Website Frustration

April 18, 2004

Well since all other threads relating to the gc.com website frustrations have been closed here's a new one to close.

I'm a premium member so I guess I have a little say in the website. The website being great as it is is terrible regarding the server it's on. Nothing but errors constantly, slower than a turtle with me standing on it. What's up with the site?

Sure I read the thread about new servers up as of 9:45pm PST last night, well that hasn't helped. I know I'm by far not the only one frustrated with this website since December.

The frustration leel keeps growing, not decreasing. I feel real bad for anyone that's on a 56k line!

So Jeremy if you feel like locking this thread as a means of censorship do for it, or let people discuss it and give us some real answers, please.

Thanks,

1.3k · April 18, 2004

The frustration leel keeps growing, not decreasing. I feel real bad for anyone that's on a 56k line!

So Jeremy if you feel like locking this thread as a means of censorship do for it, or let people discuss it and give us some real answers, please.

I'm on 56k (of couse, no such thing as 56k, it's capped a bit lower than that) and I haven't had any problems. It's almost as fast for me at home as it is at work on the T1.

I've been using this website for over a year now and I can only think of about 4 times that I've had any substantial problems. A few days after christmas was one of them.

I'm not sure what other answers they can give you - if you'll read their previous posts you'll see they have explained the problem fairly concisely. The popularity of the site is growing faster than they can keep up with. They are adding more machines and swapping over to a more efficiant codebase (which will allow for even more machines - which will spread out the demand so that it doesn't bog up on high traffic days). It should be completed by May 1st, 2004.

Just be patient - they're workin on it.

southdeltan

April 18, 2004

It just must be a westcoast things, all the caches out here are clogging up the system on our end! LOL

I'm patient, but it's just frustrating.

April 18, 2004

I've had some problems logging caches found yesterday, today too. I know Jeremy is working on this, so I'm trying to be patient. I hope the current server demands get proper support soon. The warmer weather is going to get more people out hunting caches, therefore putting even more demand on the site.

7.2k · April 18, 2004

I had to remind Sissy, "Make sure you copy the log before sending!"

Sure 'nuff, it returned an error. At least, she didn't have to retype the log.

April 18, 2004

Well, I have to say that the past two weekends have been very frustrating with continual server busy errors. Geocaching has now gotten popular enough that Groundspeak may have to invest in a real website. I don't know what they have there, but the lastest note about blowing the fuse on the powerstrip when they plugged in a server doesn't fill me with confidence that it's a commercial grade setup. I know this is a bootstrap operation but it certainly deserves a site in a power-protected location with plenty of bandwidth, plenty of compute power and plenty of disk capacity.

9.4k · April 18, 2004

I didn't say the new machines were up yet. We're just adding infrastructure so they will be faster.

Obviously by our messages you should have figured out by now that we're building out our infrastructure due to the increased server load on the web site.

9.4k · April 18, 2004

I know this is a bootstrap operation but it certainly deserves a site in a power-protected location with plenty of bandwidth, plenty of compute power and plenty of disk capacity.

If you think INTERNAP is a bootstrapped system, you should probably do your research.

1.2k · April 19, 2004

Its been painfully slow for me the last couple of days. But if its being worked on, I'll be patient.

Also getting a lot of this:

Server Error in '/' Application.

Server Too Busy

Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.Web.HttpException: Server Too Busy

Source Error:

An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below.

Stack Trace:

[HttpException (0x80004005): Server Too Busy]

System.Web.HttpRuntime.RejectRequestInternal(HttpWorkerRequest wr) +146

Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.1.4322.573; ASP.NET Version:1.1.4322.573

April 19, 2004

Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.1.4322.573; ASP.NET Version:1.1.4322.573

Well here's the problem "Microsoft!".

April 19, 2004

Well good grief! I thought traffic would have died down by Monday morning. But no. Here it is 7:45 a.m. and still getting multiple server errors.

April 19, 2004

Web site was very slow all weekend- Monday aftern0on....No errors. just don't log your finds until Monday or Tuesday when the servers aren't overloaded. Yes it is a pain, but alot less frustrating.

