Traveling Caches, Why Are They Not Allowed?

April 12, 2004

What are the reasons which make travelling caches banned?

April 12, 2004

Every area needs a few travelling caches. They are fun and breath a little life into the routine of the game, especially in urban area's.

April 12, 2004

My thoughts exactly :rolleyes:

Just let'em be!

7.2k · April 12, 2004

What are the reasons which make travelling caches banned?

Because Jeremy said so...

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...50entry603201

April 12, 2004

Jeremy wrote:

"If you don't like it, create your own moving caches web site and get folks to be irresponsible there. Some topics are not decided by committee."

Thank you, that tells us a lot. :rolleyes:

April 12, 2004

What is a traveling cache anyway?

7.2k · April 12, 2004

What is a traveling cache anyway?

In general, they are caches that move from spot to spot. They don't have a set home.

The ones I've heard about ask the finder to move the cache to another spot and post the new coords in their log. Because the cache is in a new spot, decorum allows previous finders, but not last finder obviously, to hunt and log it again.

What I get out of it is it's a little bit of a different game in that there can be a little bit of a competition to be the one to find it or to hide it in interesting ways knowing that many people already know what it looks like.

Some problems with moving caches are some folks will complain that it's gone before they get there, folks hunt too aggresively for a missing cache and destroy the area, and could possiblity be illegally placed. All of these issues could easily be addressed, but TPTB don't want that type of game here.

If you're wanting to play with moving caches I suggest TravelerTags.com. It's geared towards tracking moving things.

Hope this helps.

38.2k · April 12, 2004

They are not allowed because once they are initally placed, the admins have no control over their subsequent placement. People can put them in national parks, next to RR tracks and other places where caches are banned, or a poor idea.

Oh, and its not true that they aren't allowed. They just aren't allowed HERE. You can place all the moving caches you want and list them wherever else you desire.

Edited April 12, 2004 by briansnat

2.7k · April 12, 2004

They are not allowed because once they are initally placed, the admins have no control over their placement. People can place them in national parks, next to RR tracks and other places where caches are banned, or a poor idea.

You mean the girls locker room at the YMCA is not allowed?

(CYA: It was a joke, people. Put down your torches & pitchforks! :rolleyes: )

Edited April 12, 2004 by New England n00b

April 12, 2004

I have no real desire to find a traveling cache . . . so, it doesn't bother me.

Happy caching and stuff! :rolleyes:

1.6k · April 12, 2004

I think a major thing that Jeremy had mentioned when travelling caches were banned is that, there's no way to know exactly where a cache is or who has it at any given time. I think he did however say that if you were willing to put together a very expensive gps tracking system so people could know exactly where it is, then you might be able to list one, but other wise no. But don't quote me on tat, cuase I'm not quite sure about that.

But for a moving cache to work at all, there has to be a way to know precisely where it is at any given time...

3.1k · April 12, 2004

We've had a couple of traveling caches move through our area and it was fun while it lasted. I also chased a couple of traveling caches that had been moved a couple of days before I went after it with no mention of it on the page. So that part is frustrating.

Hand around, one will show up by you eventually.

April 12, 2004

There are approved travelling caches out there.

38.2k · April 12, 2004

There are approved travelling caches out there.

Grandfathered. You will not get one approved today.

3.1k · April 12, 2004

There are approved travelling caches out there.

Grandfathered. You will not get one approved today.

Dude I'm totally a grandfather. Great, I'm submitting one today :rolleyes:

April 12, 2004

Wow....traveling caches. Thanks for the explanation, CoyoteRed.

What do you do when several people go to where the traveling cache should be according to the latest log, only to find out that another person already snagged it and hadn't logged the new co-ordinates yet? I think I would be pretty mad to search and search for a cache only to find out later that it was still in the backseat of some guys car that took several days to hide it and to post the new co-ords. Does that happen alot?

I have to agree that since the placement of the cache each time it is relocated can't be approved, it might cause trouble at some point by someone placing it where it shouldn't be. One major slip-up by some dingdong placing a cache in the wrong spot will just be another blemish on record for geocaching.

I'm amazed at how many times I have seen people say they don't want to see anymore changes to the game or restrictions placed, yet they are wanting to change it all the time. Aren't there enough different versions of caches already?

