Plans For Caching, And The Price Of Gas.

March 28, 2004

I started Caching last summer, and found most of the caches near my home. I was anxiously awaiting the return of good weather, planning on venturing further away for caching this summer. With the rising gas prices, it's looking like that isn't going to happen. :rolleyes:

Is the high price of gas effecting anyone elses Geocacaching plans?

March 28, 2004

Not yet. Still have too many within a 50 mile radius to find before I will have to drive any distances.

2.7k · March 28, 2004

Not me. I've been dying this winter from not hiking.

Good for me (I guess) that I work an hour from my home, so I can find caches after work that are not near my house.

2.6k · March 28, 2004

Is the high price of gas effecting anyone elses Geocacaching plans?

Yes it is. Today's cheapest gas price in my town converted to US units makes $4,85 for a gallon. I tend to mix caching and other trips (i.e. search geocaches while I must drive to that area anyway), and also search more than one cache at the same trip so the gas bill divides better.

I also appreciate parking coordinates or instructions to drive to a suitable parking spot. I don't see much challenge in unnecesary cruising around the cache area trying to find a spot with smallest walking distance.

March 28, 2004

Nope. Gotta cache!

Rich

March 28, 2004

I'm looking into the smaller hyrid SUV's on and coming on the market... unfortunately I'll be waiting for 2005 to buy. Honestly, if more people would start demanding higher mpg from both the gov't and the car makers, it would happen. It's too easy to not think about when gas is cheap, and now that we are in a cycle where we are starting to climb in price (though not nearly to the level of our Canadian and European friends), people will start to think. But I'm still seeing the huge (read Hummer, Denali, Mountaineer, Yukon, Luxury Truck) vehicles being marketed as "family" and "urban" vehicles. Then I see them driven with only one or two occupants, usually older, non-children carrying. How many of these 4 wheel drive, gas slurping behemoths will ever have their tires off the macadam? If they can be marketed as status cars, why don't we see a corresponding manufacturer marketing and governmental push for less oil-consuming vehicles? All around, alternative technologies will help, not only now, but in the distant future -- oil depletion, greenhouse effect, air pollution...but we have to start seeing real a R&D effort to make it happen.

Just a note: I now drive a 1996 Ford Explorer, 2 wheel drive, 6 cylinder by choice, that I bought new to accomodate my wife, two growing boys and an overweight but extremenly lovable golden retriever. I've hauled boats and kayaks, gone onto real backcountry roads, and negotiated snow in Maryland (a pittance) and in Upstate NY (not a pittance). I have no desire to take it "off road"; rather if I want to get to the top of the cliff to see the view in the advertising campaign, I'll shoulder my pack and walk there. It has 170,000 miles on it, is well-maintained and gets between 20-22 mpg.

March 28, 2004

Warning! Paranoid black helicopter stuff follows:

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

March 28, 2004

If I have to drive a long distance to cache I try to head for a cache-dense area. So I may drive and hour and a half to get to an area where the caches are 15 minutes apart.

I start early in the morning (around dawn) and try to get as many as I can in the area before heading home.

Of course sometimes, like right now, I get a late start and am only going to be able to get to a couple before I have to be someplace else. But that other thing is in the area of the caches so I'd be making the drive anyway.

Edited because it's hard to type while a cat is licking and bumping your hand and I hit the wrong key.

Edited March 28, 2004 by RichardMoore

March 28, 2004

The gas prices in my area are probably some of the lower in the country and it's still going to effect caching, well any extra activities really, if it keeps climbing at the rate it's going. It's high time for something to be done about it. They can't eat sand over there.

Nick T

March 28, 2004

So far it has not affected my cache hunting. I look at it this way though, 25.00 worth of gas gives me an all day activity. A round of golf or a trip to the local movie theater would cost me much more. :rolleyes: Oh gas is around 1.71 per gallon here.

March 28, 2004

Until I go broke, completely broke - gas prices are not a concern. I do try to add a cache trip to a fishing trip or shopping trip if I can, though.

2.5k · March 28, 2004

Warning! Paranoid black helicopter stuff follows:

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

Black helicopters indeed. The whole business about Peak Oil is based on skewed data.

What is "Peak Oil"?

All oil production follows a bell curve, whether in an individual field or on the planet as a whole.

