Disneyland Cache Archived

March 20, 2004

In situations where caches are placed in areas with alot of foot traffic, It may be wise to use transparent containers so the contents can be seen.

yes, or at least make them very un-scary like an unpainted altoids can or something like that

NORM

Edited March 20, 2004 by wildearth2001

March 20, 2004

Interesting discussion. A thought I had... if I understand the story correctly, it was the local law enforcement that brought in their bomb squad. I cannot imagine this decision to close the park was made by Disney officials alone. In fact, if I had to guess, I'd bet it was the recommendation of the law enforcement to close the park. They may have even made it a requirement. I'm fairly certain the commanding officer on the scene didn't look at the director of the park and say "Well what do you think we should do?"

PS: Just my passing thoughts. This is not an attempt to defend nor justify the parks/police actions.

5.3k · March 20, 2004

Interesting discussion. A thought I had... if I understand the story correctly, it was the local law enforcement that brought in their bomb squad. I cannot imagine this decision to close the park was made by Disney officials alone. In fact, if I had to guess, I'd bet it was the recommendation of the law enforcement to close the park. They may have even made it a requirement. I'm fairly certain the commanding officer on the scene didn't look at the director of the park and say "Well what do you think we should do?"

According to the news story that Cruzin posted, the park was not closed. There was only a 30 minute delay in the opening of a couple of attractions.

The incident did not delay Disneyland's scheduled 9 a.m. opening, but patrons were unable to visit such Tomorrowland attractions as Club Buzz, Innoventions and Starcade until 9:30 a.m.

Edited March 20, 2004 by Stunod

7.2k · March 20, 2004

Heaven forbid some child loses his backpack somewhere in the park. :blink:

March 21, 2004

According to the news story that Cruzin posted, the park was not closed. There was only a 30 minute delay in the opening of a couple of attractions.

Sorry. Thats basically what I was referring too; certain areas of the park were closed.

March 21, 2004

Heaven forbid some child loses his backpack somewhere in the park.

then there are all those strollers jammed together everywherer against attractions. They can carry more than a backpack and are easy to push around.

Edited March 21, 2004 by Cache Viking

March 21, 2004

I believe that the Park is in the practice of checking all guest's bags upon entry. I think they have been doing this since 9-11. But theoretically, anything can get in. Most of the Main Gate workers are senior citizens.

1.6k · March 21, 2004

I wonder if that other cache across the street should be pulled just to be safe?

Wulf

5.7k · March 21, 2004

I wonder if that other cache across the street should be pulled just to be safe?

Wulf

Probably, although the container is less likely to be mistaken for an electronic device.

Off topic, I love your avatar.

--Marky

24.7k · March 21, 2004

Just to add fuel to the fire. We had a local cache that was reported. The cache was checked out by the officers who investigate drugs. Now why are some reported caches leading to a drug investiation while others lead to the bomb squad investigation?

The container in question locally was a decon container. Much more 'scary' than a kids cell phone when you get down to it. Mindset seems to play a part. The police did leave their card in the cache. It said interesting game, good luck.

Edited March 21, 2004 by Renegade Knight

1.6k · March 21, 2004

Maybe the police have been reading some of the logs.

LOL

Wulf

(I'm the pretty one on the left of the AV)

March 21, 2004

I don't think so either but I am sorry, people need to chil out, come on it was inside a cell phone, maybe whoever paniced and called it in should have thought more about, "lets take this to lost and found" more than OMG its a bomb, this just shows that the terrorist are winning in a way Vigalence yes, Panic No

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040312/140/eoe0f.html

Perhaps if this had happened in Los Angeles and not in Madrid last week, your attitude would be a little different.

1.5k · March 21, 2004

Perhaps, but these days, paranoid people will start coming out of the woodwork if I show up someplace with a used gum wrapper and some dental floss. You never know what can be turned into a nuclear device....

7.2k · March 21, 2004

Perhaps if this had happened in Los Angeles and not in Madrid last week, your attitude would be a little different.

Well, it did happen in Oklahoma City. We all know the story behind that.

The irony is Clinton did less to curb the freedoms of the group of people who thought along the same lines as Bush did to the average American after 9-11.

Same as with the previous towers bombing.

In both of those cases the device had to be carried in a truck.

