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Garlic Mustard Cache


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A couple weeks ago I created a new cache,"Garlic Mustard", requiring cachers to pull a garbage sack of the weed, take a pic with their GPS and log a location. I called it a virtual, I know the similarities to a locationless but there ARE NO NEW locationless. Ther reviewer in my area, Mountain Climber, approved the cache but it was archived by hydee , who I am guessing is also a reviewer.

 

We as cachers can make HUGE impact on the spread of this weed. It is choking out our wooded areas , killing native species. The problems associated with this invasive non native have marked effect on both plants and animals, limiting food supply, competition for sunlight and destroying native fauna.

 

The cache was availaible for a few days before getting archived. In that time I received 6 emails applauding this quest.

I forwarded some to hydee in an attempt to have the cache reconsidered. I would appreicate your imput also.

OPINIONS, cachers?

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Hmmmm......maybe you could bill this as the longest-lasting CITO Event ever -- maybe call it something like "The Eternal Organic CITO", and say that it starts today, but runs forever to allow as many peope as possible to do it, and due to the amount of trash (invasive non-native flora) involved.

 

Just my $0.02 :rolleyes:

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A couple weeks ago I created a new cache,"Garlic Mustard", requiring cachers to pull a garbage sack of the weed, take a pic with their GPS and log a location. I called it a virtual, I know the similarities to a locationless but there ARE NO NEW locationless. Ther reviewer in my area, Mountain Climber, approved the cache but it was archived by hydee , who I am guessing is also a reviewer.

 

We as cachers can make HUGE impact on the spread of this weed. It is choking out our wooded areas , killing native species. The problems associated with this invasive non native have marked effect on both plants and animals, limiting food supply, competition for sunlight and destroying native fauna.

 

The cache was availaible for a few days before getting archived. In that time I received 6 emails applauding this quest.

I forwarded some to hydee in an attempt to have the cache reconsidered. I would appreicate your imput also.

OPINIONS, cachers?

So, the cache has no actual location, you find the location (where you pull weeds) and take a pic of your gps with the coords? Is that the basic idea?

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Some time ago this site placed a moratorium on listing locationless caches. As much as people might like your efforts to eliminate an invasive weed, I don't think it is fair to allow something that is really a locationless cache to be listed under the guise of it being a virtual. It looks to me like your cache was accidentally listed and then the mistake corrected. Basically if the rule is no locationless at this time, then that is the rule and it should be followed. If people start getting special treatment for certain caches, then others will start complaining and things will be a mess!

 

How about working on the problem in some other ways? For example, find locations where a lot of the weed is present and place physical caches there. You could explain about the weed on your cache page and suggest that finders help control it when they are out caching. Or maybe have a CITO and also pull some weeds? It seems to me like picking up trash and pulling invasive weeds could go together well. :rolleyes:

Edited by carleenp
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A couple weeks ago I created a new cache,"Garlic Mustard", requiring cachers to pull a garbage sack of the weed, take a pic with their GPS and log a location.  I called it a virtual, I know the similarities to a locationless but there ARE NO NEW locationless. Ther reviewer in my area, Mountain Climber, approved the cache but it was archived by hydee , who I am guessing is also a reviewer.

 

We as cachers can make HUGE impact on the spread of this weed.  It is choking out our wooded areas , killing native species.  The problems associated with this invasive non native have marked effect on both plants and animals, limiting food supply, competition for sunlight and destroying native fauna.

 

The cache was availaible for a few days before getting archived.  In that time I received 6 emails applauding this quest.

I forwarded some to hydee in an attempt to have the cache reconsidered.  I would appreicate your imput also.

OPINIONS, cachers?

So, the cache has no actual location, you find the location (where you pull weeds) and take a pic of your gps with the coords? Is that the basic idea?

On the surface it sounds like a great idea, and definitely a candidate for an exceptoin to the Locationless rule, BUT... what about the agriculturally challenged 'cacher who pulls out a bagull of a protected plant by mistake?

