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Caching In Pa State Game Lands


PSUPAUL

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This email was just forwarded to me by a State Game Lands employee.

 

Paul, ***** just received this email from the Game Commission. Really, it is

not a joke. Thanks for coming the other night! *****

 

>

>

> To All:

> Just so this does not become an on-slaught of emails back and forth ad

nauseam, the decision has been made that geo-caching will not be allowed on

game lands. This will now be the state-wide policy and all employees will

adhere to it. When found, geocaches will be removed. Geocachers will be

given a warning, unless you know for a fact that they have been either

warned or advised of the restriction in the past. If asked, all employees

are to respond that geocaching is not allowed on state game lands. I hope

that this removes all uncertainty as to how to deal with geocaching on Game

Lands. We all have better things to do with our time than to debate the

issue on email. The decision has been made.

 

 

I hope either this is false or we can reverse this decision. We have set a great relationship with the PA DCNR which covers State Parks and State Forests, how do we appeal this decision to the State Game Commision?

 

*Names removed at poster's request

Edited by NJ Admin
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NNNOOOOOOOO!!!!! :):D:lol::lol::lol::lol: Some of the best caches are on the game lands. They have some of the best trails, and I love those areas. Not good, not good, not good!! ok, I took a breath and composed myself. Is there a reason why? Is there an appeals process? How can I help? I don't want the game lands to become off limits. How comes you can kill defenseless animals on these grounds, but not look for ammo cans? ok, need another deep breath. What are the chances that this is a hoax? Is your source reliable? Sorry, too many questions, not enough answers

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I love the language in that e-mail,

"Just so this does not become an on-slaught of emails back and forth ad nauseam, the decision has been made that geo-caching will not be allowed on game lands."
And
"We all have better things to do with our time than to debate the issue on email. The decision has been made."

Who is the author of the e-mail?

 

I take it that there is still internal debate otherwise they would not have had to phrase it like this. I agree with Miss Jenn, who is the point of contact at State Game Lands. If DCNR can create a working policy what is the problem with State Game Lands doing the same. We should also track down the people who are employed by the State Game lands and see who is in favor of Geocaching

 

Makes me want to go out during hunting season and disrupt things for the hunters.

Edited by magellan315
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Please do not be too alarmed at this e-mail. I have corresponded privately with geocachers about this issue. PSUPaul, does the e-mail originate from an official State Game Commission e-mail address? Does the person give his real name and other contact information? If so, please forward the e-mail to me.

 

Repeated inquiries to state game commission offices (the last one within the past couple of weeks) have confirmed that geocaching is permitted in the gamelands they manage, provided that the natural environment is not disturbed. Perhaps those folks didn't get the memo.

Edited by Keystone Approver
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Everyone hold your horses a minute! Don't jump to any conclusions.

 

I am attempting to find out if this is real or not. We need some names in the PGC to follow up with. I already e-mailed the originator of this thread in an attempt to get more information.

 

I work for a sister agency...The PA Fish and Boat Commission, and I will attempt to make the appropriate contacts if this turns out to be plausiable. In the meantime...don't go firing off a bunch of angry e-mails to their website.

 

Keep in mind that lands owned by the PFC and the PFBC are purchased with dollars from hunters and fisherman only. THESE AGENCIES ARE NOT FUNDED WITH GENERAL TAX DOLLARS! Lands that they purchase are managed for the sole purpose of providing hunting and fishing opportunities. With that being said, they do understand that their lands are used for "other" activities besides hunting and fishing. Their regulations for these lands are designed and develop to maintain the primary purposes of the lands. Non-traditional activities that occur are pretty much ignored until something is brought to their attention. I suspect that is what happened here. Being a small agency...the simple answer is always no.

 

If this is true, it does not mean all is lost. Horseback riding, and mountain biking are already allowable, regulated activities on State Game Lands. Hopefully, if/when the opportunity presents itself, we can work out acceptable regualations for geocaching. Our history with DCNR will definatly help. But remember, the PGC focus their efforts on hunters and trappers with everyone else having a lower priority.

 

Sorry to be...sobering, but we need to approach this one cautiously.

 

Salvelinus

 

Edit: Looks like approver and I were typing at the same time. He's the man with his thumb closest to this issue. Thank you again Approver!

 

But please keep in mind how the PFBC and the PGC view uses of their lands when you are geocaching there. Your activities are not their primary priority...hunting and fishing are. It helps if you can think of yourself as a welcome guest when visiting those areas.

