Cachemate Importing Speed

[+shunra]

My old antique Palm (IIIe) died, and I got a new antique Palm (m105) to play with. the advantage of the 'upgrade' is that the m105 can store many more caches thatn the IIIe, which I will need, for my upcoming trip to Europe.

 

Uploading a new database (some 600 caches) from the PC to the Palm has always taken several long minutes. Upon completion, the newly uploaded caches always needed to be integrated into the existing database, even when I had deleted that database beforehand. This integration process used to take an additional minute or two on the IIIe.

 

On the m105 it took me more than an hour (!). Is this normal? Does anyone have a similar experience?

[+planetrobert]

uncheck the MERGE button in the prefrnces maybe?

 

i have a m515 and have about 3000 constantly loaded and it only takes but a minute to load more with that option off.

[+shunra]

uncheck the MERGE button in the prefrnces maybe?

 

i have a m515 and have about 3000 constantly loaded and it only takes but a minute to load more with that option off.

Ahhh!

 

Thanks, Ralann, I'll give that a try!

[+Maeglin]

The thing with that, though, is that you need to delete all records from CacheMate before importing with merge disabled, unless you like having a lot of duplicate records. Depending on how you tend to do things, that may not matter, but some people like to keep their entered logs in the database.

[+bartacus]

On the m105 it took me more than an hour (!). Is this normal? Does anyone have a similar experience?

Once a week, I update the CacheMate DB on my Palm V. (I used a Zire before.)

 

True, it does take a while to merge new data with existing data, especially with such slow processors and tight memory limits. My solution is to limit merges/overwrites as much as possible. For example:

 

My PQ lists the nearest 500 caches to my home coords.

• Use CMConvert to create a PDB with unfound caches, with 5 past logs.
  
• Use CMConvert to create a PDB with found caches, with no logs.
  (They're just for reference --- who needs logs?)
  

Then (each week) I completely remove CacheMate from the PDA, and reload.

(You do keep your CM serial number in Memo Pad, right?)

 

When reloading the converted queries, load the larger one first (unfound in my case), so that you minimize the processing time needed to merge the second query.

 

I've also found that using different catergories helps speed things up, too. Even after I've loaded my "Not Found" and "Found" caches, it takes no time at all to drop in my third query --- local benchmarks.

 

Sure, this is a bit more effort, but I'd bet that it takes less time than waiting on that 20mHz processor to chew through importing/merging 600 caches.

[+shunra]

bartacus,

Why completely remove CM, rather than just delete all the records?

As to the serial number: I'm not sure I kept it, but I installed CM on my new PDA without being asked. Apparently you only need the serial number for the instalation on your PC.

 

Maeglin,

 

you need to delete all records from CacheMate before importing with merge disabled

 

are you saying I should delete the existing database (which I already do), AND inport with merge disabled? Doesn't deleting alone prevent duplicates?

 

Does merge just compare a new record against the old records, or does it also check it against other new records which are being uploaded as part of the same batch? I should imagine it's the former, but then I don't understand why I should do both things. Unless I misunderstood you...

 

Thanks for clarifying!

[+Maeglin]

are you saying I should delete the existing database (which I already do), AND inport with merge disabled? Doesn't deleting alone prevent duplicates?

What I meant was, if you're going to turn off the import record merging, to delete all records before you import any. You're right in that, for each particular import file, it only checks new records against existing ones that were there when it started merging that file into the main database.

 

You can delete all of the records in the database, though, without deleting the database itself. Just select All for the list view category, and then Delete Records from the Record menu. That way, any changes you've made to the category list will be intact.

 

If you're able to use the memory card support, that not only frees up some of the PDAs main memory, but also improves import speed because it does it in a different (and more efficient) way. Other things can potentially speed up as well, because the records that it's loading for things like the list view and nearest cache search aren't nearly as large.

[+NightPilot]

Shunra, the M105 is dog-slow on syncing. I know, I have one on the shelf. Even with the memory only about half-full, a hotsync used to take almost half the battery charge. When the memory-hold capacitor went dead, that became a real issue, and that capacitor WILL go bad on all M105s, eventually. That coupled with the lack of an expansion card slot, convinced me to get a better Palm, and I've never looked back. I tried transferring cache data via IR from my Zire 71 so I would only have to worry about the M105 in the woods, but I decided it wasn't worth the hassle, so back on the shelf it went.