We've had the Olympic Park bombing and various clinic bombings, all carried out by right-wing extremists. The government didn't clamp down on personal freedoms there either.

I don't want to trivialize the tradegy of 9-11, but because of changes that happened--the lose of personal freedoms, government imposed and self induced--the enemy has won. They've succeded in changing our very way of life.

If you don't think it has then you've not looked around. We wouldn't even be having this conversation otherwise. We wouldn't have to be so careful where we put our little boxes of trinkets and that is but one small symptom of this problem.

Edited March 21, 2004 by CoyoteRed

March 21, 2004

Perhaps, but these days, paranoid people will start coming out of the woodwork if I show up someplace with a used gum wrapper and some dental floss. You never know what can be turned into a nuclear device....

I think that I would rather be paranoid and alive that complacent and dead.

As CoyoteRed say, we have to be carful where we put our little boxes of trinkets.

Not only do we need to be aware of the reaction of a non-geocacher finding the cache but we also need to be aware of the possilbe reaction of outsiders who might observe a cacher searching for, finding and/or rehiding a cache.

We have to conceed that what is acceptable post-911 is vastly different to pre-911 and we must adapt accordingly. Was the person who reported this cache to the authorities being paranoid or vigilant?

Apart from anything else, any time we have an incident like this, it's a public relations disaster for geocaching.

2.2k · March 21, 2004

I think that I would rather be paranoid and alive that complacent and dead.

I believe it was Ben Franklin (I could be wrong) who said

"Those who would give up liberty for security, deserve neither"

March 21, 2004

We've had ... various clinic bombings, all carried out by right-wing extremists. The government didn't clamp down on personal freedoms there either.

Actually, various state legislatures, local governments, and sometimes even judges have clamped down on personal freedoms in these cases, by creating buffer zones around the clinics. I'm just pointing out some history here, lets not turn this into an abortion debate please.

March 21, 2004

Perhaps, but these days, paranoid people will start coming out of the woodwork if I show up someplace with a used gum wrapper and some dental floss. You never know what can be turned into a nuclear device....

Wasn't this a MacGyver episode?

March 21, 2004

Perhaps, but these days, paranoid people will start coming out of the woodwork if I show up someplace with a used gum wrapper and some dental floss. You never know what can be turned into a nuclear device....

I may not be splitting atoms in my spare time, but I'm pretty certain you can't make a nuclear device out of a gum wrapper and dental floss.

Toss in a smoke alarm, and we've got another story...

March 21, 2004

Found this link regarding the cache. It's got some pretty good photos. Now that I see what the item actually looks like, if I had found it (and not known about geocaching) I would've definitely been suspicious.

Phone Home Photos

3.8k · March 21, 2004

I would highly recommend that a member of the Southern California Geocachers do some legwork to avoid getting caches banned in the area, and get some state guidelines set up if not already in place.

We had a similar nightmare here in MD 2 years ago when an ammo can was placed near some train tracks. Some hard work with the parks dept and we got a set of guidelines that has allowed caching to thrive in the state, with permission!

Edited March 21, 2004 by mrkablooey

7.2k · March 21, 2004

Actually, various state legislatures, local governments, and sometimes even judges have clamped down on personal freedoms in these cases, by creating buffer zones around the clinics.

I believe that was to protect the visitors and employees of the clinics. Your freedom shouldn't come at the cost of my own.

I'm talking the Patriot Act were an American citizen can be held without counsel, without charges, and on the say of one man. I'm talking about the shutting down of some areas here locally because of the fear someone might bomb some backwoods dam. I'm talking about the FBI's ability to listen to your converstation without reason or oversight.

Mark my words, the tax payers of America will be forking out huge amounts of mone to those who personal freedoms have been violated.

March 21, 2004

I think that I would rather be paranoid and alive that complacent and dead.

I believe it was Ben Franklin (I could be wrong) who said

"Those who would give up liberty for security, deserve neither"

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania

It's one of my favorite quotes.

March 21, 2004

Was the person who reported this cache to the authorities being paranoid or vigilant?

Paranoid, IMHO.

Think about it for a minute. Small box, not on airport property. Too small for a nuclear device. Too far away to damage a runway or an overflying plane. A small box detonating on the ground is an extremely ineffective way to distribute any type of gas or aerosolized chemical or biological agent.

