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What's The Point?


Team MJDJ
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GeoCaching.com says:

Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles away from the true cache location. This allows the cache to show up on the proper vicinity searches and to keep the mileage of Travel Bugs that find their way into the cache reasonably correct.

 

So, what if I want to create a "puzzle-type" cache that takes the seekers through SEVERAL points of interest...Does this mean I have to make two or MORE caches to achieve the same ends?

By reading the description, people will be able to tell HOW FAR they must travel to complete this cache, and as such, those who don't want to travel this far needn't apply, correct?

 

Some of these rules are really "out there"...this sort of "regulation overload" serves as a real buzzkiller...

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I have a multi, and the actual cache is about 6 miles from the rest of the legs. They approved it without question. I think it's more of a friendly suggestion than anything else. They never seem to care. There is also a multi that I have found, and the legs were pretty darn far from eachother.

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If it ever gets approved, I'll post it here...biggest jump is 12 kms (about 7.5 miles) but it's all within the same township...

 

I was also planning to do a "Follow me" type of cache with clues all the way through the Fraser Canyon while we go on Holidays...wonder if they'd go for that?

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Some of these rules are really "out there"...this sort of "regulation overload" serves as a real buzzkiller...

 

I think you're reading too much into this. If a new puzzle cache gets placed nearby, I want the marker coordinates to be in my general vicinity and not somewhere the the middle of the Pacific so I'll see it on my nearest page. Is such a desire really 'out there', as you put it?

 

Make the starting coordinates on the page near the first point of interest, let folks know roughly how far the hunt is, and leave it at that. No need to get worked up over a 'regulation overload' that isn't there.

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Some of these rules are really "out there"...this sort of "regulation overload" serves as a real buzzkiller...

 

I don't see this as being "out there" at all. You're not giving anything away by by posting coordinates a mile or two off for puzzle caches and it makes more sense than posting coordinates in Minnesota for a cache in NJ. If you do that the cache would never show up on my closest search list and the folks in Minnesota would be wondering why the cache is on theirs.

 

So, what if I want to create a "puzzle-type" cache that takes the seekers through SEVERAL points of interest...Does this mean I have to make two or MORE caches to achieve the same ends?

 

No

 

By reading the description, people will be able to tell HOW FAR they must travel to complete this cache, and as such, those who don't want to travel this far needn't apply, correct?

 

Incorrect.

Edited by briansnat
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So, what if I want to create a "puzzle-type" cache that takes the seekers through SEVERAL points of interest...

Sounds like a multi to me, not a mystery/puzzle cache.

 

Multis almost always have puzzles between the stages. My impression of mystery caches is that there is usually only one stage, but the actual co-ordinates are hidden or encoded in the web page description instead of straightforward the way a traditional is.

 

And when you think about it that way, the rule suddenly makes sense. Perhaps what's "out there" is your interpretation of what a puzzle cache is and what a multi cache is?

Edited by bons
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Well...my cache was NOT approved.

Why? Because the Start and End points are 6 miles apart....what a crime! What horror! O the Humanity!

 

It will be a LONG, LONG time before I place another cache....this is outright stupidity!

My interest in this "hobby" has taken a nose-dive.

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... Because the Start and End points are 6 miles apart....

That's a new one on me. I didn't know a multi type cache had a distance limitation. All I was aware of is that you needed to disclose the coordinates so they could verify the locations are ok.

 

In recent history it seems though the puzzle/multi dilema is listed as a puzzle cache though.

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I'm puzzled. Because there's no rule on maximum length for a multi-stage cache (be it designated as a puzzle or a multi), I went to the geocache list for British Columbia, your home area, to try and find your archived cache so that I could see what transpired and perhaps then I could better assist you.

 

I cannot find any archived cache submissions from your account in the past month, just the multicache that was approved a few days ago. What am I missing? Can you provide a waypoint number, or was your idea just a preliminary one that never became a formal cache submission?

 

I will be glad to help you upon review of further information.

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It "was" GCHYXV.

 

I say "WAS" because I am so PO'd with the BS that I archived it, retrieved it and e-mailed the approver telling him that it would be a cold day in you-know-where before I hid another one.

