Subscriber Only Caches?

April 8, 2004

Are there many 'premium subscriber only' caches to make it worth it to become a premium member? I'd like to know if there are many in my area before spending the extra money. I'd hate to sign up only to find there aren't any in my area.

38.2k · April 8, 2004

No, there are very few. Most of us don't become premium members because of subscriber only caches. We do so because we want to support a site that provides a very valuable service. Pocket queries are also a nice benefit of being a subscriber.

Edited April 8, 2004 by briansnat

7.2k · April 8, 2004

You will see any MOC (Members Only Caches) in the Nearest Cache list and will be marked with: . You will see it in the same place as the TB icon.

I looked around one of the caches you've been and I see no MOCs out to 60 miles.

Joining just for MOCs is not worth it.

Edited April 8, 2004 by CoyoteRed

April 8, 2004

No, there are very few. Most of us don't become premium members because of subscriber only caches. We do so because we want to support a site that provides a very valuable service. Pocket queries are also a nice benefit of being a subscriber.

Well, I understand that. I was just asking about one of the other benefits of becoming a premium subscriber. I'm all for supporting GC.com and will sign up anyway but also would like to get use of the other benefits as well.

April 8, 2004

You will see any MOC (Members Only Caches) in the Nearest Cache list and will be marked with: . You will see it in the same place as the TB icon.

I looked around one of the caches you've been and I see no MOCs out to 60 miles.

Joining just for MOCs is not worth it.

Thanks for checking, CoyoteRed! That was nice of you!

April 9, 2004

I have never hidden a cache for members only and never will. I subscribe only to help support the web site! It is by far the best and can only get better from every one pitching in. It is so well worth it. There-thats my $3.00 worth..

2.7k · April 9, 2004

From what I hear the Pocket Queries are really very useful.

I don't know yet myself, haven't 'paid the bill' but intend on doing so when I can.

April 9, 2004

What's a pocket query?

2.7k · April 9, 2004

Login to the main website, go to "My Cache Page" and select the Members Options (?) link at the far right. Gives details regarding membership privvys and such. Better than I can explain anyway...

Edited for clarity.

Edited again to add 'useful link': http://www.geocaching.com/subscribe/

Edited April 9, 2004 by New England n00b

April 9, 2004

Thanks nOOb!

4.4k · April 9, 2004

I hid one once and nobody ever found it.

But I wasAmare the only one here in my area for quite a ways around.

I do not think that I will do it again though.

I like regular Caches now.

April 9, 2004

What's a pocket query?

A pocket query is a list of files in either .loc or .gpx fomat that you have e-mailed to you from the site. You set up parameters for what kinds of caches you are interested in. You can set up different queries for different types of caches or areas you are looking at or going to be traveling to. You then take the file and put it into a program for viewing off line. Depending on your platform, there are a number of programs. GSAK, EasyGPS, GPXView and others are used on the PC side of things. For Mac you are on your own since I don't use one. You can then take the list of the caches from one of those programs and upload that data to your GPSr. If you use a PDA or Palm type handheld then you can upload that data to it also and use it while in the field to view the pages just like you were online. Pocket queries are the main reason most people become Premium Members. The other reason is to help support the main stay of our data resource.

Hope that helps and don't be afraid to ask questions. That's how we all learned.

April 9, 2004

Are there many 'premium subscriber only' caches to make it worth it to become a premium member? I'd like to know if there are many in my area before spending the extra money. I'd hate to sign up only to find there aren't any in my area.

Member only caches don't mean much at all. We have over 500 caches within a 40 mile radius of my house and there is only 1 (brand new)(have no idea why they made it one) and maybe two of them. They aren't any different than a public open cache. The reason to become a premium member is up to you. Support to the web site is a good one. Being able to pull pocket queries is a great one.

April 11, 2004

Thanks bunches for the info, Rosco!

I am going to subscribe just to help pay for the cache listings that aren't MCO's. I think I get enough of them that I don't need to do the MOC's anyway. Good enough reason, dontcha think? :tired:

24.7k · April 11, 2004

MOC caches seem to happen for two main reasons.

First to reserve reward the local suscribers for a period before the cache is opened up for all comers.

Second as a response to people losing caches due to plunder.

April 11, 2004

We will occassionally start a cache out as a MEMBER ONLY cache. Especially if we have put a good First to Find prize in it. As soon as the FTF prize is claimed we change it to be open to all.

Marine Biologist (Rodney & Sandy)

April 11, 2004

It's official! I am now a premium member. I don't feel any different though.... :blink: :tired:

April 11, 2004

No, there are very few. Most of us don't become premium members because of subscriber only caches. We do so because we want to support a site that provides a very valuable service. Pocket queries are also a nice benefit of being a subscriber.

Amen...

I am a poor lame guy who doesn't want to dish up the $30, however I am saving my pennies. These folks have done one hell of a job for free.

