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Recently a cacher found A Scouting Goal

 

They posted the following comment.

Thanks for the virtual history lesson. I wish that the scouts were more open to the diversity of the population though. Close mindness ruins a great adventure!

Jeepers & Memphis

Springfield, MO

 

Regardless of your thought about this I don't think that this type of comment should be placed in a log.l I have found several caches that promote a certain religous belief that I find contrary to my beliefs but I have never made comment about it in the logs I have left.

 

I fell that this log violates the guideline for cache placement that states

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, or social agendas may not be listed. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

In this case if the finder does not comply with my request to edit their log would it be unreasonable for me to delete the log?

 

Thanks for your input.

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Whether to delete a log or not is entirely up to you. What I would do is ask them to change it and if they didn't either forget about it or encrypt it. I suppose I would prefer that political views were not posted on logs for my caches, but if they were, I likely wouldn't do more than ask that they be changed and let it go if they were not. I figure that the comment will not really affect others who will likely already agree or disagree with it and will find the cache if they want to regardless of the comment.

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Thanks for the virtual history lesson. I wish that the scouts were more open to the diversity of the population though. Close mindness ruins a great adventure!

Jeepers & Memphis

Springfield, MO

 

I think you should delete the log because of the poor grammar. People without a grasp of english grammer and speling should not be allowed to participate in this sprot.

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...What I would do is ask them to change it and if they didn't either forget about it or encrypt it. ...

What do you have to do to make sure that everyone reads your log entry? Encrypt it!

 

I would not delete the log.

Yes, that is a good point. I suppose the encryption is like a curiosity magnet for some. :D

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Would you black out the paper log too?

I wrote in an online log once that "The cache theme didn't really excite me, I think we are wrong to put up with the undue weight given to religion in scouting "

Nobody paid any attention to this online comment, but what if I expanded the theme a bit more on paper?

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Man I am going back and forth on this one. I think you run the risk of that type of comment anytime a cache placement is tied to anything other than a tree or a bush. On the other hand it is clear up front from the cache description where they are going.

 

Not taking sides on the scouting issue itself but someone could perhaps make a point that the cache itself violates the guidelines you quoted. I am not saying that it does but it can be a two edge sword. And I don't think it would be a real far off point that a person could make. I would say leave the cache and leave the log. I don't see either hurting anything.

 

On a virtual cache I set up at Grants tomb someone placed a rather nasty find log about Grant. I ignored it and let them rant a bit.

I will raise my hand and assume that was my posting. Trust me you have not seen any of my nasty rants on Grant. :D I really do hope it did not offend you, that was not my intent ever. I am very glad you placed a cache there. It is not likely I would have ever gotten there if not for your cache. It is a good cache and I enjoyed it even though I did grumble about it the rest of the day. The grumbling consisted mostly of "Can you believe they built that to him?" Well that sentence is highly edited from my actual comments.

 

But I think the point is the same as above, the cache is part of something that can certainly cause visitors to have strong feelings one way or the other. And I think that is all OK in my book. I take it as showing a little bit about the person that placed the cache and telling me a little about them and what is important to them. And I think that is all part of GeoCaching.

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Man do I feel stupid. But I just gotta ask.

 

What were they refering to? I was in Scouts, we had all kinds of kids. Different colors, different religions. I was a leader when my kid was young. I hadn't changed then. When did scouting change to exclude ethnic or religious groups?

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Man do I feel stupid. But I just gotta ask.

 

What were they refering to? I was in Scouts, we had all kinds of kids. Different colors, different religions. I was a leader when my kid was young. I hadn't changed then. When did scouting change to exclude ethnic or religious groups?

The boy scouts have been accused of banning homosexuals and atheists.

Edited by Stunod
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Thanks for the virtual history lesson. I wish that the scouts were more open to the diversity of the population though. Close mindness ruins a great adventure!

Jeepers & Memphis

Springfield, MO

 

I think you should delete the log because of the poor grammar. People without a grasp of english grammer and speling should not be allowed to participate in this sprot.