I'm all for "being vigilant," but the problem is that we have stupid people wasting time and resources and every time something like this happens, the general public's level of paranoia goes up a notch. If it goes up enough, you can be certain that the guv'ment will be more than happy to give themselves even more liberties while taking ours away. And the people will vote for it. Pathetic.

Refer to the above quote by Franklin.

Consider Israel. If their population reacted to terrorism in the same way as ours, by now they'd all be locked in their homes asking the government's permission before stepping outside to water their lawns.

March 21, 2004

I have been following this thread and find it interesting. I was talking to my husband and we had a couple of thoughts about caching in disneyland. We could see Disney using this to there advantage. They have just discovered a whole new area to exploit. We realize that this website will not let comercial cahces be listed but Disney does not need this site they could have there own caches in the park.

As a matter of fact they could have huge multi that would take you to every corner of the park and a final where you get your I cached at disney button. They would charge you for the intial coordinates much like charging for a "ride". And even rent GPS'S.

This could be a huge cach cow for them.

How many of you would do this if it was offered??

March 21, 2004

I have been following this thread and find it interesting. I was talking to my husband and we had a couple of thoughts about caching in disneyland. We could see Disney using this to there advantage. They have just discovered a whole new area to exploit. We realize that this website will not let comercial cahces be listed but Disney does not need this site they could have there own caches in the park.

As a matter of fact they could have huge multi that would take you to every corner of the park and a final where you get your I cached at disney button. They would charge you for the intial coordinates much like charging for a "ride". And even rent GPS'S.

This could be a huge cach cow for them.

How many of you would do this if it was offered??

Caches set up by Disney. I would probably do it. Make a trip to do them.

March 21, 2004

A certain Ben Franklin quote seems to come up again and again in threads of this nature.

He also said this:

After crosses and losses, men grow humbler and wiser.

And this:

Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other.

And this:

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

And this:

A little neglect may breed great mischief...for want of a nail the shoe was lost; for want of a shoe the horse was lost; and for want of a horse the rider was lost.

March 21, 2004

How did this cache get approved in the first place without the parks permission to place it there. The last time I saw, Disneyland is private property.

March 21, 2004

How did this cache get approved in the first place without the parks permission to place it there. The last time I saw, Disneyland is private property.

and don't forget commmercial because you need to pay to get it, this is the question that has haunted me this whole time

6.4k · March 22, 2004

That cache probably pre-dates those parts of the guidelines, so it was grandfathered.

March 22, 2004

yes, I have been informed via email that it was grandfathered on the commercial cache

March 22, 2004

A certain Ben Franklin quote seems to come up again and again in threads of this nature.

He also said this:

After crosses and losses, men grow humbler and wiser.

And this:

Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other.

And this:

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

And this:

A little neglect may breed great mischief...for want of a nail the shoe was lost; for want of a shoe the horse was lost; and for want of a horse the rider was lost.

He also said this:

"A man of words and not of deeds, is like a garden full of weeds [...] A man of deeds and not of words, is like a garden full of ________. I have forgot the Rhime, but remember 'tis something the Reverse of a Perfume."

- From the book "Fart Proudly - Writings of Benjamin Franklin You Never Read in School."

4k · March 22, 2004

A certain Ben Franklin quote seems to come up again and again in threads of this nature.

He also said this:

After crosses and losses, men grow humbler and wiser.

And this:

Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other.

And this:

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

And this:

A little neglect may breed great mischief...for want of a nail the shoe was lost; for want of a shoe the horse was lost; and for want of a horse the rider was lost.

He also said this:

"A man of words and not of deeds, is like a garden full of weeds [...] A man of deeds and not of words, is like a garden full of ________. I have forgot the Rhime, but remember 'tis something the Reverse of a Perfume."

- From the book "Fart Proudly - Writings of Benjamin Franklin You Never Read in School."

Didn't he also say this after flying a kite in a lightning storm: "OUCH!!!!!!!!!! What the h*ll was I thinking?!?!?!?!?"

March 22, 2004

Hmmmm...I've got mixed feelings on this, as well as mixed feelings on alot of the posts here.