 

Let's get realistic here....we are hiding TUPPERWARE...this isn't rocket science, it's supposed to be F-U-N!

What's the best way to kill a pastime? Regulate it to death!

 

My passion has hit bottom...who knows if it will recover.

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I say "WAS" because I am so PO'd with the BS that I archived it, retrieved it and e-mailed the approver telling him that it would be a cold day in you-know-where before I hid another one.

Of course you said that in a polite manner through your email coorespondence with the approver.

 

With your levelheadedness and understanding, I can't, for the life of me, understand why your cache wasn't approved.

 

Jamie

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Wow, don't take this the wrong way or anything, but... Cry me a river why don't you.

 

"If this is the only form of protest that will work, so be it!

This HOBBY (and let's get real...this IS just a hobby!) is being regulated and stipulated right out of existence. We're hiding Tupperware for God's sake! Those seekers who don't feel like travelling more than a mile for a McToy, should stay home and take up knitting!

ALL caches of mine are hereby archived and retrieved and it will be a LONG, LONG time before I hide another!"

 

They didn't approve one cache, and you went and picked up all toys and went home.

 

Now to be a little constructive: Did you check to make sure your final cache location was more than a tenth of a mile from any other caches?

 

Maybe you should have tried working with your local cache appover instead of harassing/insulting them and their decision. There could have been something they were willing to work with you on.

 

Since I'm not sure how either side of the conversation really went (or if there was one) I can't say why they may have rejected it.

 

I understand wanting to try to put something challenging and original together, but taking your ball and going home isn't the best way to go about things.

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It "was" GCHYXV.

 

I say "WAS" because I am so PO'd with the BS that I archived it, retrieved it and e-mailed the approver telling him that it would be a cold day in you-know-where before I hid another one.

 

Let's get realistic here....we are hiding TUPPERWARE...this isn't rocket science, it's supposed to be F-U-N!

What's the best way to kill a pastime? Regulate it to death!

 

My passion has hit bottom...who knows if it will recover.

Buh-bye! Watch out for that doo....oh, too late. :rolleyes:

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I'm confused. If GCHYXV was not approved, why did Team MJDJ have to archive it. Heck, why can I even see it? I shouldn't be able to see any cache other than my own that were never approved.

Very strange...it WAS approved, or I wouldn't be able to see the CACHE PAGE. I'm guessing there must be something we're not hearing about.

Edited by Stunod
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Must be the water, that's the second cacher from the area to archive all their caches within the last week. Ok, so I see the other cacher has changed their mind and had them un-archived. I'm getting dizzy. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

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Wow! Complaining about an approved cache? I don't get it.

 

All of my caches have been approved. HOW DARE CoAdmin approve MY caches?

 

I am complaining to the gc.com authorities. :rolleyes:

 

Seriously, why did you archive it after it was approved? You voiced your opinion on the subject and it was approved so I don't get why you archived it.

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Wow! Complaining about an approved cache? I don't get it.

 

All of my caches have been approved. HOW DARE CoAdmin approve MY caches?

 

I am complaining to the gc.com authorities. :rolleyes:

 

Seriously, why did you archive it after it was approved? You voiced your opinion on the subject and it was approved so I don't get why you archived it.

Why does his post say ringbone?

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lol what will we read in this forum next...sometimes i actualy think people start topics just to bring us down.i dunno why players have to fight the "rules" so much.approvers will always work with you to solve whatever problem the cache had and most times there is middle ground to be had.....ttfn

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That's the "funny" part...the Approver DENIED the cache, then APPROVED it less than half an hour later, without an e-mail or note explaining his/her change of heart.

 

I don't expect any sympathy from anybody...the fact remains that I am not the only cacher in the area that has had problems with the "politics" involved with this GAME.

 

I will continue to SEEK caches, I merely refuse to hide anymore "urban-type" caches, since it seems to be the urbanites who whine about caches being more than 100 yards apart so that they can't log 15 in a day.

 

Can anyone explain to me WHY the points on a multi can't be more than 6 miles apart?