I do not think spelling or the correct use of the English language has any bearing on geocaching, as it is an international sport. Speaking of spelling, you may want to check your own post before complaining about others :D

 

As for deleting logs, it is up to cache owner to make the call, as it is their cache. As a cache owner myself, I would, in most cases, first send an email before deleting any logs or notes from my caches.

 

Edit: added quote to add context to my responce

Edited by cache_us_if_you_can
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Would you black out the paper log too?

I wrote in an online log once that "The cache theme didn't really excite me, I think we are wrong to put up with the undue weight given to religion in scouting "

Nobody paid any attention to this online comment, but what if I expanded the theme a bit more on paper?

My paper log has several logs that pertain to this issue. I have never edited it I just didn't feel it was appropriate on the online log.

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Political junk offends me. Getting petty with the logs also offends me. What is worst? Getting petty with the logs.

 

The person that wrote the log has shown themselves to be unworthy of serious consideration. After all, there is a time and place for everything. Politics belongs in the political arena and geocaching belongs in the geocaching arena. This is a game we play for respite from the world. Anyone who can't maintain the division between politics and the courteous play of a game for everyone (even people who like the Boy Scouts), isn't worthy of serious regard. Everyone who reads their silly log will see that.

(IMHO)

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I have been a scouter for about 5 years and have found that scouting actively promotes diversity, so I totally disagree with the comment that was made. Also, if an individual truly believes in diversity and expects their rights and values to be respected, why wouldn't they also respect the rights of those who believe in the values taught by scouting, even if they disagree with certain aspects? Logically, it should work both ways.

 

(Rant over)

 

Anyway, it worked out for the best with the log being edited. I think it would have been the owner's right to delete it if it had not been edited, but that gets pretty ugly. I would have let the log remain if the finder had refused to edit it. (I own a cache with a scouting theme also).

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Man do I feel stupid. But I just gotta ask.

 

What were they refering to? I was in Scouts, we had all kinds of kids. Different colors, different religions. I was a leader when my kid was young. I hadn't changed then. When did scouting change to exclude ethnic or religious groups?

The boy scouts have been accused of banning homosexuals and atheists.

Dang! Guess I'll never become a boy scout then. :o

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The boy scouts have been accused of banning homosexuals and atheists.

 

'Accused' suggests that it might not be true.

 

The Boy Scouts of America has indeed taken the stance that homosexuals and atheists do not belong within scouting (though some troops seem to be ignoring the ruling). At least one Eagle Scout candidate has been punished for refusing to swear an oath to a higher power he did not believe in. He felt it would be dishonest to do so.

 

I'm with the others who point out it could have been much worse, and with the argument that if a single sentence or two stating opinions about the political stance of a site is a violation of the guideline you mention, then so is the cache itself.

 

I'd suggest letting future occurences go.

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"Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, or social agendas may not be listed. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda."

 

This is taken from the guidlines for submitting a cache. I don't see why this shouldn't apply to cache finder's logs.

 

I do it for the sport and the views. I get enough propaganda from the real world. I certainly don't want it coming here.

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Man do I feel stupid. But I just gotta ask.

 

What were they refering to? I was in Scouts, we had all kinds of kids. Different colors, different religions. I was a leader when my kid was young. I hadn't changed then. When did scouting change to exclude ethnic or religious groups?

They were talking about the Boy Scouts being biased against gay people. There were a lot of news reports about this a few years ago because they wouldn't let a gay man be a scoutmaster.

 

<I am NOT trying to start a debate on any of this. I was just answering the question!>

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To answer your question directly and to the point: YES, you CAN delete the log. The question you should have asked is SHOULD you delete the log. I don't think you should delete the log, it would have been best for you to first try and contact them and ask them to edit it. If this is what you did, congradulations. If they did it without being asked, good for them, it shows that they were sensitive to your concerns or had concerns of their own.