On the one hand, I kinda dislike the loss of freedoms and liberties associated with the Patriot Act, on the other hand, I'm enough of a realist to understand that there are people in this world whose sole purpose is to kill Americans. Our lives are full of compromises made in the name of safety, from locking your front door at night, to increased airport security, to the Patriot Act. Where do you draw the line as to what is acceptable or not? I believe that line is in a different place for each and every person, and it changes within each person depending on their personal situation. I know that I look at alot of things quite differently since I had kids than I did prior to that time in my life. And things that happen in the world also affect my feelings on what is acceptable or not. Freedoms and liberties are a great rallying cry, but with them come great responsibilities as well.

After seeing pics of the cache in question, I can see even more easily how it could be mistaken for a serious threat, not only the look of the container itself, but also the way it was "stashed". Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting down the cache hider, as I had planned on searching for this cache the next time I went there, and the fact that it was there as long as it was is testament to how good the hide was. Unfortunately, alot changed on 9-11. We all watched as over 3000 American citizens' lives were snuffed out in nearly the blink of an eye. Do you remember your thoughts as the first Tower collapsed? The second? And keep in mind what the terrorists actually used to gain control of the planes; box cutters.

A simple and non-threatening item, but in hind-sight?

Boycott Disney? Why? Because they actually take the threat of terrorism seriously? Because they'd rather err on the side of caution instead of putting the public's lives at risk? The same people ranting that Disney over-reacted would be the first in line to "dadgum" Disney if a bomb went off and killed a high number of patrons, particularly if it came out that the bomb or detonator had been spotted previously and not been taken seriously.

Sorry, but while I lament the loss of the cache, I'm glad that Disney reacted as they did. I also hope that nothing negative happens to the hider, and that no negative publicity about geocaching occurs. If nothing else, it should reinforce the idea that while geocaching is in fact a game, non-players are not "in the loop" so to speak, and since it is a game played "globally", hides should always take into consideration the larger picture of the "who, where, and how" of the area.

24.7k · March 22, 2004

...Boycott Disney? Why? Because they actually take the threat of terrorism seriously? Because they'd rather err on the side of caution instead of putting the public's lives at risk? The same people ranting that Disney over-reacted would be the first in line to "dadgum" Disney if a bomb went off and killed a high number of patrons, particularly if it came out that the bomb or detonator had been spotted previously and not been taken seriously....

You boycott Disney if they prosecute this cache owner because the cache owner meant no harm. Nothing more than that. It's their right and even their obligation to run a safe theme park. In doing that they should use the law against those who deserve it and I would applaud their efforts.

It's fairly simple.

March 22, 2004

Boy, this whole thing reminds me of my Butcher Hill Cache / Jailhouse Cache story.

Only in CA...

2.3k · March 22, 2004

Lots of nice quotes, yadda yadda yadda.

Now for the most important question: How will this affect Disney's take over of GC.com? Will it encourage or discourage them? :wub:

March 22, 2004

Um.......Are there NOT enough attractions at Disney where one could go to enjoy the day / vacation without caching? There must be several caches outside of the park to hunt without having to place or hunt one IN the actual park. Also, I'm a little curious if the placer really thought that he could place a cache, that looks like a cell phone with stuff attached to it and NEVER have it found by park employees to only cause a stir like it did? Come on! I don't know when it was placed but, if it was prior to 9-11 he should've returned to the park and removed it, if it was after 9-11 it shouldn't have been placed at all. Not only was it an inconvinence to park goers but it was a huge threat to the Geocaching name. If I was going to a giant venue such as a theme park, I would make sure NOT to search out a cache. By poking around bushes, public telephones or anywhere like that, is just asking to be detained and questioned, with the end result of possibly ruining a vacation. I can't wait to read the story of some idiot that placed a cache in the middle of a beautiful landscaped entrance to a theme park and writes in the cache description, " You need to bushwack only a short distance...but please, be discreet."

Rich

Edited March 22, 2004 by CTgeocacher

1.8k · March 22, 2004

Speaking as someone who has had a cache taken by the bomb squad, and as someone who found the Disneyland cache, the Disneyland cache is definitely in the top 10% of caches that I've found. Its placement was excellent, having been there since September 2002.

In fact, I suspect the only reason that it was found when it was is because the area had very recently been re-landscaped, according to the cache logs. It was no more inconvenient to Disney or the Anaheim PD than a left briefcase or backpack would have been.

