Policing Ourselves

[+Nurse Dave]

So I think there are two parts to policing ourselves. One is making sure people put caches in areas that are legal to get to, don't harm the environment...etc

 

The other part is as a cache owner not letting people log finds that arean't really finds. I've seen logs from people that were stopped at locked gates from getting to the cache, to an approver posting they couldn't find the trail to the cache so they moved on. Part of hiding a cache is to not cheapen the finds of people that actually find the cache and write in the cache page by letting stuff like this stay as a find.

 

From the gc.com guidelines for hiding a cache:

"The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements."

 

Not to mention on a personal note it's just sad to see people thinking it's okay to cheat the system in some way by posting that stuff in the first place.

Edited March 19, 2004 by Nurse Dave

[+Sparky-Watts]

Pass the popcorn...I've seen this movie before, but it's always fun to watch it again!

[+Barnacle Bear]

"The System" (Geocaching.com) cannot be compromised or cheapened. This place is part library, part phone book and part town square where we can share ideas and express opinions.

 

The System does provide some statistics. But it does not foment comparison or hierarchy. Being human (mostly) the cachers do all the rest to themselves. The forums promote this because anyone can say almost anything while hiding behind their chosen 'handle.' Only the moderators keep it from oozing down to the gutter talk of CB radio. They do a great job.

 

We live in a society of political correctness. Because of that we avoid criticism and judgement. There are always extenuating circimstances which much be considered and debated. The forums is where this happens. Isn't it great that the system designers saw the wisdom of a place where cachers can vent?

 

There will always be those cachers who will do most anything to make themselves look good. They think that thousands of us are checking their stats on a daily basis. Let them think that. Keep you stats any way that you please. You are the only one who really cares about what you have accomplished.

 

The System gives us a very good way to keep track of what we have done. At allows us to inspire others and make fools of ourselves if we so choose. And it allows yoyos such as me to pontificate on things that mean little to anyone but ourselves.

 

BB

[+JMBella]

Not much to argue with there. Not sure about the cheating the system part. I think players that log bogus finds are cheating themselves, subsequent cachers that think the cache is still there and the cache owner.

[+Sparky-Watts]

"The System" (Geocaching.com) cannot be compromised or cheapened. This place is part library, part phone book and part town square where we can share ideas and express opinions.

 

The System does provide some statistics. But it does not foment comparison or hierarchy. Being human (mostly) the cachers do all the rest to themselves. The forums promote this because anyone can say almost anything while hiding behind their chosen 'handle.' Only the moderators keep it from oozing down to the gutter talk of CB radio. They do a great job.

 

We live in a society of political correctness. Because of that we avoid criticism and judgement. There are always extenuating circimstances which much be considered and debated. The forums is where this happens. Isn't it great that the system designers saw the wisdom of a place where cachers can vent?

 

There will always be those cachers who will do most anything to make themselves look good. They think that thousands of us are checking their stats on a daily basis. Let them think that. Keep you stats any way that you please. You are the only one who really cares about what you have accomplished.

 

The System gives us a very good way to keep track of what we have done. At allows us to inspire others and make fools of ourselves if we so choose. And it allows yoyos such as me to pontificate on things that mean little to anyone but ourselves.

 

BB

Well, you're one of the more eloquent yo-yo's I've read in a while!

[CoyoteRed]

"The System" (Geocaching.com) cannot be compromised or cheapened.

Actually, "the system" is not Geocaching.com. While at the moment gc.com has 98% of the geocaching activity, it is not the totality of geocaching.

 

From what I get from ND's post, "the system" refers to the mechanism of posting a find online and the trust that others give to that log. Most of the time only the type of log is ever looked at. For instance, in the total number of finds, only the fact that the visit was logged as a find counts, not the fact that the person actually visited the cache. Part of "the system" includes the cache owner verifying the log is accurate and if the log type means the cacher visited the cache then the cacher actually visited the cache.

 

If the owner fails to verify a log and the log is false, then there is misplaced trust. We're trusting the log-type to be accurate, but the cache owner has failed us by not verifying the find.

