New Jersey's Forgoten Caches

[avroair]

I like having choices based on my current mood

 

Well put. I think our area offers a good variety. I have cached in other places have only found dirve-ups and drive-ups with a twist

 

Rifle Camp has 3-4 caches... Hilltop now has 7!!! Whose fault is that for over-saturation!!!

Hilltop now has 7!!! Whose fault is that for over-saturation!!!

 

3 of Hilltop's 7 are mine! Sorry!

[avroair]

The game would benefit greatly from higher quality locations and caches that were fewer in number.

 

How am I suppose to pad my numbers if everything was in higher quality locations and fewer!?!

People can lay them where they want, it is the thought that counts. I prefer the well-thought out ones, but I'll do any of them.

[Find Now, Log Later?]

... but I'll do any of them.

That's what 99.5% of geocachers say for the first year or so. But after the initial thrill of the game wears off, people either tend to become more selective, or they quit ... except for that .5% who truly "gotta get 'em all," no matter how far (one has to drive) or how lame. More power to them.

Edited June 7, 2004 by Bassoon Pilot

[+briansnat]

7 on the Hilltop. Wow, when did that happen? Last knew, there was 1 there.

 

Yes, I do believe the area is saturated by (mostly) "dash-and-grab" caches. Part of the reason is because so much "prime" territory is occupied by caches that most local geocachers found long ago. It is my opinion that caches should be placed primarily for the enjoyment of the local geocaching community, and that there is little reason for a cache to remain in place if, after the initial rush, only two or three people a year seek it.

 

I disagree with this. If the cache was a good cache when it was placed, its still a good cache. Just because it's only found a handful of times a year doesn't change that. That handful of people get to enjoy it. I still have Aye Carumba on my to do list because I hear it's a great cache hunt and I'm glad its still there waiting for me. I found the Gerbil cache 2 weeks ago and really enjoyed the hike, and that sucker is almost 4 years old. I'm glad it wasn't archived by the owner because the most of the "locals" already found it. It would have been my loss.

 

I generally only hunt caches a few times a month, so it takes me quite a while to get around to some caches. If the good ones were pulled after the initial rush, I'd miss out on a lot of excellent hunts.

Edited June 7, 2004 by briansnat

[+SERG312]

As a new geocacher part of the thrill was finding a cache that has been sitting out there for a long time. It was fun reading through all the old long entries. I enjoy finding the new caches but enjoy the older one's simply because they have been out there so long and have gone undetected by non players.

[+Team DEMP]

I was not at all surprised to observe how popular "Sixth Cents" (reborn) has become since it was dumbed-down to a "1/4 mile one-stop wonder."

 

Yes, I do believe the area is saturated by (mostly) "dash-and-grab" caches. Part of the reason is because so much "prime" territory is occupied by caches that most local geocachers found long ago. It is my opinion that caches should be placed primarily for the enjoyment of the local geocaching community, and that there is little reason for a cache to remain in place if, after the initial rush, only two or three people a year seek it.

 

Yes, new people discover the game on a regular basis. How does it affect their enjoyment of the game if the cache in an area they decide to visit is the original, 2nd, or 29th cache to have been placed in that area since the game began?

 

The game would benefit greatly from higher quality locations and caches that were fewer in number.

If Sixth Cents was a 3/3 or a multi it wouldn't matter to me.

 

I think the current Sixth Cents is popular because not only new folks, but old folks that found the other one can now access this one. All new caches in our area are popular. Also, we have such a tremendous abundance of caches that even with 200 finds, I hadn't had to venture out very far from my central point to get that much.

 

Look at Team Demp Not Found Caches and I think you'll see that I'm working my way out from my location. Sixth Cents Reborn is in the cluster at the very top of the bottom caches outside my "found" circle.

 

If you placed a more difficult cache in the center of my found circle, I think you'd have a lot of people attempt it over the 1st month or two. You might have more attempt it if it was a 1.5/1.5 but I think the number of cachers has grown, even since I started, that any cache will get hit hard when it is placed.

