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Early Bird Gets Fooled


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I wen to search for a cache that had not been found yet at 5 am. I hiked for over a mile and got my school uniform dirty. I had to climb over a barbed wire fence. When I got there I searched for about an hour. I did not find it so I went to school. I logged that i could noit find it in the cache at school. I received an email that told me "I have not placed the cache yet". I was thinking!@#$%$@^$#!$##@$!!##@!##@$!#@$!@$@$#^$%??????????? why would you put the cords out on the website if there was not a cache there. This was a regular cache too not a mystery cache. I think Geocaching.com needs to ionclude in there "how to place a cache" that "you must have the cache in place before you can submit the information to the website for approval"

 

The cache is at http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...57-3efa0f17f16d

 

I am really ticked off by this has this happened to anyone else?

:D:P:P:D:D:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::o:D:(:o:P:P:D:o:D

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Today I submitted two caches at 5:30 pm. As soon as I submitted them I went and placed the ammo boxes at the spot (they're both in the same park and its close to my house). KA approved them by 6:30 pm. They were in place by then, but just barely. These approvers can be mighty quick, so hiders need to be prepared.

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Fortunately, we have never come across this. But yes, we'd be pretty ticked if that happened. We would never submit a cache unless it was actually there. Even if you want to create the cache page, it doesn't take that much to uncheck the box that says "This cache is currently active"... :o

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I wen to search for a cache that had not been found yet at 5 am. I hiked for over a mile and got my school uniform dirty. I had to climb over a barbed wire fence. When I got there I searched for about an hour. I did not find it so I went to school. I logged that i could noit find it in the cache at school. I received an email that told me "I have not placed the cache yet". I was thinking!@#$%$@^$#!$##@$!!##@!##@$!#@$!@$@$#^$%??????????? why would you put the cords out on the website if there was not a cache there. This was a regular cache too not a mystery cache. I think Geocaching.com needs to ionclude in there "how to place a cache" that "you must have the cache in place before you can submit the information to the website for approval"

 

The cache is at http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...57-3efa0f17f16d

 

I am really ticked off by this has this happened to anyone else?

:D:D:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::o:o:(:o:P:P:D:D:P:D:D:P

My first thought is... you definitely need to stay in school (do they still teach grammar?).

 

My second thought is, people should definitely have their cache hidden before being submitted. This should be mandatory.

 

Having it tested by a fellow cacher before submission is also a good idea.

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I am not a FTF freak but I know there are a lot of them out there!

 

Looking at the hider's profile, I see that s/he is relatively new and this was their first hide. Maybe they didn't know the procedure or didn't notice the "this cache is not currently active" button.

 

Yes, I think I would be annoyed if I woke up early to be FTF on a cache that wasn't even there. I think you have a right to be annoyed! Honestly though, I don't think the hider knew the procedure and should just take this fiasco as a lesson learned. :o

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In a way though that's part of the risk of trying to be FTF - I've gone to ones where the stated coordinates are off and spent an hour in the wrong place. Had I been fifth to find, I'd have known this. Just one of those things.

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Today I submitted two caches at 5:30 pm.  As soon as I submitted them I went and placed the ammo boxes at the spot (they're both in the same park and its close to my house).  KA approved them by 6:30 pm.  They were in place by then, but just barely.  These approvers can be mighty quick, so hiders need to be prepared.

Why submit them before they are even there??

Edited by Stunod
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Why submit before they are even there? I guess that boils down to what you mean by submit.

 

I placed a cache over the weekend, and it was approved a couple of hours ago. On Saturday I went searching for the perfect location, found it, prepared the cache, and prepared the entry. I was very careful, though, not to check the "cache is active" box, since I knew it wasn't.

 

On Sunday I went back up and actually stashed the box, doublechecked the readings, and then came home and edited the listing to check the active box.

 

It's entirely possible that the creator meant to do it this way and just screwed up.