April 19, 2004

Web site was very slow all weekend- Monday aftern0on....No errors. just don't log your finds until Monday or Tuesday when the servers aren't overloaded. Yes it is a pain, but alot less frustrating.

It's a shame that we can't submint logs and finds via e-mail. You know, just e-mail the information in the correct format and it automatically updates the cache logs. Yeah, I know that I am dreaming, but it sure would be a nice feature......HINT...HINT..... :huh:

April 19, 2004

I really don't understand why Jeremy won't switch to a Linux or Unix platform, that would solve a lot of problems.

April 19, 2004

I really don't understand why Jeremy won't switch to a Linux or Unix platform, that would solve a lot of problems.

Uh, because that's a false statement.

The scalability problems we're facing on the site exist not because our chosen platform isn't capable, but because we've exhausted the physical resources of the hardware we're using. And that's happened because the site continues to grow significantly from month to month. We're now at a point at which 1 web server, no matter how large or what platform its running, can not accommodate the traffic of this site. In the last number of months we've been working to make the code changes necessary to allow the site to work in a "server-farm" environment. These changes are nearly complete and the hardware is here so you'll be seeing performance and reliability improvements over the next couple of weeks.

We know what the problems are, we know how to fix them, and they'll be resolved shortly.

:huh: Elias

April 19, 2004

hmmm, roughly translated: shut up and let the experts do their jobs.

April 20, 2004

hmmm, roughly translated: shut up and let the experts do their jobs.

My translator must be broken, mine says : Sit down, Shut up and Enjoy the ride. Keep all hands and arms inside the vehicle until it comes to a complete stop. Flash photography is not allowed at this time. Thanks for stopping by and we hope you enjoy the rest of your visit.

April 20, 2004

If you think INTERNAP is a bootstrapped system, you should probably do your research.

Jeremy, Here's the error message I get when trying to access this site:

Server Error in '/' Application.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unable to make the session state request to the session state server. Please ensure that the ASP.NET State service is started and that the client and server ports are the same. If the server is on a remote machine, please ensure that it accepts remote requests by checking the value of HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\aspnet_state\Parameters\AllowRemoteConnection.

3.8k · April 20, 2004

I keep getting the server busy error a lot, too.

Also, I find myself being re-directed to an adserv page.....

This has been going on for the last 2 or 3 days. Is it gonna get fixed?

A frustrated "premium" member.

April 20, 2004

hmmm, roughly translated: shut up and let the experts do their jobs.

My translator must be broken, mine says : Sit down, Shut up and Enjoy the ride. Keep all hands and arms inside the vehicle until it comes to a complete stop. Flash photography is not allowed at this time. Thanks for stopping by and we hope you enjoy the rest of your visit.

My translator shows me an image. It's almost a fist, but not quite...the middle digit is extended...

April 20, 2004

For what its worth, I don't usually get the server busy errors at all. At least 99.5% of my error messages occur when I try to go anywhere in the site from the main page, and its always a Micro$not .ASP error.

I'd vote Linux, but the hardware has to be there...

(Mmmmm... Beowulf rack.)

April 20, 2004

Maybe a premium member rate hike is in order, and I for one will be willing to pay it. Say an extra $10 to $20 annually and restrict web site usage to premium members during high traffic times.

April 20, 2004

Maybe a premium member rate hike is in order, and I for one will be willing to pay it. Say an extra $10 to $20 annually and restrict web site usage to premium members during high traffic times.

I hope you're not serious. I'd drop my membership instantly if something like that were to go into effect. Paying for it to be non-broke would alienate alot of users, IMO. Besides if they can't keep the current site running, what makes you think they could guarantee that the restricted website would not take a crap all the time too?

--RuffRidr

1.3k · April 20, 2004

Maybe a premium member rate hike is in order, and I for one will be willing to pay it. Say an extra $10 to $20 annually and restrict web site usage to premium members during high traffic times.

That would mean that non paying members would not be able to use the system at high load times. Only the paying members. That sounds a lot like a “Pay to Play” system. Do you really think that is fair.

