Would You Visit This Virtual?

March 25, 2004

Edit: Thanks to those that have posted with a yea or nea, but its starting to get a little out of hand. If the remainder of the comments could be a yes/no I would appreciate it.

I don't want to get caught up in the virtual argument right now, and if the polls were working I would utilize them to avoid the long winded arguments. With that said, would you visit this Virtual cache if you were in the area?

This site exists in a remote portion of the country with no paved roads for 25 miles and no geocaches within 30 miles. Imagine a vast, arid, high desert Plateau with few interesting features... Until you find this location. An oasis in the middle of no-where. A pool to soak your tired bones in... This is the location, right smack dab in the middle of the pool. "the reward for this cache is the location"!

As for "WOW" factor, its a clothing optional location(thanks Evil Rooster, I had not thought of that). But, please be respectful of others that may venture in and prefer swimwear.

Of course there will be questions to answer and historical facts to be learned.

Read below and it will explain why I choose to submit this as a virtual.

"Readers Digest" version of the guidelines that are met:

A virtual cache is a cache that exists in a form of a permanent object

at a location that was already there. Typically, the cache “hider”

creates a virtual cache at a location where physical caches are not

permitted. The reward for these caches is the location itself and

sharing information about your visit.

1) The site for my virtual cache exists in the form of a permanent object(hot springs).The BLM is currently conducting sensitivity studies in the area and while they dont mind people visiting the hot springs, camping, hiking, hunting or what ever, they would rather people dont leave things lying around.

Edit: I guess I need to clarify one issue. The area undergoing the study is an area that covers over 5 million acres, its not an easy task to place a physical cache a mile or two away.

Prior to considering a virtual cache, you must have given consideration

to the question “why couldn’t a microcache or multi-cache be placed

there?” Physical caches have priority, so please consider adding a

micro or making the location a step in an offset or multi-stage cache

with the physical cache placed in an area that is appropriate.

2) Why no physical, micro or multi cache? Due to the sensitivity study in the area.

A trail is a trail, a beach is a beach, a view is a view; but a

trail/beach/view is NOT a virtual cache. A cache has to be a specific

distinct GPS target - not something large like a mountain top or a park,

however special those locations are.

3)This is a very distinct GPS target. It is a 12 ft diameter natural hotsprings and if our GPS read the same, the coords should land you smackdab in the middle of the thing... Which is the point of the cache, to get in, test the water, report the temp or a picture of someone enjoying the experience.

Edited March 26, 2004 by Snootleather

March 25, 2004

Yes, I would endeavour to go, although not having any roads within 25 miles makes it a bit difficult.

Edited March 25, 2004 by Indiana Cojones

March 25, 2004

Let me clarify that Indy... no PAVED roads. there is a bumpy dirt road, but 4x4 is not needed. I made it there in January with no problem in 2 wheel drive.

March 25, 2004

Sounds great to me.

March 25, 2004

Sounds like a perfect candidate to me - did you submit this then?

(as an aside - does it have stepping stones? If not, KA will say 'NO WAY') :lol: :blink:

Edited March 25, 2004 by bug&snake

4.8k · March 25, 2004

I don't purposely go to virtuals much anymore after seeing several in a row that really were nothing more than a small monument and a sign. If I come across one of those on my own, I'll log it, but I don't seek them out anymore.

This, however, is the type of thing I might purposely go to. It sounds interesting and I love hot springs.

1.1k · March 25, 2004

If it was in my caching area, I would definately visit it. Sounds like you met all the criteria, except the last one you listed might be a little iffy...ie, if the spring is the target and it is 12 feet wide, perhaps that is too general. Is there an information plaque there which you can make as the target instead? What did the approver state as to why it wasn't approved?

I am still of the opinion that it should matter if it is a virtual or a traditional cache, they should both be approved and not preference given to one over the other. In many many case I have found the virtuals to be a lot more entertaining and fun and informative than many of the traditionals, and we tend to spend more time at the virtuals admiring the area.

As a solution, just stick a cache 25 miles away and make then go to the spring and get information from the spring area in order to find the cache. I know it might not serve the purpose, but atleast it would get approved.

And lastly, ask the admin to work with you and see what it would take to get you cache approved. Hopefully the admin will not give you the brush off and will take the time to help you.

And if it doesn't get approved, don't let it discourage you. Just keep having fun.

Edited March 25, 2004 by res2100

2.1k · March 25, 2004

Perfect location for a virtual cache! We uses caches in the desert to find places to camp and it is great to get a cache hit in the deal. We would also like to place desert caches where we think other adventuresom cachers might like to visit.

3.1k · March 25, 2004

I have a virtual in a very remote location. It was a virgin for nearly a year. With todays virtual climate I'll bet ya that you'll be asked to place a real container in the area and then turn it into a multi stage so you can take people to the virtual part.

March 25, 2004

I agree with Carleenp. If there's a hot springs, I'd be there. One of my life's greatest joys is visiting these wonderous places and if there a cache to be claimed . . . I'd be in heaven, man! (Can you tell we're just thawing out from winter up here?)