I don't think they overreacted; I don't think this cache was placed poorly. This is one of those times where urban caching and 'homeland security' collide. There are very few urban caches that will absolutely never ever ever be suspected of being an explosive threat. Heck -- there's a bunch of rural caches that could be conceivably threatening. How many times have we shaken our collective heads in amazement that someone thought a cache was a bomb obviously meant to blow up a few crazed forest dwelling squirrels?

If we keep hiding urban caches, we'll keep getting calls from the police who are called to make sure they're safe. I'm OK with that. I don't propose we stop this on either side -- just be aware that it happens. Act legally; expect the police to do their job when they're called.

As the very nice officer who returned my cache told me, the best thing we can do is to list contact information on the outside of the container. Full details of my conversation with the bomb squad (March 2002) are in this forum posting.

Knowing that the Disneyland cache had been grandfathered in, I had this on my watch list hoping that it'd never get archived, because being in a commercial area, I knew it'd never get unarchived again.

Oh well. As others have said, it's not like there's nothing to do in the area. But I'll always remember this cache fondly.

March 22, 2004

Our lives are full of compromises made in the name of safety, from locking your front door at night, to increased airport security, to the Patriot Act. Where do you draw the line as to what is acceptable or not?

Locking your front door isn't a compromise, it's just smart. Where's the compromise in that? What are you giving up in exchange for protecting your property?

Freedoms and liberties are a great rallying cry, but with them come great responsibilities as well.

That's right, and many (if not most) people aren't willing to accept those responsibilities to maintain those freedoms and liberties. (This is where "the terrorists win," in case you weren't paying attention. )

Boycott Disney? Why? Because they actually take the threat of terrorism seriously? Because they'd rather err on the side of caution instead of putting the public's lives at risk?

Speaking only for myself, I've been boycotting Disney for a long time now, for a lot of reasons. I don't hold their actions in this case against them at all. The kicker for me was when I read how they essentially duped an entire community out of their properties, buying them up under the guise of a generic development company while going to great lengths to make sure that their intentions for the use of that land didn't become public. They paid pennies on the dollar for the land that would later become Disney World. Some would call it smart business; I call it dirty, underhanded, immoral and unethical. They don't get my money because they don't deserve it, plain and simple.

March 22, 2004

Wow. That groundskeeper must have been in a really awkward position to find that cache by accident. I found that cache and it was hard to reach it even when you knew where it was. You had to sit on the curb by the phones and reach way back under the staircase to get it. There is no way (IMHO) that it was found by accident. A cacher must have been seen replacing it and it raised suspisions.

Jason

March 22, 2004

Disneyland was orchards when Walt bought the land.

Disneyworld was swampland in the midle of nowhere. The only thing of interest in the area was few baseball spring training facilities.

March 23, 2004

Hmmmm...I've got mixed feelings on this, as well as mixed feelings on alot of the posts here.

On the one hand, I kinda dislike the loss of freedoms and liberties associated with the Patriot Act, on the other hand, I'm enough of a realist to understand that there are people in this world whose sole purpose is to kill Americans. Our lives are full of compromises made in the name of safety, from locking your front door at night, to increased airport security, to the Patriot Act. Where do you draw the line as to what is acceptable or not? I believe that line is in a different place for each and every person, and it changes within each person depending on their personal situation. I know that I look at alot of things quite differently since I had kids than I did prior to that time in my life. And things that happen in the world also affect my feelings on what is acceptable or not. Freedoms and liberties are a great rallying cry, but with them come great responsibilities as well.

Well said. I, too have somewhat mixed feeling about Disney, the Patriot Act, etc. But really...have YOU PERSONALLY had your freedom infringed on since 9-11? Since the Patriot Act was adopted? Look, you really only have something to worry about if you have something to hide. I haven't been pulled over and detained for questioning for anything becaue I'm not an radical Islamic Fundamentalist, but hey, that's just me. Maybe you have. But all I'm saying is that I just don't think it's as big of a "personal freedoms" issue as some of you make it out to be. I sleep better at night knowing that the Patriot Act is helping our law enforcement personnel hunt down those terrorists "... in this world whose sole purpose is to kill Americans." I'll wait in line at the airport a little longer, thank you. And I'll keep locking my door at night!