 

You could even carry it further in that if an owner fails to correct a false log, then he is breaking our trust.

 

Because of the wide spread mistrust on logs, it appears that a lot of people simply don't want to put any stock in the numbers. They pass it off as if it doesn't matter. Why should it? It's bogus anyway. I know I look at a certain cacher and know the numbers are padded. I've caught them and called them on it.

 

However, there are some of us whose logs you can trust. We verify logs. If you didn't find it, don't claim a find. Don't be stupid enough to say you're treating it as a virtual as you know it's missing. Just because it's missing doesn't mean it's automatically a virtual. And especially don't embarrass yourself by letting me go and find that it's still there.

 

So, you see, "the system" can be any geocaching site that allows online logging. [EDIT:add clarity]That includes the people that use that site, not just those that run it.[/EDIT]

 

And some of us want the system to work and we do our best to make it so.

Edited March 19, 2004 by CoyoteRed

[+Nurse Dave]

Yep

[+wray_clan]

Bogus logs and stuff...well...it's just pointless. I've found 140 caches, and it's pretty satisfying to sit back (this is an odd figure of speech; I'm not really sitting back, like in a chair) and think about all of the work and searching and time that I've put into it and say (another odd figure of speech, I'm not really saying this out loud) "I have found 140 caches, and I am proud of it!" Having x number of finds and having cheated to get those finds just would be, kind of....pointless. You would know it was all a lie and it's kind of hard to be proud about a lie.

 

Also, when people don't cheat, you admire them. Think about CCCooperAgency (along with BruceS, Team Alamo, and other cachers in that tier). It's amazing to see how much they find and mind-boggling to think that they actually found all of them. Think of it like baseball: steriods is cheating, people do it to reap results, but everybody's against it. When one finds out that another is cheating, with fake logs or steriods, all of their records are instantly speculated, disregarded or put into shame with an asterisk. It also puts the records of the honest people (such as Hank Aaron or CCCoperAgency) under speculation despite the fact that they were earned honestly.

 

I just felt motivated to say something.

[+Nurse Dave]

That's funny. At least one of those cachers you listed above has a log in the thread about loging no finds as finds.

[+Cache Viking]

Pass the popcorn...I've seen this movie before, but it's always fun to watch it again!

The Geocide will be in a couple days after the Dead Horse is Beat a few more times.

 

Pass this over to Sparky.

[+Bloencustoms]

I understand the concept of finds, but disagree somewhat about the policing thing for a couple of reasons. I have never personally logged a find online that I didn't find in the field. (This means open the cache and leave written evidence of my presence, whether it be my username, or the name of a team I was caching with.)

 

I have, however allowed cachers to log a find on caches that I own when they have turned up missing on a couple of occasions. On two such occasions, the cacher accompanied me to the cache sight and pointed out the exact location where the cache had been hidden. If it had been there when they searched, they would have signed the log then. I let them sign the log in the new container that I replaced.

 

On another such occasion, I allowed a find on a cache that had turned up missing. The cacher emailed me to describe the remains of the velcro I had used to secure the cache, and it's position. This is another case where the cacher should not be penalized for my poor choice of placement. (Too many nosy muggles, cache easily discovered.) They did all the work to go get it, only to be denied at the very culmination of the search?

 

Is this unfair? It might be, but no more unfair than going through three stages and over 20 miles round trip only to find that some muggle discovered the cache. In the case of the multi, if the individual stages were caches unto themselves, they would have had finds anyway.

 

Finally, the game is supposed to be fun. It's no fun to be denied a find due to circumstances you can't control, and for no lack of effort on your part. In the end it's up to the individual cacher to decide whether they want to log it as found. While I wouldn't do so myself, I don't have a problem with other people doing it. But then, I'm not competing for anything.

[CoyoteRed]

That's funny. At least one of those cachers you listed above has a log in the thread about loging no finds as finds.

I think I know which one you're talking about, too. It always sticks in my craw when people hold them at such high regard. I know better.

 

Now, I ain't saying they're are total cheats, but I just wonder how many of their logged finds would past muster with me!

 

It's been a while back, but can you tell it still bothers me?