“Geocaching is a free for all to play, except when too many people play you have to fork over some money or wait till the people who do are done with the system.”

Over to you Jeremy...

Edited April 20, 2004 by Keith Watson

April 20, 2004

I don't think this is really a matter of TPTB not being able to keep the site running, but rather it's the result of the incredibly rapid growth of our sport. Repeatedly Jeremy and Elias have indicated that they are working on a "server-farm" environment to get things moving faster again. Change takes time! We just have to be patient...... or slow down on recruiting new geocachers!!!

April 20, 2004

That would mean that non paying members would not be able to use the system at high load times. Only the paying members. That sounds a lot like a “Pay to Play” system. Do you really think that is fair.

“Geocaching is a free for all to play, except when too many people play you have to fork over some money or wait till the people who do are done with the system.”

Over to you Jeremy...

First off this whole issue will be a moot point when they get the new servers online but I do think that this approach is fair. They already do it at some amusement parks. You can buy a "premium" ticket that lets you go to the front of the line on the more popular rides for a couple of extra bucks. Not a lot different from this system except if you don't buy your "premium" ticket your regular ticket is free!

April 20, 2004

I agree that during high load times people that are paying members should be afforded some advantage.

1.3k · April 21, 2004

This is a little off topic, but this system was meant to be free for all from the beginning. I have no problem with advertising, as it is already there. But forcing members to pay would be against what Jeremy set out to create in the beginning. Comparing this to an amusement park would not exactly be fair. The front of the line service you are referring to is not an open ticket to bud in front of every one else that didn’t pay the extra.

I would bet anyone who is for “Pay for Play” would be the first to complain if they weren’t a paying member. And if the extra access privileges, you would find the current power users would pay it, if they already aren’t, and the problem would still exist.

I am quite sure that given time the system will improve. I can wait.

April 21, 2004

Comparing this to an amusement park would not exactly be fair. The front of the line service you are referring to is not an open ticket to bud in front of every one else that didn’t pay the extra.

Actually yes it is. They have a separate line that bypasses all of the "normal" ticket holders. The normal ticket holders have to go through all of the corral type things to get on the ride but the line for the premium ticket holders is much shorter and a staight shot to the same entrance.

April 21, 2004

I have been caching for less than a month and the lag with error messages I get on the weekends is becoming annyoying. I placed a cache on a Sunday but couldn't submit the cache till Monday afternoon because of the error messages.

April 21, 2004

I hope you're not serious. I'd drop my membership instantly if something like that were to go into effect. Paying for it to be non-broke would alienate alot of users, IMO. Besides if they can't keep the current site running, what makes you think they could guarantee that the restricted website would not take a crap all the time too?

--RuffRid

Where do you think they get the money to buy hardware for up grades? Some other web sites that are also free have restricted hours during high traffic usage for paying members. So a few people drop their membership due to cost rises will be more than made up for in additional membership sign ups for premium services. Where else in this world have you had so much fun for a measly 30 bucks a year? If you are worried about $10 to $20 more a year, drop your cable TV service, get out and cache more.

April 21, 2004

If you think INTERNAP is a bootstrapped system, you should probably do your research.

Jeremy, Here's the error message I get when trying to access this site:

Server Error in '/' Application.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unable to make the session state request to the session state server. Please ensure that the ASP.NET State service is started and that the client and server ports are the same. If the server is on a remote machine, please ensure that it accepts remote requests by checking the value of HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\aspnet_state\Parameters\AllowRemoteConnection.

the problem is that the dot net server is unable to create session state variables (a kin to out of memory, but not exactly because the server OS is a little smarter on memory management)

Ther are so many users that the server cannot create anymore sessions. The answer (and I am sure Jeremy is working on it) it to replicate the server. Dot net application have the ability to correctly select a server with a lighter load to create session states on and the process is invisible to the users.

Just a thought Jeremy, you may want to turn debugging off in global.asx so that the dot net errors are not displyed.

And I want to thank the maintainers for doing such a good job on geocaching.com.

