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Reminder Cache Irresponsibly

aka Monkey

By aka Monkey
in General geocaching topics

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aka Monkey

+aka Monkey

Posted
Posted

Does anyone else find it ludicrous that we're even having a debate on whether people should follow the rules or not?

 

If you don't like the rules at geocaching.com, then don't come here. Go start your own site, called "GPSuserswhothinktheyrebetterthaneveryoneelse.com," where the goal is to ostracize yourself from every land use agency in the country, with a special prize for people who manage to get a police record. The whole sport can be organized around being as selfish as possible. It'll have tons of rules, but none of them will apply to you because you're special.

 

The rules are there for a reason, people. None of the rules seem selfish or pointless to me... if you can't play by the rules, please, for the love of Mike, GO AWAY. Go explain to the cop why it's your God-given right to drive 113 miles in a school zone. Go explain to the RIAA why you're entitled to download all the music you want without paying for it. Go tell the out of work software programmer why you didn't pay for any of the software on your machine.

 

QUIT BEING SELFISH, YOU BUNCH OF INCONSIDERATE JERKS.

 

[stepping off soap box]

 

Sorry. I've been tailgated one too many times this week. :D

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GrandpaCannon

GrandpaCannon

Posted
Posted

I'm not sure what (or I should say which) debate you're talking about. I guess it depends on how the debate goes. If someone says "I know the rules are there but I don't think I should have to follow them" then I think you are right. If, however, someone wants to lobby for a change in the rules I think that is a legitimate discussion. The rules may never change and in my opinion everyone should follow the rules until and unless they are changed but asking for and discussing the possibility of a rule change doesn't bother me. :D

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ju66l3r

ju66l3r

Posted
Posted
Does anyone else find it ludicrous that we're even having a debate on whether people should follow the rules or not?

 

The rules are there for a reason, people. None of the rules seem selfish or pointless to me...

I'm sure INGSOC started fairly harmlessly too.

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Johnnie Stalkers

+Johnnie Stalkers

Posted
Posted
If you don't like the rules at geocaching.com, then don't come here.

Hypothetically speaking lets say 'Bob' likes the rules just fine. But sometimes after a busy day of tailgating innocent drivers he begins to feel a little lonesome. The only thing that makes Bob feel better when he is lonesome is to 'stir' some gravy in the forums. You know, just for fun. Sometimes he flames others, sometimes he starts topics on gun totting abortionist and their rights to bury caches. On a really good day, when things are rockin' and everyone is paying lots of attention to him, he Geocides in glorious fashion. This is acceptable behavior, right? RIGHT?!?! How else is 'Bob' supposed to get all that attention he so desperately deserves? ;)

 

Bob is a fictional character. Any similarities to persons living or dead is completely coincidental. :o

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bigredmed

+bigredmed

Posted
Posted

The only problem is the selectivity with which the rules are enforced.

 

The cache placement rules are enforced like some kind of religious law. The rules regarding travel bugs are not enforced at all. Hard to respect a system that blinks with such regularity.

 

My main beef with GC is just that.

 

My suggestion:

 

1. Publish RULES (not suggestions, guidelines, or some other wishy washy thing)

2. Define some means of appeal so rules can be clarified and amended as the game progresses.

3. Live by them (all of them...)

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fizzymagic

+fizzymagic

Posted
Posted
If you don't like the rules at geocaching.com, then don't come here.

 

Ah, I see. Love it or leave it. What a complex, nuanced take on the subject.

 

None of the rules seem selfish or pointless to me... if you can't play by the rules, please, for the love of Mike, GO AWAY.

 

Let me see if I get this argument right: the rules are good enough for you, so you think everybody else should live by them and not complain. And you think anybody who disagrees with any of them is selfish.

 

I guess I am confused; I always thought that imposing your rules on everybody else was selfish behavior, but apparently the opposite is true. Wow. I am sure glad we have an impressive moral mind like Mr. Cojones to clear that up for us!

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Sparky-Watts

+Sparky-Watts

Posted
Posted
If you don't like the rules at geocaching.com, then don't come here.

 

Ah, I see. Love it or leave it. What a complex, nuanced take on the subject.