The biggest JUMP in this cache was 12 kilometers, yet the Cache was (initially) NOT approved because the START and END points were more than 2 miles apart????

Then, it gets approved....with NO explanation!

My last entry was 2.5 hours ago (or so)...and in that time, I have been able to MAKE dinner, EAT dinner, then drive out and retrieve ALL my local caches. One of which included a 20 min. HIKE UP a mountain and another which required a 10 min DRIVE up a logging road. How big of a deal was that?

 

For the record, I was polite but assertive in my e-mail. Whether you believe that or not doesn't rally concern me at this point.

Edited by Team MJDJ
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For what it's worth, the STUMP the DOGGY Cache was a "tongue-in-cheek" dedication to a fellow Cacher in my area...but it could easily be misinterpreted, especially if one was looking for something to criticize.

Are you saying that you can divine my "tone" by the way I type?

Funny!

 

I was told that the REASONING behind the "2-mile rule" was that "there have been multi's with bogus co-ordinates..."

This makes as much sense as ticketting people for having alarms that go off when someone tries to steal their car...here's a novel idea: How about we inconvenience the people who are the CAUSE of the problem rather than the innocent?

Until today I had FOUR caches, (one of which is a WILDERNESS cache, over 200 miles away - yet THAT ONE was approved - figure THAT one out!?) with which there has NEVER been a problem or any sort of infraction. One would THINK that past record would set precedent.

Apparently this isn't the case...whatever, I won't do this thing to death, it's over!

Edited by Team MJDJ
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I apologize if anybody was OFFENDED by my remarks.

 

While retrieving my caches tonight, I also discovered that one of them had been plundered...it has been a Geocaching day from hell for me today.

 

As I said, I don't expect sympathy, but I didn't expect OPEN SEASON for airing an opinion. Evidently I'm not the only one who needs to "lighten up" a bit...

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That's the "funny" part...the Approver DENIED the cache, then APPROVED it less than half an hour later, without an e-mail or note explaining his/her change of heart.

 

Could it have just been an oversight? Thinking it shouldn't be approved, and then realizing there was nothing wrong with it?

 

Just a thought.

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the only people you hurt by retrieving your caches are the ones who could have found your caches in the future. that's sad. they sound like they would have been good ones.

 

Geckoee - Lowell, MA

Eddthejailer - southern indiana

Sparky - Tornado Alley

Imajika - Aurora, CO

BrianSnat - Morris County, NJ

 

Not likely to VISIT any of my caches soon...yet the most vocal regarding my actions, Hmmmmm......?

 

Yes...they WERE good ones, at least the TWO left that weren't plundered.

 

Again, I must ask why past-record doesn't take precedence over RULES that are created to inconvenience those who have done nothing wrong?

 

Once I get over this tantrum, I'll probably be thinking of new places to hide more of them, but this time it will be (not so) simple GOTO's...apparently these are a bit more forgiving...

Edited by Team MJDJ
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That's the "funny" part...the Approver DENIED the cache, then APPROVED it less than half an hour later, without an e-mail or note explaining his/her change of heart.

 

Could it have just been an oversight? Thinking it shouldn't be approved, and then realizing there was nothing wrong with it?

 

Just a thought.

Who knows...kinda moot now!

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Yes...they WERE good ones, at least the TWO left that weren't plundered.

 

Again, I must ask why past-record doesn't take precedence over RULES that are created to inconvenience those who have done nothing wrong?

 

Once I get over this tantrum, I'll probably be thinking of new places to hide more of them, but this time it will be (not so) simple GOTO's...apparently these are a bit more forgiving...

then it seems like the only ones who got screwed are the future cachers. you wasted all that time retrieving your caches and yours got approved anyway. well, i hope you enjoyed the drive there and back.

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The burning question is WHY did it get approved a half hour after being denied?

 

...and if it was approved AFTER being denied, why wasn't there any sort of explanation regarding this change in heart/policy?

 

The way I see it, something is either YAY or NAY...not BOTH!

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Maybe it was an honest mistake. The approvers are people too.

 

It's only a moot point, because you made it that way.