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Allow me to note that Hydee is not "another reviewer." She's the boss. If I had listed a locationless cache despite the moratorium under the current listing rules, I'd expect the boss to correct me. Hydee does a great job in making sure that all of the 40+ volunteer reviewers are marching in a straight line. It is not always easy as each of us are human and there are a lot of rules to keep straight in our head as we review each new cache submission. I hope she doesn't catch the one cache I listed even though it's less than 200 feet from another cache because it was 2:00 a.m. and I forgot to run a proximity search. Oops. Now she will know.

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Ther reviewer in my area, Mountain Climber, approved the cache but it was archived by hydee , who I am guessing is also a reviewer.

BTW, Hydee isn't (I don't think) a cache reviewer. She is the Queen Frog over at Groundspeak. Looks like your archive note came straight from the top.

 

[edit=opps! Keystone beat me to it!]

Edited by Mopar
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A couple weeks ago I created a new cache,"Garlic Mustard", requiring cachers to pull a garbage sack of the weed, take a pic with their GPS and log a location. I called it a virtual, I know the similarities to a locationless but there ARE NO NEW locationless. Ther reviewer in my area, Mountain Climber, approved the cache but it was archived by hydee , who I am guessing is also a reviewer.

 

We as cachers can make HUGE impact on the spread of this weed. It is choking out our wooded areas , killing native species. The problems associated with this invasive non native have marked effect on both plants and animals, limiting food supply, competition for sunlight and destroying native fauna.

 

The cache was availaible for a few days before getting archived. In that time I received 6 emails applauding this quest.

I forwarded some to hydee in an attempt to have the cache reconsidered. I would appreicate your imput also.

OPINIONS, cachers?

What did the note say??

 

Anyways, Even as a virtual its not really a GEE WOW! thing. Its a rather easy, unfortuantly, to find weed. If you want this sort of cache, why don't you figure out some way to incorporate an actual cache in there? or has been suggested create some sort of weed pulling event.

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Wow, I am really impressed with the quick and thoughtful replys to my request for imput!!

 

Archived by the top dog, hydee. I didn't know. I also never ment to be rude in any way, I am amazed with the work the Groundspeak volunteers do. Please, hydee, if you arelistening, No offence intended. And thank you to all the reviewers, I also Love this game.

 

The idea to make it into a timeless caching event- that is a great! I'm emailing hydee right away with that one. I don't really care what it is called, I would just like to see the weed impacted.

 

Kudzu- none in Indiana, perhaps one of ya'll southerners will want to take that one on.

 

There were lots of pictures of Garlic Mustard on my cache page for those botanically impared. But a person with a Farmall as their Avtair is pulling my leg.

 

I'm somewhat new to geocaching still. I'm not really looking for special exceptions- I know what a Pandora's Box that could be.

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Markwelling the other discussion in case the cache owner is interested:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=70519

My computer fritzed out and I haven't been online since the 3rd- I didn't know my little old cache had been such a topic of conversation.

 

What do I think of the folks with negative responces? Should they mind their own business? Really, my feelings don't play into this game much. The world wide web is a big areana to play in, get ready or get out.

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What's next, the Kudzu Microcache Weedhunt?

Exactly what I what I was thinking. I don't think the topic starter has ever seen kudzu before or the crusade would be different.

 

How about ridding the world of poison ivy, poison oak, poison sumac, hemlock (the plant, not the cache reviewer!), wisteria, honeysuckle, purple loosestrife, water chestnut, Japanese knotweed, alligatorweed, floating fern, water hyacinth, water lettuce, eastern watermilfoil, hydrilla, melaleuca, the common reed, the old world climbing fern, leafy spurge and cypress spurge, Canadian thistle, musk thistle, bull thistle, spenderflower thistle, plumeless thistle, multiflora rose, wetland nightshade, turkey berry, tropical soda apple, Brazilian peppertree, mile-a-minute, skunk vine, cogon grass and phragmites.

 

;)

 

Or we could just hide and find tupperware. That is my preference.

 

I really hope we don't have event caches for weeds. :lol: No thanks.

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So don't do it. Or Don't attend.

By the way, one would have to be blind to have never seen kudzu. You ASSume too much. Different plant. different root system, different problem.

 

As for the rest of the species listed: perhaps someone else will tackle those.