1.6k · April 12, 2004

What do you do when several people go to where the traveling cache should be according to the latest log, only to find out that another person already snagged it and hadn't logged the new co-ordinates yet? I think I would be pretty mad to search and search for a cache only to find out later that it was still in the backseat of some guys car that took several days to hide it and to post the new co-ords. Does that happen alot?

I think standard procedure is to leave a rock cairn or some sort of marking at the place to show that it's gone...

2.1k · April 12, 2004

But for a moving cache to work at all, there has to be a way to know precisely where it is at any given time...

Right....like TBs...

:rolleyes:

The only difference between a TB and a moving cache is that the TBs put $4-6 (minus production cost) in Groundspeak's pocket.

If you wanted a moving cache on GC.com, you could superglue a TB tag to it and have people leave the offset from the next closest cache (where they "drop" it online) in a note on the TB page.

2.1k · April 12, 2004

I think standard procedure is to leave a rock cairn or some sort of marking at the place to show that it's gone...

Most of the good travelling caches use a biodegradable marking tape to note that the cache has moved on. The product page I linked to says it lasts for about 6-24 months, which would easily be more than enough time for everyone to see that the cache has been grabbed (either in person at the tape or online where it is listed).

When we had a recent series of one-time caches, the finders were very good about letting the hider know to mark the webpage as "found" within hours of their find, so there were few who searched caches already taken.

April 12, 2004

create your own moving caches web site

Um, good idea! Anyone got some webspace to dedicate to this task?

Anyone got some time to aid in coding it? (Ala' the GNU projects potentially where multiple people contribute?)

Otherwise, the grandfathered travelling caches are GREAT. The one around here is one of my favorite caches, based on a really good book of hiking preserves in the area written by a naturalist.

The biodegradable tape idea is better than the ol' stick "X" or rock cairn.

Since all the regulars have already found it, there's no rush to find like other caches so rarely a conflict. As soon as someone finds it they post it to the page so there's never confusion.

But I can see on GC.com, users would expect the same level of discrimination/quality checking as permanently fixed caches, and that can't be assured on travelling.

Enjoy,

Randy

April 12, 2004

Hmmm....using tape to show that it is already gone is a nice gesture. But take in consideration the gas and time it took to go out there just to find out the guy before you left the tape but hasn't logged the new location co-ords yet. Doesn't sound like very much fun to me. In a perfect geocaching world, sure, you might have people that log the new co-ords within a couple hours but then you will almost surely run across the guy that isn't that fast about it.

You guys keep your traveling caches, leave the rest to me......lol

2k · April 12, 2004

Hmmm....using tape to show that it is already gone is a nice gesture. But take in consideration the gas and time it took to go out there just to find out the guy before you left the tape but hasn't logged the new location co-ords yet. Doesn't sound like very much fun to me. In a perfect geocaching world, sure, you might have people that log the new co-ords within a couple hours but then you will almost surely run across the guy that isn't that fast about it.
You guys keep your traveling caches, leave the rest to me......lol

Using gas is a chance you take when hunting the elusive traveling cache. I've been skunked twice on stop and go go go. To me that's part of the fun, not knowing if you will be first there.

If it dosen't sound like fun, don't do it.

24.7k · April 12, 2004

All problems with a Moving Cache can be solved to a reasonable degree. Some solutions have been implemented.

Known Problems and solutions.

1) They move and the new location is not reviewed. Solution; require a change in coordinates to require a new approval. This has been implemented though probably not for moving caches.

2) They require ongoing approver involvement. Solution; don't require approver invovlment, get more approvers, live with it, or refuse to offer the service.

3) It's gone by the time someone else goes to find it. Solution; Use the rule of 3. 3 natural objects in an unatural configuration in a visible spot. 3 sticks leaning on a tree trunk. Three pennies in an urban setting, etc. Log the find ASAP. (This solution evolved from a GPS game I just read about and I like it)

That's about it for special problems unique to moving caches.

The bottom line though is that GC.com doesn't choose to list moving caches. My understanding is that Navicache does, Opencaching will, and Terracachers will support all sites regardless.