 

I don't agree that we need less caches, nor do I agree that if a cache is fine where it is, even though it doesn't get a lot of hits, that it should be archived. I can't get to all the worthwhile caches with the limited time I have, but if they stay around enough, hopefully I can attempt them.

[+briansnat]

Look at Team Demp Not Found Caches and I think you'll see that I'm working my way out from my location. Sixth Cents Reborn is in the cluster at the very top of the bottom caches outside my "found" circle.

 

heheheh, I'm gonna screw you up and place a bunch near your house, so you have to clear out that area again

[+Team DEMP]

... but I'll do any of them.

That's what 99.5% of geocachers say for the first year or so. But after the initial thrill of the game wears off, people either tend to become more selective, or they quit ... except for that .5% who truly "gotta get 'em all," no matter how far (one has to drive) or how lame. More power to them.

I'll do any of them. I guess I don't get why one is "lame" when another isn't. There are more enjoyable ones and less enjoyable ones, but they are all still caches that require me to find. Sure, if it is thrown on the side of the road, that would be lame, but we don't have those, or I haven't come across one.

 

And I have to say, if there's a .5, you HAVE to include yourself in that since, as far as I can recall, I haven't gotten to a cache that didn't have a BP already logged, though I didn't look thru logs in the Africa series in Harriman to see if you logged a find there yet.

[+Team DEMP]

heheheh, I'm gonna screw you up and place a bunch near your house, so you have to clear out that area again

That would make me extremely happy!!

 

Other then the CITO and 1 cache we did at the CITO event, I don't think I had any attempts in Harriman until this weekend. It's 20 driving miles from my house but there's so much that's still closer that I've done that I haven't gotten there.

 

I think we're truly in the best area to be a geocacher and we have you and all the other folks that have placed not just caches, but great caches and series to thank for it.

 

I need to get off my butt and place some of my own!! I even have two ammo boxes (however you want to pronounce them) I bought in NC I can use.

[+Harrald]

<<SNIP>>

 

Look at Team Demp Not Found Caches and I think you'll see that I'm working my way out from my location. Sixth Cents Reborn is in the cluster at the very top of the bottom caches outside my "found" circle.

 

<<SNIP>>

I know that map....Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[avroair]

I need to get off my butt and place some of my own!

 

How about a China or India loop in Harriman?

 

I haven't been to either of those two locations!

 

(But I am guessing with only two ammo cans, it would be better to do Mauritius and Taiwan)

 

[+The BeeGees]

7 on the Hilltop. Wow, when did that happen? Last knew, there was 1 there.

 

And that original cache was archieved long before the latest wave rolled through.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...57-c389f2dc74ad

[avroair]

And that original cache was archieved long before the latest wave rolled through

 

They logged it twice! No wonder they have 1160!

 

January 21, 2003 by K-TEAM (1160 found)

Nice cache,Thanks for putting it out and for bring me here.TNLN

K-TEAM of Winfield Missouri

[+Team DEMP]

They logged it twice! No wonder they have 1160!

Even if they logged every one 2 times, 580 is still impressive

Edited June 8, 2004 by Team DEMP

[+The BeeGees]

They logged it twice! No wonder they have 1160!

HEY !!!

I never noticed that before. I'll have to send them an email. what gives?

[Find Now, Log Later?]

Edited June 9, 2004 by Bassoon Pilot

[+briansnat]

Oh, no, no, no. So many caches that have sat out a long time don't even resemble their original state ... most often because of (a lack of) maintenance issues. Like those 4-star difficulty caches that, after a few finders, are no longer cleverly hidden but are sitting out in the open. Like the intermediate stages of multicaches that had been written on an object with a "Sharpie" that are no longer legible. Like the final stages of multicaches that are either missing or full of mud and water.