 

Possibly, at first, it was a NAY, and then they realized something, and made it a YAY.

 

Maybe they figured, because it was so fast afterward, they just changed it, and hoped all would be well.

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GeoCaching.com says:

Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles away from the true cache location.  This allows the cache to show up on the proper vicinity searches and to keep the mileage of Travel Bugs that find their way into the cache reasonably correct.

 

So, what if I want to create a "puzzle-type" cache that takes the seekers through SEVERAL points of interest...Does this mean I have to make two or MORE caches to achieve the same ends?

By reading the description, people will be able to tell HOW FAR they must travel to complete this cache, and as such, those who don't want to travel this far needn't apply, correct?

 

Some of these rules are really "out there"...this sort of "regulation overload" serves as a real buzzkiller...

The rule you quoted is for puzzle caches where the posted coordinates have no relationship to the actual start of the cache. In this case, the owner could, in theory, make the coordinates hundreds of miles away. The rule simply tries to rein that in.

 

As for your cache that was first denied, then approved, it's possible that the reviewer misread or misunderstood something in the first reading. Mistakes happen every day. Just like you made by posting this in the "Getting Started" forum, where it clearly doesn't belong. The mistake (if that's what is was) was rectified in 30 minutes. You can't even get Dominos to guarantee a delivery that fast anymore.

 

And you're complaining???? icon_stupid.gif

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Once I get over this tantrum, I'll probably be thinking of new places to hide more of them, but this time it will be (not so) simple GOTO's...apparently these are a bit more forgiving...

Once you get over this tantrum you'll be hard pressed to find anyone, approver or forum member, who will want to work with you. I personally wouldn't want to try to work with someone who has proven they would rather fight me than work with me. I mean you archived a cache they actually approved and started a rant complaining about it online. How can someone work with a person like that?

 

The approvers are NOT the enemy. But if you insist on seeing them that way and treating them that way, then they might as well be.

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GeoCaching.com says:

Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided...

 

...

 

Some of these rules are really "out there"...this sort of "regulation overload" serves as a real buzzkiller...

I agree. Many people think this rule is good and see no reason for it to be otherwise. To those I say you have little imagination.

 

In letterboxing you have something called a "mystery box." Some of those are based in a particular state while some have absolutely no geographical home. You have to figure out where to even start the hunt.

 

You could do the same thing with puzzle caches. Zero out the coords to put them in the middle of the ocean, but set the state. Search by state for mystery caches in that state. I know this will work because a cache is mislabeled as being in SC and the coords are in NC. Now you have to solve clues as to where to begin.

 

Before anyone gets on their highhorse about affecting TB milage, I say "so what?" I find it sad that a secondary activity of caching is limiting a core part of the game. Face it, geocaching can function very well without TBs. Hitchhikers--which is what a TB really is--can function very well without caches. Traveler Tags work very similar to TBs but aren't tied to a cache. This is inherently more accurate in that you can put in any coords. If you wanted you could put in the coords to each stage of multi and have the TT follow and gain the miles of that multi. TBs don't have that functionality, but could be added of TPTB really wanted.

 

Back to the subject at hand, this is a classic example of a rule coming about to eliminate a symptom of a problem that need not exist in the first place. It's just another bandaid.

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Back to the subject at hand, this is a classic example of a rule coming about to eliminate a symptom of a problem that need not exist in the first place. It's just another bandaid.

This isn't even a problem. The rule you speak of is a guideline. Whatever your lobbying for with regards to putting coordinates in the ocean is a different arguement.

 

I'm trying very hard to understand this thread. It seems as if the thread starter is simply upset because someone initially turned down his cache only to approve it a half hour later. In trying to follow this thread it seems he knew this even before he started the thread. 6 hours after starting the thread another approver offered to help him get his cache approved or find out why it wasn't. It had been approved days before at that point.

 

Someone made a mistake, the ref made a bad call. They took a look at the instant reply and fixed it. I'm not sure how much more you can ask for. Obviously the rule is not inflexible. His last complaint is that it should have been approved or denied. People are going to make mistakes, maybe it was accidently denied. I don't think removing rules or adding more is going to make this person happy.