Edited by Salvelinus
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Everyone hold your horses a minute!  Don't jump to any conclusions.

- SNIP -

Sorry to be...sobering, but we need to approach this one cautiously.

PSUPaul, does the e-mail originate from an official State Game Commission e-mail address? Does the person give his real name and other contact information?

 

Right. This is why I think we need a S.P.O.C.

:lol:

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Everyone hold your horses a minute!  Don't jump to any conclusions.

- SNIP -

Sorry to be...sobering, but we need to approach this one cautiously.

PSUPaul, does the e-mail originate from an official State Game Commission e-mail address? Does the person give his real name and other contact information?

 

Right. This is why I think we need a S.P.O.C.

:lol:

Your absolutly right Jenn! It seems as if Approver is already on it. He's so good! :lol:

 

Approver: I'm willing to meet, discuss, share my thoughts, do a show and tell....anything with the PGC if necessary or needed.

 

Salvelinus

Edited by Salvelinus
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I am attempting to find out the originator of the original email. At this time I would rather not disclose my friends name. If anyone else has any friends maybe they can confirm. I truly hope I am Chicken Little or at least that we can meet with them and change their minds.

 

If it is false I truly appologize for getting everyone worked up, as I am. But knowing my friends I doubt they would have faked the email to me. As long as the email to me is not a hoax then it arived on my friends PA GC email system. I will post any updates I receive. Hopefully someone else can look for independent verification.

 

Thanks

Edited by PSUPAUL
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On a local level when I was a deputy for the PFBC and patrolled with PGC we were just happy to see people getting other uses out of State Game lands when it was not hunting season. I don't have any reason to believe that a reasonable solution will become of this if this even becomes an issue. Thanks Salvelines for offering your help. It may help someday that you are employed by the state and you are located right where the decisions will be made. :lol:

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After re-reading this post it seems they only want virtuals and consider traditionals the same as littering.

 

Another cacher sent this email to the Game Commission

 

Hi, I just received an e-mail that concerned me very much. I have been an avid hunter for 14 years and an outdoorsman all my life. I am involved with an organization called "Geocaching", and I've heard that you will no longer allow this on SGL's. I hope that this is only a rumor. I know myself and others that do this sport are all outdoor enthusiasts and do not damage their land. Most of us carry trash bags and remove garbage from these areas. I can't imagine that the State would not support people making public lands a better and cleaner place. Please respond to let me know if this is your new policy.

 

The response was as follows:

 

We do not have regulations regarding geo caching, per se. However, there are several regulations regarding State Game Lands use, which I will provide at the end of this e-mail. My main advice to you at this point would be to make the "treasurers" that geo cachers are seeking for on State Game Lands be points of interest or other natural or scenic views. You are not permitted to dig holes, cut or destroy vegetation or litter (which would preclude leaving tangible items for others to find).

 

Also, as you will see from the SGL regs that follow, there are certain times of the year -- primarily the hunting seasons -- in which visitors to SGLs must wear the appropriate amount of blaze orange for obvious reasons

 

Here are the two sections of the Game Commission regulations that you need to be aware of:

 

§ 135.2. Unlawful actions.

 

In addition to the prohibitions in the act on lands, waters or buildings under Commission ownership, lease or jurisdiction, it is unlawful, except with the permission of the person in charge of the lands, to:

 

(1) Camp or use campsites.

 

(2) Plant, gather, cut, dig, remove or otherwise injure plants or parts thereof, including trees, shrubs, vines, flowering plants, cultivated crops, mushrooms and fruits of berry-producing plants.

 

(3) Travel on lands by means of vehicle or conveyance propelled by motorized power. This prohibition does not include the travel by individuals permanently confined to a wheelchair propelled by electric power obtained from batteries. Individuals desiring to hunt from an electric powered wheelchair shall have a disabled person permit under section 2923 of the act (relating to disabled person permits).

 

(4) Swim in a dam, pond, lake or stream.

 

(5) Injure, destroy or cause damage to property-real, personal or mixed.

 

(6) Remove or attempt to remove any manmade or natural object except wildlife and fish lawfully taken during the open season. Objects which may not be removed include animals, rocks, minerals, sand and historical or archaeological artifacts.

 

(7) Participate in, become a part of, contribute to or engage in disorderly conduct as defined in 18 Pa.C.S. § § 5503 and 5505 (relating to disorderly conduct; and public drunkenness).