[+shunra]

Shunra, the M105 is dog-slow on syncing. I know, I have one on the shelf. Even with the memory only about half-full, a hotsync used to take almost half the battery charge. When the memory-hold capacitor went dead, that became a real issue, and that capacitor WILL go bad on all M105s, eventually. That coupled with the lack of an expansion card slot, convinced me to get a better Palm, and I've never looked back. I tried transferring cache data via IR from my Zire 71 so I would only have to worry about the M105 in the woods, but I decided it wasn't worth the hassle, so back on the shelf it went.

Thanks, Maeglin, at least I now know that I'm doing it right!

 

Nightpilot, thanks for your input, too. It's the kind of information that should be out there for people looking for a cheap second-hand PDA. When I was looking for one, people were just telling me that any Palm will do, and when my IIIe dies, the only improvement I knew I needed was 8 instead of 2 MB. I never imagined that processing speed would be worse

[+Learned Gerbil]

I can't see why the m105 shoul be any slower than the IIIe - they both have the same 16Mhz processor. The m105 has the EZ version, but my understanding was that they ran exactly the same as the earlier 16Mhz Dragonballs.

[+NightPilot]

I never owned a IIIe, so I don't know if the M105 is slower, faster, or the same with hotsync speeds, but the processor speed isn't what determines the hotsync speed, AFAIK. The serial connection, and the way its implemented, is the choke point. I've seen hotsyncs take over an hour on the M105, with the RAM being far from full when completed.

 

It seems obvious to me, though, that it will take longer to hotsync 8 MB than 2 MB in any case.

Edited May 11, 2004 by NightPilot

[+shunra]

I never owned a IIIe, so I don't know if the M105 is slower, faster, or the same with hotsync speeds, but the processor speed isn't what determines the hotsync speed, AFAIK. The serial connection, and the way its implemented, is the choke point. I've seen hotsyncs take over an hour on the M105, with the RAM being far from full when completed.

 

It seems obvious to me, though, that it will take longer to hotsync 8 MB than 2 MB in any case.

Thanks, LG and NP!

 

The hotsynching takes about the same time for the IIIe and M105 - about 5 minutes -, but then I've always hotsynched the same amount of data.

 

The difference between the two was not in the hotsynching time, but the database merging time. Before my next caching trip, I'll make double sure I delete the old database before hotsynching and merging.

 

So - what would you guys recommend as a good PDA, if all I want to do is have it run cachemate?

[+Learned Gerbil]

I had no problem with a Palm IIIxe, which is essentially the same as the m105, all they did was change the casing and make the screen smaller on the m105. Inever had problems merging taking more than a few minutes, but I was only dealing with about 2Mb of Cachemate data.

[+Pharisee]

It's not really relevant to the current discussion about Palm IIIe or M105 but out of interest, I use a Garmin iQue 3600 which runs some sort of Palm software(?). The Hotsync (via USB) takes less that 1 minute and the subsequent merging of 500 cachemate records into a database of some 1400 takes about 2 minutes.

[+TeamThompson]

Hey all,

 

As a former long-time Palm employee I think I can shed some light on the speed differences you are all seeing.

 

The HotSync speed for the Palm IIIxe and m105 should be about the same as they both are using a normal serial line. The iQue will have a faster sync due to its use of USB (much faster).

 

Database manipulations are going to be faster on the m105 due to efficiency improvements in the version of PalmOS running on the m105. The m105 and IIIxe are running "essentially" the same processor though the m105 might be running a faster version of the DragonBall.

 

The iQue on the other hand is running PalmOS 5.X on an ARM processor _much_ faster.

 

Hope this helps,

Bruce.

[+NightPilot]

Merging databases does take processor power, and the processor will make a difference. On my Zire 71, merging something over 300 caches takes a few seconds. I've never measured it accurately, but it's certainly less than 10 seconds. Hotsync speed varies, depending on how many changes I've made to how many files, but I rarely hotsync, only to set the time on my Palm using TimeCopy. If I want to install files I do it via the SD card and a card reader, and I back up the handheld to the card with BackupMan, and back up the SD card to the PC using the card reader. This is orders of magnitude faster. I can download zip files directly to the card, then unzip the Palm files directly to the Palm using HandZipper, no hotsync involved.

 

As for a PDA recommendation, I think the new Zire 31 would work, although I haven't tried it. I wouldn't buy any model without an expansion slot, though, and you may be able to get an older model used or refurbed a lot cheaper than you can buy a current model new. An M130 or even an M125 will certainly do the job, as will any of the M5xx series. Palm is just coming out with new models, so lots of people may be dumping their older models.