 

Yes, some are in bad shape, but a lot aren't. I've found some pretty old caches in excellent shape. The 4 year old Gerbil cache was fine. A 3 1/2 year old cache I found in Ohio was in perfect condition. I know Waterboy regularly visits his Multi State Multi cache to keep it in shape. I've been keeping an eye on Stone Living Room and it's in good shape and there are many more examples. If the cache is in poor shape, that should be addressed with the owner and if they are no longer interested, then it maybe it is time to archive it.

 

As I asked in an earlier post, what difference would it have made to you if the caches you had found were the 1st, 2nd, or 29th version of a cache in those locations? You would still have hiked the same areas.

 

So what? Them's the breaks. Another cache would invariably be placed in the area in short order.

 

That's OK if someone replaced the original with a new version. Chances are they won't, at least for the more remote caches. There are only a handful of people in northern NJ who place these kinds of caches.

 

Does your argument have merit for many of the caches out there? Sure. I guess I could archive a run of the mill cache like my Turkey On Rye and it wouldn't be a great loss the to geocaching community. Someone will likely replace it with an equally good cache in the vicinity. But if I were to archive a cache like my Butler Reservoir multi-cache, or if the Artful Dodger archived his Aye Carumba, or Waterboy, his Multi State Multi Cache, or Marty archived Melvins Mutiple Madness, I sincerely doubt a similar cache would appear in those areas and because caches like that are so few, that would be a loss to the local geocaching community.

Edited June 8, 2004 by briansnat

[mortonfox]

I was not at all surprised to observe how popular "Sixth Cents" (reborn) has become since it was dumbed-down to a "1/4 mile one-stop wonder."

That cache became quick enough to do at lunchtime. I don't know if that's the same reason for everyone else but that put it near the top of my list to visit.

[mortonfox]

I found the Gerbil cache 2 weeks ago and really enjoyed the hike, and that sucker is almost 4 years old. I'm glad it wasn't archived by the owner because the most of the "locals" already found it. It would have been my loss.

Indeed, when I went a bit further into Pennsylvania a few months ago, I found a cache (JQ001-Green Lane) that was placed before I started geocaching! That's pretty rare and there's a special thrill in visiting such a vintage cache.

[avroair]

As I asked in an earlier post, what difference would it have made to you if the caches you had found were the 1st, 2nd, or 29th version of a cache in those locations

 

The difference for some of the older venerable caches are the log histories. I find it interesting who found it, when they found it, what method they used to find it... their adventures etc. A new cache doesn't have this sort of attached history.

 

On the other hand, I do believe there are many caches placed with little thought. I found a cache in a Walmart parking lot. Doesn't this break geocaching guidelines for placing on private property? Since parking lots are not pubically owned.

 

On the other, other hand, I welcome micros placed along interstate highways at reststops since they seem to have a purpose.

 

what do i know anyways, I could spend all day arguing with myself

[Find Now, Log Later?]

Edited June 9, 2004 by Bassoon Pilot

[+briansnat]

Brian's Butler Reservoir would definitely be quickly replaced, because it is a scenic, easy hike. It would invariably be replaced, however, by a series of four or five caches rather than a single multicache. Great hikes don't seem to motivate the newer generation of geocachers as much as the number of potential "smilies" do. I have no doubt that similar replacement series would spring up in short order for every multicache you cited.

 

But then what's the point? If there is already a perfectly good cache there, in good shape, why not leave it? Why should I pull the Stone Living Room cache, only for someone to place a new one 10 feet away? Just so people who logged the original can go back to the same spot again to get another smiley? That's exactly what would happen and after 3 months and all the usual suspects made their visit, whats the difference between the new one and the one that had been there for 4 years? The only visits will be from newbies and vacationers in either case.

Edited June 8, 2004 by briansnat

[+Mopar]

Why should I pull the Stone Living Room cache, only for someone to place a new one 10 feet away? Just so people who logged the original can go back to the same spot again to get another smiley? That's exactly what would happen and after 3 months and all the usual suspects made their visit, whats the difference between the new one and the one that had been there for 4 years? The only visits will be from newbies and vacationers.

Sure would help all those 1000+ folks keep up the pace without traveling as far!