 

(8) Kindle, use or maintain an open fire.

 

(9) Travel on roads open to vehicular travel with vehicle or conveyance propelled by motorized power which is not licensed or authorized for operation on a public highway under 75 Pa.C.S. (relating to the Vehicle Code).

 

(10) Violate, fail or neglect to follow instructions posted on signs authorized by the Director.

 

(11) Travel by mechanical or motorized conveyance or ride animals on newly constructed, seeded or planted roads, or other areas, when posted against the travel.

 

§ 135.41. State game lands.

 

(a) Restrictions limited. The following exceptions to § 135.2 (relating to unlawful actions) pertain to lands and waters designated as State game lands:

 

(1) Mushrooms and fruits of berry-producing plants may be picked.

 

(2) Small open fires for cooking or warming purposes are permitted only at places where adequate precautions are taken to prevent the spread of fire which may damage adjacent areas and shall be attended at all times and completely extinguished before leaving the site of the fire. Open fires are prohibited when the fire index rating used by the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, is high, very high or extreme. A person causing a wildfire, in addition to possible criminal penalty, is liable for all damages, cost of extinguishing and fines.

 

(3) Snowmobiles, as defined in 75 Pa.C.S. § 7702 (relating to definitions) may be driven beginning on the third Sunday in January through April 1 on designated areas, roads and trails marked with appropriate signs, so long as snowmobiles are registered and display valid registration decal as required under 75 Pa.C.S. § § 7711.1 and 7711.2 (relating to registration of snowmobile or ATV; and limited registration of snowmobile or ATV).

 

(:lol: Closure of game lands.

 

(1) When the threat of forest fires exists, the Director has emergency authority to restrict the use of smoking materials on State game lands or to close State game lands to hunting, trapping, fishing, recreational use and other activity which may be or become detrimental to those lands or the flora or fauna thereon until the Director removes the restrictions. Emergency restrictions or closures will be announced to the news media.

 

(2) The Director has the authority to close State game lands or portions thereof, to recreational or other uses, when the specified uses may be or have become detrimental to those lands or the flora or fauna thereon, or where the uses conflict with legal hunting, furtaking or fishing activities or the Commission's management or administration of State game lands. The closure may be seasonal or year-round and shall remain in effect until the Director removes the restrictions.

 

(3) It is unlawful to violate restrictions or closure placed on these lands by the Director.

 

© Additional prohibitions. In addition to the prohibitions contained in the act pertaining to State game lands and § 135.2, except with the written permission of the Director, it is unlawful to:

 

(1) Contaminate, pollute or degrade groundwaters or surface waters or any waterways.

 

(2) Graze or permit the grazing of livestock, place or maintain beehives or beekeeping apparatus.

 

(3) Solicit, or place advertisements, signs or posters.

 

(4) Ride a nonmotorized vehicle, conveyance or animal, except on roads normally open to public travel, or designated routes as posted, or while lawfully engaged in hunting, trapping or fishing.

 

(5) Ride a nonmotorized vehicle, conveyance or animal from the last Saturday in September until the third Saturday in January, and before 1 p.m. from the second Saturday in April through the last Saturday in May inclusive, except on Sundays or while lawfully engaged in hunting, trapping or fishing.

 

(6) Ride a nonmotorized vehicle, conveyance or animal on roads open to foot travel only.

 

(7) Drive motor vehicles with or without attachments having a registered gross vehicle weight in excess of 12,000 pounds.

 

(8) Use boats propelled by a motor. Battery powered electric motors may be used on waterways unless posted otherwise.

 

(9) Consume, possess or transport any alcohol, liquor, beer, malt or brewed alcoholic beverage.

 

(10) Use or possess any controlled substance as defined or classified under The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act (35 P. S. § § 780-101-780-143).

 

(11) Occupy, use or construct, place or maintain structures or other tangible property, except that portable hunting blinds or stands may be used, provided no visible damage is caused to trees.

 

(12) Feed wildlife or lay or place any food, fruit, hay, grain, chemical, salt or other minerals.

 

(13) Release domestic animals, captive bred or captive raised game or wildlife.

 

(14) Operate a motor vehicle in willful and wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property or in excess of posted speed limits, or where no speed limit is posted, in excess of 25 miles per hour.

 

(15) Target shoot with firearms, bows and arrows or devices capable of launching projectiles in a manner that could cause injury to persons or property, or on areas posted closed to those activities.

