Found Broken-is It A Find Or A Dnf?

[+Rocky Road and Annie]

I've found 2 broken but serviceable BMs--FZ1197 and GA1396--one logged as a Did Not Find and the other I logged as a Found. Which is correct and why?? Thanks for indulging a forgetful old fart because I'm sure this is an old thread!!

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

I think you could have logged FZ1197 as destroyed, since the reference mark and description verify that the "disk" is missing.

 

As to GA1396 I think that would be logged as 'did not find' and with verification of the location it would be considered destroyed. This mark was an elevation mark so any change would alter it's value/condition.

 

Hope this answers your questions.

 

John

[+Rich in NEPA]

From Deb Brown's earlier post:

 

Good vs. Poor condition codes can be somewhat of a dilemma because there's some judgement call involved with some of them. If you find a station that has NGS control on it and the condition seems to be questionable then send me a photo via email and we'll work together to determine it's code. I hope I haven't made this confusing. If a setting is stable and the stamping is good enough to identify the station by name but the disk face is marked up I'd call it GOOD. If a disk is still in it's setting but the setting removed it's destroyed. If a disk is gone but the shank remains it's technically destroyed BUT the position might still be usable. I'm sure some of those are listed as destroyed in the database and if you find any let me know because I'd like to change that code to POOR and add an explanation in the text.

In this case I believe it would be a good idea to send an e-mail to Deb Brown for a determination and include all the evidence (photos and description) found at the station site. Since it's a tri-station and at least one reference mark is still intact, there is a good chance that FZ1197 is still quite usable. I log these as Found in Poor Condition on GC.com because the station can be positively identified even without the station disk.

 

The trouble with GA1396, however, is that it is a vertical control with a scaled location and there's no way to be absolutely certain that you have positively identified the station (in spite of how certain you yourself may feel). Since there isn't adequate proof that the drill hole you found is from GA1396, NGS will most likely declare it as Not Found. This has been my experience so far, and I always log them as such.

 

Cheers ...

Edited April 14, 2004 by Rich in NEPA

[boundsgoer]

I would NOT log FZ1197 as destroyed. According to the datasheet, there is an underground mark in place. A person could use the underground mark to reset the surface mark.

 

If I was to log this one on the NGS site, I would note it as "Poor, Requires Maintenance" with a note on what was found.

 

As a surveyor looking for survey control in the area, I would need to make the determination as to whether what was remaining was "good enough" for my purposes.

 

As far as GA1396, I concur with Rich in NEPA. Since you cannot prove that what you found is the bench mark, you cannot say it is destroyed.

[+Oneyedjack]

OK, I am new around here so take it easy on me. Does Deb Brown monitor Geocaching.com and use information submitted here for official reporting? I understand that the benchmarks found destroyed need detailed information fill out on the NGS site, do the others? Or just simply log your find with a photo and call it good?

[+GeckoGeek]

Does Deb Brown monitor Geocaching.com

She does visit.

 

and use information submitted here for official reporting?

No

 

  I understand that the benchmarks found destroyed need detailed information fill out on the NGS site, do the others?  Or just simply log your find with a photo and call it good?

 

It depends on what you want to do. If you just want to log to Geocaching, that's fine. If you want to submit an official report to NGS then you follow NGS rules.

 

To log a mark as destroyed with NGS, it depends on if it's a "mark" such as a disk or a landmark such as a building.

 

For buildings, simply take a photo and send it to Deb at NGS. For a disk, you must find the disk, but in a destroyed condition - meaning that it's no longer in it's proper position. Again, take a photo and send to Deb at NGS. Details can be found at the main benchmark page on Geocaching.

[+Oneyedjack]

For a disk, you must find the disk, but in a destroyed condition - meaning that it's no longer in it's proper position. Again, take a photo and send to Deb at NGS. Details can be found at the main benchmark page on Geocaching.

 

I did find one the other day that the top of the concrete monument was broken off with the Benchmark still attached. I have not logged it yet on GC or NGS sites, yet. What is the correct thing to do with the broken monument and benchmark after logging and reporting it? Just leave it, send it to NGS......................??

[+GeckoGeek]

I did find one the other day that the top of the concrete monument was broken off with the Benchmark still attached. I have not logged it yet on GC or NGS sites, yet. What is the correct thing to do with the broken monument and benchmark after logging and reporting it? Just leave it, send it to NGS......................??

If I'm understanding your correctly, you've found the top broken off and the disk is still planted on the broken off piece. As such, the disk no longer marks a fixed position. With that understanding, the mark is clearly "destroyed".

 

To log with NGS: Send a photo that clearly shows the disk's markings. Send it along with the PID and description to Deb.Brown@noaa.gov.

 

To log with Geocahing, just log it like you would a normal cache. Most would say it's "destroyed" for geocaching purposes. Other's might say that since it's still a findable object, to log it as a find.

[+Oneyedjack]

If I'm understanding your correctly, you've found the top broken off and the disk is still planted on the broken off piece. As such, the disk no longer marks a fixed position. With that understanding, the mark is clearly "destroyed".

 

Thanks! I feel like a dummy, after I posted here I read the FAQ's for Benchmark hunting. I guess I somehow missed reading that entire page, it was very helpful, Thanks again!

[+SixDogTeam]

No. It's simple. If you find it, its a find. If you don't find it, it's a did not find. If you find that it's NOT there, it's destroyed. Period.

[+GeckoGeek]

If you find that it's NOT there, it's destroyed. Period.

Depends.

 

If we're talking about a disk, you can't log destroyed that way with NGS. For a disk, you have to find it and find that it's not in it's proper position. If we're talking about a landmark, then you need a photo to report it to NGS as destroyed.

 

If we're talking logging with Geocaching then - whatever. But I'd still caution against assuming destroyed just because you can't find it and you consider yourself too good a searcher to have it hide from you.