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If we have the necessity to leave human waste while on a cache - what is the appropriate thing to do with it and the TP? Should it be carried out (so have some pooper scooper supplies), buried (how deep) or left?

 

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"The Road goes ever on and on, out form the door where it began. Now far ahead the Road has gone, Let others follow it who can!"

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If it works for bears, it works for me...

 

Some areas do expect you to carry it out, that sounds ludicrous to me. Is ours worse than any other critter? Of course, we generally use TP, but that disinegrates in no time.

 

I say when in nature, do what's natural. icon_razz.gif

 

Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm halfway through my fish burger and I realize, Oh my God....I could be eating a slow learner.

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I decided to do a search, since I'm unfamiliar with why waste is packed out.

 

Seems the primary issue is passing disease to animals, much like bilge water in ships cannot be dumped after a long journey since it may impact the local aquatic species.

 

I found some info on the BLM web site. I think the short answer (as always) is "it depends." The BLM, for example, recommends using "catholes" and not to bury your waste due to the slow rate of decomposition. But feel free to pee anywhere.

 

BTW, I have heard that this is an excellent book about this and other outdoor issues. Don't click on the link if you tend to be offended by the poop word that starts with s-

 

frog.gif Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

 

[This message was edited by Jeremy on July 06, 2003 at 01:10 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by DeskJocky:

Well you are supposed to do it 300 feet away from any trail, stream or water source (and cache too). You are supposed to cover it up and bury it 6 inches in the ground. A 4" trowl is recommend for this...


 

Something you forgot - pee/poo on the DOWNHILL or DOWNSTREAM side of any of those things.

 

Ask any ground-pounder or Scout how he manages & you'll get some inventive answers.

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I've been to national parks that require you to pack it out (at least they supply the "rest stop to go2" and I can understand why in those places) but since we can't cache there it probably isn't necessary to do so.

 

Just remember to do it away from the trail and far enough away from creeks, rivers, and lakes. And make sure to wipe with that little plant that has 3 waxy green leaves, it's quilted just like charmin.

 

"...Not all those who wander are lost..."

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Never, ever leave human waste while on a cache. Move a few feet away!

 

Seriously, in most instances, digging a cat hole at least 150 feet from a water source is fine.

In some more sensitive areas, or heavily used areas, they recommend packing it out (sorry, I think I'll draw the line there).

 

Another method that is gaining some supporters is simply to smear it on a large rock or boulder (hopefully far from spots frequented by others). The thought is that it will decompose very quickly when exposed to the elements and bacteria. Again, make certain you aren't close to water if using this method.

 

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

 

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on July 06, 2003 at 09:15 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

Another method that is gaining some supporters is simply to smear it on a large rock or boulder >snip<


 

Oh great, I'll have to add this to the list of hazards of climbing...right under 'rockfall'.. icon_smile.gif

 

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Take everything you like seriously, except yourselves. - Rudyard Kipling (1865 - 1936)

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If you are concerned about spreading diseaese from snapping one off in the outdoors try carrying a small quantity of disinfectant with you and pour it over your um scat.small bottles can be purchased and easily carried. icon_biggrin.gif

 

don,t touch my dog there he doesn,t like it

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quote:
If you are concerned about spreading diseaese from snapping one off in the outdoors try carrying a small quantity of disinfectant with you and pour it over your um scat.small bottles can be purchased and easily carried.

 

Or bring a jar filled with rubbing alcohol or cheap vodka and just evacuate into the jar, close the lid and bingo, you have a sterile, clean and spill proof method of transporting the stuff! Just don't leave it on the shelf next to the gefelte fish.

 

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

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You are required to pack out your waste in a lot of national parks.

My own experience was in the Mt. Shasta Wilderness area while climbing the mountain a few years ago.

The reasons are,

3. The eco system on the mountain is very fragile.

2. On most of the mountain it's below freezing most of the year so if you leave anything, it'll be there a long time.

1. Most people are not not knowledgeable in the etiquette of going outdoors, so inevitably some slob will leave his doings where other climbers will encounter it.

 

They give you packages to carry with you and a bin to put them in when you get back.

The package is a paper bag inside a large zip lock bag. In the paper bag is a measure of cat litter and a large paper "Target"

The idea is to hit the bulls eye, pour on the cat litter, fold up the corners of the paper target and put that inside the paper bag and put the paper bag in the zip lock bag.