 

None of the rules seem selfish or pointless to me... if you can't play by the rules, please, for the love of Mike, GO AWAY.

 

Let me see if I get this argument right: the rules are good enough for you, so you think everybody else should live by them and not complain. And you think anybody who disagrees with any of them is selfish.

 

I guess I am confused; I always thought that imposing your rules on everybody else was selfish behavior, but apparently the opposite is true. Wow. I am sure glad we have an impressive moral mind like Mr. Cojones to clear that up for us!

Oh, good grief......I thought he spelled it out plain and simple....play by the rules of this site or go somewhere else. Yeah, this site has the right to impose it's own rules, and that is not selfish. Selfishness comes from the feeling that you have the right to disobey those rules because you don't like them, or you feel that they don't apply to you. Nowhere in his post did Mr. Cojones state that you don't have the right to lobby to change the rules, just that everyone should follow the rules that are in place, regardless of whether or not you like them. :o

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Renegade Knight

+Renegade Knight

Posted
Posted (edited)

A local cacher just dropped of the GC.com rader today. They archived everything and Navicache got a loyal customer. The only part of their caches that pushed the envelope was the puzzle to solve them. Yet the trouble of getting them listed finally turned them off this site. As time goes by I hear more and more grumbling on the street over the difficulty of getting caches listed.

 

I became one of the evil rogues who use another site when a cache wasnt approved because I would not list who the people helping me to maintain it were. I placed their privacy over the sites suggested rule (which was later defined as an absolute rule) that I disclose who helping to maintain a cache. It wasn't enough that I had the maintenance covered. However in reality it was and is enough.

 

Time and again in these forums I've spoken up against rules that really don't do much for geocaching. Many of those rules do add to the word on the street I'm hearing. The grumblings are out there. They are not yet a deafening roar but if the trend doesn't change they will be.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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Confucius' Cat

+Confucius' Cat

Posted
Posted
If you don't like the rules at geocaching.com, then don't come here.

 

Ah, I see. Love it or leave it. What a complex, nuanced take on the subject.

 

None of the rules seem selfish or pointless to me... if you can't play by the rules, please, for the love of Mike, GO AWAY.

 

Let me see if I get this argument right: the rules are good enough for you, so you think everybody else should live by them and not complain. And you think anybody who disagrees with any of them is selfish.

 

I guess I am confused; I always thought that imposing your rules on everybody else was selfish behavior, but apparently the opposite is true. Wow. I am sure glad we have an impressive moral mind like Mr. Cojones to clear that up for us!

Not imposing your rules on others is an absolute rule , right?

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flask

+flask

Posted
Posted

rules aren't for me; i'm special. and if i can't drive 135 miles PER HOUR in a school zone, i'll make them lengthen the driveway.

 

now that i've said that, i thought of something useful i wanted to say about rules and guidelines.

 

reputable skydiving guides do not openly lead base jumps. why? because as official representatives of parachute related sports, they can't afford to sanction illegal events or practices.

 

like it or not, gc.com is a (if not THE) field leader and source of record. as long as they get the phone call when there are complaints or blame to be served out, they'll want to have guidelines and rules. (and i bet some of the guidelines they use to avoid hassles are ones they'd rather not have to have. i'll bet it, but i'll also bet they won't say so if it IS true. they couldn't.)

 

you want to play without rules? play at a different table. and don't get me wrong here. you may want to play some of the time without those rules. sometimes you WANT to get quirky. sometimes you want olympic-style wrestling, and sometimes you want the WWF. same activity. different rules.

 

when you play here, submit to the guidelines/rules/edicts. when you play elsewhere, play by their common practices. when it's your table, do whatever you want.

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fizzymagic

+fizzymagic

Posted
Posted
Sparky got my drift well. By all means, lobby to change the rules.

But that's not what you said. If that's what you meant, then why didn't you write it in the first place?

 

What you actually wrote was:

 

If you don't like the rules at geocaching.com, then don't come here.

 

That doesn't sound like "By all means, lobby to change the rules."

 

Maybe a remedial writing class would be helpful.

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Sparky-Watts

+Sparky-Watts

Posted
Posted
Sparky got my drift well. By all means, lobby to change the rules.