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As an active hunter of caches in an attempt to be FTF I would be very upset if the cache had been submitted, but actually had not been placed. Granted, it may have been a 'new' cacher placing the cache, but I still would have been upset. It's not unusual for me to be out the door by 5:00AM in an attempt to find a cache or to stay out until the wee hours of the morning in such an attempt. I'm sorry that Team ClandestinePenguin found themselves searching without a cache actually being placed :o

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This is a new one for me. I have about 40 caches and ALWAYS have them hidden before submitting the request. Yes, sometimes I have had to move them for various reasons (well only once actually -- when I found out that the final stage of a multi was 10 ft away -- but then found the multi with only doing one stage!)...but back to the issue...what was it?....oh yes....I'd never submit and later place a cache, for this very reason -- never want to take a chance that someone will waste their good time searching for something not there.

 

Tell the guy you get to log a find and that he owes you a beer!

 

.

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I'm still on the "I had to climb over a barbed wire fence" bit.

 

While I can understand the desire to place the cache and then list it, I'm a little worried that someone in their school uniform would be hiking a mile, climbing over barbed wire, and getting dirty all for the goal of being FTF.

 

If you want a little less overeagerness and a little more planning on the hiders part, you might want to set an example for them.

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If you want a little less overeagerness and a little more planning on the hiders part, you might want to set an example for them.

 

Are you just playing devil's advocate? Come on! Finding caches is way more fun than going to school. I mean, he did get up at 5 am. He wasnt planning on missing school, and any teenager I know that will get up EARLY to go do something already has a one-up over the general population of teens.

 

Overeagerness is great when you are looking for a cache. It makes you get your hands dirty (or in this case, a school uniform :o) The hider has some additional responsibility however. He is hiding things for other people, while the finder, is finding for themselves.

 

If anything, his overeagerness to find the cache is a good example to the other cachers who spend their time on these message boards, whining about how caches only hold crap, and how much the approvers suck. When a new cache pops up in my area, which unfortunately is few and far between, unless me, or the other local cacher places it, I RUN OUT THE DOOR!

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I'm still on the "I had to climb over a barbed wire fence" bit.

 

BTDT.... In fact, I did much worse during my grammar school days. Around here, many old pastures have been reclaimed by nature and there are many, old barbed wire fences you can, and will, encounter while hiking in the forests. Many of these old fences are most easily dealt with by simply climbing over them.

 

As a law enforcement officer, I would much rather have our youth out searching for geocaches in the wee hours of the morning that doing other things which could prove harmful to themselves or the population as a whole. Happy caching!

Edited by jeff35080
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That hasn't happened to me exactly. I happen to be one of those FTF freaks and a half a dozen times I've been out there bushwhacking, sloshing through mud, getting scratched by thorns, etc... Only to find out that the coords were not correct. The cache was placed in those cases but the coords were for the cache owners front yard or something. It's always been with a newbie cache hider. I see in this case the owner is not only a newbie hider but they haven't even found one single solitary cache yet! :o

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Wow... it would never have occurred to me that you could submit and post a cache before actually hiding it. How would you know the coordinates?

I guess if you scouted the area, got the coords, and just wanted to get gc.com approval before placing the cache, that would make sense. Just never thought of that before.

 

My first cache (way back) I hid in a National Park. My local approver very politely told me to RTFM (not in those words), and I went back the next day to retrieve it. Took me a long time to find it, even with the coords. Rather embarrasing.

 

I could definitely imagine a case where you could hide a cache, and not realize that there was another cache too close (either a new-and-not-yet-listed cache, or a members-only cache you didn't have access to, or a puzzle cache not at the posted coords). So, maybe it does make sense to get the approval first. Hmm....

 

Maybe new cache pages should be hidden/unavailable until the cache-hider explicitly makes them available.