 

(16) Except as provided in Subchapter J (relating to shooting ranges), discharge any firearm, bow and arrow, or device capable of launching projectiles that is not a lawful device to hunt game or wildlife.

 

(17) Engage in an activity or event involving more than ten persons, which may conflict with the intended purposes or uses as defined in section 722 of the act (relating to use of property), or poses a potential environmental or safety problem.

 

(18) Sell, distribute, deliver, service, guide or rent any equipment, material or commodity or otherwise transact or engage in any commercial activity. Commercial activity is any activity in which a person directly or indirectly accepts consideration of value as compensation for the provision of goods or services, including transportation.

 

(19) Use State game lands for any personal, organizational or commercial purpose other than the intended use as defined in section 722 of the act.

 

(20) Operate under authority of a contract, lease, agreement or permit and fail to abide by the terms and conditions contained in the contract, lease, agreement or permit.

 

(21) Except on Sundays, be present on State game lands from November 15 through December 15 inclusive when not engaged in lawful hunting or trapping and fail to wear a minimum of 250 square inches of daylight fluorescent orange-colored material on the head, chest and back combined or, in lieu thereof, a hat of the same colored material. The material shall be worn so it is visible in a 360° arc. Persons using shooting ranges are exempted from this requirement.

 

 

Sorry for the length of the post.

 

edit after I read it more closely.

Edited by PSUPAUL
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Everyone hold your horses a minute!  Don't jump to any conclusions.

- SNIP -

Sorry to be...sobering, but we need to approach this one cautiously.

PSUPaul, does the e-mail originate from an official State Game Commission e-mail address? Does the person give his real name and other contact information?

 

Right. This is why I think we need a S.P.O.C.

:lol:

Your absolutly right Jenn! It seems as if Approver is already on it. He's so good! :lol:

 

Approver: I'm willing to meet, discuss, share my thoughts, do a show and tell....anything with the PGC if necessary or needed.

 

Salvelinus

Thanks for your efforts Salvelinus....(I know you're swamped this week). Let us know how things turn out. Hopefully this isn't true, and we'll be able to keep the caches in these areas active. :lol:

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The response was as follows:

 

We do not have regulations regarding geo caching, per se. However, there are several regulations regarding State Game Lands use, which I will provide at the end of this e-mail. My main advice to you at this point would be to make the "treasurers" that geo cachers are seeking for on State Game Lands be points of interest or other natural or scenic views. You are not permitted to dig holes, cut or destroy vegetation or litter (which would preclude leaving tangible items for others to find).

 

A physical geocache is not litter for these reasons...and by Websters defination.

 

A. They are not items of rufuse

 

B. They are not discarded property randomly scattered about.

 

If the DCNR does not consider them litter, how can the PGC? However, their rules on digging or cutting brush are very valid. As long as your cache placement does not involve digging a hole or cutting brush or trees. I see their regulations as ok and caching friendly.

 

It seems to me that whoever is sending you these e-mails has mis-interpreted their own regulations or does not understand what geocaching is. Probably both.

 

Salvelinus

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[A physical geocache is not litter for these reasons...and by Websters defination.

 

A. They are not items of rufuse

 

B. They are not discarded property randomly scattered about.

 

If the DCNR does not consider them litter, how can the PGC? However, their rules on digging or cutting brush are very valid. As long as your cache placement does not involve digging a hole or cutting brush or trees. I see their regulations as ok and caching friendly.

 

It seems to me that whoever is sending you these e-mails has mis-interpreted their own regulations or does not understand what geocaching is. Probably both.

 

Salvelinus

First of all, you are preaching to the choir, but we need to speak to the PGC. Secondly these came from two different people. My original post was a response to an email I received from a friend that works for the PGC. After my post another geocacher sent an email to the GC and received the long response where they were interpreting their own regulations. I think we have an issue but I am sure the KA, with his great contacts, can get us over this hurdle.

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As Salvelinus has a level of acces that most of us do not I am going to give him time to work his magic. Based on the second e-mail that was sent by the SGC, I would still like to know who this person is.

 

The e-mail they sent managed to include every regulation regarding land use practices for the SGC, not just those applicable to us.

 

You are not permitted to dig holes, cut or destroy vegetation or litter (which would preclude leaving tangible items for others to find).