This toipc is GARLIC MUSTARD.

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I'll have to part with Mtn-man on this one. Invasive plants are a major problem in many areas and ripping them out is as much a public service as CITO, if not more. Litter is unsightly but usually does no real harm. Invasive plants can change the environment and destroy habitat.

 

I know some parks would be thrilled to have a group of volunteers come down and help get rid of certain plants. As long as the group is organized by someone who knows what they are doing (improper removal and disposal can aggravate the problem) and has the approval of the park, this can be a good thing and positive exposure for geocachers.

 

Who says the only service we should perform for our parks is removing beer cans?

Edited by briansnat
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As for the rest of the species listed: perhaps someone else will tackle those. 

This toipc is GARLIC MUSTARD.

Well, since the topic is about a locationless cache about garlic mustard, then I will quote the guidelines.

 

Locationless Caches

 

There is currently a moratorium on locationless caches. No caches will be posted until functionality is available to better serve this unique category.

 

They are not being accepted so your cache was archived.

You have also suggested an event cache.

 

Event Caches

 

Event caches are gatherings for geocachers by geocachers to discuss geocaching.  After the event has passed, the event cache is archived.  While a music concert, a garage sale, a ham radio field day or an orienteering event might be of interest to a large percentage of geocachers, such events are not suitable for submission as event caches because the primary focus of these events is not geocaching and the primary attendees are not geocachers.  In addition, an event cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for an organized hunt of another cache or caches.  Such group hunts are best organized using the forums or an email distribution list.

 

For geocaching events that involve several components, such as a day-long group cache hunt that also involves a seminar and dinner, only a single event cache covering all components should be submitted.

 

You idea does not qualify under either one of these categories.

 

Regarding a CITO event:

 

CITO Event Caches

 

The idea of Cache In Trash Out (CITO) came about in the fall of 2000 as a way for geocachers to contribute to the beautification of our local parks and lands.  You may find more information about the CITO program at www.geocaching.com/cito.

 

The CITO event cache category was added to differentiate cleanup events from other types of event caches.  Use this category when you are asking geocachers to show up on a particular day to pick up litter at a park, remove piles of junk near a popular waterfront, etc.  Do NOT use this category for a physical cache that is placed in an area that is need of cleanup – just mention the CITO opportunity on your cache page.

 

If you have an event you feel fits within the spirit of this unique category, yet are still unsure, please seek permission before submitting.

 

Based on the last sentence, I think you need to send an email to the contact address for disposition. The owners of the site would have to make that call.

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On the surface it sounds like a great idea, and definitely a candidate for an exceptoin to the Locationless rule, BUT... what about the agriculturally challenged 'cacher who pulls out a bagull of a protected plant by mistake?

 

This was my first thought along with if an area is a 'protected' area even if it is an invasive weed it may be illegal to remove any kind of plant from a protected area.

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Poison oak, ivy and sumac are all native species. The others were accidental or deliberate imports that have gained a foothold and are overunning the native population. Much as i agree with the concept, Geocaching is for hiding and finding caches, not saving the environment. Let the tree huggers who give cachers a bad time get out and do that. What comes next ? Shoot the Starling cache? or Catch an English Sparrow or Nail a Ringneck Pheasant cache? They are non-native too. No thanks. Let's stick to caching. Just my two cents.

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Poison oak, ivy and sumac are all native species. The others were accidental or deliberate imports that have gained a foothold and are overunning the native population.

Don't forget this is a world-wide website.

 

Interesting fact #1: In the 1600s, poison ivy was exported to Europe as a medicinal plant, used as a laxative and a diuretic, and to treat skin ailments. After its popularity as a medicinal plant waned, the French started using it in gardens. This native American plant is now naturalized in parts of Europe.

 

So in some places, removing PI is just as valid as removing Garlic Mustard (and neither of them is a geocache!).

 

Hey, since it looks like weeds cant be a geocache, maybe we can make a Kill a Snakehead Fish Locationless Cache instead! :lol:

Edited by Mopar
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I would think that if you were to find areas local to you where this weed is a problem and set up a CITO event to pull the weed, that could be approved. We have had similar events here in Washington to remove invasive English Ivy from parks.

