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Why I Tn/ln/dnsl/dnsol Almost All Of The Time


ckhd

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Why I TN/LN/DNSL/DNSOL almost all of the time.

 

I know it’s long, but read it ALL before you gripe.

 

Just to clarify: TN/LN/DNSL/DNSOL = Took Nothing/Left Nothing/Did Not Sign Log/Did Not Sign Online Log.

 

I had to post this after all the licking/whining/crying going on. Yes, I may be a ‘newbie’ to Geocaching, but I am, in no sense of the word, a ‘newbie’ to GPS, the ‘outdoors’ and the wilderness. I’ve used GPS technology since 1990, and have only lived where I can get cable TV for 7 years during life (right now is not one of those times either). I have spent countless nights outside and countless days hiking through dense forests. Right now, I live surrounded by National Forest. My house is so far away from power lines, that it would cost me upwards of $80,000 to get ‘real’ electricity (I rely on solar). The phone company won’t even talk to me about service. Four wheel drive isn’t an option for me, there are many days out of the year that I would have to stay home if I didn’t have it. My children know about bears and mountain lions. They know that when their pet cat or dog disappear suddenly, it’s most likely because of a mountain lion or coyotes. They also know that they need to be careful, because they could become a bear or lion snack. Many people come up from the city, and camp in my driveway (which is about ½ mile long) and think that they are ‘roughing it’ to the extreme. I am not a ‘newbie’ when it comes to those things.

 

Now that you know a little about me, on to the point.

 

I discovered Geocaching in January. Stumbled across it. At first, I was excited. What an idea! Hide stuff, then see if others can find it. I went and found a few.

 

Not nearly as exciting as I first thought it was. I did SL on the first few. Two were on the side of the highway that I drive every day. Wow. Amazing. How wonderful to find a little itty-bitty Tupperware container so close to the road, that if I had a flat there, and pulled off to change the tire, that I might have run it over.

 

One was actually at a scenic place, that was a tiny bit harder to get to, but I had been to that spot so many times in my life, that it just wasn’t that amazing. In fact, it was part of my dad’s ranch at one time. So far, it had been the most interesting by far.

 

I did find one early on that was actually quite interesting. It was one next to a local graveyard that I didn’t know existed. I learned a little history there. That one, even though it was right next to the road, was worth stopping for, even though the best thing in the cache was two McDonald’s ketchup packets (totally serious).

 

Now days, I’m very selective about the geocaches I look for. If it’s rated 1/1, what’s the point? I probably drive past it twice a day anyway. I’m not going to let a ‘cacher’ waste my time by making me stop, find a deteriorated Tupperware container that has pocket change and McDonald’s ketchup in it. They might as well just put in the coordinates of an actual McDonald’s. At least I could log a find of “Took Dr. Pepper, Left $1.50”.

 

If it’s got a higher rating than 1/1, I’ll think about it. Recently there was a new cache placed in my area that had a higher rating, and compared it to cliffs in Great Britain, so I thought that it would be worth a look. I stopped by on my way past, made the short, moderately steep hike and found the cache. I have to say it was worth the hike. The cliffs were cool. They also reminded me of the cliffs the cache owner thought of. I took something, left something, signed log, signed online log. It WASN’T a waste of my time, therefore I logged it.

 

Bottom line is that if it was a waste of my time, I’m not going to trade or sign logs. If it was worth me stopping, I’ll at least sign the log in the cache and most likely the online log – and trade if I have something to trade.

 

In fact, I was the ‘first to find’ of a cache just two days ago. It was rated at 1½/1. It should have been rated at ½/½. It completely wasted my time and gasoline, but it was my own fault. I had a hunch it wouldn’t be worth looking for, but I went anyway.

 

Then, on top of all that, I get on the forums and see total hypocrisy. In one thread, users will say that signing the log is a must, and logging online should be done, and then in the next thread, 30 seconds later, say that Geocaching is all about the find, not numbers.

 

What are we competing for? Did I miss the thread that stated someone was giving away a mansion in Beverly Hills to the cacher with the most finds? Is it a million dollar prize? Why do people get so upset?

 

That brings up another thing. The same people that say it’s all about the hunt, also gripe, moan, and complain when they say someone is ‘cheating’ (he logged 80 finds in one day). How can you cheat? Seriously, how can you cheat at something like this? Why are people crying “foul” when there is no such thing as a foul? How is this person cheating you? Do you seriously feel inadequate in the shadow of their false claims? Do you seriously think that geocachers are so stupid that they will believe someone that in just a few days goes from a newbie to having quadruple-digit cache finds? People know what’s going on. I also can tell you that MOST geocachers don’t care. Go ahead and pad your stats, it’s not only no skin off my nose, but it is also NONE OF MY BUISNESS.

 

All of that has led me to decrease my interest in Geocaching. No, I’m not giving up. I’m not committing “forumicide”. I still look online to find caches that I might like to go find, but I’m not wasting my time with all the ketchup caches. If it looks interesting, and it ends up being a valid use of my time, I’ll log it. Otherwise, I won’t.