 

It's a good system and it's not so hard to do. Just as easy as digging a hole. The difficult part is finding a safe place in your pack to keep the bag during the climb down.

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Well now. I have resisted comment until now.

 

First of all I'd like to add to the smear it on the rocks comment. Watch for sharp lava rock. Inspite of having our butts chewed at work this is a tender area and lava rock will highlight this tenerness.

 

Second there is no place like home. So most of us wait until we get home to take care of business.

 

Third if you are gonig to have a pants filling emergency you will improvise and that's ok. It's not like bears and rabbits don't do this in the woods.

 

Fourth. The reason to pack it out is entirely because so many people visit national and state parks. It becoms like doggie land mines at the neighborhood park. Packing it out is the only way to deal with the quantity.

 

Fifth for that remote geocache improvise how you will take care of your business and bury it as a courtesy. Even if you are supposed to pack it out if you didn't plan ahead and bring the right equipment, bury it. Job done. No one will put you in jail for having an emergency.

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quote:
And make sure to wipe with that little plant that has 3 waxy green leaves, it's quilted just like charmin.

 

People in Erie, PA like having a rash on their bum.

 

''Leaves of three, let them be!''

 

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves.

Henry David Thoreau

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most of the time, i'll wait to poop at home. i try to be well-hydrated, so i have to pee frequently. sometimes it's hard to tell if you're peeing near a cache, especially if you're hunting a long micro multi. the good news is that sometimes it rains.

 

and you all might think i'm gross, but i never pack TP. i don't want to have to bring it out. i race mountain bikes, for pete's sake. tribal custom does not involve either TP or underwear.

 

a freind of mine peed in the woods while caching last week and didn't have a baggie in which to put her used TP (on which she insisted), so she CARRIED it waving flaglike in the breexe for half a mile.

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

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If you take part in the Eco-challenge, you are expect to pack out everything you take in. EVERYTHING! Period!

 

But if you don't want to pack it out....find a place off the trail and leave it there(NOT IN WATERSHEDS)...

 

cover with a debris, and let nature take care of it...

 

Give me a Tall ship, and a Star to steer her bye...

 

The White Fleet....

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I read the book in question a few years back and if I remember in the Grand Canyon they were using, and still do use ammo cans to pack it out. They called them groovers from the marks they leave. The problem is at the end of the trip no one wanted to deal with them so people were leaving the full box along the road or in the desert. I hope no geocachers ever finds one of these ammo cans and opens it! http://www.sidsports.com/groovers.html

 

We Might Be Giants

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In places that see a lot of traffic, burying your TP is not such a good thing, even the biodegradable stuff takes a year at least to degrade...that is if the animals don't spread it around first, which is what they usually do.

 

There was another thread that dealt with issues like this. It got a little heated, and was kinda funny, all at the same time.

 

____________________________________________________________

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

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Refer to these sites.

 

 

http://www.lnt.org

 

The basic LNT teachings are designed for the casual or less experienced backcountry visitor. The advanced courses go into more detail and the exceptions to the general recommendations listed on the site.

 

 

http://www.wilderness.net/pubs/183.pdf

 

This last one is a scientific analysis of various backcountry practices. It is a bit dated, so some of the findings listed have subsequently been updated.

 

===========================================================

"The time has come" the Walrus said "to speak of many things; of shoes and ships and sealing wax, of cabbages and Kings".

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quote:
Originally posted by sept1c_tank:

Toilet paper is very slow to disintegrate. At the very least, it should be covered with heavy sticks or rocks so the area is not defaced.


"Aha! The cache must be under that Unnatural Rock Pile...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!"

 

Flat_MiGeo_B88.gif

Well the mountain was so beautiful that this guy built a mall and a pizza shack

Yeah he built an ugly city because he wanted the mountain to love him back -- Dar Williams

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quote:
Originally posted by Dinoprophet:

quote:
Originally posted by sept1c_tank:

Toilet paper is very slow to disintegrate. At the very least, it should be covered with heavy sticks or rocks so the area is not defaced.


"Aha! The cache must be under that Unnatural Rock Pile...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!"


ROTFLMAO!

