Which Gpsr?

[aPeacefulWarrior]

Hello. I am new to Geocaching. I have found 3 caches so far without GPS and know that I can find more, however, I realize that I will eventually want/need a GPSr.

 

I know that any GPSr will work fine for geocaching, but I think that I will want to use it for more then just that. I am also into backpacking and stuff like that. It seems like using GPS would be very useful for things like marking my campsite, marking my destination, certain routes, etc. My question is... would the simple bottom of the line GPS units be able to handle things like that as well? I'm thinking about the Garmin Geko 201 or the Etrex Yellow(perhapes a higher Etrex).

 

But I was also thinking that it would be cool if my GPS unit could handle maps. Then I wouldn't have to carry(several of) them around. Looks like the Magellan SporTrek Map would be my best bet for this. Although I am confused about what this unit can actually do. It says that it has Map support(obvious by the name) and it even says in the discription that it has "full 3D topo support" or something along those lines. What does that mean? it doesn't look like you can view topo maps on it. And if you can, then why is there another version of this machine called the SporTrek TOPO?

 

Another side of me wants to stay simple and have a bare minimal GPSr. Small size and light weight is also a priority which makes me lean torward the Geko 201... although some sort of mapping capibility would be cool! Idunno! I'm confused! Thanks for any help.

[+New England n00b]

Actually, I plan on doing this very thing. I am using an Garmin eTrex Legend. It has 8 MB of memory, and I just bought the Mapsource United States TOPO maps for it. Those maps a 1:100k. You can get a state parks version in 1:24k scale.

 

The Legend is small, light and works wonderfully. If you have more money, you could get the Vista, which has 24 MB and an electronic compass. Personally, I like a real magnetic compass, and since the Legend does not have one, I carry a lensatic with me.

 

I love it, it works for me.

 

(BTW - next major hikes - the entire Wapack Trail (26 miles MA/NH) and then a portion of the Appalachian (5-6 days, whatever I can cover).

 

Good luck!

 

Also, if you go into the forums for GPS Units & Software, you will find many people have opinions that may help you.

Edited April 21, 2004 by New England n00b

[+SBPhishy]

I use a Meridian Gold, thought it may be a bit too big for backpacking.

 

The SporTrak Topo comes preloaded with Topo maps of the US. On the SporTrak Map, you can buy the Mapsend Topo software, and upload sections at a time. The problem is that the SporTrak map has 6 megs of storage space. While you can load a decent amount of Topo in that, if you travel anywhere far, you will have to reload another segment of map. The eTrex's are cool for backpacking. They will do maping as well, just like the SporTrak. The Legend is a mapping unit, as well as the Vista.

 

The best thing about the Meridian Gold is that it takes SD cards. You can essentially have unlimited space for storing huge sections of maps. You can even carry multiple SD cards and swap them out for different regions. You can't go wrong with any of these.

[aPeacefulWarrior]

Thanks for the info guys. The Etrex series looks good to me because they are small and light... they seem like they would be better for backpacking. However... it doesn't seem like the MapSource software is what I am looking for. 1:100k just isn't going to cut it. I wish that the 1:24k scale was not just limited to the state parks. And for that reason... maybe the Meridian SporTrak Map is more what I am looking for. I can't seem to find very much info on the Mapsend Topo software. What is it's scale? Thanks.

[+New England n00b]

GPS Units and Software forum would probably be your best bet with that question. Lotsa knowledgeable people. It's kinda like a Coca-Cola VS Pepsi between Garmin & Magellan, but people seem to behave fairly well.

 

That said, Magellan stinks! B)

 

(just kidding - I have never used one and couldn't tell you the diff betwixt a magellan and Magellan the explorer)

[aPeacefulWarrior]

Thank you, I will head over there now.

[+writer]

While you are doing your shopping, remember that using a GPSr is a bit different when hiking/backpacking than when caching. You don't leave it on all the time. Instead, it's probably best to turn it on occasionally to check your position, having it run in UTM and then checking your location against a topographic map with a UTM grid rule. That way, even if you do run out of batteries or find yourself in an area with poor reception because of trees or large rock masses bouncing the signals, you are left with a way of navigating. You can mark a number of intermediary waypoints, too, and more easily retrace your route as a series of straight legs. For each, get the GPSr heading you in the right direction, then shut it down, take a conventional bearing with a compass, and keep going.

[+zoltig]

Never venture out without your trusty map and compass, no matter which GPS you get. Maps and compasses don't break down (typically).