Edited April 12, 2004 by Renegade Knight

April 12, 2004

create your own moving caches web site

Um, good idea! Anyone got some webspace to dedicate to this task?

I do but like rusty_tlc said, if it doesn't sound like fun, don't do it. So I won't. I thought I made that clear when I said to keep your traveling caches and leave the rest to me. :rolleyes:

Anyway, maybe you could buy your own website just for traveling caches?

Alternative Geocaching domain and hosting service up for auction on eBay

6.4k · April 12, 2004

Anyway, maybe you could buy your own website just for traveling caches?
Alternative Geocaching domain and hosting service up for auction on eBay

OMG! That link was the funniest thing I've seen in ages!

I take my hat off to the current domain owner for coming up with this idea. He voluntarily got people to build a database full of the personal info of people interested in geocaching, then sells it to the highest bidder just a few months later! I'm sure it's got to be worth a few dollars to someone who wants to target outdoor techie types.

I guess he's too busy working this deal, or this one.

Edited April 12, 2004 by Mopar

April 12, 2004

Embarrassing thing is, he's from my state. Actually about 60 miles away.

April 12, 2004

Ok...so if traveling caches aren't allowed to be posted here, why are they?

April 12, 2004

So are some people truly miffed if they aren't guaranteed a logged "Find" on every attempt? Is gas and time really wasted otherwise?

As for the approvers having control over moving cache locations. Let's face it, since when have approvers been able to catch anything more than the obvious location problems of ANY type of cache. Basically ALL but very few approvals have to be based on TRUST that the cache placer has read and is following this sites rules.

Perhaps traveling caches should be "members only", this way you could at least be sure that those playing are some what commited to the game.

April 12, 2004

So are some people truly miffed if they aren't guaranteed a logged "Find" on every attempt? Is gas and time really wasted otherwise?

I guess it would depend on whether you drove 5 miles to get the cache or 55 miles to get it.

1.3k · April 12, 2004

Ok...so if traveling caches aren't allowed to be posted here, why are they?

Do you mean why are there some travelling caches currently listed on gc.com? That's because they were "grandfathered" in. Those caches existed before the rule was put in place so they were allowed to remain on the website.

Perhaps traveling caches should be "members only", this way you could at least be sure that those playing are some what commited to the game.

Now that's the interesting idea I've seen.

Still wouldn't bother looking for one.

southdeltan

April 12, 2004

All the Photographers Caches were grandfathered. I just participated in one, and it was very enjoyable. Since only phots were involved, the problems with physical caches were eliminated. I'm glad Jeremy permitted them to be grandfathered.

38.2k · April 12, 2004

People can still create moving caches. Just attach travel bug to an ammo box and you have a moving cache. When it's "dropped off" in a cache, the hider can hide it somewhere in the area and provide offset coordinates, or instructions in the "home cache" so people can hunt the moving cache. Presto, you have a moving cache that complies with GC.COM guidelines.

OK, so you don't get a "find" for the cache, but we don't care about numbers, it's all about the hunt, right?

Edited April 12, 2004 by briansnat

April 12, 2004

So are some people truly miffed if they aren't guaranteed a logged "Find" on every attempt? Is gas and time really wasted otherwise?

I guess it would depend on whether you drove 5 miles to get the cache or 55 miles to get it.

Another way to make the most of your trip, is to search for caches near the posted coordinates, that you may not have done. That way if you miss the traveller, you can still hunt others in the area. When we had the travelling cache on Vancouver Island, we encouraged people to do just that. We also used the flagging tape, and had the cachers mark the date and time they were there. That eliminated unnecessary destruction of the area.

Having said that, there are other places to post travellers. That's what I did!

Edited April 13, 2004 by Cacherunner

April 13, 2004

So are some people truly miffed if they aren't guaranteed a logged "Find" on every attempt? Is gas and time really wasted otherwise?

As for the approvers having control over moving cache locations. Let's face it, since when have approvers been able to catch anything more than the obvious location problems of ANY type of cache. Basically ALL but very few approvals have to be based on TRUST that the cache placer has read and is following this sites rules.

Perhaps traveling caches should be "members only", this way you could at least be sure that those playing are some what commited to the game.

