figured it was a cache that only paying members could find. Kind of a duh statement but I really didn't see any reason to pursue "the real" purpose of the hide. And guess what? Now that I'm a paying member I still think they are caches for members only and I still don't care to know anymore then that simple fact. Call me apathetic to the woes of the non-paying cacher if you want to, I really just have more important things to worry about.

Thank you.

 

I didn't care why people placed MOC before I became a paying member, and I still don't care now. I have four MOC out of 50+ total cache hides...and you know why I made them MOC? Because I felt like it. I don't need to explain why to anyone else.

Share this post


Link to post

Well the topic certainly generated a great deal of discussion. I thank you all for the insight because one thing I have become convinced of is that I need to pay the $30 and become a premium member so as to put something back into the site for all the effort spent on it to get it to where it is.

As far as the rest is concerned, even the oddly inane reply from Cache Rangers, I for one will never plant a members only cache or look for one. It's a free world.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 4

×
×
  • Create New...