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We were recently FTF on a cache that had not yet been approved nor listed. It was an accidental find searching for an approved cache about 50 feet away. We signed the log, traded, but did NOT do the FTF dance. :o We figured that it would get denied. Fortunately the owner left his username inside. After emailing the owner, he confirmed it was denied due to proximity to an existing cache. We are not too interested in the FTF mad dash. I like to keep my geocaching uniform clean. :D Just kidding. Anyway, looks like the consensus thus far is place it first, even though you may need to move it. And deny MY FTF dance! :D

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You probably shouldn't have to climb over barbed wire to get to a cache. If that was the only possible way, it should be archived.

 

I disagree. The largest state park in the state has barbed wire fence in a few places that most people don't know about. The park allows off-trail hiking. The fences once surrounded a pasture but have been reclaimed by nature and forgotten-about by humans. He didn't say he was trespassing while climbing the fence. Try to think about a fence in the manner I have suggested. There may be another way to reach the cache, but a fence, unto itself, is not a reason to archive a cache. Cheers!

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Yeesh, I scout and mark coords, prep container/goodies and write up the page in a text editor offline. Another day I place the container and take another set of coords to average then list it online.

 

As for barbed wire--please put caches on the far side of it as much as possible. (What's up with these people not appreciating challenges?)

 

The closer to the trail the more likely to be muggled!

 

OTOH, I've frequently gone out at midnight to try for FTF, found one over 500' from the coords by a new cacher (good hintage) on a five hour trip (see my profile under "most extreme logs")--one of my best trips ever.

 

The risk of such trouble is what leads to the enjoyment of FFs!!

 

Chalk up such adventures to great stories to share at the next event (or commiserate)...

 

Either way, it's not worth investing emotional energy in being upset over someone's unintentional error. With experience, won't happen again--if it DOES, THEN be VERY upset and let them know it.

 

Enjoy,

 

Randy

 

PS: Remember, geocaches go on the FAR side of barbed wire--just remember to mention it in the description and rate the terrain accordingly or ignorant folks will complain.

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wow that alot of replies. First off we wein in the wrong way and second i hacve an idea for keeping my uniform clean wear something over it :D I am one of those people who "plan ahead" and by "ahead" I mean after I have Done it. Sadly I did not think we would end up getting dirty because it seemed pretty close to the road. We took the long way because we forgot the map. Unluckily it rained (yes when it rains in Texas it is alot of rain) actualy Texas has 5 of the top 12 worst floods in history. I remember in 98 when the road was nothing but water "sigh good times". Nobody saw the dirt because it was on the bottom of my pants and I fake hemmed them by rooling them up.

Where is spellcheck when you need it? :o

Hoked on fonicks wrked fro me :D

Edited by Team ClandestinePenguin
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A few words in Team ClandestinePenguin's defense. I had tried this cache on the day that it was approved, Sunday. I don't log my DNF's, having assumed that it my old eyes/bad coordinates/lack of patience making me miss the location. Having seen the discussion on our local Yahoo board, I knew that it hadn't been placed yet, so wasn't too hard on myself about missing it, though was a bit burnt up by it not being there at all. The real rub is that the hider had it approved on Sunday, but didn't get around to placing it until Wednesday!

 

The cache itself is at a city natural area that's being reclaimed from where they straightened one of the roads in town, and there are some old fences in there. Having lived in Texas since '87, I've learned not to cross fences if I don't know what's on the other side, lest it be an angry bull or owner with a shotgun. This one was a safe bet, since the trail that the cache was off of was on the other side, inside the park. I took a side road in to the park, and only hiked 500ft to the cache, rather than the 1/2 mile from the official parking area.

 

And while I am no FTF junkie (we have another local cacher has that title, Bilderback), I did try to find this on Sunday seemingly mere minutes after it was approved, just because it had been listed sometime while I was out caching that morning, and was pretty near the house. So if you're gonna get 'em approved, people WILL go out to find 'em.

 

rate the terrain accordingly or ignorant folks will complain.

Are they really ignorant? Or is the hider ignorant for rating inappropriately?