 

The above qoute alone is reason enough for all of us to wait for Salvelinus to come up with a contact who is more open. Who ever sent the e-mail, their knowledge of Geocaching is limited. We don't dig holes, cut vegetation, or litter(its not abandoned property, and if they can show that the surronding vegetation is being destroyed the cache be removed.

 

Clearly we need to find someone at the SGC who can work with us, if DCNR can find an acceptable way to work with us so can they. All they reall have to do is implement the DCNR policy.

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As Salvelinus has a level of acces that most of us do not I am going to give him time to work his magic. Based on the second e-mail that was sent by the SGC, I would still like to know who this person is.

 

The e-mail they sent managed to include every regulation regarding land use practices for the SGC, not just those applicable to us.

 

You are not permitted to dig holes, cut or destroy vegetation or litter (which would preclude leaving tangible items for others to find).

 

The above qoute alone is reason enough for all of us to wait for Salvelinus to come up with a contact who is more open. Who ever sent the e-mail, their knowledge of Geocaching is limited. We don't dig holes, cut vegetation, or litter(its not abandoned property, and if they can show that the surronding vegetation is being destroyed the cache be removed.

 

Clearly we need to find someone at the SGC who can work with us, if DCNR can find an acceptable way to work with us so can they. All they reall have to do is implement the DCNR policy.

As PSUPaul mentioned. I am respectively letting Keystone Approver work this one first. He already has made previous contacts and is on top of things.

 

I will gladly become more involved when Keystone Approver request any assistance I can offer. All of this may be nothing more than a few PGC employees mis-interpreting their own regualtions and how they relate to geocaching. In my opinion, at this point, no geocacher should be contacting the PGC except Approver.

 

My apologies to PSUPaul. I was only pointing out the mis-interpretation of Game Lands regulations about littering in the second e-mail, as it related to geocaching. I did not assume that you were in agreement with their interpretation. I apologize if my response sounded as such. I actually felt the second e-mail was mostly positive and I appreciated seeing the information.

 

BTW, if your curious about regulations on PA Fish and Boat property. As long as the caches you place don't cause a major public problem, you may use PA Fish and Boat owned and controlled property. Just be sure that what you do is not in violation of the posted regulations. Each property has slightly different regs, but you can search HERE for more information or to get general PFBC property regulations.

 

If you are thinking of a cache on PA Fish and Boat Property feel free to e-mail me about potential problems with it.

 

Salvelinus

Edited by Salvelinus
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I wonder if it would be useful to have a separate thread on this topic, so as not to muddy the waters?

(pun intended)

regulations on PA Fish and Boat property. As long as the caches you place don't cause a major public problem, you may use PA Fish and Boat owned and controlled property. Just be sure that what you do is not in violation of the posted regulations. Each property has slightly different regs, but you can search HERE for more information or to get general PFBC property regulations. Sorry...but specific pages on the site refer you back to the main page when cut and pasted. If you buy a fishing license, the regs are in your summary book.

 

If you are thinking of a cache on PA Fish and Boat Property feel free to e-mail me about potential problems with it.

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If this isn't a joke, it should be. The PGC quite obviously doesn't have the resources to enforce their long list of rules. I often refer to State Gamelands as "lawless tribal areas" where just about anything goes. The irony here is that I am aware of their rules and I obey them. I expect that geocachers hunting my caches would also obey ALL of their rules and I trust that they do. IF my caches could be called litter then I would be guilty of some slight infraction on this score but it does not compare with the blatant violations of their rules that I witness whenever I venture into Pennsylvania State Gamelands. They need to focus their enfocement efforts elsewhere and not concern themselves with a few boxes of toys in the woods.

 

I will lose seven of my best geocaches if the PGC can convice geocaching.com that caches in State Gamelands should no longer be listed. If the website caves easily to these pseudo-bureaucrats, it will be high time to seek out other listing options.

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My apologies to PSUPaul.  I was only pointing out the mis-interpretation of Game Lands regulations about littering in the second e-mail, as it related to geocaching.  I did not assume that you were in agreement with their interpretation.  I apologize if my response sounded as such.  I actually felt the second e-mail was mostly positive and I appreciated seeing the information.

 

Salvelinus

Sorry if I seemed jumpy Salvelinus, I just wanted it clear that they were two seperate emails to two different people. The second one was a response from PGCCOMMENTS@STATE.PA.US to Team WBFire. He just asked me to forward and post it. No apology necessary.

 

edit- I can never seem to type right the first time!