As far as this cache goes, I do hope it blows over...I hope the guy isn't prosecuted because, as someone else mentioned, ther was no malicious intent, just maybe bad judgement on not getting landowner permission (which Disney would never have approved, I know.) We have several caches in our area that you need to enter a federal park (US Army Corps of Engineers regulated.) They are fine with caching (with permission from the rangers), and the parks charge a small fee for entry. I wouldn't consider these "commercial" caches, but if you're not into paying to do a cache, then just skip these (or any that require access to a paid area)--there's plenty of other ones to do!

March 23, 2004

If Disney sets up their own caches on their property, you'll have to wait in long lines to log them.

As much as I dislike urban micros, this seems to have been a great one.

Do you expect Jeremy to crack down on grandfathered hides now? Disney may threaten to take gc.com to court for knowlingly abetting the violation of the park safety...

March 23, 2004

Cruzin,

Actually, locking my front door is a compromise, as well as being smart. I'm old enough to remember not having to do that. I could go to sleep at night without having to check/lock the doors, close the windows, lock the car doors, etc, without worrying about getting ripped off. Now I lock the door, the deadbolt, close the windows, lock the patio door...and when I leave my house, turn on the alarm. What am I giving up? Time, energy, and a general feeling of security. Is it a small price to pay? Sure it is, and that was my point. Even though I long for the past when it wasn't necessary, I'm willing to make that small sacrifice of time and effort to maintain the safety and security of my family in today's world.

Taranwanderer,

I agree with you, as far as the Patriot Act, it is has not affected my life at all, at least not in a tangible way. Any erosion of freedoms makes me uneasy to a point, but at the same time I understand the need for some of those actions. As long as citizens are informed and vigilant, I think a balance can always be found. In response to 9-11, I just don't see that the Patriot Act has strayed too far from that balance.

I'm reminded of when I was young. I had long hair (hippie) and drove a customized van. I was also watched like a hawk by local law enforcement and got pulled over by the police quite often. At the time, I would complain to my dad, saying that it was wrong, that I had every right to wear my hair the way I wanted and to drive whatever I wanted without being harrassed by the police. While he agreed with me in principle, he also helped me to realize that those who are employed to ensure the public's safety have a tough job to do and must "play the odds", so to speak. The odds that a long-haired hippie in a custom van was up to no-good were much better than the odds were for the little old lady in the sedan behind me. So if I wanted to express my rights to my hair and van, I should expect to be watched more closely than some others who "appeared" more conservative. I've learned that in many cases, "Perception is reality", good or bad.

Edited March 23, 2004 by 4x4van

March 23, 2004

I'm reminded of when I was young. I had long hair (hippie) and drove a customized van. I was also watched like a hawk by local law enforcement and got pulled over by the police quite often. At the time, I would complain to my dad, saying that it was wrong, that I had every right to wear my hair the way I wanted and to drive whatever I wanted without being harrassed by the police. While he agreed with me in principle, he also helped me to realize that those who are employed to ensure the public's safety have a tough job to do and must "play the odds", so to speak. The odds that a long-haired hippie in a custom van was up to no-good were much better than the odds were for the little old lady in the sedan behind me. I've learned that in some cases, "Perception is reality", good or bad.

Your dad sounds like a very smart guy. That's a great way to explain it.

March 23, 2004

Your dad sounds like a very smart guy. That's a great way to explain it.

Yeah, the older I become, the smarter he gets!! :rolleyes: Don'cha hate it when that happens?

March 23, 2004

Your dad sounds like a very smart guy. That's a great way to explain it.

Yeah, the older I become, the smarter he gets!! Don'cha hate it when that happens?

Isn't that the truth. Then we become our dads and pass it to our kids. My son is 8 and just figuring something is up. It will be his turn one day.

Great post 4x4Van

March 23, 2004

Has there been confirmation that the cache was what was found?

I found a letterbox clue that looks like it was in the same area and was much more recent. It also seems to have been in a location that was more likely to be discovered by a landscaper, especially in light of the fact that the cache has not been accidentally found in over a year.

March 23, 2004

Isn't that the truth. Then we become our dads and pass it to our kids. My son is 8 and just figuring something is up. It will be his turn one day.

I've been told that whatever you put your parents through, your own kids will put you through double. With my three kids, I'm beginning to believe that, particularly with my oldest daughter in high school now.

You know how when you're a kid, your parents always told you, "You'll see..."? I'm starting to see, and it ticks me off! :rolleyes:

Disneyland Cache Archived

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