 

To me it sounds like this person was looking for a reason to quit.

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To me it sounds like this person was looking for a reason to quit.

Very well could be.

 

I got in a huff a while back. Didn't archive my caches though because I realize that gc.com is not geocaching. They are the largest site and thus have the ability to push the RASH in pretty much any direction they want. But I don't have to go along with it. I can do pretty much what I please and that is furthering geoaching and if I have to leave gc.com behind, then so be it.

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To me it sounds like this person was looking for a reason to quit.

Very well could be.

 

I got in a huff a while back. Didn't archive my caches though because I realize that gc.com is not geocaching. They are the largest site and thus have the ability to push the RASH in pretty much any direction they want. But I don't have to go along with it. I can do pretty much what I please and that is furthering geoaching and if I have to leave gc.com behind, then so be it.

Geoaching? That is the funniest typo I've seen in a LONG time here... or was it a freudian slip? :)

 

Seriously, CR... I value your participation in the forums and I am glad you returned. You have many good ideas and you are able to express your concerns in a calm & well-articulated manner.

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For what it's worth, the STUMP the DOGGY Cache was a "tongue-in-cheek" dedication to a fellow Cacher in my area...but it could easily be misinterpreted, especially if one was looking for something to criticize.

Are you saying that you can divine my "tone" by the way I type?

Funny!

Sorry there Team MJDJ. I wasn't trying to upset you, or "divine your tone" I was trying to make the point that you did in your reply. The written word is a funny thing: if it is not very carefully put together it can easily be interpreted as something that you did not intend. Not trying to criticize the way you wrote it. Just trying to find out what sort of tine you intended it to be perceived with.

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Must be the water, that's the second cacher from the area to archive all their caches within the last week.  Ok, so I see the other cacher has changed their mind and had them un-archived.  I'm getting dizzy.  Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Nah it's the looooong winter with very short daylight hours. Sunlight deprivation is a wonderful method of torture. That's why I moved south 10 years ago. :)

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Once I get over this tantrum, I'll probably be thinking of new places to hide more of them, but this time it will be (not so) simple GOTO's...apparently these are a bit more forgiving...

Once you get over this tantrum you'll be hard pressed to find anyone, approver or forum member, who will want to work with you. I personally wouldn't want to try to work with someone who has proven they would rather fight me than work with me. I mean you archived a cache they actually approved and started a rant complaining about it online. How can someone work with a person like that?

 

The approvers are NOT the enemy. But if you insist on seeing them that way and treating them that way, then they might as well be.

 

Bons

Location: Bellevue, NE

 

Again...it doesn't seem to me like YOU would have been visiting any (ex)cache of mine anyway.

Since you are a few thousand miles away, geographically speaking, I can live with the fact that you'll want nothing to do with me or my caches...have a nice day.

Edited by Team MJDJ
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To me it sounds like this person was looking for a reason to quit.

Very well could be.

 

I got in a huff a while back. Didn't archive my caches though because I realize that gc.com is not geocaching. They are the largest site and thus have the ability to push the RASH in pretty much any direction they want. But I don't have to go along with it. I can do pretty much what I please and that is furthering geoaching and if I have to leave gc.com behind, then so be it.

So what other options are there for submitting a cache? Doesn't GC.com have the final say?

I have no problem with RULES per se, but when "some" rules are enforced and others not, it doesn't help the cause.

 

For instance, I could give you the name of a DOZEN "wilderness" caches...Caches literally dumped in the middle of nowhere, far from the owner's normal residence; I have (had) one myself!

What about the caches who start off by saying: "Ignore the above co-ordinates, they will put you 'somewhere' in North America..."

There are PLENTY of "violations" around...some more severe than others. I don't think my "violation" was reason enough for denial, and obviously the approver didn't either since he approved it minutes before I archived it!

Archiving it was the only form of protest available to me. Again, I'm sorry if anybody is hurt by this, but those who aren't even in my area code shouldn't be complaining as if they suffered some great loss!

 

Let's remember...this IS a game!

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So what other options are there for submitting a cache? Doesn't GC.com have the final say?