 

Oh, and for the DNF whiners, I have logged the one DNF, and will log all DNFs I encounter.

 

I have shifted to benchmark hunting. Why? Well, primarily because there isn’t a ‘benchmark owner’ that is going to cry. I also don’t have to look forward to trying to come up with a good trade to get the used McToy from a benchmark.

 

I’m also not benchmarking for ‘stats’. One of the first benchmarks I looked for had been monumented in 1980. A mere 24 years ago. It was a very easy find, right where the description said it was. Big deal. I decided that I wasn’t going to look for anything that had been found within my lifetime, focusing on ones previously listed as “did not find”. It has been much more rewarding than looking for Tupperware that was hidden in the middle of town last week. It gives me a great deal of satisfaction to find a benchmark that either hasn’t been found since before 1970, or to find one that the USGS has lost. It is at least a challenge.

 

I know that the Government didn’t put the benchmarks in notably scenic or interesting areas, but so far, benchmarks have lead me to much more interesting places than 90% of the geocaches I have found.

 

In conclusion, gripe about me doing TN/LN/DNSL/DNSOL all you want. It isn’t going to change the fact that if you waste my time with the cache, I’m not going to waste any more of it by logging it. Make a cache that is worth while, and I’ll log it.

 

Now, gripe away… I’m going out to find some benchmarks.

 

 

edited to fix the word "gasoline"

Edited by ckhd
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Ha! Welcome to that which is the forums!

 

Sorry that the caches in your area are not as well stocked as most of the ones I run into up here in Boston. Even our 1/1's have a bit more than change and ketchup in them and they're almost never roadside.

 

I'm glad you've found a way (benchmarking) to enjoy the sport in your own way and I'd suggest that, as you've noted, you simply let all of the stuff that goes on here in the forum roll off of your back.

 

Thanks for giving us your insights and while your game is a tad more masochistic than mine (I tried finding old old benchmarks once....ugh...the mental anguish of *that* hunt for me...no thanks), I'm glad it suits what you're looking for.

 

PS - Very cool on the solar power!

 

EDIT: I mistook this random 4-letter ID for the random 4-letter ID in Florida of similar caching style. 10 Forum points to Mopar for noticing...10 more for PMing me about it. -5 to the rest of you for not being as observant.

Edited by ju66l3r
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First of all, this hobby wasn't built around YOU. It was made for lots of different people and families. Some caches were made to be easy so parents can have a fun time with their kids and enjoy a family moment. Some people find easy caches because that's all they can physically do and enjoy the short walks and the nice scenery. Maybe some caches are junk and aren't as good as some others, but I will aways log the finds on the logbook and online because that is the nice thing to do. I made the choice of wasting my gas on 1/1's because I like this hobby and I feel that by visiting caches the least I owe to the cache owner is to tell them I was there. By logging DNF's you also alert the cache owner that the cache may be missing. Even most "newbies" understand the basic concept of why they log on the logbook and online. I'm sorry if YOU waste your gas on caches that aren't up to your level, but those caches weren't placed there just your YOU to find. Get off about yourself, help others, be courtious, and enjoy this great hobby we call Geocaching!

 

edit: sorry, thought I was first to reply!

Edited by radman_7_of_8
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ckhd - how would anyone know anything to gripe about your tn/ln/dnsl/dnsol......unless, of course, you made a point of posting about it here?

 

Sounds to me like you're protesting too much over nothing - or maybe you shouldn't waste your time reading the forums.

 

Anyway - no one really cares whether you personally sign any logs. Most of us only hope that finds and DNFs are generally logged. Is someone in your area giving you grief over this? If not, then explaining yourself online is a waste of time.

 

It's your game. Play it how you want, so long as it's harmless.

 

-ST

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The reason I posted this I have been reading the forums since I started geocaching (yeah, just 3 months), and common reoccuring themes are: ghost cachers (which I am), people who trade crappy (which I don't because I almost never trade), people who "cheat", which is impossible (and I don't pad my stats), and people who don't notify at all when they have a DNF.

 

Starship Trooper, if you want to see what I'm "protesting" over, just go back to the thread list. You'll see prime examples.

 

Radman, I know it wasn't built around me. It wasn't built around you either. If I remember my geocaching history, it wasn't 'built' to be like what it has 'evolved' into either. And as stated, I DO log DNFs. I also don't really care if the cache itself is junk, as long as it has some worth to it. I am also not saying that I disapprove of junk caches, or of 1/1 caches. I am simply stating to the complainers of 'ghost' cachers why I usually don't log. I think it's good when people take their kids out to 1/1 caches. I myself, take my boys (4 and 6) to caches and benchmarks. My 4 year old even easily made it to the cliff cache I went to rated at a 3/4. I think you missed my point all together.

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It's your game.  Play it how you want, so long as it's harmless.

Well said.

 

Besides, I'd rather you TN/LN/DNSL/DNSOL than post a find as "This cache was a waste of my time, gasoline, and energy" and make the 6 year old who poured his heart and soul into the perfect spot cry.