38.2k · March 25, 2004

Because of the BLM study, you might be able to get this in as a virt. Because the BLM's been pretty good about geocaching, I don't think TPTB would want to jeopardize that by insisting a regular cache be placed there. But you WILL need a method of verification. Something unique about the site that only a person who has been there will know.

It certainly sounds like a cool place and one I'd love to visit, cache or not.

Edited March 25, 2004 by briansnat

March 25, 2004

Absolutely yes. Love desert and love hot springs. But it stands a very little chance of being approved. If the area is too fragile one can argue that it shouldn't even be a virt. Gotta place a log-only micro a mile or two away, I am afraid.

38.2k · March 25, 2004

Absolutely yes. Love desert and love hot springs. But it stands a very little chance of being approved. If the area is too fragile one can argue that it shouldn't even be a virt. Gotta place a log-only micro a mile or two away, I am afraid.

....or place a regular cache a respectable distance away and just put the coords to the hotspring on the cache page, or inside the real cache as a bonus virt.

3.1k · March 25, 2004

I'm not certain if I would visit this particular cache or not. There are quite a few caches in my area that I haven't visited. Some because the roads are lousy on the way in and they stand out there all alone. I've gotten spoiled I guess and want to pick up more than one cache when it takes that much effort.

March 25, 2004

If there was a physical cache there I think it would be more appropriate to list on GC.com. Of course if sever space for virtuals is not a problem it seems silly not to list it. but brings up the whole virtual/physical cache augment we don't want to get into.

On topic: yes, if I was there I would visit it.

edit: is this spring in the desert or Alaska?

Edited March 25, 2004 by geckoee

March 25, 2004

This site is more interesting than any physical cache one could place <snip>

If you wish to avoid the 'physical vs. virtual' discussion, you probably should have avoided adding your own value judgements. Some folks geocache because they enjoy visiting interesting locations. Some geocache because they enjoy the hunt for a physical container.

Pretty much any hot springs I've ever seen covers only a limited area. It's not like you have to put the coordinates in the middle of the sensitive area. Even if you have to go a little ways, I willing to bet you can find somewhere far enough out to avoid added impact but close enough to still make dropping by the springs easy to do. I know that I wouldn't go all that way then blow off a visit.

I'm perfectly happy looking for (most) virtuals, but if it's possible to bring people to a cool location and give them a container to search for, it seems like the way to go.

24.7k · March 25, 2004

All geocaches great and small,

given time I'll get them all.

2.1k · March 25, 2004

All geocaches great and small,
given time I'll get them all.

x2. Awesome.

March 25, 2004

Yes, I would go also. If a cache leads to a interesting place that I find a challenge or scenic it will be something worth remembering. I'm fairly new to geocaching, but I'm finding the cookie cutter type of caches are far too common. If I can't remember a cache the next day was it really worth my time? Your cache sounds to me like a worthy site and the lack of a physical container would not matter.

1.3k · March 25, 2004

I'm sure the hikers and campers would do more damage to the sensitive areas than a properly placed cache. Make the hot springs a way point in a multi cache with the cache as a reward on the way back to your car from the springs.

4.7k · March 25, 2004

absolutely, yes.

besides the fact that i go on record again and again as saying i'm not all that fussy, hot springs are cool

theres a website somewhere that lists coordinates for hot springs all over the country (maybe the world, i don't remember).

6.4k · March 25, 2004

absolutely, yes.

besides the fact that i go on record again and again as saying i'm not all that fussy, hot springs are cool

theres a website somewhere that lists coordinates for hot springs all over the country (maybe the world, i don't remember).

Gee Flask, that just killed a lot of the WOW. :bad:

A quick look at my stats shows I'm not against virts, but if it's THAT remote, I don't see how it wouldn't be possible to hide a decent sized physical cache.

I can't imagine the entire 25 mile drive down dirt roads is all too environmentally sensitive to place an ammo can somewhere along the route. I mean a 25 mile dirt road has way more impact on the environment then a .30 cal ammo box. And, if it's that sensitive, you probably shouldn't be inviting people to drive to the spring and jump in ANYWAY. All those tire tracks, and foot prints and stuff are still gonna be here. Your potential to damage the "sensitive environment" is the same in this case, virt or physical. Now that I look at it like that, maybe any sort of cache here is bad.

6.4k · March 25, 2004

Just noticed this part:

they dont mind people visiting the hot springs, camping, hiking, hunting or what ever

You killed it there.

You can't possibly tell me 5 million acres of land is too sensitive for a geocache, but not too sensitive for 4x4ing, hunting or camping on.

5k · March 25, 2004

Sounds like a neat place, but that doesn't make it a geocache. A geocache by definition is a stash of hidden things.

I wish more geocaches were located at neat places, but I don't wish more neat places were geocaches.

I'd like to visit the hot springs, but not as a virtual.

Jamie

5.3k · March 25, 2004

They will just tell you to make in part of a multi.

March 25, 2004

I'd visit that virtual because I've never been to an oasis in a desert before, I think it would be a fun experience.

2.3k · March 26, 2004

I'd visit that virtual because I've never been to an oasis in a desert before, I think it would be a fun experience.

