Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2
Black Dog Trackers

Valuation Of Finds

Recommended Posts

When I plan a benchmark hunt, I pay attention to how long ago the most recent found report is in the databases. I do admit that I lean toward the more recent ones, figuring on a more certain find. It is a big deal to find one that has no report for a long time. It is an even bigger thing to find one that has had a Not Found report in NGS and an even bigger thing if the Not Found report is from the NGS or the monumenting agency themselves.

 

Seeing no new messages here for the while, I'll try to quantify these differences, just for fun.

 

When you find a bunch of benchmarks and reflect on the hunting spoils of the day, you feel some finds are 'worth' more than others. Of course, there are many factors in a find or no-find that make it more or less difficult than others, but for this I figure on just addressing the time (years) concept here.

 

So here goes - a find is worth 1 'point' per year since the last report. This last report would be in either the NGS or the Geocaching site. So, if a PID was monumented in 1920 and had a bunch of found reports in the NGS database up to 1984, one would count 20 points for it. However, if another geocacher found the PID in 2001, then you count 3 points instead.

 

What about Not-Founds? Searching for PIDs with a Not-found report requires some guts and I usually chicken out. But some of us find them occasionally, and when we do, we're proud of it. This is especially true when the Not-Found report is by the NGS or the monumenting agency! So, double the points since the Not-Found report and triple them in the case of a NGS or monumenting agency Not-Found report. Example: a PID has found reports until 1954, and then in 1984 there is a Not-Found report. So, there's 30 points from 1954 to 1984 and 2 times 20 (=40) points for the years between 1984 and 2004, giving a total of 70. If the Not-Found report was from the NGS, then the score would be 90 instead.

 

So, after your day of benchmark finding, you can tally up the points, just for fun.

 

What's all this points foolishness?! All such systems tend to get people to do things slightly differently than they ordinarily would. Even if we don't actually count points except once in a while for fun, I think it is useful to think of how some finds are more valuable than others to the real surveying world.

Share this post


Link to post

I like it (we *are* sick you know). Bonus points:

 

20 points for radical changes in the current scene from original description.

 

30 points for the mark being covered up by debris, and having to use some logic to figure out where to uncover it (10 more for only needing one try).

 

100 points for having to do something that gets the adrenaline pumping.

 

K-70 was one that had all three of these elements.

 

edited to add points for adrenaline...that was kinda freaky!

Edited by embra

Share this post


Link to post
When I plan a benchmark hunt, I pay attention to how long ago the most recent found report is in the databases. 

...

Even if we don't actually count points except once in a while for fun, I think it is useful to think of how some finds are more valuable than others to the real surveying world.

Sounds too complicated and besides, each individual knows himself as to how he did.

 

According to your point system, I would score poorly on one find that was well worthwhile. Before geocaching.com set up the database, AB0711 had been classified as DESTROYED by our friends, USPSQD, in 1987 and was not included in the geocache database.

 

In this particular case, I did not have the description or history of the mark, only the coordinates when I went searching. After the find, I could not log it here since it did not exist in this database. But I did log my find with Deb and she corrected the NGS database. After the correction, I saw where another surveyor found this mark last year but did not inform NGS that it was not destroyed. Yeah, I know, I should have looked at the DESTROYED datasheet before the postings.

 

Have some others also that were declared as DESTROYED by NGS personnel, but had been found and not reported before I submitted my corrections.

 

But the most satisfying one was KL0272 where the coordinates were off by nine miles!

 

So I feel satisfied to make the corrections to NGS even if it doesn't rate many points in your system.

Share this post


Link to post
What about Not-Founds?

I look for two types of benchmarks, "not founds", and ones that haven't been found in at least 34 years (1970 and prior). More fun that way.

 

I will sometimes look for ones that don't fit those categores, for instance, there is one that has the scaled coordinates approximately 15 miles north of where the description puts it. I'm going to hunt that one just to get real coordinates for it.

Share this post


Link to post

OK, that's funny... I was typing up the post before I saw Co Papa's post... and we both used an example of coordinates being off by miles!

 

The one I'm going to go hunt is this one: ER0240. The coordinates (and map pictuere) put it in Springerville, the description is from Rutrioso, which is actually Nutrioso (did scooby-doo type this one up?).

Share this post


Link to post

I keep it real simpl myself I get 100 points for everyone found,

If it is a not found I Double it.

 

Lets see that would be some where around 10,400 points. WOW Thanks I will have to start adding up the points better.

I usually really do not keep track but maybe I will start.

Share this post


Link to post

embra -

 

Yeowww! A hundred points!!! :P

 

Colorado Papa -

 

Yep, as I said I was just going by years. One could think up a hundred variance items between experiences hunting benchmarks. One I did recently was found not all that long ago, but required a very long hike with bushwhacking, crossing a very uncertain bridge, and crawling through a 25 foot diameter stickerbush to reach with one hand to take the pic of the disk in the exact center of the bush while kneeling on my printouts and groaning in pain.

 

Colorado Papa, ckhd -

 

You guys are much more adventurous than me! :blink:

 

GEO*Trailblazer 1 -

 

Heh, I didn't figure people would really be counting points, I just figured it was an amusing concept, but I hope you have fun with it. <_< I might try it too. I do agree that many not-founds require a LOT more effort than the finds!

Edited by Black Dog Trackers

Share this post


Link to post

I know I was just joking too...But I find it interesting way to get the heart a pumpin as embra would say.

 

I was doing some research today for the Lewis and Clark Dedication and found a couple of Benchmarks that I found and did not even log.I had to go back and log em.