National Geographic puts out some of the best detailed maps on waterproof paper in my opinion, plus there NGTOPO program works well with water proof printing paper. Problem with NGTOPO, is it will not transfer mapping to your GPS. Planning a route and waypoints will transfer, but not the actual topographic info.

My 2 cents.

[aPeacefulWarrior]

Thanks for the help... I realized that it would probably be best to keep using my paper maps and compass... a broken gpsr won't help/save me. I will probably get a GPSr that is more simple and doesn't have mapping capability. The Garmin Geko 201 is looking really sweet to me now because it is so small and light.(using AAAs instead of AAs kinda sucks... but i dont think it will be that big of a deal... theres still the possibility of the Etrex Yellow) Anyway... I think that I will need to learn how to use my gps as a companion to my maps. Does anyone have any good info on doing this? Website? Thanks.

[+New England n00b]

More GPS crap than you can shake a stick at!

 

This link, incidentally, came from this geocaching.com web page: www.geocaching.com/links. There is some other juicy stuff in there as you progress through yopur GPS/geocaching addiction.

 

Good luck!

[aPeacefulWarrior]

Hehe. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

[+RobRee]

the small gecko and others are great because they are small, but..

 

i would never give up the mapping capability once i got it. i have a Magellan sporTrak pro, a Magellan meridian gold, and a Maggie 315. i love them all.

 

the sportrak goes everywhere with me. it has a flaw.. stress cracks. i can live with that knowing it has to be in a waterproof carrier around my rivers and lakes. i use them when fishing. i love the size and mapping capability.

 

the Maggie merigold goes with my dad. he is new to the hobby and he loves the merigold. same maps.. but with expandable memory. bigger, but i don't think it is too big.

 

the 315 goes to the kids. they are learning, and the maps seem to confuse them a little. i load waypoints in that serve as boundaries. i tell them to watch the cache point and their boundaries. backstops for us military guys.

 

 

go on a few cache runs with some local cachers and see what they carry. play around with some of their units (sounds dirty... lol.) you will change your mind a few times and come to a good educated conclusion.

 

learn orienteering and some basic map skills. map- terrain association is a great skill to have. learn some basic compass work too. i am thinking you may already have if you are finding caches without a gpsr. anyway... good luck and enjoy.

 

invest in a good charger and rechargeable batteries too.

[aPeacefulWarrior]

Yes, I do have map and compass skills already. Honestly... I think that I can do much of what a GPSr offers without one. This is why I want it to be small and light and simple. I don't need alot of features. From what I have seen of GPS maps... they really don't seem to be that good. I would much rather use a paper map and its probably a good idea to use one even if the GPS unit has maps... so then whats the point of the GPS having maps? Doesn't seem very readable anyway since you can only see a small section of it at a time and its monocrome, etc. (But then again... a GPSr with a simple basemap could be very cool when I don't have paper maps with me. hmm...)

 

Size, weight, and simplicity(and low price) are actually top priorities to me. So therefore it seems like something like a Geko 201 would be my best bet. Etrex is another possibility, but I would probably only go for that if I decide that I do want Mapping capability... then I would get the Etrex Legend. I think I like Garmin more then Magellan. I have tried them out at the store... and Garmins seemed to fit me better. I have yet to try a GPSr in the field... and that sounds like I good idea.

 

Thanks for the help.

[+Geofool]

I recommend this site, as it is a great source of GPS information.

[+New England n00b]

You know, that suggestion to go out into the field with people who already own a GPS is a really good one. perhaps you could post the request in the forum for your region? (Jeez, I keep trying to send people everywhere ).

 

I'd help you if I could, but you are on the wrong coast... Maybe there is a group you could go with, or a family... whatever you feel comfortable with. Perhaps tehre is an event coming soon near your area. Maybe your local geocaching organizaton can help, too?

 

It really is amazing the friendly resources this community has, in spite of the way some of the forums would appear. They still are the best place to ask honest questions and all that.

 

Good luck to you, aPeacefulWarrior!

[+Cache Viking]

I have a Garmin V along with the Mapsource United States TOPO and the National Parks West. I seldom leave on a trip without it. When I go places I download the City Select maps for where I am going and with the AuroRouting it gets me everywhere including finding certain types of Restaurants or even a Movie Theater. This summer I will be depending on it to get me around East Texas as well as getting me to some caches.