 

That being said- I also think you should not have put a link up to the cache in question and should have edited your quote of their post to take out the names of the cachers. That was a worse thing to do than what they logged.

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I ended up getting political on a local virtual. The virtual was at the entrance to the Air Force base I was stationed at for 4 years. What struck me is that despite the whole "We're winning/have won the war" attitude there is more security at that base now than there was during the last Gulf War. A lot more.

 

Such a discrepency between the actions of the military and what it's leaders are telling me disturbed me at a deep level, and this being an election year made it even more disturbing in a way.

 

If I had been asked to edit the logs (or if someone asks me to in the future) I'll edit them with no complaints. But I'd rather edit them after being asked than over edit them myself when it isn't necessary.

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"A mind is like a parachute. It only works when open!"

 

:o I keep mine neatly packed thank you. The last person I saw who always kept their 'mind' open jumped out of an airplane with a ripped parachute full of sticks and dirt and bugs and things and stuff. There might have been a little doggy too. Or maybe it was the guy whimpering as he realized his parachute only works when opened at the appropriate time. Dunno.

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I would also have left the log the way it was. Thanks to Stunod for the reminder. My first reaction was to wonder what race had to do with anything. I had forgotten the stand the scouts had made. Later United Way dropped the scouts from their list of charities for that stand. I dropped the United Way and give directly now.

 

The irony of that log is that they are speaking up for what they believe in. As did the scouts who they are bashing for doing so even as they preach about diversity. That diversity includes differences in morals.

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Thanks for the virtual history lesson. I wish that the scouts were more open to the diversity of the population though. Close mindness ruins a great adventure!

Jeepers & Memphis

Springfield, MO

 

I think you should delete the log because of the poor grammar. People without a grasp of english grammer and speling should not be allowed to participate in this sprot.

I do not think spelling or the correct use of the English language has any bearing on geocaching, as it is an international sport. Speaking of spelling, you may want to check your own post before complaining about others :D

 

As for deleting logs, it is up to cache owner to make the call, as it is their cache. As a cache owner myself, I would, in most cases, first send an email before deleting any logs or notes from my caches.

 

Edit: added quote to add context to my responce

I think buck09's mispellling was intentoinal :o

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There is almost always a double standard in the "im free to express my opinion" issue. I am not a christian but respect others if that is their belief. It has always irritated me when any group of people demand respect but dont give it.

 

Live and let live. Dont sweat the small stuff.

 

I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it. Thats something my father said to me many many years ago. I've never forgotten that one simple lesson.

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It doesn't really sound like he is saying anything offensive at all. Close mindedness DOES hurt the world. It breeds racism, and hate, and a lack of tolerance.

 

What close mindedness is he talking about specifically? The only thing I can think of is the whole "gay scoutmaster" controversy.

 

I personally, do not like people pushing their religion on anyone. I have come across 2 pieces of "religious propaganda" that I have removed from the cache. I have also posted in the log that this sort of thing does not belong in a geocache. If it's not religious though, and he's just expressing his opinion, I don't think it's a big deal.

 

I do see that he changed his log though...

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We're winning/have won the war" attitude there is more security at that base now than there was during the last Gulf War. A lot more.

 

Such a discrepency between the actions of the military and what it's leaders are telling me disturbed me at a deep level, and this being an election year made it even more disturbing in a way.

 

I think a little event happened on our soil between the two gulf wars that changed the way we look at security.

 

I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it. Thats something my father said to me many many years ago.

 

Your father was Voltaire? :o

Edited by briansnat
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SBPhishy - While I wouldn't leave religious materials in a cache, don't you think that by removing them you are pushing your either 1) lack of religion or 2) pushing down a religion different from yours by removing the items? Can people not think for themselves and decide what is right and wrong? Seems pretty close-minded to me.

 

Intolerance is seldom seen as intolerance by intoleree.

 

I'm going to get off my soapbox now, as this is supposed to be a fun forum. I've had more than enough of these brick-wall debates elsewhere on the internet.

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