3.8k · April 21, 2004

While the game is free for all to play, I would have no problem shelling out a few more bucks if it wold help clear up the current problems.

And, there should be some sort of "Premium Time" for the paying members if the rates were to go up. Say, between 1900 and 2300, Pacific Time.

Players who don't want to pay can still play, just like most of us did when we started. If they don't get to use the site at all hours, well, that's the way it goes.

It is just like the special tickets at the big amusement parks. If you wanna play when you wanna play, you gotta pay.

2.6k · April 21, 2004

And, there should be some sort of "Premium Time" for the paying members if the rates were to go up. Say, between 1900 and 2300, Pacific Time.

Ummm...that 'premium' time would be between 0500 and 0900 for me. That's not much money's worth, I guess.

Edited April 21, 2004 by Divine

April 21, 2004

Geocaching Announcements

Jeremy - THANKS!

April 21, 2004

Where do you think they get the money to buy hardware for up grades? Some other web sites that are also free have restricted hours during high traffic usage for paying members. So a few people drop their membership due to cost rises will be more than made up for in additional membership sign ups for premium services. Where else in this world have you had so much fun for a measly 30 bucks a year? If you are worried about $10 to $20 more a year, drop your cable TV service, get out and cache more.

Look, I don't have a problem with paying to use this site. I fully understand that hardware upgrades need to take place. That has to be paid for with Premium Membership fees. If the price of those need to go up, so be it. What I find insane is that some of you are willing to pay more money to get a working product. Isn't this why I already shelled out $30? If you ordered a new 60cs GPS off of the internet and they took your money and said they are busy and we can't get your GPS to you until 6 months from now, but if you spend an extra $100 we will send it to you right away, would you?

--RuffRidr

1.4k · April 21, 2004

<SNIP>> If you ordered a new 60cs GPS off of the internet and they took your money and said they are busy and we can't get your GPS to you until 6 months from now, but if you spend an extra $100 we will send it to you right away, would you?

--RuffRidr

Sure I would. Especially if I had only paid $30 for a $130 product. Now if I asked for a free sample and it didn’t arrive for a few weeks I wouldn't complain about it.

April 21, 2004

<SNIP>> If you ordered a new 60cs GPS off of the internet and they took your money and said they are busy and we can't get your GPS to you until 6 months from now, but if you spend an extra $100 we will send it to you right away, would you?

--RuffRidr

Sure I would. Especially if I had only paid $30 for a $130 product. Now if I asked for a free sample and it didn’t arrive for a few weeks I wouldn't complain about it.

[Edited to keep warn level down] Well that is obvious. I'm talking about paying full price for the GPS and then getting asked to pay 20%-30% more to get that product in a timely manner. That is exactly what some people are proposing in this thread.

--RuffRidr

Edited April 21, 2004 by RuffRidr

1.3k · April 21, 2004

While the game is free for all to play, I would have no problem shelling out a few more bucks if it wold help clear up the current problems.

And, there should be some sort of "Premium Time" for the paying members if the rates were to go up. Say, between 1900 and 2300, Pacific Time.

Players who don't want to pay can still play, just like most of us did when we started. If they don't get to use the site at all hours, well, that's the way it goes.

It is just like the special tickets at the big amusement parks. If you wanna play when you wanna play, you gotta pay.

First of all, front of the line services in amusement parks are not exactly what you make them out to be. If this were to be adapted to gc.com, yes paying members would have better access, but you would only be able to look at one cache, log out, log in look at another cache, log out, log in...

As for picking a premium time, the internet runs in multiple time zones, not just pacific.

So what if other site has restrictions on none paying members. Amusement parks have front of the line service. Who cares. geocaching.com was built on the premise that geocaching would be “Free For All”. Basic service should always be free, all the time.

Edited April 21, 2004 by Keith Watson

1.4k · April 21, 2004

<<SNIP>>
I'm talking about paying full price for the GPS and then getting asked to pay 20%-30% more to get that product in a timely manner. That is exactly what some people are proposing in this thread.

--RuffRidr

But you are assuming that $30 is the most that should be paid for a premium membership. I put forth that $30 is a bargain.