 

It would have to have a specific location and time, not an open ended pull it whereever you are. We should ALL practice CITO on every cache hunt.

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QUOTE (The Leprechauns @ May 19 2004, 11:51 AM)

Colonel Mustard, by any chance is your first name "Garlic"???

 

 

But perhaps you are afraid this is getting too close to home?

 

I knew that was coming. As far as poison ivy being introduced to other parts of the world, then yes in my opinion it is legitimate to remove it. Heck I'm in favor of removing MOST poison ivy, native or not. I just don't think it should be a geocache theme to promote doing it. Can garlic mustard be put on hot dogs? Maybe an event cache with a few BBQ grills would get by the approvers.

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Hi,

 

make it an event and not a vitual that is actually a locationless (deception will get you snagged sooner, not even sooner or later), and you will be set...alternately, you can list it on one of the other geocaching sites as an unknown/mystery/nature/etc type.

 

nfa

Edited by NFA
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Actually, the other traditional geocaching sites don't accept locationless caches either. One site is built just for locationless caches especially, but a cache of this type is not shown in their list of cache types.

 

http://www.ecoscavenger.com/types.php

 

I would not recommend trying to disguise an event and/or changing it after it is approved. Remember that there are many local reviewers and many of them attend events regularly. Deception like that is not a good thing and will most likely be revealed at some point.

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I wasn't serious about trying to deceive anyone. But here's an idea. Make a regular cache in the garlic mustard area filled with yard leaf bags and a good picture of the weed. Offer to send co-ordinates to a special prize cache to anyone who posts a picture of a bag full of weeds taken from the origanal cache location. You may get some takers, plus you create a viable cache (or two).

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And well, there you go.

 

After the Garlic Mustard haters got their approval in on pulling the weed, the

"Cache for Caching" group got rolling and BOY. are you guys more vocal! In the long run you are also in agreement with the Boss Hydee.

 

Just to set everyone straight, I based Garlic Mustard Cache on an existing virtual. You know which one. It allows you to log a cache anywhere.

 

Hydee knows which one, I'll not give it up.

 

So, as much as I'd like to be able to claim some devious thought and scandal, I just wanted to incorporate a little weed genocide with caching.

 

Hey, I do it even without a claiming a cache.

'

By the way, I love it when folks quote the rules to me.

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Well, since I was the only one quoting rules, I guess you mean me.

 

So don't do it.  Or Don't attend.

By the way, one would have to be blind to have never seen kudzu.  You ASSume too much.  Different plant.  different root system, different problem.

 

As for the rest of the species listed: perhaps someone else will tackle those. 

This toipc is GARLIC MUSTARD.

 

I also love it when people cuss at me indirectly and when they shout at me. (All caps on the Internet it considered shouting, and I think everyone knew what you meant in the first part that I made bold above.)

 

Or maybe not.

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By the way, I love it when folks quote the rules to me.

You don't mean that mtn-man guy, do ya? I would think as a long-time (and helpful) cache reviewer and one of the names listed here as one of the Forum Moderators, the dude just might be qualified to quote the rules to you or anyone else.

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After the Garlic Mustard haters got their approval in on pulling the weed, the

"Cache for Caching" group got rolling and BOY. are you guys more vocal! In the long run you are also in agreement with the Boss Hydee.

 

Just to set everyone straight, I based Garlic Mustard Cache on an existing virtual. You know which one. It allows you to log a cache anywhere.

 

Hydee knows which one, I'll not give it up.

 

So, as much as I'd like to be able to claim some devious thought and scandal, I just wanted to incorporate a little weed genocide with caching.

 

Hey, I do it even without a claiming a cache.

'

By the way, I love it when folks quote the rules to me.

 

Your cause is a worthy one, but its not a geocache. That's all people are saying here. There is a good chance you can make it into a CITO event "cache" and target an area where it is a problem. Why not work with the system?

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By the way, I love it when folks quote the rules to me.

You don't mean that mtn-man guy, do ya? I would think as a long-time (and helpful) cache reviewer and one of the names listed here as one of the Forum Moderators, the dude just might be qualified to quote the rules to you or anyone else.