[+Team DEMP]

Brian's Butler Reservoir would definitely be quickly replaced, because it is a scenic, easy hike. It would invariably be replaced, however, by a series of four or five caches rather than a single multicache. Great hikes don't seem to motivate the newer generation of geocachers as much as the number of potential "smilies" do. I have no doubt that similar replacement series would spring up in short order for every multicache you cited.

I think the snippet I took from your prev post is sort of contradictory and I'm not sure if you have some point you are trying to make or just having fun in the forum.

 

Replacing an existing cache that is fine, with another cache in the same general location, would only benefit those that have found the original cache (such as yourself) and provide a means of getting additional finds.

 

Now, you say that the newer generation of geoacchers are after the "smilies", but I interpret your response to be that you are after the "smilies". Why else would you want a cache that you found replaced in the same area? I'd imagine so you could get another find (smilie).

 

To me, a multi-stage cache and a series of caches each which could be logged are different and in you're gonna have someone hike 5 miles, I'd rather be able to log/trade multiple times. I know if I had my kids with me, I wouldn't consider a 5 mile multi-stage cache as they wouldn't enjoy it.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but I can't seem to make heads or tails of what it is.

[avroair]

5 mile multi-stage cache

 

What is the point in that? Unless each stage was unique and had a puzzle or specific chalenge? (such as Blood & Guts). Or was pitched in the description as a tough adventure.

[Find Now, Log Later?]

Edited June 9, 2004 by Bassoon Pilot

[Find Now, Log Later?]

Edited June 9, 2004 by Bassoon Pilot

[avroair]

So the question is, would you consider taking your kids along on the same 5 mile hike if it involved 5 opportunities to log/trade/receive a "smiley?"

 

Yep. That would pump more dopamine into my reward circuit.

[avroair]

To get outdoors. To hike. To take advantage of an opportunity for a terrific workout.

 

I go hiking, exclusive from geocaching. My wife hates caching so we go hiking instead. That's how I found the Africa loop in Harriman. We hiked 9 miles that day, and I only found one cache... but it was worth it, the hike alone was great.

 

My disappointment rides with ill-placed 5 mile multis and ones that are not maintained properly.

[+Team DEMP]

Now, you say that the newer generation of geoacchers are after the "smilies", but I interpret your response to be that you are after the "smilies".

You need to work on your interpretation. I logged my last "smiley" back in mid-February. I've visited a few hundred caches since then.

I bet you still keep track, just not on the site. And you log your caches in the log. If it was just going out to hike, why even mark the cover or ist page of the log with your initials? It's the same as a smiley!

 

I know if I had my kids with me, I wouldn't consider a 5 mile multi-stage cache as they wouldn't enjoy it.

So the question is, would you consider taking your kids along on the same 5 mile hike if it involved 5 opportunities to log/trade/receive a "smiley?"

Absolutely! One of my daughters and I did Brian's Hiker Series in 1 day. If it was one "find" with only one chance for her to trade, she would have pushed me off a cliff!

[avroair]

f it was one "find" with only one chance for her to trade, she would have pushed me off a cliff! 

 

I hear ya!

 

Supersize that multi into 5 caches and I am game! Anything to keep the dopamine flowing! Unless of course you aren't addicted to those smiley's.

 

Hiking is hiking and caching is caching... if the two intermingle then even cooler... and if there is more than one reward, cooler still.

[+briansnat]

People do that all the time ... How many people who logged "Cauldrens of Courage" logged my original cache?

 

Actually Cauldrons and your cache were two completely different experiences. Also, being that Cauldrons is a multi cache, the finder has no idea it ends right next to the spot where your cache was until they get there. I can't speak to Sixth Cents because I haven't logged either.

 

I know I've put newer caches near the sites of my older ones, because I thought they were neat areas. I most cases the newer cache was an entirely different type of hunt. Rarely do I swap out a traditonal cache and stick a new, simiar cache nearby.

[Find Now, Log Later?]

Edited June 9, 2004 by Bassoon Pilot

[+briansnat]

Really? I suppose you mean because you actually found AD's cache.