Edited by PSUPAUL
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I wonder if it would be useful to have a separate thread on this topic, so as not to muddy the waters?

(pun intended)

regulations on PA Fish and Boat property. As long as the caches you place don't cause a major public problem, you may use PA Fish and Boat owned and controlled property. Just be sure that what you do is not in violation of the posted regulations. Each property has slightly different regs, but you can search HERE for more information or to get general PFBC property regulations. Sorry...but specific pages on the site refer you back to the main page when cut and pasted. If you buy a fishing license, the regs are in your summary book.

 

If you are thinking of a cache on PA Fish and Boat Property feel free to e-mail me about potential problems with it.

Two threads may be a bit overkill. There is not much to really say on PFBC lands and losing them is a small loss for geocachers compared to Game Lands. If the Game Commission does not prohibit geocaching...the Fish and Boat Commission will not either.

 

I offered the information about PFBC property in case anyone was curious. Think of them as one in the same as far as this thread is concerned.

:(

 

Salvelinus

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How comes you can kill defenseless animals on these grounds, but not look for ammo cans?

 

Cause the hunters pay for that right and we don't??

 

Maybe the gameland folks would be happy to barter some caching permits: one permit for each bag of trash brought in.

 

I really hope this is a miscommunication because if it isn't I lose both of my "real" caches.

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How comes you can kill defenseless animals on these grounds, but not look for ammo cans?

 

Cause the hunters pay for that right and we don't??

 

I paid your share for this year. I spent over $100 on fishing and hunting licenses this year

I paid too and didn't even get to go hunting because I had to go to Baghdad. SGL 93 would be a great place to put some caches too. This is by the DuBois Reservoir (15801). Grizz 2 is up close to the same area. That is a nice cache. I can't see how the PGC can do this. You can do all kinds of outdoor activities in the SGLs.

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Interesting...

 

Perhaps someday there will be a state geocaching commission that will exercise sovereignty over geocaches everywhere in the state just like wild game... There will be cache hunting licenses... and a cache hunting season... and bag limits... CCCooperAgency and SBUX will be arrested for poaching... We will all have to pay for various cache hunting licenses but it won't be all bad since the commission will use a portion of the proceeds to purchase State Cache Lands... There will be strict requlations on State Cache Lands which will prohibit the walking of dogs or the playing of frisbee by non-cachers and other assorted muggles... Ironically, State Cache Lands #001 will be in Philadelphia but nobody will ever go there because there are no cachers in Philly...

Edited by Quest Master
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Maybe the gameland folks would be happy to barter some caching permits: one permit for each bag of trash brought in.

A gamelands CITO is not a bad idea. Showing up at a regional office with bags of gamelands trash would open some eyes. I picked up at least 10 discharged shotgun shells this weekend in a State Park!

 

Salvelinus

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OK, I have the original email that caused me to start this posting. It was sent by someone who works in the Northeast regional office of the PA Game Commission. My friends boss as well as the Deputy Executive Director of that region were on the CC list. I will forward this email to KA and Salvelinus but I would prefer to not post it in it's entirety here.

 

At least as far as the Northeast is concerned this is not a joke.

 

edit- another stupid typo!

Edited by PSUPAUL
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How would they find the caches? I think they'd have to visit our website and head out with their GPS's, right? :D That would be interesting to see as it is. Maybe I could get them to locate a certain No Find I've been looking for for awhile. Oh well...I'm sure the powers that be will clear things up. In the meantime, I'm gonna grab all the SGL caches I can find. :P

Until next time...

 

Trusty

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This really stinks instead of worrying about some geocaches on SGL land their time would be better spent taking care of the dumping problems. I guess geocaching would be an easier target. Hopefully they will come to their senses and we can help them with that by doing a CITO.

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Please do not be too alarmed at this e-mail. I have corresponded privately with geocachers about this issue. PSUPaul, does the e-mail originate from an official State Game Commission e-mail address? Does the person give his real name and other contact information? If so, please forward the e-mail to me.

 

Repeated inquiries to state game commission offices (the last one within the past couple of weeks) have confirmed that geocaching is permitted in the gamelands they manage, provided that the natural environment is not disturbed. Perhaps those folks didn't get the memo.

Keystone Approver,

 

Have you heard of anything back from the state game commission offices about this yet?

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I have not yet contacted the PA Game Commission. I am first checking to see whether Groundspeak has received any official communication from that agency which would prohibit us from listing new caches hidden in State Gamelands. When I hear back on that question, which I posed last week, I will post again here with further thoughts about how we ought to proceed in addressing this issue.