I will be joining soon, and only because I WANT to support GC.com

:tired:

April 11, 2004

No, there are very few. Most of us don't become premium members because of subscriber only caches. We do so because we want to support a site that provides a very valuable service. Pocket queries are also a nice benefit of being a subscriber.

Amen...

I am a poor lame guy who doesn't want to dish up the $30, however I am saving my pennies. These folks have done one hell of a job for free.

I will be joining soon, and only because I WANT to support GC.com

No worries, crzycrzy. I'm by no means rich either but I took a little pinch of the income tax refund in order to further my newfound hobby a little more. Subscribing took the last bit of it I had left. Just for the free cache listings I have scalped off the site already makes the $30 I spent on subscribing worth every penny.

April 12, 2004

Here's my thought on subscriber-only caches (from a rank tadpole). I elected not to become a premium subscriber simply because I don't believe in having to pay for participation in forums. I realize that the owner(s) have added a lot of value to the site, bandwidth isn't free, servers and software cost money, etc., but I still think the primary value of a forum comes from the individual contributors who are willing to share their time and knowledge with everyone else. The only compensation members get is the ability to participate. They are the reason the forum exists. Without them there would be no community. If an owner cannot afford to provide the service as a labor of love, there is probably someone else who can and will if the need arises.

Having said that - and I'm sure stirring the ire of many paid subscribers :rolleyes: - there are plenty of other ways to recover the costs of operating a site. Advertising is the most common, and while the message boards here are remarkably free of annoying banners and popups, I believe geocaching.com is sponsored by a number of GPS-related manufacturers and retailers. The advertising fees they pay are directly related to the size of forum membership.

I do patronize such sponsors whenever possible. I recently ordered some $250 worth of merchandise from offroute.com, for example. According to their web site, Your price for this product includes a 5-20% contribution that will be made on your behalf to support GEOCACHING.COM. I'm sure I could have shopped around and saved some money on the purchase, but I felt it was a legitimate and reasonable way to provide voluntary support without going against principle. As a result, I'm ineligible for subcription benefits, including subscriber only caches. That's why I oppose two-tiered membership. Just MHO, but I had to express it.

April 12, 2004

We will occassionally start a cache out as a MEMBER ONLY cache. Especially if we have put a good First to Find prize in it. As soon as the FTF prize is claimed we change it to be open to all.

I really like this idea! I hadn't thought of it before. I think I will start doing that, as there are quite a few premium members in my area and it would be cool to give them first shot at my cache!

April 12, 2004

Advertising is the most common, and while the message boards here are remarkably free of annoying banners and popups, I believe geocaching.com is sponsored by a number of GPS-related manufacturers and retailers. The advertising fees they pay are directly related to the size of forum membership.

I do patronize such sponsors whenever possible. I recently ordered some $250 worth of merchandise from offroute.com, for example. According to their web site, Your price for this product includes a 5-20% contribution that will be made on your behalf to support GEOCACHING.COM. I'm sure I could have shopped around and saved some money on the purchase, but I felt it was a legitimate and reasonable way to provide voluntary support without going against principle. As a result, I'm ineligible for subcription benefits, including subscriber only caches. That's why I oppose two-tiered membership. Just MHO, but I had to express it.

1. I will gladly pay my 30 bucks a year to keep the site from tons of ads and popups.

2. I really don't think that GC.com gets any kind of "kickback" from any of the GPS manufacturers. Maybe a few bucks from the very limited number of advertisers on the site.

3. The ability to go paperless with the pocket queries are more than worth the small donation.

Just MHO. Happy caching!

24.7k · April 12, 2004

...I elected not to become a premium subscriber simply because I don't believe in having to pay for participation in forums. ...

I just don't see the point here...I'd use the site and pony up the money even without the forums. Anybody who paid money to listen to my drivel is nuts anyway. The only forum benifit I get is to have a title under my avitar.

April 13, 2004

I don't believe in having to pay for participation in forums. I realize that the owner(s) have added a lot of value to the site, bandwidth isn't free, servers and software cost money, etc., but I still think the primary value of a forum comes from the individual contributors who are willing to share their time and knowledge with everyone else. The only compensation members get is the ability to participate. They are the reason the forum exists. Without them there would be no community. If an owner cannot afford to provide the service as a labor of love, there is probably someone else who can and will if the need arises.

The forums are free. The only member benefit in the forums (that I know of) is to be able to change your forum title. Not a very big deal to me. I believe the forums to be a very small part of the overall storage and bandwidth that gc.com incurs.

Having said that - and I'm sure stirring the ire of many paid subscribers - there are plenty of other ways to recover the costs of operating a site. Advertising is the most common, and while the message boards here are remarkably free of annoying banners and popups, I believe geocaching.com is sponsored by a number of GPS-related manufacturers and retailers. The advertising fees they pay are directly related to the size of forum membership.