But that's not what you said. If that's what you meant, then why didn't you write it in the first place?

 

What you actually wrote was:

 

If you don't like the rules at geocaching.com, then don't come here.

 

That doesn't sound like "By all means, lobby to change the rules."

 

Maybe a remedial writing class would be helpful.

Maybe admitting that you're wrong would be helpful, instead of flaming people who disagree with you. :o

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fizzymagic

+fizzymagic

Posted
Posted
Maybe admitting that you're wrong would be helpful, instead of flaming people who disagree with you.

Why sure, I'd be delighted to.

 

Let's see: Did IC say "If you don't like the rules at geocaching.com, then don't come here?"

 

Yep. So I wasn't wrong there.

 

OK. Is the whole "Love it or leave it" a stupid argument? Yep. I wasn't wrong there either.

 

How about my claim that he called people who don't love the rules selfish? Right again. He did.

 

Did IC then contradict himself by saying that he had no problem with people trying to change the rules? Yep. So I wasn't wrong there, either.

 

So what was it exactly I should admit to?

 

See, you don't understand, Spanky. I don't flame people because they disagree with me; I get annoyed when they make stupid arguments. I understand that you cannot distinguish between good and bad arguments, which makes this very confusing for you. Perhaps if you spent a little less time admiring your own cleverness in your multitude of self-congratulatory posts, you'd have time to learn. But I doubt it.

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ju66l3r

ju66l3r

Posted
Posted

Final score:

 

Fizzymagic 4

Sparky 0

 

It's amazing how some posts in this forum just drive people (myself and fizzy) to agree on a certain topic when we normally don't value the same opinions....

 

Cojones started this topic with the same tired message of "don't like it; leave". That's not even really paraphrased much. If Cojones *really* meant "don't like it...behave long enough to change the rules"...then he *really* didn't come anywhere close to saying it.

 

Of course, either way it was a tired argument. Not only that it came from a tired person who was fed up with their day so they came here to unwind all over the rest of us.

 

It's probably just best if it closed itself and died. The sooner, the better.

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Sparky-Watts

+Sparky-Watts

Posted
Posted
Posters in this topic need to steer clear of personal attacks.  Take issue with the opinion, NOT the person holding it.  Thank you.

Sorry Sparky, I officially recant my previous statement. Your post was abstract and silly. Please accept my appology.

You can blow your apology out yer......ummm...never mind. Some folks just like to attack others when they bring up a different point of view. No skin off my butt. I'm not conceited, I just know I'm good!

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Sparky-Watts

+Sparky-Watts

Posted
Posted
OK. Is the whole "Love it or leave it" a stupid argument? Yep. I wasn't wrong there either.

 

There is no right or wrong as to whether that is a stupid argument, only your opinion vs. others. And that is an off-topic statement compared to the original post.

 

How about my claim that he called people who don't love the rules selfish? Right again. He did.

 

No, he didn't. He told people to quit being selfish by not following the rules. Wrong again.

 

Did IC then contradict himself by saying that he had no problem with people trying to change the rules? Yep. So I wasn't wrong there, either.

 

He never contradicted himself, because his original post said nothing about changing the rules. Half wrong, at least.

 

See, you don't understand, Spanky. I don't flame people because they disagree with me; I get annoyed when they make stupid arguments. I understand that you cannot distinguish between good and bad arguments, which makes this very confusing for you. Perhaps if you spent a little less time admiring your own cleverness in your multitude of self-congratulatory posts, you'd have time to learn. But I doubt it.
.

 

And, for my final point, there you go flaming me again for disagreeing with you. Case closed. :rolleyes:

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aka Monkey

+aka Monkey

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I hereby apologize for my original statement. You're right, it was poorly worded. What I *SHOULD* have said was "OMG Y DONT U ALL GET A LIFE." :rolleyes:

 

Now, let me be serious for a moment: The original point of my message really had more to do with people being selfish than anything else. A few bad apples who won't play by the rules are causing a lot of trouble for people like Jeremy, and could possibly impact everyone else in the long term. I posted the message half tongue in cheek, because while I *AM* sick of selfish people, I certainly realize that it's human nature.