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I have not yet heard back anything from Groundspeak in response to two or three inquiries I've made. So, I'm assuming that they have NOT received official notice of any ban on geocaching. If they did, Groundspeak would surely pass the information along to me.

 

Information has come to my attention which leads me to believe that this is not an issue that is isolated to just the Northeast Region of the PGC, although there are good grounds for believing that discussions on banning geocaching may have originated there.

 

I am presently corresponding with a number of geocachers to discuss how to proceed. I will continue to post updates here as appropriate. In the meantime, if you are the owner of one or more caches in a State Gameland, and are willing to meet or correspond with the regional Pennsylvania Game Commission office in your part of the state as part of a lobbying effort, please get in touch with me if you have not already done so. Send me an e-mail through my profile or by writing keystoneapprover at yahoo dot com.

 

EDIT: It would help me tremendously when you write to me, if you could include the following information in your e-mail:

1. The names and GC numbers of the caches you own, which are located in a State Gameland.

2. The PGC Region in which your gamelands caches are located.

3. Whether you've previously had any discussions with a representative of the PGC about your cache (formal or informal permission inquiry, friendly chat while hunting deer and you mentioned your geocache to the game officer, etc.).

Edited by Keystone Approver
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I stopped into my district office to today, and they confirmed that the BAN is in effect, and that it's state wide....

 

he said that it comes from ABOVE, and maybe writing the office of Land management to have they adopt the DCNR or similiar policy may have some benefit to us.

 

Their hands are tied in this manner

 

Robert

 

Geo-packrat

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Well, I just received this e-mail from the PGC regarding this this issue: It follows.............

 

We do not have regulations regarding geo caching, per se. However, there are several regulations regarding State Game Lands use, which I will provide at the end of this e-mail. My main advice to you at this point would be to make the "treasures" that geo cachers are seeking for on State Game Lands be points of interest or other natural or scenic views, since you are not permitted to dig holes or cut or destroy vegetation. Any cache you leave behind may not be left there permanently and, as wildlife will investigate objects, please do not use anything that may cause injury or death of wildlife. Also, when deciding what type of storage container to leave as your cache, please be aware that certain wildlife, such as porcupines, will consume plastic and aluminum.

 

Also, as you will see from the SGL regs that follow, there are certain times of the year -- primarily the hunting seasons -- in which visitors to SGLs must wear the appropriate amount of blaze orange for obvious reasons

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Thanks, GPR/Retphoto for what is now the fourth confirmation I've received about a ban on geocaching in State Gamelands, as a matter of internal PGC policy. The Game Commission has not, however, communicated anything directly to Groundspeak. Since my last post, I did receive from Groundspeak an e-mail sent to them by another State agency that *does* permit geocaching, which made reference to the PGC's new policy (this was the third piece of evidence).

 

I am corresponding offline with a number of geocachers who are concerned about this issue, including several who have posted to this topic, and I did put out the request for further assistance a couple posts up. If you would like to participate in a lobbying effort and have not yet written to me, please do so and your name will be added to a mailing list.

 

The general outline of our plan for talking to the PGC about this will be presented here in the near future once it's been discussed among the group of people willing to volunteer to help carry out that plan. I hope that everyone will understand that not every single detail of this discussion is being posted here in a public forum.

 

Also, I am compiling for my personal reference a list of all geocaches in State Gamelands and, while I'm at it, parallel lists for caches placed *with permission* in State Parks and State Forests under the permit system developed by our friends at the Pennsylvania DCNR. This information is very interesting and I will share some of it in summary form when my lists are finished. The information will also be helpful in any lobbying efforts.

 

May I ask everyone to refrain from writing individual angry hate mails to the Game Commission, in deference to the more formal lobbying effort that is being put together. Obviously, I have no control over your right to free expression to representatives of the government we elected. But I do note from prior experience that better results are usually obtained through speaking with a united voice. Several people may be speaking with PGC officials at various levels and with other representatives of government, but it will be helpful if we all are singing on-key with the same lyrics.

 

Thanks!

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It seems to me reading the post by Rahj implies that the PGC would prefer virtuals, but they are not precluding the placement of “environmentally friendly” physical caches as long as there is a “shelf life” of some to be determined period. I think that this is positive and a good position to lobby from. I was planning a gameland cache and would be interested in staying in the loop.

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