[+briansnat]

But I was also thinking that it would be cool if my GPS unit could handle maps. Then I wouldn't have to carry(several of) them around. Looks like the Magellan SporTrek Map would be my best bet for this. Although I am confused about what this unit can actually do. It says that it has Map support(obvious by the name) and it even says in the discription that it has "full 3D topo support" or something along those lines. What does that mean? it doesn't look like you can view topo maps on it. And if you can, then why is there another version of this machine called the SporTrek TOPO?

 

Another side of me wants to stay simple and have a bare minimal GPSr. Small size and light weight is also a priority which makes me lean torward the Geko 201... although some sort of mapping capibility would be cool! Idunno! I'm confused! Thanks for any help.

 

If you want something in between, look at the Garmin Legend, or Vista. They are larger than the Gecko and much smaller than the SporTrak They both have mapping capability, but the Vista has more memory and a magnetic compass. I find the size of the eTrex line to be perfect for backpacking.

[+Renegade Knight]

Here is my two cents.

 

You probably want a Quad Helix antanea. The eTrex line is the right size but has a patch which isn't quite as good under tree over.

 

That's going to rule out the eTrex line and I assume (but don't know for sure) the Geckos. It leaves the Map76, the Garmin 60's, and the GPS V. Of these the 60's will have the right size and battery life you want and a price that is going to make you choke.

 

In the Magellan world the Sport track series has the quad helix and a size roughly comparable to the 60's in Garmin. The non sport track Magellans are large but seem to have the quad helix antanea and the SD card for maps. I'm fuzzy on these magelland (Platnum and gold etc.) but they seem to have pretty good features.

[aPeacefulWarrior]

Hmmm.... I am not sure how worried I am about tree coverage. Well... as far as backpacking goes anyway. Alot of this will take place in either the desert or about the tree line. I would get good reception in these places no matter what GPSr I use, no? Caching might be a different story though since that will primarily take place around where I live which does have trees. Although the tree coverage does not seem like it would be that bad(its sort of an oaky/grassy area... not quite forresty/jungley)... hmmm Idunno. Thoughts? Is the patch antanea really something that needs to be worried about?

[+New England n00b]

Hmmm.... I am not sure how worried I am about tree coverage. Well... as far as backpacking goes anyway. Alot of this will take place in either the desert or about the tree line. I would get good reception in these places no matter what GPSr I use, no? Caching might be a different story though since that will primarily take place around where I live which does have trees. Although the tree coverage does not seem like it would be that bad(its sort of an oaky/grassy area... not quite forresty/jungley)... hmmm Idunno. Thoughts? Is the patch antanea really something that needs to be worried about?

In the desert or on the treeline - any Garmin or Magellan should be in satellite heaven - unless you get in a canyon - then you may run into a bizarre phenomenon that freaks out your GPSr. I've heard of people walking at "400 mph". Has to do with reflections of the sat. signal off the walls. Not too common, but disconcerting!

 

In my area, tree coverage can be pretty thick - pines, oak/maple - pretty much standard northern US deciduous forest. The worst I have seen my GPSr accuracy off (for an extended period) is 50'. Usually I will run 30' to 20' in average tree cover. More than sufficient for geocaching, especially after getting a feel for locating a typical hiding spot.

 

My Legend (patch antenna - not quad-helix) can't use an external antenna, and though it would be nice, I've not yet seen the need. It would be really nice in the car, more than anywhere else. I hate having to have the GPSr next to a window. If it isn't within a foot of a window, I start losing sats. Still, it wasn't really meant to be an automotive navigation GPS, so I can't complain.

 

As far as a quad-helix antenna vs patch, I've not had the opportunity to test one out. For what I do, my Legends patch antenna works just fine.

Edited April 23, 2004 by New England n00b

[+briansnat]

You probably want a Quad Helix antanea. The eTrex line is the right size but has a patch which isn't quite as good under tree over.

 

That's going to rule out the eTrex line and I assume (but don't know for sure) the Geckos. It leaves the Map76, the Garmin 60's, and the GPS V. Of these the 60's will have the right size and battery life you want and a price that is going to make you choke.

 

I haven't found this to be the case. My Vista gets fine reception under heavy tree cover. If it does lose a lock, it regains it almost instantly. Though the Map76 is a great unit, I think it would be a bit large for backpacking. I haven't held a 60 yet, so I can't speak to its size. The V is another great unit (and quite a value these days). It's fairly compact and boarderline for backpacking. Its has an odd shape because its designed to be both held in the hand, and placed on a dashboard.