Yes, eroyd, some people are indeed "miffed" if they don't find the cache they are searching for. I have been skunked many times in the past, and will be again, no doubt. However, no one owes me fuel money, time, or anything else. I accept the risk of a no find, because I choose to play the game. ( Sorry you had a no find at Parson's Bridge btw)

As you are aware, the latest traveling cache here on Vancouver Island WAS Premium/Charter members only, so as to discourage non-serious finders, as well as those who would trash it for fun. The cache page was updated as soon as was humanly possible, and it had even attracted four new Premium members, who joined just so that they could chase that ONE cache. It was immensely popular, so it was inevitable that SOMEBODY would complain, and try to kill it.

Vancouver has a traveling cache; Abbotsford has a traveling cache. Even Prince George has, or had, one. As usual, the Island gets screwed.

This was gc.com politics at work, and that sucks. Geocaching should be about the game.

9.4k · April 13, 2004

travelingcache.com is available. Knock yourself out.

April 13, 2004

This was gc.com politics at work, and that sucks. Geocaching should be about the game.

With respect, no, no, and no. IMO this is about GC.com protecting its interests as a business (trying to limit the chance of a lawsuit), while also offering enough services for 99% of its clientele.

As long as that remains true, then GC.com will continue to be the website of choice. Navicache and the others will find it very difficult to compete against that. Other geocaching websites that may succeed will be those that offer something different (locationlesscaches.com, travellingcaches.com, geocaching.ru - I don't know if these exist).

It's not about politics, it's about people working hard, trying to keep servers up, and having the right to earn money. Plain and simple. To do that they need to make choices about what is appropriate.

Anyone who complains vociferously about GC.com politics knows the answer - go set up a website yourself. GC is not a monopoly in this area, because GC.com doesn't allow travelling caches.

2.7k · April 13, 2004

To add to AJK, I'd (personally) rather GC.com not be a jack-of-all trades, master of none. I think they are doing what they are doing very well. They have focused on a segment to which they are dedicated, rather than trying to spread themselves too thin. The volunteer approvers have much work already without adding to the work load. Adding new, reliable volunteers can't be easy.

2.5k · April 13, 2004

Hmmm....using tape to show that it is already gone is a nice gesture. But take in consideration the gas and time it took to go out there just to find out the guy before you left the tape but hasn't logged the new location co-ords yet. Doesn't sound like very much fun to me. In a perfect geocaching world, sure, you might have people that log the new co-ords within a couple hours but then you will almost surely run across the guy that isn't that fast about it.
You guys keep your traveling caches, leave the rest to me......lol

So how is this any different from going cache hunting and logging a DNF or finding it plundered? It's a chance you take with ALL caches.

1.6k · April 13, 2004

Too bad Jeremy missed http://www.GOcaching.com

Go caching, or G O caching...

clever...

April 13, 2004

Hmmm....using tape to show that it is already gone is a nice gesture. But take in consideration the gas and time it took to go out there just to find out the guy before you left the tape but hasn't logged the new location co-ords yet. Doesn't sound like very much fun to me. In a perfect geocaching world, sure, you might have people that log the new co-ords within a couple hours but then you will almost surely run across the guy that isn't that fast about it.
You guys keep your traveling caches, leave the rest to me......lol

So how is this any different from going cache hunting and logging a DNF or finding it plundered? It's a chance you take with ALL caches.

Just seems like it would happen so much more often with a traveling cache than a traditional cache.

Geesh..I don't even know why I keep responding to this topic. I'm not against traveling caches.....just trying to figure out how they work, why they aren't allowed to be posted here and whether I would like doing them or not. That's already been established....I don't like them. But you guys do what you want....lol

April 13, 2004

Can't argue about Jeremy having the right to establish any policy his heart desires but I gotta wonder why the rationale isn't communicated better. We just completed "Images of Utah, GC47E4" which is a traveling virtual and without a doubt one of the funnest and most meaningful of all the caches we have done. Check it out and you will see why it has significant value.

2.1k · April 13, 2004

People can still create moving caches. Just attach travel bug to an ammo box and you have a moving cache. When it's "dropped off" in a cache, the hider can hide it somewhere in the area and provide offset coordinates, or instructions in the "home cache" so people can hunt the moving cache. Presto, you have a moving cache that complies with GC.COM guidelines.