 

Took sun from sky, left world in eternal darkness bandbass.gif

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This is why I placed a new roll of TP in my cache, and will place one in each one that I make. I may even check on personalized zip locks to leave TP as a signature item!

 

It's not a sport unless there is something dead in the back of the truck when you get home.

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We stopped at a rest area north of Hondo, Tx. for a cache last thursday, only to find the hidding spot had been used for a toilet. Lots of TP strewn about. Looked really disgusting. Since we had the kids along, we turned around and left. If I had been alone, I would of looked for it anyways. This was during our evacuation from hurricane Rita and was our only cache we stopped to look for. Had more planned for the Kerrville area, but since Rita kept turning north, we left friday and came back home.

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If we have the necessity to leave human waste while on a cache - what is the appropriate thing to do

 

Waymark it. eeew.gif

Thought the Waymark idea was to enable you to find something?! mmmm not sure I'd fancy being FTF this one! :P

Anyway, great thread with some interesting thoughts and humour. Decided it deserved to be returned to the top of the heap, er pile, er.... you know what I mean.

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BTW, I have heard that <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0898156270/qid=1057521584/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/002-7543318-2808057?v=glance&s=books&n=507846" TARGET=_blank>this is an excellent book</A> about this and other outdoor issues. Don't click on the link if you tend to be offended by the poop word that starts with s-<BR><BR>frog.gif<!--graemlin::P--> Jeremy Irish<BR>Groundspeak - The Language of Location<BR><BR>[This message was edited by Jeremy on July 06, 2003 at 01:10 PM.]

It is a good book. Though it does have a somewhat humorous spin on it, the material contained within is intended to convey useful info.

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I found the book Jeremy listed on half.com for .50 so I ordered it. If you get a chance check out the <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0898156270/ref=lib_dp_TFCV/104-3708068-3860746?v=glance&s=books&vi=reader#reader-link" TARGET=_blank>table of contents</A> - they had me laughing until I was ready to ... uh, see title of book!<BR><BR>=========<BR>"The Road goes ever on and on, out form the door where it began. Now far ahead the Road has gone, Let others follow it who can!" <BR>

I was laughing about this book (I'm at work) and one of the women here said, "Hey, I have that book!" She's going to bring it in. (She suffers from chronic "problems" in that area.)

 

Also, I knew a guy who wiped with poison oak. Two different times. Wow.

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Another method that is gaining some supporters is simply to smear it on a large rock or boulder (hopefully far from spots frequented by others). The thought is that it will decompose very quickly when exposed to the elements and bacteria. Again, make certain you aren't close to water if using this method.

THis is a very good technique as it allows the fecies ot break down by microbial action. If you bury it then microbs that require oxygen maynot be able ot break the fecies down and it will last long. But PLEASE pack out you toilet paper as it does not break down that readly.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BrianSnat:<BR>Another method that is gaining some supporters is simply to smear it on a large rock or boulder >snip< <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Oh great, I'll have to add this to the list of hazards of climbing...right under 'rockfall'.. icon_smile.gif<!--graemlin::(--><BR><BR>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<BR>Take everything you like seriously, except yourselves. - Rudyard Kipling (1865 - 1936)

Climbing in Yosemite requires you to pack it out. Poop in a bag drop in a pvc tube and seal and up up and away.

cheers

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When pooping in the woods I:

  • find a well off-trail, and at least 250 feet from any water source
  • scrape a shallow hole (4-6 inches deep) with a camping shovel
  • poop in the hole
  • use unbleached toilet paper
  • cover everything with the soil and leaf litter that came out of the hole

I also have a procedure for the same operation in desert, by the ocean, in jungle, and at the Vatican, but I'll save them for next week...our time is just about out for today... :(

 

nfa-jamie

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Jeremy is, for once^W^W as usual, right on. The proper technique depends on a lot of variables.

 

In arctic climates, waste takes approximately forever to break down. When on a kayaking trip in Iceland, we were instructed to go in the ocean, and to use no toilet paper. That was an interesting experience.

 

In tropical climates, waste will break down very quickly, and the main concern is to avoid contamination of water sources. A cathole will work very effectively.

 

In extremely arid zones, the waste should probably be left uncovered to dessicate as quickly as possible.

 

I quite honestly don't have any idea what is appropriate for swampy areas, as I have never done much hiking in them.

 

Just don't assume that the same technique is appropriate everywhere.

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