Your not stirring my ire, your allowed your opinion. Even if your wrong. I just took a look around and I don't see any advertising here in the forums. I would much rather pay to support the site than have to put up with banners and if there were pop-ups I wouldn't be here. Also banners and pop-ups don't pay what they used to. There is also very little advertising on the main site. The only 2 advertisements I see are for offroute and for Geoteaming. I don't see any GPS manufacturers support.

Personally I don't like the 5-20% thing. How do you know what they are contributing? How many items are they contributing 20% on? Don't take this wrong I think its marvelous that they are supporting gc.com. Everybody has their own business model. Personally I'd rather see a % discount on their prices like other sites like GPS passion has arrainged for their members and then I could chose where or how to to use my savings to support the sport.

Had you saved $30 by shopping around instead of ordering my offroute.com you could have donated that $30 to gc.com. If offroute only donated 5% of your purchase they would have contributed $12.50 to the site. You could have donated $30. I feel this way about many things. Like I won't give my money to the United Way for them to decide where it goes, I'd rather give my money directly to the organizations that need it. But this is just my opinion. We can all choose to support the site however we want. I like the idea of starting a cache for members only to reward others who are willing to support the site like i have. Oh yeah and the GPX files are the only way to go paperless. There is so much cool stuff you can do with them.

6.5k · April 13, 2004

Here's my thought on subscriber-only caches (from a rank tadpole). I elected not to become a premium subscriber simply because I don't believe in having to pay for participation in forums. I realize that the owner(s) have added a lot of value to the site, bandwidth isn't free, servers and software cost money, etc., but I still think the primary value of a forum comes from the individual contributors who are willing to share their time and knowledge with everyone else. The only compensation members get is the ability to participate. They are the reason the forum exists. Without them there would be no community. If an owner cannot afford to provide the service as a labor of love, there is probably someone else who can and will if the need arises.

I don't understand what you mean. You wouldn't pay Groundspeak for 'premium' because money is doubtless diverted from the actual caching features, to run/upgrade these forums?? is that what you mean or have I missed it?

2.2k · April 13, 2004

As a small reward for premium members, I make any caches I hide "Members Only" for 2 days after its approved. This way, premium members have first crack at it before I open it up to everyone.

April 13, 2004

I don't understand what you mean. You wouldn't pay Groundspeak for 'premium' because money is doubtless diverted from the actual caching features, to run/upgrade these forums?? is that what you mean or have I missed it?

No, I'm just against the idea of having to pay annual/monthly membership fees to offset the cost of maintaining the site. I've been involved with BBS's and web forums since the late 70's [!] and have managed company news and discussion boards, so I have a pretty good idea of operating costs. Once upon a time everything on the Internet was free. Then came the era of dotcoms and get-rich-quick scams. There are a lot of special interest forums out there that take your money up front with the promise of content and then fold before they ever get off the ground. There's nothing wrong with making money off a commercial site, but I think discussion forums should be different. Geocaching shouldn't become a sport with add-on membership costs. Once it does, we might start seeing pay-per-view geocaches where you have to send the owner a fee to get the waypoint. Or has this been tried already?

Lest I be accused of paranoia, let me relate the experience I've had with other fan-oriented discussion groups. I helped create a forum for a certain sports car interest group. We've had several site owners who've initially agreed to host it as a free forum with limited advertising sponsorship. As membership grew and the owners started seeing $$, they decided to change the rules. First it was 'premium membership', then free membership for a limited time, then finally full paid membership for everyone. Once it reached that point, we pulled up stakes and moved to a different location. The old sites invariably withered and died because people just weren't willing to pay fees for what had been a free service. They realized that the main value was member participation and free alternatives are available elsewhere. We only have a couple thousand members in this particular group. Groundspeak may be big enough to sustain itself with paid subscriptions, but I'd hate to see what has essentially been a free hobby turn into something else. That's about all I have to say.

Edited April 13, 2004 by apogee

April 13, 2004

To answer the original post. Most of the "cooler" caches that I place are members only. When I take alot of time or invest alot of money in a cache, I save it for premium members. I also stock these caches better. I figure premium mebers deserve the premium caches.

April 13, 2004

No, I'm just against the idea of having to pay annual/monthly membership fees to offset the cost of maintaining the site. I've been involved with BBS's and web forums since the late 70's [!] and have managed company news and discussion boards, so I have a pretty good idea of operating costs.

You admitted in your post that there are costs associated with running a website - hosting, hardware, bandwidth, software licenses. geocaching.com isn't your corner BBS - it's a massive multi-user web application. The site requires at least one full time developer to maintain it. Can you beleive the nerve of someone actually asking people for money for a service they use?!? I don't see why Jeremy can't just pay all his bills and eek out a living on t-shirt and sticker sales.

sheesh...