The "bell curve" they use is based on data starting at zero oil production and ending with zero oil production, and finding a peak in the middle. You can find this data here

Nobody really knows when oil production will end at zero, so to make his point, the author makes a bell curve going from 5000 years in the past to 5000 years in the future, making the time period now appear as a humongous spike on the bell curve (see figure 13).

Since all of the arguments about Peak Oil is based on this bell curve, you can see why you should take this all with a grain of salt.

The reason gas prices are high is not from a lack of oil. It is from a lack of refineries that are able to turn the oil into gasoline.

Edit:typo

Edited March 28, 2004 by cachew nut

March 28, 2004

Nope. I do not see the gas prices improving anytime soon and I can't just sit around at home so I pay to play .

March 28, 2004

I can cram a weekends worth of camping and geocaching gear in/on my bike and get 44 mpg. I gotta go plan a road trip... :rolleyes:

March 28, 2004

Warning! Paranoid black helicopter stuff follows:

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

Black helicopters indeed. The whole business about Peak Oil is based on skewed data.

What is "Peak Oil"?

All oil production follows a bell curve, whether in an individual field or on the planet as a whole.

The "bell curve" they use is based on data starting at zero oil production and ending with zero oil production, and finding a peak in the middle. You can find this data here

Nobody really knows when oil production will end at zero, so to make his point, the author makes a bell curve going from 5000 years in the past to 5000 years in the future, making the time period now appear as a humongous spike on the bell curve (see figure 13).

Since all of the arguments about Peak Oil is based on this bell curve, you can see why you should take this all with a grain of salt.

The reason gas prices are high is not from a lack of oil. It is from a lack of refineries that are able to turn the oil into gasoline.

Edit:typo

Can I ask for your credentials on this? Because Matthew Simmons, energy advisor to George Bush and CEO of the largest Energy Investment Bank, Simmons & Company International, disagrees with you. And pardon me for being blunt, but when someone who does business with some of the largest oil companies in the world and advises the President of the United States says we have a crisis on our hands, I tend to believe it over the random guy posting in forums on the internet who names himself after a type of nut.

A couple of quotes from Simmons:

"Over the last year, I have obtained and closely examined more than 100 very technical production reports from Saudi Arabia. What I glean from examining the data is that it is very likely that Saudi Arabia, already a debtor nation, has very likely gone over its Peak. If that is true, then it is a certainty that planet earth has passed its peak of production. "

also

"Peaking of oil and gas will occur, if it has not already happened, and we will never know when the event has happened until we see it 'in our rear view mirrors.'"

March 28, 2004

I'm looking into the smaller hyrid SUV's on and coming on the market... unfortunately I'll be waiting for 2005 to buy.

Rumor has it that Honda will be bringing out a hybrid version of the Element in a couple of years, and should be unveiling a hybrid of the Pilot or CR-V next year.

March 28, 2004

Should I start caching Oil and gas now?? :rolleyes:

March 28, 2004

Ford is also putting out a small hybrid SUV in a year or two. They chose not to buy the propriety liscensing for the engine technology from Honda, instead preferring to develop it in-house for the design experience value.

Oil paranoia, looking out for the future, the beneficial environmental effects and political outlooks notwithstanding, changing over to a more efficient technology just makes economic sense. Think simple math: a gallon of gas at $1.50 vs. a gallon of gas at $2.50. Multiply that by 15-20- mpg and then by 30-40+ mpg.

"If caches A, B. and C are 50 miles away, with an average of 4 miles between each, and it will take another 2 miles each of GPS wandering to find parking spots, how many miles will your roundtrip cover? (Do not factor in the 10 mile there and back side trip to hit that really good smoked rib joint you know of from your last foray into this cache area.) Then multiply the mile count by your average miles per gallon, and then again by the price of a gallon of gas. Repeat with the increased miles per gallon of the more fuel efficient vehicle. Now compare the two. Which number is the lesser?"

Hey, I are a English teacher, and I even I can figure this out.

2.5k · March 28, 2004

I tend to believe it over the random guy posting in forums on the internet who names himself after a type of nut.

What's the point of making a personal attack on my handle? Does that strengthen your argument somehow? My credentials? Informed citizen, what are yours?