 

After logging so many sometimes it will get monotnous and have to find a way to get going and the disability does not help either.Wish I was my former self and could still do those 15-20 mile hikes to the tops of the Peaks I use to climb,It is hard to climb out of the Truck now, but Everyone here has inspired me in more ways than imaginable and it makes it a worthwhile effort to get out there and be a part of this Geocaching community.

 

Thank you all for your enlightning diffrent aspects of thought.

 

It always seems better to see it from a diffrent light or another perspective.

Share this post


Link to post
K-70 was one that had all three of these elements.

Looks like it's time to add a harness, 100' of rope and a handful of 'biners to my benchmark kit. Never know when it might come in handy. I tried for a mark similarly positioned (in Potter County, PA) but was unprepared and still just a bit more lucid than embra <_< , so I didn't actually recover it.

Share this post


Link to post

I definately head for those that haven't been recovered since monumentation. In 1942. Or thereabouts. 'cours, I think I've only recovered one so far (on a wing wall of a small bridge, below a foot of accumulated soil, cow manure, and road stones).

 

Lots of not-founds, but I don't log them yet because I keep going back to look. And look at old maps to make sure the road referred to is the road I'm standing on. And the same with structures. Then again, I also have a pile to tackle when I can get my hands on a metal detector.

 

I do go for more recent ones, if I'm already in the area, just for the practice. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post

Here's a question for you, BDT.

 

While out benchmarking today we found a benchmark set in 1934 and it had a 'found' recovery in 1962. Then in 1978 the USGS reported it as 'Not Found'!

 

How many points do we get for finding it after it has been misssing for 26 years?

 

:lol:;);)

 

Regardless of the score, it feels so nice to recover one that was MIA for so long.

 

Here is the link for 3938.63 and the PID# is GP0225. Pictures are posted with the log.

 

CROWING loudly!

 

Do I need to go sit in the truck now?

 

John & Shirley

Share this post


Link to post

Can we get extera points for poison ivy?

 

I've been scratching away for two weeks now, and I think I deserve something for my agony!

 

~ArtMan

Share this post


Link to post

2OF -

 

Waaaay Kool !

 

That's quite a find; it took me a couple seconds to see it in there! It's about as hidden as a geocache.

 

Your points: 1978 - 1962 + 3*(2004 - 1978) = 94

 

Great closeup picture too.

Share this post


Link to post

Thank you, but we are not through crowing yet. Also, today we found 2 other marks that the Power Squadron could not find!

 

Also this weekend we found some marks that were scaled & off by about a third of a mile.

 

Wow, what a couple of great days we have had! It makes all of those days when the heat about kills you & all you can find is cow dung, seem insignificant.

 

Shirley~

Share this post


Link to post
Wow, what a couple of great days we have had! It makes all of those days when the heat about kills you & all you can find is cow dung, seem insignificant.

This sure has been a terrific weekend. The social secretary says she never knew so much about the Arkansas Valley north of Salida, Colorado before. We even found this old bridge over the Arkansas River while going for JL0007.

87fa1987-9d5e-475f-b2dd-83f7a1413364.jpg

With this plaque:

282ad1b0-c634-4e6d-a6ca-0c566d1cd99e.jpg

Share this post


Link to post

We were out doing a few recoveries today and found one that was monumented in 1934. The next recovery log is for 1954 and it is a did not find.

 

Since we were the first to recover this BM does that mean we get 70 points for being the first since monumentation and then 150 point for the 50 years since the NGS logged it as a DNF, for a grand total of 220 points? :anibad:

 

Here is the page for GP0265 'E 51'.

 

John & Shirley

Share this post


Link to post

That would be 20 + 150 = 170; the 20 being the first 20 years until 1954, and the 150 for the years after 1954 - you can't count the same years twice.

 

Congratulations! Finding a 1954 mark is pretty good in itself, and finding one not found that long ago with no official attempts since then is really cool.

Share this post


Link to post

BDT,

 

We have been looking at our finds & listing the ones that are First to Recover since monumented & the ones Found that had been reported as Not Founds by some official agency.

 

Well, last Feb. we had found a certain mark that is one of those 'time-warp' things, & now we are wondering how this would pan out for finding one placed in 1962 & "Not Found" in 1934 by the *NGS*. Do we get points for the DNF? Points for the FTR? Both?

 

Here is GPO223 for you to ponder. You have to scroll all the way down to see the 1934 DNF by the NGS.

 

Shirley & John

Share this post


Link to post

2oldfarts (the rockhounders) -

 

Well that is really quite weird!

 

I can just imagine the report: "We did not find the mark, which wasn't very surprising, since this mark will not be monumented until 28 years from now. Do you have a record of when the replacement time machine you requested will be arriving?"

 

I tried a bunch of nearby benchmarks and found no obvious similar records of the NGS looking for a disk in the same series but with a correct date.

 

So, I agree - it's a mystery!

 

I can't figure out the points. :laughing:

Share this post


Link to post

I say take all the points you can calculate...idiosyncracies in the datasheets are part of the game!

Share this post


Link to post

As a newby at recovering these things, I am just working out a usable database to record the marks I plan to look for, the finds, and the reports.

 

It has been satisfying to have found 16 that have not been reported since monumented in the 1930's and a couple NF's, by the Power Squadron. I may figure a point system for myself to keep score.

 

For now, the raw number of logs in the Geocaching site is my only number. I have so far gravitated to searching for complete series, though done in fits, you might say. I think it would be worth some bonus points to log an entire series, e.g.: A 80 - Z 80.

 

I tend to search over and over, think on the search, and search again for those not found. I really would hate to report a Not Found and have the thing found later. I will award myself 100 bonus points for each series I log when I am satisfied I know the status of each mark. :blink:

 

(Edited for spelling)

Edited by GH55

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2

×
×
  • Create New...