Of course I wouldn’t pay more than what I feel it’s worth. You seem to feel that $30 a year is a fair price and paying more isn’t a good value. I feel that I get much more than $30 dollars worth of services (and enjoyment) from GC.com

I’m not trying to sway your ideals, I’m just pointing out there opinions other than yours that are just as valid.

April 21, 2004

If you ordered a new 60cs GPS off of the internet and they took your money and said they are busy and we can't get your GPS to you until 6 months from now, but if you spend an extra $100 we will send it to you right away, would you?

Happens all the time:

"Thanks for your order.

If you choose FREE shipping so you will receive your item in 7-10 days.

If you choose Premium shipping for an additional $10 you will receive your item in 2-3 days.

If you choose Premier shipping for an extra $20 you will receive your item tomorrow."

If you dont pay extra, you'll still get your item. If having your item sooner is of value to you, that option is available.

April 21, 2004

Happens all the time:

"Thanks for your order.

If you choose FREE shipping so you will receive your item in 7-10 days.

If you choose Premium shipping for an additional $10 you will receive your item in 2-3 days.

If you choose Premier shipping for an extra $20 you will receive your item tomorrow."

If you dont pay extra, you'll still get your item. If having your item sooner is of value to you, that option is available.

That is very true.

But I think some people would make the point that they are paying extra and getting their item at the same time as people that are choosing free shipping.

Would you suggest that they should stop paying for the upgraded shipping and choose the free route instead and still get the same shipping time?

9.4k · April 21, 2004

It's a nice mental exercise, but there are no plans to create a premium door for subscribers. There may be a lot of new features that are only accessable to premium members, but we'll continue to provide access to basic caching functionality for non-paying members.

The idea is that the site should runs fast, no matter who is viewing it. This is just a matter of time and resources to accomplish this. We're well on our way.

Edited April 21, 2004 by Jeremy

April 21, 2004

Hey, Firehouse16, perhaps all the people from your Sycamore Canyon and Sushi event were trying to log their finds -

maybe YOU are entirely responsible for the slow-down this weekend....

"Logger may want to do some mental maintenance and have a hot sake"

Edited April 22, 2004 by Scienceteacher&Fam

9.4k · April 21, 2004

I missed an event with Sushi? Crap. :mad:

April 22, 2004

I'm glad you know what is truly important Jeremy! Bring on the Sushi! :mad:

April 22, 2004

Also, thanks for all your hard work getting everything up and going. THe server farm sounds like it will solve most or all :mad: the problems! Cheers for the hard workers!

April 30, 2004

... What I find insane is that some of you are willing to pay more money to get a working product. Isn't this why I already shelled out $30? If you ordered a new 60cs GPS off of the internet and they took your money and said they are busy and we can't get your GPS to you until 6 months from now, but if you spend an extra $100 we will send it to you right away, would you?
--RuffRidr

Where do you think they get the money to buy hardware for up grades? Some other web sites that are also free have restricted hours during high traffic usage for paying members. So a few people drop their membership due to cost rises will be more than made up for in additional membership sign ups for premium services. Where else in this world have you had so much fun for a measly 30 bucks a year? If you are worried about $10 to $20 more a year, drop your cable TV service, get out and cache more.

You know, this sounds WAY to much like the controversy surrounding the upcoming construction of our city's first toll roads ... My area is growing so fast that the slow gears of government can't slap down the hot-top and concrete fast enough. People are screaming so loud that all TPTB can do is say, "You want roads and you want them NOW? OK, we'll build 'em NOW, and then we'll CHARGE you to drive on them, cuz the money for them ain't gonna come from the state for 5 years or more." I don't like it, but when the dang toll roads come, I'll probably be driving them.

We have to give Groundspeak some time to catch up and catch a breath. I'm looking forward to the server farm. I will put up with some frustration for the chance to continue geocaching, and to do it with all the slick new gadgets and gizmos I have.

Keep on truckin', Jeremy et al, I'm waiting with a SMILE on MY face!

Website Frustration

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