Well, how about instead of asking for subscriptions and giving people premium content in exchange, he just sold out to every pop-under spyware-riddenn advert company to pay his bills?

4.7k · April 13, 2004

the thing i love is that everyone can play whether they pay or not. i paid to support the site, and love pq's although i didn't use them for many months after i paid.

it's just nice to have paid. makes me feel good. makes me feel like i'm giving something back. i get so much benefit from this site and i want to do what i can.

24.7k · April 13, 2004

apogee this site is subject to the same rules of reality as every other organization. If it gets to far from what members want it will wither and die just like any other site. Because geocaching is on the internet the sport will be self correcting after a fashion.

1.3k · April 13, 2004

I don't understand what you mean. You wouldn't pay Groundspeak for 'premium' because money is doubtless diverted from the actual caching features, to run/upgrade these forums?? is that what you mean or have I missed it?

No, I'm just against the idea of having to pay annual/monthly membership fees to offset the cost of maintaining the site. I've been involved with BBS's and web forums since the late 70's [!] and have managed company news and discussion boards, so I have a pretty good idea of operating costs. Once upon a time everything on the Internet was free. Then came the era of dotcoms and get-rich-quick scams. There are a lot of special interest forums out there that take your money up front with the promise of content and then fold before they ever get off the ground. There's nothing wrong with making money off a commercial site, but I think discussion forums should be different. Geocaching shouldn't become a sport with add-on membership costs. Once it does, we might start seeing pay-per-view geocaches where you have to send the owner a fee to get the waypoint. Or has this been tried already?

Lest I be accused of paranoia, let me relate the experience I've had with other fan-oriented discussion groups. I helped create a forum for a certain sports car interest group. We've had several site owners who've initially agreed to host it as a free forum with limited advertising sponsorship. As membership grew and the owners started seeing $$, they decided to change the rules. First it was 'premium membership', then free membership for a limited time, then finally full paid membership for everyone. Once it reached that point, we pulled up stakes and moved to a different location. The old sites invariably withered and died because people just weren't willing to pay fees for what had been a free service. They realized that the main value was member participation and free alternatives are available elsewhere. We only have a couple thousand members in this particular group. Groundspeak may be big enough to sustain itself with paid subscriptions, but I'd hate to see what has essentially been a free hobby turn into something else. That's about all I have to say.

What in the h#ll does the subscription have to do with the forums?? The VAST majority of geocachers don't read the forums. The membership fees help pay for the server and bandwith on the GEOCACHING.com site - the forums are only a small (and normally only minorly entertaining) part of geocaching.com.

Most of the people I've met in my state never read the forums, much less post to them - and MOST of them are premium members (I know this bc I see it on their profile page).

Geocaching is about hiding and finding caches with (or without) your GPS. It's not about forums.

I just don't understand what that has to do with not paying?? If you're looking for geocaches you're using the site. If you feel like chipping in - do so - the benifits (PQ's) are nice but not necessary. If you don't - don't - the site will go on.

southdeltan

April 13, 2004

Once upon a time everything on the Internet was free.

Not true. I have been around since the early 70s myself and, while a lot was free, there were BBSes that charged.

2.2k · April 13, 2004

Once upon a time everything on the Internet was free.

Not true. I have been around since the early 70s myself and, while a lot was free, there were BBSes that charged.

I dont recall there even being an internet back in the 70's?

2k · April 13, 2004

Once upon a time everything on the Internet was free.

Not true. I have been around since the early 70s myself and, while a lot was free, there were BBSes that charged.

I dont recall there even being an internet back in the 70's?

Do a web search on ARPANET.

21.9k · April 13, 2004

This thread has strayed a bit off-topic. While it was fine for awhile to discuss the logic behind Members-only Caches and Premium Memberships, we're now discussing the history of the internet, and successful/unsuccessful models for financing a website. Those tangents are beyond the scope of the Getting Started forum, and certainly well past the original question which, once again, was:

Are there many 'premium subscriber only' caches to make it worth it to become a premium member?

Please keep to this topic or the thread will be closed. If you want to debate the merits of premium memberships and how the site is supported, pull up one of the many topics in the General Geocaching Discussions forum. Thanks.

6.5k · April 14, 2004

Are there many 'premium subscriber only' caches to make it worth it to become a premium member?

I'd say no. As of last thursday, the whole of MO had only 2 such caches.

And creating a MOC doesn't really anything special, other than checking that little box on the cache page.

April 14, 2004

Joining just for Members Only caches probably isn't worthwhile. Even locally, where we have a couple of geocachers who hide nothing but members only caches there's plenty to find without plunking down any money. Join because you want to support geocaching.com, join for the pocket queries, but don't join just for MOC, any more than you'd join so you can customize your forum title.

Subscriber Only Caches?

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