 

Be well, and cache safely!

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I was guilty of this. I always place the cache, then submit it for approval...except for once. My local admin appeared to be backlogged and all my recent approvals had taken several days, so I posted this one before I went to bed (around midnight) figuring it would be at least a day before it was approved. I woke up at 5 am, checked it and to my surprise and dismay it was approved, so I had to throw some clothes on and run out and place the cache.

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Today I submitted two caches at 5:30 pm.  As soon as I submitted them I went and placed the ammo boxes at the spot (they're both in the same park and its close to my house).  KA approved them by 6:30 pm.  They were in place by then, but just barely.  These approvers can be mighty quick, so hiders need to be prepared.

Why submit them before they are even there??

First, I didn't understand how the "cache is currently active" button functioned (these were my first two hides). The stencil I use has a spot for the GC# on it, and I wanted t put that on the cache. I didn't know I could start the submission, obtain a GC#, and then submit for approval later. Now that I inderstand how it works, I may approach things differently for future hides.

 

Second allow me to explain the process I went through and the reasons behind it.

 

The weather in my area has been crappy the past few weeks and there has been little time to go caching, so as soon as there was a decent day I went for it. I had hoped to have these caches active by 4/7, because that was my 2 year anniver. of caching. I planned to go hiking and caching all day on 4/7.

 

I had already scouted out area to hide them. I had the cache completely prepared, the ammo cans were painted, stenciled and stocked. I went out and visited the precise spots three times to get an avg of waypoints. I came home with the coords, and printed out the coords for the final of my multi to be placed in the first stage. I already had all the information for submission prepared in word. I copied and pasted the info to the form, and submitted them. The park is only a few miles from my house, so as soon as they were submitted I immediately left and placed them.

 

In this instance, it would have been extremely improbable that a cacher could have been looking for these caches before they were hidden. I was at the park ten minutes after the caches were submitted for approval. However, I can see that this could have been a problem if I lived farther away from the cache site, or didn't leave immediately to hide them, or if I was abducted by aliens on the way to the park. FYI, my caches were not found untill 12 hours later, so again, in this instance there wasn't a problem.

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I think if your doing something for the first time, you should pay extra attention to details, particularly if others can be affected by your carelessness.

 

It's pretty obvious that the cache can't be "active" if it's in your house, but they aren't the first (or likely the last) person to do this.

 

This is why I think the default on the "Is this cache active?" should be "NO" instead of yes.

 

In my opinion there is no reason to submit a cache before you place it, none. You can get the waypoint number, you can edit the description, print out test sheets, all without activating the cache.

Edited by martmann
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This is why I think the default on the "Is this cache active?"  should be "NO" instead of yes.

 

Then we'd end up with more and more complaints that the reviewers are dragging their feet rather than approving cache submissions.

Yes but then the inconvenience would be the problem of the careless person, not the innocent cacher.

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A few words in Team ClandestinePenguin's defense. I had tried this cache on the day that it was approved, Sunday. I don't log my DNF's, having assumed that it my old eyes/bad coordinates/lack of patience making me miss the location. Having seen the discussion on our local Yahoo board, I knew that it hadn't been placed yet, so wasn't too hard on myself about missing it, though was a bit burnt up by it not being there at all. The real rub is that the hider had it approved on Sunday, but didn't get around to placing it until Wednesday!

Now that's where I would get steaming mad at the hider! <_<veryangry.gif:P

 

I can sorta see getting the coords, making up the cache page, having it approved nearly instantly then heading out to place the cache and meeting a prospective first-finder on the trail to the cache.

 

Placing the cache 4 days after listing it on the site? Absolutely not!

 

In my area, first finder's have usually visited the cache within the first 2 hours after the cache is listed. Many of the locals will have searched for the cache in the first 4 days, I can't imagine what would happen if they were all "skunked" due to it not being placed yet! I do know that there would be a 100' circle of trampled ground due to people searching for something that isn't there.