 

When I did the multicache, (did I "choose wisely?") I walked the same route my cache used, practically step-for-step. And homeplate is farther from the pitcher's mound than the final cache of the multicache is from the former location of my earlier cache.

 

No, because one was a multi and one was a traditional. I "chose wisely" on Cauldrons and and took a completely different route than I did for your cache. One was a short walk from a nearby street (yours) and the other was few mile hike around the park (Cauldrons). Yes the final locations were very close, but its one of the few logical spots up there to hide a cache near the view.

[+Harrald]

<<SNIP>> How many people who logged "Cauldrens of Courage" logged my original cache? <<SNIP>>

Me for one. I enjoyed them both. Maybe I'm just odd though.

[+Team DEMP]

I really enjoyed all of those caches ... but face it, most geocachers are unwilling to put more than a minimal physical effort into seeking caches. They prefer to use the "drive-up window" and have caches handed to them.

Maybe you can qualify what you mean by "most geocachers".

 

Do you mean the large number of cachers with less then 25 or so finds or the ones with more then 100 finds or all cachers? I'd say from my experience that those with over 100 finds are doing all varieties of caches from simple to complex. I also think the folks participating in this thread are in the 100+ find category and from all those I've met, I don't think a drive by cache is top on anyone's list.

 

Since I've only personally met 1 with over 1000 finds, I'd say that for him, whether it was quick or a long hike wouldn't matter either.

 

So who exactly is targeting these drive by caches?

[+briansnat]

So who exactly is targeting these drive by caches?

 

I think its's Jonboy.

[avroair]

When I did the multicache, (did I "choose wisely?")

 

I can assure you my Cauldrons experience was way off the trail. I chose poorly.

 

As for six cents, the new cache is in the same place as the old cache. I enjoyed both, but I believe the old one was better... but also very hard.

 

How about being a secret agent for a day?!?

[+Team DEMP]

Add this one to the list !Spring 2002 - NY/NJ Geocachers Picnic Cache

It's already on my short list. I'm surprised it hasn't been hit in 6 months too.

I would have listed it, but it does have 25 some finds. Though none in a while. I guess that could be another category. Once popular caches, that are now lonely. I think a lot of mine would fall into that category. The BOLP series, Terrace Pond, Turkey on Rye and even Wildcat Ridge Hawkwatch. Also, the Artful Dodger's Splitrock Splendor is a great cache that doesn't get visited very often anymore.

I was considering going after this one this weekend... and this morning I get notified that GeoKender found it yesterday - 6 months to the day since it was last found. Maybe I'll look for another cache that hasn't been logged in a long time.

[+briansnat]

I was considering going after this one this weekend... and this morning I get notified that GeoKender found it yesterday - 6 months to the day since it was last found. Maybe I'll look for another cache that hasn't been logged in a long time.

 

Smokeys Wallow hasn't been found in almost a year. Fun hunt too.

[+Team DEMP]

Smokeys Wallow hasn't been found in almost a year. Fun hunt too.

That looks interesting and from the trail map it doesn't look like it's much off the trail though of course it could be deceiving.

 

There's a couple others on the other side of the Clinton Reservoir I haven't found either.

 

Guess I need to plan ahead and get the permit. Need to register online too for the NYNJTC which I haven't yet done. So my guess is, by the time everything comes... 4 people will log finds

[+briansnat]

That looks interesting and from the trail map it doesn't look like it's much off the trail though of course it could be deceiving.

 

There's a couple others on the other side of the Clinton Reservoir I haven't found either.

 

Guess I need to plan ahead and get the permit. Need to register online too for the NYNJTC which I haven't yet done. So my guess is, by the time everything comes... 4 people will log finds 

 

It's not that hard a walk. Unless you choose unwisely, where you find yourself swimming throuh a dense growth of mtn laurel. You can pick up the permit on the way at the office. Its open 'till noon on Sat. And you can even bag the other ones. Skully & Mulder's and Skibums. Both are pretty short walks. Phantasmorgia is a bit longer a walk, but not that difficult.

