Reporting Not Found On The Ngs Database

[+Black Dog Trackers]

Does anyone of us ever report Not Found on the NGS Database? I never have.

 

The USPSQD (United States Power Squadron) does it.

 

Should we (GEOCAC)? Does the NGS want to receive such reports from us?

 

Does anyone know if the USPSQD uses better GPS units than we do, or if they use GPS units at all? I figure there must be a hundred different USPSQD groups and maybe they do different things.

[+GeckoGeek]

Does anyone of us ever report Not Found on the NGS Database? I never have.

So far, no, but I'm sure I will soon.

 

Should we (GEOCAC)?

 

Depends on the conditions. Keep in mind the official rules are that you can't "destroy" a disk that you can't find. If you run into a situation that there is little doubt that it's gone, but there is no disk to report, what else do you do?

 

NGS doesn't allow us to "leave a note". You may well have data of interest, (area has been redeveloped) but you didn't find it, you can't leave a note; what's left?

[+embra]

I report not founds only when I am reasonably confident that they aren't there. About 95% of the time I figure I could well be missing a BM still present somewhere.

 

Your question started me thinking that I might expand my reports to include my not founds when there is a previous report of a not found on the data sheet. That could be useful data, I suppose. I think I'll mull it over for a year or two...

[mloser]

I have reported a few NOT FOUNDS when I was certain I had found the disk location--for instance if the circle the disk was sitting in is evident, or I definitely know that the mark SHOULD be where it AIN'T. I will be more cautious as I stray from my home area--often I can tell that a road was rerouted or widened because I have been here for 46 years. I will be less likely to know that in other areas.

[+California Bear]

I have reported a few not founds in cases where I am 100% sure the station has been destroyed but I can't meet the burden of proof needed to have it marked as destroyed. I also include a description of the area that indicates why it was not found.

 

Near my work are a couple of stations that were listed as being on bluffs overlooking a road. In the past few years, the bluffs have been cut away to create an area for parking lots and a parking structure. The edge of the bluff is now back 300-400' from the road. I'm pretty darn sure that the marks are gone because I don't see them levitating in the air 40' over the parking lot. : ) However, because I don't have the disk in hand, I can only list it as not found.

 

There are also some stations that used to be located on culverts going under the highway. The areas are now completely built up into an urban area and the culverts are gone, replaced by underground storm drains. There is a possibility the culverts are still there buried under the road. (Stranger things have been buried. In the 1940s, UCLA buried a bridge while filling in an arroyo. The bridge can still be accessed from tunnels under UCLA. UCLA Tunnels) If the culverts are still there I sure as heck couldn't find them so I marked them as not found with the NGS noting that there are no longer any culverts in the area.

[+chaosmanor]

Yes, I have filed a few "not found" Recoveries with the NGS. As others have pointed out, there is a difference between "not found" and "destroyed". All that "not found" means is that you couldn't find it. If it has been many years since the last Recovery, and you have done a thorough search for the disc, are 90%-or-better certain that you have the correct area, have identified at least one of the landmarks in the Description, and still cannot find the thing, then filling a "not found" is useful. Remember, any piece of good data is better than no data at all. If that "not found" is in the system, and a later person comes along, at least s/he will know that some real searching might be necessary.

 

I just filed a "not found" on EW4456. The thing is along a RR track in the San Fernando Valley of L.A. It was last visited when it was monumented, in 1961. The measured distances in the Description put the thing under a fallen tree. Maybe the thing is still there; maybe it isn't. There was a huge pile of debris of all sorts up against the tree, and I wasn't in the mood to go digging through it all. The witness post in the Description was not to be found, either. When I filed the Recovery, I mentioned this stuff. I think that this is the sort of info that the NGS and others can use, and I suggest that any "not found" Report include such details.

 

On the other hand, a definite "destroyed" is filed by e-mail; I've got one of those. It was a mark that I found about 20 feet from where it should be, dug up, still on it's concrete post, under a bush. I'll let the NGS and L.A. County decide what they want to do with it, if anything.

[DebBrown]

Hi Everybody,...Deb Brown from NGS here. I was checking out your comments and see that there is some hesitancy about reporting NOT FOUNDS. These are important because that's the best way to report changes to the descriptions. Especially for stations that haven't been reported on for some time. So please feel free to send me reports of stations searched for but not found and in the text portion of the form indicate any changes to the area.

 

Thanks for everything you all are doing to help us keep the NGS database up to date. Your efforts are valuable and appreciated.

 

deb

[+Black Dog Trackers]

Deb -

 

Wow, I was kinda hoping to pull DaveD 'out of the woodwork', with this thread, but you're showing up is a pleasant surprise indeed!

 

The usefulness of even a Not Found report in updating location descriptions is an angle I hadn't thought of. I can see where it would especially apply where we're just short of being able to say for certain that the mark is destroyed and have to say Not Found instead. Next time I find myself in that situation, I will take careful description notes and submit a mark recovery note as Not Found.

 

In many other cases though, I find myself looking at 170 square feet of manicured lawn that is the error boundaries of my GPS, not wanting to dig up any of it, and knowing that if I had a surveyor class GPS, I could go right to the spot and find the mark. In those cases, I figure my Not Found isn't really very informative.

[Wintertime]

In many other cases though, I find myself looking at 170 square feet of manicured lawn that is the error boundaries of my GPS, not wanting to dig up any of it, and knowing that if I had a surveyor class GPS, I could go right to the spot and find the mark. 

LOL--and a metal detector, too! I've encountered the same situation a number of times--not knowing whether maybe the mark was still there under the ground cover. But I'm leaving it to the professional surveyors to ask permission to dig up some company's expensive landscaping. ;-)

 

And Deb, may I add my warm welcome to you on behalf of the GC.com benchmark aficionados.

 

Patty

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

I have never yet to report a not found to NGS.

I have sent in a few destroyed and really dislike doing it but it is part of the recovry process.

I do leave a note on the Geocaching page that I could not find it.

I hope that a better geocacher or surveyor will come along and find it.

 

I have started back through my list and am trying to make sure that I am reporting them correctly.

Some of the very 1st one's I did I made some frowny faces instead of just leaving a note that I could not find it.

 

All a part of the learning of how important what we report is to the PROFESSIONALS.

 

Keep up the good work everyone.