Yes, they have the final say.

 

...on what is listed here.

 

First, let's tackle the issue of "other violations." Many of these are caches that were in place before a particular rule went into place. They are grandfathered in. Some issues aren't important enough to cause geotrash by delisting them or forcing owners to pick them up, but are important enough to prevent more of the same. (This is without getting into the merit of the rule.) So you will see some caches that are now in violation of a rule that may cause your cache to not be approved.

 

On the issue of getting a cache listed, you need not play by gc.com rules. While I would strongly suggest to always follow the law, respect landowner rights, and think about your fellow cacher, the rest is up to you. You can simply create a webpage on your own and list your caches there. Then put a link on each of your gc.com-listed caches (if you had not archived them) pointing to "my other caches." I like to call them "Private Label Caches" as they aren't listed on any geocaching site, i.e. not listed under any "label."

 

While it would have been great to have just one place to go for all of your caching needs, it looks like this is not to be. As more people realize there is more out there than what's listed on gc.com they'll be looking for it.

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So what other options are there for submitting a cache? Doesn't GC.com have the final say?

I have no problem with RULES per se, but when "some" rules are enforced and others not, it doesn't help the cause.

There are other several other cache listing sites like http://navicaching.com.

For instance, I could give you the name of a DOZEN "wilderness" caches...Caches literally dumped in the middle of nowhere, far from the owner's normal residence; I have (had) one myself!

What about the caches who start off by saying: "Ignore the above co-ordinates, they will put you 'somewhere' in North America..."

There are PLENTY of "violations" around...some more severe than others.

Perhaps some of the caches you question were grandfathered in. With the growing popularity of this game gc.com has had to adapt and new guidelines have been adopted.

I don't think my "violation" was reason enough for denial, and obviously the approver didn't either since he approved it minutes before I archived it!

Archiving it was the only form of protest available to me. Again, I'm sorry if anybody is hurt by this, but those who aren't even in my area code shouldn't be complaining as if they suffered some great loss!

30 minutes after your cache was denied it was approved. You don't even know for a fact that it wasn't denied by accicdent. 6 hours after you posted your message another approver offered to help you get it sorted out. I'm not sure how much more you can ask for except to get your caches instantly approved without ever being questioned.

Let's remember...this IS a game!

Perhaps you should remind yourself of this fact.

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Bons

Location: Bellevue, NE

 

Again...it doesn't seem to me like YOU would have been visiting any (ex)cache of mine anyway.

Since you are a few thousand miles away, geographically speaking, I can live with the fact that you'll want nothing to do with me or my caches...have a nice day.

Regardless of where I am in relation to any of your caches, your forum posts put you right here in my office, in my personal space. That, now, is the part of you I don't want to associate with. By bringing your caches and your problems into my office, you have, by proxy, given me and all the others the authority to make comments and express opinions. If you don't want that from us, close the thread, take your toys and go home. Better yet, don't even bother opening threads if you don't want public comment. Now get out of my office! :)

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I've got to go with the cat on this one. You opened a discussion on a worldwide table, and then you disregard the opinions of anyone who does not live within X miles of your caches. Shouldn't you also disregard and ridicule those posters who agreed with you who live outside of your circle.

 

I want attention! (but only from people who agree with me or live really close).

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Geckoee - Lowell, MA

Eddthejailer - southern indiana

Sparky - Tornado Alley

Imajika - Aurora, CO

BrianSnat - Morris County, NJ

 

Not likely to VISIT any of my caches soon...yet the most vocal regarding my actions, Hmmmmm......?

 

Bons

Location: Bellevue, NE

 

Again...it doesn't seem to me like YOU would have been visiting any (ex)cache of mine anyway.

Since you are a few thousand miles away, geographically speaking, I can live with the fact that you'll want nothing to do with me or my caches...have a nice day.

I can't agree with the cat here. Rather, I FULLY EMBRACE the logic set forth in Team MJDJ's posts quoted above. I trust that it means the opposite is true: that nobody in British Columbia will comment on our caches many miles away here in the U.S.

 

Somebody pinch me, this is too cool.

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