 

They've been sitting there a long time, so I'm sure there will be no rush to find them.

Edited June 11, 2004 by briansnat

[avroair]

Smokeys Wallow hasn't been found in almost a year. Fun hunt too.

 

Sounds like TeamDEMP is organizing a picnic event here for all of us to come along? That was an invitation right?

 

So my guess is, by the time everything comes... 4 people will log finds

 

Sounds like an invitation to me!

[+Team DEMP]

I just ordered by NYNTTC (family) membership and it says unless I misread that I need that to get the permit. So once that shows I can get the watershed permit.

 

I hadn't made it over to that area yet. Your virtual is near there too - so if I get skunked I can always log that

 

After work today I might head out to Oakland Overlook and Lake View and see if I can get one or hopefully both before it gets dark. Saturday is booked but Sunday is free and I want to head over to the 6 caches I have to still get on Garrett Mountain and Rifle Camp. And then the DNF I logged on your Flat Stuff on the 2nd stage needs to be "fixed" so I think that covers this weekend for me. That will help clean up my "found" circle - though I need to hit up/finish the remaining couple near your Bear Swamp cache and right over the border in Hillburn (yuck!) for the Davidson and Goat caches.

 

Though I did a bunch on the Palisades, there's 2 clusters (10-12 caches in total) on the Hudson at the Tallman and Blauvelt State parks.

[Find Now, Log Later?]

At last check there were still 3 Yellow Jeep Travel Bugs at "Highland Woods, Too."

 

What's taking you guys?

[+briansnat]

I just ordered by NYNTTC (family) membership and it says unless I misread that I need that to get the permit. So once that shows I can get the watershed permit.

 

Apparently you need a NYNTC membership card to get the permit via mail, but not if you go in person. I get mine at the Echo Lake Rd office every year and have never been asked to prove membership. Geokender also found the same thing. His application via mail was turned down because they wanted to see a copy of a NYNJTC (or other approved hiking club) membership card, but he received the permit no questions asked (well other than name, address and your car's license plate #) at the Echo Lake headquarters.

 

Still, you didn't waste your money with the TC membership. With the 10 pct discount at Campmor and Ramsey Outdoors, you'll pay for that membership in a shopping trip, or two. And now I can recruit you to maintain some trails, heheheh.

 

At last check there were still 3 Yellow Jeep Travel Bugs at "Highland Woods, Too."

 

What's taking you guys?

 

That one is too hard and far for me.

Edited June 11, 2004 by briansnat

[+Team DEMP]

Still, you didn't waste your money with the TC membership. With the 10 pct discount at Campmor and Ramsey Outdoors, you'll pay for that membership in a shopping trip, or two. And now I can recruit you to maintain some trails, heheheh.

Definitely not. I was going to do it anyway - and the Campmor / Ramsey discount is an added bonus.

 

Maybe next weekend I can get out there. Softball season ended so I have more time at nights for shorter jaunts and both days on the weekend.

[mortonfox]

So who exactly is targeting these drive by caches?

I wouldn't say that anyone is necessarily targeting them but drive by caches tend to be popular because almost anyone can fit them in a busy schedule, in a lunch hour or on the way to/from work.

 

There is one true drive-by cache that I know of. In Norfolk, VA there's a cache hidden in a tree at the correct height and facing the parking lot so that you can get it from your car. Then, of course, there was that time when I arrived at a roadside cache site while another team of cachers were there so they handed the cache to me through the window!

[+briansnat]

To update this list, Smokey's Wallow has had 2 recent finds after close to a year since the last one.

[+briansnat]

I'm gonna have to add Harry Dolphin's Hush Hush Sweet Charlotteburg to this list. Only three finds (including today) since it was placed in August.

 

It's a great one. Not a bad walk (when there is no snow) and the view is outstanding. It's a great companion for Skully & Mulder's Old Glory NJ Style. You can easily bag them both in a few hours.