So there!! .. really though. I've met mtn-man at a few local GGA meetings and he is a good guy. He'll go out of his way to answer questions and help whenever asked. And no I dont have a cache under review :ph34r:

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Your cause is a worthy one, but its not a geocache.  That's all people are saying here. There is a good chance you can make it into a CITO event "cache" and target an area where it is a problem.  Why not work with the system?

That's a great point briansnat.

 

Carleenp suggested at the top of the topic that you create a CITO event where you pick up trash and go after the weed in the same area. You kill two birds with one stone.

 

The point raised about the possibility of removing the wrong plant is a good one. My wife is a GA Certified Nurseryman and Certified Green Industry Professional. I know that she would probably know the right thing to remove. On the other hand, I am clueless and barely know the difference between Virginia Creeper and Poison Ivy. I personally would not feel comfortable going out on my own without someone who knew exactly what to remove. That's a flaw in doing this as a cache as opposed to an organized, well planned effort.

 

I do agree that your cause is a good one and the thought is meritorious. Man, when I have cleared trails I go off-trail in thick brush to go get briars and cut them down to the ground. I hate them that much. I also don't want them getting near the trail and jabbing hikers or their kids. Here again, as good of an idea as it is to remove them it is not geocaching.

 

Sorry, but just try to stick to the guidelines.

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That's a great point briansnat.

 

Carleenp suggested at the top of the topic that you create a CITO event where you pick up trash and go after the weed in the same area. You kill two birds with one stone.

 

The point raised about the possibility of removing the wrong plant is a good one. My wife is a GA Certified Nurseryman and Certified Green Industry Professional. I know that she would probably know the right thing to remove.

An excellent point, and yet another talent I didn't know about the wonderfully tolerant Athena^!!!!

 

At my local group's recent CITO event, one of the planned projects was removal of invasive non-native vines around the shore of a small lake. A parks department volunteer trained that group on which vines to leave in place (the native ones) and which ones to cut, and she personally supervised their activities all morning. It was an excellent, well-organized effort.

 

On the other hand, I am clueless

 

I can't disagree with that, either!

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I have several problems with this whole weed-pulling/locationless cache:

1) In Ohio, it is estimated that at least 30% of the vegetation is non-native. Some, such as garlic mustard, lesser celadine, Japanese knotweed, etc. is more aggresive than others. But there are still a lot of aliens out there. The percentage in other states is probably similiar.

2) It is sometimes extremely difficult to tell what is a "weed" and what is native. I witnessed one "weeder" who was so intent on removing all of the garlic mustard in an area that he pulled everything, including the spring wildflowers that were growing amongst the mustard, leaving a bare patch of ground.

3) There is actually a very short period of time in the spring when pulling garlic mustard is actually effective, about three weeks. Once the flowers die off, the seeds have already dropped. Some people pull the plants throughout the year, but it just makes them feel like they're accomplishing something, it doesn't help stop the spread of the plant.

4) I thought locationless caches were supposed to be something that is a little harder to find. I can pull a bagful of garlic mustard in five minutes within a few feet of a parking lot.

 

Do you really want to help remove invasive plants?

Contact your local park system and offer your services.

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Well, since I was the only one quoting rules, I guess you mean me.

 

I also love it when people cuss at me indirectly and when they shout at me. (All caps on the Internet it considered shouting, and I think everyone knew what you meant in the first part that I made bold above.)

 

Or maybe not.

I DO LOVE IT WHEN PEOPLE QUOTE RULES TO ME. AGAIN, YOU assume TOO MUCH!!! I ALSO KNOW WHAT CAPITAL LETTERS MEAN.

 

I'm not often accused of being indirect.

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I DO LOVE IT WHEN PEOPLE QUOTE RULES TO ME.  AGAIN, YOU assume TOO MUCH!!!  I ALSO KNOW WHAT CAPITAL LETTERS MEAN.

 

I'm not often accused of being indirect.

Ah, well then, let me quote the forum guidelines to you as well.

 

Some things to keep in mind when posting:

 

Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect.

 

Foul Language and obscene images will not be tolerated. This site is family friendly, and all posts and posters must respect the integrity of the site.