OK, so you don't get a "find" for the cache, but we don't care about numbers, it's all about the hunt, right?

Wow, Brian...where'd you come up with that? It sounds like a great idea!

April 13, 2004

Perhaps traveling caches should be "members only", this way you could at least be sure that those playing are some what commited to the game.

Actually, people who are members of gc.com are showing they are committed to gc.com.

There are plenty of "serious" cachers who are not members.

And as far as travelling caches go, I miss them.

July 18, 2011

I see this topic has not had much activity for some time. I have just found one of these in Scotland and was facinated by it. I think these are brilliant caches but I can understand the fustration felt by cachers who discover that the cache has already been found but that is surely part of the game.

19k · July 18, 2011

I see this topic has not had much activity for some time. I have just found one of these in Scotland and was facinated by it. I think these are brilliant caches but I can understand the fustration felt by cachers who discover that the cache has already been found but that is surely part of the game.

Boy, you are a master of the understatement, aren't you? :lol:

We had a moving cache or two in my area several years ago. When somebody found it, they were supposed to post a note on the cache page stating their intentions to find it, and to leave a little stick "teepee" behind so anybody following them would know that there was no need to look for it. It was quite fun, but also caused a lot of angst, for various reasons. Eventually, the cache owner decided it wasn't really worth all the angst and he archived it.

I think we may still have one around here, but it has to (had to?) stay within the park that it was hidden in.

April 12, 2014

Well, it is funny the earlier post (in 2004!) mentioned the disappointment of driving 55 miles to find a travelling cache only to find it not there. In fact just yesterday I drove exactly 55 miles in search of a travelling cache that has come through my area:

The Corps of Discovery: http://coord.info/GC8E37

I wasn't really that miffed, I was excited for the opportunity to get to this historic cache. It's to be expected that when one does come around it will get grabbed quickly. There are so few travelling caches around, and most of them stay in their certain local areas. Of the very few that do travel all around like this one, many are watching it and hope to grab it.

I know there are problems with the travelling caches and I understand the reasons they got rid of them and grandfathered the existing ones in 2003, but I hope they don't entirely ever all die out. In fact, I'd like to see them consider allowing publishing a new one to replace if any of the existing ones ever get archived to keep the population of them constant. (I doubt that would happen, though.)

Having so few of them insures that the ones that do exist are notable. It'd be neat to see the experience of finding one not ever completely go away.

FTFs and travelling caches are the only parts of geocaching that have a unique sense of urgency in that you have to get there before it's gone. Pretty much everything else in geocaching is, "Eh, no rush, it'll still be there tomorrow." And FTFs aren't really an official, recognized thing, anybody can really say they were FTF. Trying to get that historic travelling cache was a nice rush of adrenaline trying to get there to grab it.

Hope I can find one before they all die out.

6.1k · April 12, 2014

You can still create one, just attach a TB tag to a small lock'n'lock and add a logbook. The only difference is that the places it could end up are limited to existing caches, and discovery would not generate a smiley.

April 12, 2014

You can still create one, just attach a TB tag to a small lock'n'lock and add a logbook. The only difference is that the places it could end up are limited to existing caches, and discovery would not generate a smiley.

Yeah but it's not really the same, how do people discover them since they don't show up on the map? Cachers don't really seek out travel bugs like they do caches.

If i come across one of these in an existing cache, I'll move it along.

Besides, the fact that there is only a handful of them is what makes getting one so special. If they were still permitted to be published there would be more of them and not as unique.

5.7k · April 12, 2014

You can still create one, just attach a TB tag to a small lock'n'lock and add a logbook. The only difference is that the places it could end up are limited to existing caches, and discovery would not generate a smiley.

The vehicle TB's are very popular. I love to discover them. You can purchase them at shop Groundspeak. :anibad:

3.7k · April 12, 2014

There are approved travelling caches out there.

Grandfathered. You will not get one approved today.

Dude I'm totally a grandfather. Great, I'm submitting one today

Good one. :laughing:

Traveling Caches, Why Are They Not Allowed?

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