 

I had no idea how seriously the post would be taken, or how nitpicky people would get about my exact wording. I guess there are other aspects of human nature I'm not too excited about either. One of them is trolling, and I shouldn't have posted in the first place.

 

My apologies to those people who I offended. Please un-bunch your panties and go about your regular business.

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Ox

+Ox

Posted
Posted

Can we step back and realize what we're all talking about here? What are we discussing? The Death Penalty? Abortion? The 2004 election? No, we're having heated, unproductive arguments over the rules pertaining to hiding tupperware filled with junk in the woods. :rolleyes:

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aka Monkey

+aka Monkey

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

People who live in the forums tend to be very intelligent. Sometimes, those same people have great difficulty dealing with those who they consider to be "lesser" intellectuals (regardless of whether they are or not).

 

When I read the forums I sometimes try and visualize the person on the other end. A lot of times, I think: Simpson's Comic Book Guy. :rolleyes:

Edited by Indiana Cojones
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flask

+flask

Posted
Posted

whoa, there! i think it's unfair and inaccurate to categorize forum users as either smarter than other people or thinking they are.

 

if you want to argue a position, fine. if you want to point out other people's errors, i think it does little to further the exchange of ideas. even people with poor reasoning skills may have valid opinions.

 

and besides, if i have to choose between smart people and kind ones, i'll take a room full of idiots. any day.

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aka Monkey

+aka Monkey

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
whoa, there! i think it's unfair and inaccurate to categorize forum users as either smarter than other people or thinking they are.

 

if you want to argue a position, fine. if you want to point out other people's errors, i think it does little to further the exchange of ideas. even people with poor reasoning skills may have valid opinions.

 

and besides, if i have to choose between smart people and kind ones, i'll take a room full of idiots.  any day.

Why is it that everything that comes out of my mouth sets someone off on a tirade?

 

I never meant to imply that smart people aren't kind, although I'll still stand by my assumption that people who spend an inordinate amount of time in the forums may have higher intelligence. Note the words assumption, inordinate and may. Just because I believe it doesn't make it true.

 

FizzyMagic is undoubtedly an intelligent guy. He is extremely literate, and very observant. Anyone who would change his premium member name to a subatomic particle and use a humorous take on a Feynman Diagram for his avatar is likely to be pretty smart, or at least very well educated. I'd guess his work is related to particle physics. This doesn't mean, however, that he's automatically right, and it certainly doesn't mean he's polite. But I don't doubt for a minute that he's smart.

 

Finally, may I point out, that betwen the choices of smart people or kind ones, you chose idiots. What do you have against smart and kind people? :rolleyes:

Edited by Indiana Cojones
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Renegade Knight

+Renegade Knight

Posted
Posted (edited)
Why is it that everything that comes out of my mouth sets someone off on a tirade?...

Well now, since you asked. Take if you will the originator of the topic and his angle and wording on the subject. If you weren't a regular I'd of attributed the topic to troll bait instead of a rant.

 

As for smart and nice, for some reason they don't seem to have a whole hell of a lot of correlation. Worse is the brains and wisdom connection. Worst of all are those who think they are smart and remain clueless that they are just loud.

 

Edit: Naturally I don't think that last sentance applies to myself...

Edited by Renegade Knight
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Sparky-Watts

+Sparky-Watts

Posted
Posted
It's probably just best if it closed itself and died.  The sooner, the better.

Man, I hate quoting myself...

 

The moderation options (close thread button) are bottom left on this page, Cojones...

So, why is it that people who disagree with a topic starter or the topic itself are the first ones to scream for it to be closed?

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aka Monkey

+aka Monkey

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I've considered closing the thread a number of times, but since much vitriol has been spread on this topic, I wanted everyone to have a chance to express their views first.

 

We're all adults, I have hopes we can end a thread without it having to be shut down.

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flask

+flask

Posted
Posted

if i HAVE to choose. hoefully i can get both smart and kind.

 

i have lived with both smart dogs and well-behaved dogs. my current dog is dumber than a shovel, but you can leave a turkey sandwich at nose level and he won't touch it unless you tell him he can. gooood dog. have another cookie.

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