Neither have I, and I think it would be a great idea for a VIRTUAL cache!

March 26, 2004

I just found this link for Oregon Hotsprings.

Makes this seem not all that unusual.

March 26, 2004

Sounds similar to Saline Valley Hotsprings in Death Valley National Park. It would have to be a virtual there, of course. I'll pack the vehicle on Friday. BCNU.

March 26, 2004

If it is SO remote why does it need to be a virtual?Would it be to difficult to maintain?Is it on land where geocaches are not allowed?I would visit it regardless!There is a hotspring here in Arizona called Verde hotsprings ,difficult to get to but very interesting and I have visited it!

March 26, 2004

All geocaches great and small,
given time I'll get them all.

Likewise Ditto.

But first, dang Lotto.

:bad:

March 26, 2004

Sounds great to me! I love hot springs and mineral springs. I would tend to agree with BrianSnat with regards to the BLM study. Is there something interesting that would not appear on an internet map regarding hot springs. Is there a neat rock formation, specific kind of tree, rock carving (petroglyph). As far as the need for such points of interest within the cache area, it has more to do with verification than with actual interest in the area.

shellie of M4S

3.5k · March 26, 2004

While not a hot spring, there are two virtuals for desert oasis in Big Bend National Park. Cat Tails Falls and Only in Texas. The logs on both caches make contemplate the 10+ hour drive to west Texas. :bad:

To answer your question about visitng your virtual, I would say no, not to log it as a find. I might visit on my own one day though - without logging the virt as a find.

March 26, 2004

I would think that anything that is very out of the usual would be worth a visit, even if it weren't a virtual I might be willing to go there.

Here is a virtual I placed not long ago.

Gem in the Desert

Maybe ho hum to some, but when you are in the middle of the desert, this is a sight for sore eyes.

Edited March 26, 2004 by woof n lulu

March 26, 2004

It seems that with all that land area and road going in that at the least a well thought out multi could do it. You could start it going in or maybe set it up coming out.

March 26, 2004

Sounds similar to Saline Valley Hotsprings in Death Valley National Park. It would have to be a virtual there, of course. I'll pack the vehicle on Friday. BCNU.

I thought of Saline immediately as well. If it is Saline, or a Saline-like place, would the "clothing optional" element add to or detract from the WOW factor? :bad:

I would go back to Saline, or go to any springs like Saline, so mark me down as a "yes".

9.4k · March 26, 2004

I have a cache near a hot springs. It isn't nearly as remote as the one you are asking about, only a few miles on a bumpy dirt road. There were lots of places to hide a traditional cache. Why bother with a virtual? If you're that concerned about damaging the environment, you shouldn't be out there in the first place. Virtuals should only be "placed" where a traditional is not allowed.

1.3k · March 26, 2004

Know what would go great with that virtual?

A disposable camera, so that people could take shots while they were there.

Maybe if you hid the camera in some durable container near where people would park their car. That seems like a good location and it wouldn't ruin the study at all.

Now that would be cool.

6.4k · March 26, 2004

Know what would go great with that virtual?

A disposable camera, so that people could take shots while they were there.

Maybe if you hid the camera in some durable container near where people would park their car. That seems like a good location and it wouldn't ruin the study at all.

Now that would be cool.

That's a GREAT idea!

Hey, you could put a little notebook in it too. This way people could log when they were there, and what pic number they took. Maybe even write a bit about their experiences too. Now THAT would be a cool virtual!

March 26, 2004

I would certainly go. There are spots in the Mojave Desert that are basically muddy holes in the ground which I'll hike to, 25 miles being no problem if it's done in October or November.

Clothing optional is also no problem since I'm a nudist.

March 26, 2004

Clothing optional is also no problem since I'm a nudist.

What a coincidence! I'm nude right now!

Although maybe I should cover up; my cats are vomiting.

March 26, 2004

Yes, but a tradtional could be put there too, kind of a 2 for 1

March 27, 2004

A definite YES is in order for this one. I'm ready now. :rolleyes:

6.4k · March 27, 2004

Edit: Thanks to those that have posted with a yea or nea, but its starting to get a little out of hand. If the remainder of the comments could be a yes/no I would appreciate it.

I don't want to get caught up in the virtual argument right now, and if the polls were working I would utilize them to avoid the long winded arguments. With that said, would you visit this Virtual cache if you were in the area?

It sounds like your trying to see if a virtual can/will be approved here. If that's the case, you're really asking the wrong questions.

"Yes I would visit this location if I was in the area" does not make it a virtual.

I think most people would visit the spot, if they were in the area. I would most likely also visit the nearest place to eat, and since I'm not local, a nearby campground or hotel. Just because I would visit those places, doesn't mean I think the McDonald's, KOA, and Motel 8 should be listed as virtuals too. You haven't made a convincing argument why this can't be a physical cache, and that's the first step to getting a virtual approved.

Edited March 27, 2004 by Mopar

March 27, 2004

Edit: This topic is now closed. Thanks to those that have posted with a yea or nea. Special thanks those that couldnt follow the instructions and had to continually add some sort of comment when all I was looking for was a yes/no

:rolleyes:

Would You Visit This Virtual?

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