Not all of the world's oil comes from Saudi Arabia, so it can hardly be used as a yardstick of what oil supplies are worldwide. As a matter of fact, only a small portion of the world has been explored for oil and reserves for the next 40 years or so have already been found.

If that is true, then it is a certainty that planet earth has passed its peak of production

Peaking of oil and gas will occur, if it has not already happened, and we will never know when the event has happened until we see it 'in our rear view mirrors.

Well it's either true or not, it's a certainty or we'll never know. Thanks for clearing that up.

Edit:punctuation

Edited March 28, 2004 by cachew nut

March 28, 2004

What's the point of making a personal attack on my handle? Does that strengthen your argument somehow? My credentials? Informed citizen, what are yours?

My apologies if you mistook my comment about your handle as a personal attack. It wasn't meant that way. I need to use more smilies. I was making a joke about whether I should believe a credentialed authority, or just another "nut" on the internet. :rolleyes:

My credentials aren't relevant, as I wasn't making any claims on the subject.

2.5k · March 28, 2004

Think simple math: a gallon of gas at $1.50 vs. a gallon of gas at $2.50. Multiply that by 15-20- mpg and then by 30-40+ mpg.

2.50*20MPG=50

1.50*40MPG=60

"If caches A, B. and C are 50 miles away, with an average of 4 miles between each, and it will take another 2 miles each of GPS wandering to find parking spots, how many miles will your roundtrip cover?

114 miles

50+2+4+2+4+2+50

Then multiply the mile count by your average miles per gallon, and then again by the price of a gallon of gas. Repeat with the increased miles per gallon of the more fuel efficient vehicle.

112*20*1.75=3920

112*40*1.75=7840

Now compare the two. Which number is the lesser?"

The first number, the one of the less fuel efficient car.

Hey, I are a English teacher, and I even I can figure this out.

Good thing you aren't a math teacher.

Edit:edit

Edited March 28, 2004 by cachew nut

March 29, 2004

Good thing I drive a Honda Civic!

One less thing this newbie needs to put on her wish list!

March 29, 2004

Sorry Cachew Nut. You're right. One should divide the mileage, rather than multiply it by the average mpg.

So 114/40*$1.75 = ~$4.99 vs 114/20*$1.75 = ~$9.98.

114/40*$2.50 = ~$7.13 vs 114/20*$2.50 = $14.25

I guess that changes the initial point I was trying to make. You've made your case with me. We should burn more oil by driving less fuel efficient cars, because we will spend more, therefore helping the economy grow! Now when the economy grows, the oil interests will have an incentive to build more refineries to produce more gasoline. And as we all know, when the oil interests benefit, we all benefit. dadgum the future! Full speed ahead!

March 29, 2004

double post

Edited March 29, 2004 by Metaphor

March 29, 2004

I just bought a Jeep Wrangler.

I am getting the obligatory 15 MPG and I live in SoCal where gas prices

average about 2.37 for the cheap stuff.

So, I just cache when I am on business trips.

The company writes off my fun.

Tomorrow I am heading to Frankfurt Germany.

I feel so lucky and wish I could take all of you with me.

Please don't hate me.

3.8k · March 29, 2004

Tomorrow I am heading to Frankfurt Germany.
I feel so lucky and wish I could take all of you with me.

Please don't hate me.

On the contrary. At least we still have Sparky...

38.2k · March 29, 2004

Not an issue yet. Gas is still pretty cheap in NJ. $1.67 for regular yesterday. Besides, my CR-V gets pretty good gas mileage for an SUV. I'm getting 26 mpg on the highway as long as my ski rack isn't on the roof. Its a far cry from my Civic though, which got 38mpg. Sold the Civic last week. Hope I don't regret it.

Edited March 29, 2004 by briansnat

March 29, 2004

I get about 17mpg in my Jeep, which I only drive to/from off-roading trips or occasionally when the weather's nice (top down ). My "daily driver" is a Ford Contour with which gets 32mpg. Also, when the weather's nice, I'll take my bike which gets about 44mpg. At the station I buy my gas at, it's gone from $2.09 to $2.03 in the last week. Surprising, but I'm not complaining.

7.2k · March 29, 2004

I recently purchased a used bike that needed a little bit of work. Hoping to get 40+ mpg, but it's a '82 1100 sportbike...