 

Personal Attacks and Flames will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad, general attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated.

 

<snip>

 

About our Moderators: Forum Moderators are community volunteers that give up their time to help build a better community. They will assist with focusing topics and enforcing guidelines. They have the ability to edit/delete posts, to move, close or delete topics, and to temporarily moderate users’ posts. Our moderators are equipped with Kevlar flak jackets and an unlimited supply of admin bricks. Do not attempt to engage them in direct combat.

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Well, since I was the only one quoting rules, I guess you mean me.

 

I also love it when people cuss at me indirectly and when they shout at me.  (All caps on the Internet it considered shouting, and I think everyone knew what you meant in the first part that I made bold above.)

 

Or maybe not.

I DO LOVE IT WHEN PEOPLE QUOTE RULES TO ME. AGAIN, YOU assume TOO MUCH!!! I ALSO KNOW WHAT CAPITAL LETTERS MEAN.

 

I'm not often accused of being indirect.

People tend to quote rules to illustrate what they are saying. It is informative for anyone who is unaware of what the rules are. I guess I don't understand what is offensive about quoting rules????? :ph34r:

 

Anyway, a virtual that can be logged anywhere is a locationless cache. The site does not list those at this time. I still think you could find other solutions though such as single CITO events etc.

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I do love it when people quote rules. Rules are good.

 

When creating Garlic Mustard Cache, I found an existing, current virtual and copied the format. The concept was not origional. I simply changed the quest.

Perhaps this existing cache was grandfathered.

 

According to the rules, as quoted above, Garlic Mustard Cache has no availaible opportunity in geocaching. It is not a traditional, or Virtual, or Event. The it isn't even within the standards for a CITO.

 

The majority of the replys to this thread have not been in support of this cache, for many and varied reasons. Clearly, geocaching is not a good forum for this type of activity. I asked the question and got the answer.

 

Thanks for all the imput.

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The cache was availaible for a few days before getting archived. In that time I received 6 emails applauding this quest.

52fda8fe-b358-42aa-a9a3-79cfae5640bb.jpg

 

9a6bcdc0-212b-44a2-aaa0-9dbb0aa142dc.jpg

 

We appreciate your efforts and the attention you have drawn to Garlic Mustard!

 

I would have joined the discussion earlier, but I have been out bagging the wicked weed.

 

:huh:

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I do love it when people quote rules. Rules are good.

 

When creating Garlic Mustard Cache, I found an existing, current virtual and copied the format. The concept was not origional. I simply changed the quest.

Perhaps this existing cache was grandfathered.

Well, since you like things quoted to you, here's an explanation from the cache hiding guidlines, explaining both why your "I copied an existing cache" isn't a good arguement FOR your cache, and why someone started a tread asking about your cache when they saw it, leading to Hydee "un-approving" it. (Yes, the existing cache was likely 'grandfathered')

 

First and foremost please be advised there is no precedent for placing caches.  This means that the past approval of a similar cache in and of itself is not a valid justification for the approval of a new cache.  If a cache has been posted and violates any guidelines listed below, you are encouraged to report it.
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Leprechauns,

Can you send me any links or info about the event in your area that included the invasive ivy removal. My husband just finished getting a geocaching policy approved in the open space preserve that he is a ranger in. We had a lot of fun with the policy, trying even to tailor it somewhat to be open to the tastes of local geocachers. A CITO event would be such a blast. There really are a Lot of ways that helpful projects could be incorporated for people that are interested.

We have some really troublesome invasives here in So. Cal too, like Arundo, which chokes waterways, and another mustard, that can look pretty, but doesn't help any of the native birds or other critters.

 

thanks for the interesting thread. One thing though, some people are seemingly (IMO) hyper-sensitive and prone to take any possible thing the worst way. Please don't. I mean, the thing with the word assume, and what it makes out of 'u' and 'me', well, it is true. assumptions lead too often to mis-understandings.

 

ah gee, hold on, edited here to add, I sincerely mean no offense to Anyone, not a single one of you, I am just giving my view, and I really don't even take myself to seriously. :huh:

 

namaskar :D

Edited by norbu
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