I don't even live in an area with a lot of cachers! New Mexico has a low number of geocachers compared to states like Arizona and Texas.

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I had a sort-of-FTF on a cache which was temporarily unavailable when first listed. It was a rather cool virt close to my morning commute, and I couldn't figure out why it would be inactive, so I just stopped by, took a look, and posted a note.

The cache was archived later in the day. Turns out the landowner was having second thoughts about people accessing it after business hours.

Of course I could have tried posting an FTF anyway, but was it really that important?

Another time I FTF'd an ammobox ... only this was an empty ammobox with a note that the owner is still preparing the contents. It was his first hide of course. I posted an FTF log (should have just made it a note), letting other know that it ain't ready yet. But later got 2nd thoughts and changed it. Basically, if a find is fraught with controversy, and there is nothing special about the cache except that it was an FTF, then I don't really want it on my permanent record.

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I am really ticked off by this has this happened to anyone else?

Without thinking about it very much, I can recall a half-dozen times I have searched for caches yet-to-be-placed. I was never angry. It is part of the FTF game.

 

-WR

That's really no reason for somebody to say they have placed a cache when they haven't, which is what they are doing by leaving the "Yes, this cache is currently active." box checked. Some people even think it's OK to do that, for no good reason (there isn't a good reason).

 

But yeah, getting angry doesn't help.

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Well, it would seem that the owner of the cache should add some kind of note to the the logs, maybe it wouldn't kill him to say, sorry, first one, I will do better next time. I just think there should be a requirement that you find at least ten before you hide your first one. If you have never found one how would you know even what it felt like to look for one? I think the worst part is that even now he still hasn't found one and made no notes at all about hiding it three days after listing it.

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I don't log my DNF's, having assumed that it my old eyes/bad coordinates/lack of patience making me miss the location.

 

Not to stray too far off topic, but it's called a Did Not Find, not a Did Not Find Despite My Good Eyes, Good Coordinates and a Plenty of Patience. Cache owners want feedback. Give it to them!

Edited by briansnat
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I want to know how you posted the exact coordinates for the cache if you hadn't hidden it yet and if you went to the hiding spot to get them, why the heck didn't you just leave the cache? <_<

 

I have seen a few logs of cachers finding nothing because it hadn't been hidden yet! :P

 

We always hide the cache, get the coordinates, go home and submit the cache for approval! :blink:

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I think many people feel the approval process is slow enough so they can submit then place. Problem is our approvers have gotten so much on the ball that approval happens pretty darn quickly. Our last one was approved pretty quick even though there was some email exchange back and forth.

 

I think I agree with whoever said it above. The default for the check indicating currently active could be set to unchecked and then add a statement to the effect, "Do not check until the cache is actually in place."

 

Not only would it help with the newbies, but save me from having to uncheck it as I prepare the cache page as I invaribly have several versions before I submit. I don't want Honeychile looking at a work in progress and thinking I've lost my mind!

 

A valid reason for creating the page before placing is as mentioned above, as well--proper labeling of the cache. Could be that folks were mistaking some caches for others before the .1 mile rule was because this site doesn't strongly encourage properly identifying the cache. This should include the waypoint so the cache page is easily found. Can't get a waypoint until you start a cache page. And around around we go...

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I want to know how you posted the exact coordinates for the cache if you hadn't hidden it yet and if you went to the hiding spot to get them, why the heck didn't you just leave the cache?

 

A lot of people scout an area first, looking for a good spot, mark it, then go home and prepare the cache and return with it. This is actually better because you can fit the container and any comoflage to your proposed hiding spot, rather than walking around with an ammo box and saying "now where can I put this thing?"

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I've done it both ways; get it approved first and then plant, and planted then submitted for approval. But since almost all of my traditional hides are way off the

beaten path up the mountain nobody is an rush to go find them. The few serious

cachers we have around here will usually give it a try in about a week after its been posted.

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