Our next car is going to be a hybrid.

However, we look at the bottom line. We both drive older vehicles that we own outright. I drive a Ford Ranger with 140k+ and Sissy drives Toyota Previa with 225k+. Both are going fairly strong, but the Ford is starting to show it's age. Thus the bike for an alternative for me. We still need a tow vehicle for the Doo, though.

But with all that said, buying a car to get better gas milage just doesn't add up. It would take the car's entire lifetime to recoup the expense in fuel savings.

So, the hybrid will have to wait until we run the van into the ground and if the lifetimes of other Previa's are any gauge, she has another 100k+ of life in her.

7.2k · March 29, 2004

Plus, if you shop around you might be able to find deals. We fill up at a place where once a week they match the competitor's price across the street for regular and offer all grades at that price. I save $.10 a gallon for mid grade (though I bump it up to premium) and Sissy saves $.20 a gallon for premium.

Also, some areas around town have different gas prices and around here can very as much $.20! You can save a couple of bucks just by fueling up near home instead of near work.

3.9k · March 29, 2004

Gas prices aren't that high. Gas is cheaper now than it was in the early 80s.

Adjusted for inflation, the current price of gas is less than in March 1981, when a gallon of gas cost the equivalent of $2.85 in today's dollars.

3.9k · March 29, 2004

Tomorrow I am heading to Frankfurt Germany.
I feel so lucky and wish I could take all of you with me.

Please don't hate me.

Well, don't fill your Jeep up. Gas in Germany is about 1.10 Euros per litre; that's just a tad under $5 per US gallon at current exchange rates.

March 29, 2004

I always think its funny when people complain about gas prices being .10-.20 cents higher then last year. For 20 gals of gas thats only 2-4 bucks more a tank full. Crap I blow through 4 bucks on average at least everyday somehow (drinks, snacks, lunch, stuff to put in geocaches...ets) Then some of those people (not all) go out and buy a pack of cigs. LOL...anyhow if you think about it the price of bottled water and some soda is higher per gal then gasis, at over 69 cents to a buck a bottle that is usually something around 4 bucks a gallon for water or more. Until gas prices shoot up a 1.00 or more a gal overnight then I am not going to worry about it. Like another poster said its a day of entertainment along with some exercise. Heck one trip to the movies with 2 kids and 2 adults can cost 20 bucks or more just to get in for what 2 hours of entertainment?

March 29, 2004

http://www.cockeyed.com/science/gallon/liquid.html

Gas is cheap.

March 29, 2004

Living in CT and commuting into NYC everyday, so there are scores of caches to find within a 1-2 hour drive. Opting NOT to keep up with the Jones and their SUV's I went with a VW Jetta TDI.... diesel. 50 miles per gallon and diesel is cheaper than gasoline, so fuel consumption is not a concern, 1 tank a week at 700+ miles a tank.

I do find it odd people buying vehicles specifically for the few days a year they might need the SUV and/or 4WD (or think they need it....... we still got around fine everyday in the decades before SUV's), while not considering the majority of the time they spend in the vehicle........ commuting to work.

We are VERY fortunate to have fuel prices so cheap and stable here in the US. Go to Europe, Canada or Asia averaging $5 a gallon and you'll realize how cheap it is here. How much were we paying 5 years ago? 10 or 15 years ago?

Like any other hobby, if you enjoy it enough you come up with the extra money from somewhere........... Is it morally wrong to have my 3 year old daughter get a paper route just so I can go caching????

1.3k · March 29, 2004

15 MPG and I don't care!

I figure I take public transportation to work, I can make up for the gas I don't use to go to work with trips for things like caching. (And I still don't come close to using as much gas as I would if I drove to work.)

March 29, 2004

To somehow help make geocaching a bit more environmentaly and economically friendly I really like to see it REQUIRED that suggested parking coordinates be listed with caches. At least for those that are not clearly drive-ups.

I know some don't like them but with the rising gas prices it would be helpful both to the environement as well as the wallet and certainly will not diminish my caching experiences. It can be rather frustrating at times spending more time driving to find a place to park to access the cache area than the time it takes to walk to and find the cache.

Encrypt them for those that prefer not use them. I'll be adding suggested parking to my few caches soon if they do not already have them.

Plans For Caching, And The Price Of Gas.

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