[aPeacefulWarrior]

My Legend (patch antenna - not quad-helix) can't use an external antenna, and though it would be nice, I've not yet seen the need. It would be really nice in the car, more than anywhere else. I hate having to have the GPSr next to a window. If it isn't within a foot of a window, I start losing sats.  Still, it wasn't really meant to be an automotive navigation GPS, so I can't complain.

 

Thats not a problem for me... I don't drive!

 

At this point it looks like the eTrex Legend would be best for me... I took another look at the Topo Mapsource that is available... and now that I compair it to some paper topo maps that I have... it's really not that bad. I'd prefere 24/25/30k scale to 100k... but it has almost all the same trails and landmarks(sometimes more). Too bad it's somewhat expensive. But then again... getting paper topo maps of the whole country would be far more expensive. I think that using it as a companion to paper maps would be pretty cool. And if I decide to wonder outside my paper map's bounderies, I would still have a map.

 

Idunno if I would start using the mapping features right away... but I have a feeling that if I don't get them, I'll regret it! Looks like most of you would agree.

 

Part of me still wants the Geko 201... It looks so small and light and simple. It's also less expensive. But then... it's starting to also look like a toy. Some features seem like overkill and I would never use them,(maybe its not so simple afterall?) like the games. Also, the AAA's wont last as long and are not as available as AA's.

 

So. Do you think that the Etrex Legend is a wise choice for me? Oh... and I will try to meet with some other cachers to see what their GPSr's are like. Thanks for the tip.

[apogee]

Let me add another Legend success story on the issue of reception under cover. I turned my receiver on inside the house last night to upload a map route. This room has windows on two sides, but the closer one is covered by a 4' metal awning. Both windows had drawn shades and blinds. To my surprise, the unit still managed to acquire satellite lock! The three sources it found were at high elevation, although the house has a wooden floor and roof overhead. The signals were probably being reradiated from somewhere, but the Garmin still managed to identify my location with reasonable accuracy. [it does even better outdoors! ]

 

I just received my MetroGuide USA software and have been having fun trying it out. Today I'm taking a 16-waypoint route and will give it a good test. Even though the memory is limited to 8MB, I found that sufficient to load most of the SF Bay Area street maps.

[+Renegade Knight]

My experience in both tree cover and canyons is that the quads do better in tree cover and the patch better in canyons. The difference being noticable but not something to write home about, and not something to turn away from that GPS if it has the other features you want.

 

An external anteana is a better improvmetn than going with a quad or paths in the hand held.

[+briansnat]

So. Do you think that the Etrex Legend is a wise choice for me? 

 

The Legend is a good choice and go with the Mapsource Topo. It's not as up to date as I would like. Some highways in my area that have been there for 10 years aren't on it, but I've been happy with it overall.

[+StormCrow42]

The Legend is a good choice and go with the Mapsource Topo. It's not as up to date as I would like. Some highways in my area that have been there for 10 years aren't on it, but I've been happy with it overall.

The problem with roads on the topo maps is that the USGS topo maps the software is based on aren't updated very often. In my area, the 100k maps haven't been updated in 19 years and the 24k maps haven't been updated in 10.

 

You might think that it would be nice for Garmin to merge the topo and mapsource maps, but what do you do where new roads are that have changed the topo detail in unpredictable ways? (besides, then Garmin couldn't charge you for both )

[+GeoCyclist]

If you are considering the eTrex Legend I would strongly suggest spending a few extra bucks to get the eTrex Vista. It has an elctronic compass which has been very handy for caching. Additionally it has 24 MB of memory vs. the Legend's 8. I love my Vista. With the buttons on the side it is easy to use with one hand.

[aPeacefulWarrior]

Heh... just getting the Legend would really be stretching my budget. I don't think that I would like an electronic compass... as I am trying to remain pretty low tech. I really like real compasses. The extra memory is pretty suductive... but I think 8 megs is all I need. I am really into simplicity and not having things that I don't need... so just getting a GPSr in general is stretching that!

 

...Oh... and don't all the eTreks have their buttons on the sides? (besides the thumb stick)

Edited April 24, 2004 by aPeacefulWarrior

[+Team DaSH]

...Oh... and don't all the eTreks have their buttons on the sides? (besides the thumb stick)

Yes, the buttons are on the side. I'm a Legend user, and have had no reception problems that I can complain about. When you do decide what you want, make sure and shop around. Sometimes you can find great deals on the internet!

Good Luck!