Again, I agree. You're playing the game the way you want to play, and you are enjoying it, so I don't see a problem. Not logging that it was a disappointment to you is better than making someone feel ashamed of the cache they worked hard to place. Do your own thing and have fun, that's what it's all about anyway, right? <_<

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If I could press a button and make it so my caches couldn't be found by people who do exactly what ckhd do I would. I can't so I don't sweat it other than to say the only reason I place caches is for feedback. Hopefully positive but I'm every bit as selfish as ckhd is and want all the feedback, the same way that he only wants true and worthy finds.

 

The real irony is that I've seen a benchmark or two and to me the worst cache is better than the average benchmark. It's almost funny to hear the long tale of "If your cache isn't worth my time I won't waste any more of it logging, but I like benchmarks"

 

Oh and what the heck does living in a remote area have to do with anything? So have I and all it does is remind me that of all of civilizations advances, it's TP I'd miss the most if it was gone.

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Radman, I know it wasn't built around me. It wasn't built around you either. If I remember my geocaching history, it wasn't 'built' to be like what it has 'evolved' into either. And as stated, I DO log DNFs. I also don't really care if the cache itself is junk, as long as it has some worth to it. I am also not saying that I disapprove of junk caches, or of 1/1 caches. I am simply stating to the complainers of 'ghost' cachers why I usually don't log. I think it's good when people take their kids out to 1/1 caches. I myself, take my boys (4 and 6) to caches and benchmarks. My 4 year old even easily made it to the cliff cache I went to rated at a 3/4. I think you missed my point all together.

I'm glad that you log your DNF's, I probably just missed reading it. What do you mean by worth? Like if the cache has more valuable stuff in it, or if it has nice scenery. Caches can have different affects on people. Some people can think it's bad, some others can think it's good cache, but it's also a nice thing if they all log their finds. I had one person visit my first cache, wrote in the logbook, but not online. I didn't have a problem with it until I noticed that he had taken someone's travel bug and never logged it. It went MIA and was never seen again. I'm not saying that you do that, but not signing the logbook or online doesn't help anybody either. Maybe logging online isn't as bad if you don't have access to a computer, but it only takes 5 seconds to write "TNLN Thanks for the cache, Whoever". People like to know how their cache is doing, and love the stories that come with it. Even the boring caches deserve the courtesy of having the logbook signed. If you have time to get online to get the waypoints for the cache, you have enough time to at least say you were there.

 

That's great that you take your kids on caching trips, but just because your kid can do a 3/4 doesn't mean other kids can also. I know you said that you know that GEOCACHING doesn't revolve around you, but it sounds like you expect everyone to be able to do what you can do. And by saying that a 1/1 cache that you found is a waste of gas and time, I know you said it, but if you know it's your fault, why are you complaining at the cache owners for your mistake of finding their cache? It's your fault and not the cache owner. If the cache is in bad need of archiving or replacing, that would be a nice thing if you alerted the cache owner of the mess to clean it up.

 

Not to mention that it is a rule to at least write in the logbook.

 

I also agree, though, that by not logging online is the way you want to play, then I can't stop you, or anybody else for that matter. Most of the stuff I said above is not the rules, but suggestions. It's just a nice and decent thing to write in the logbook and online.

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I also don't log online the finds which I don't consider interesting (mostly easier, nothing special kinds of caches), but there must be some reason I go there in the first place, right? Usually I either expect something interesting, or go for the swag. In the latter case at least a paper log is a must. If travellers are moved, it also requires at least a note posted online.

Now at least once I posted a note (because TB trades and first-finder prize were involved), and the other cacher I met at the cache site posted a find. He became worried that I am such a purist that I won't even log a find because he helped me locate it! Bottom line - sometimes people will be surprised or even offended if they don't see your logs as expected ... and maybe sometimes it's worth logging a find just to be nice to the others, even if there isn't any other good reason. Gotta think of it.

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Interesting discussion -- but what's the bottom line? Seems pretty simple.

 

The guy who started this thread enjoys some goecaching and benchmark hunting (as do I), and is happy with the way he plays the game. He likes a challenge and is selective about signing logs. Others have their own approach. I pretty much go after any nearby cache and often will drive some distance to do challenging caches. I don't compete with anyone for most finds. But that is my game. Who are we to judge the games that others play, as long as they do us no harm?

 

HM

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the only reason I place caches is for feedback

RK, do you want lots of feedback or interesting feedback?

If the 1st, then place easy caches, and you'll receive a constant stream of "OWNER: somebody found" e-mails, and you shouldn't care if a small percent of the finders didn't log it.

If the 2nd, than hide your stuff in creative and crazy ways, and you'll get many more direct e-mails from the seekers, and DNFs, and posted notes, and maybe add'l threads in local and gc.com-wide forums ... and no ghost cachers quetly grubling that they just wasted time and gas ... but there may be months passing before somebody actually logs a find.

Bottom line - in neither case you would have a reason to complain about not getting the feedback you deserved!

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How can you cheat? Seriously, how can you cheat at something like this? Why are people crying “foul” when there is no such thing as a foul? How is this person cheating you? Do you seriously feel inadequate in the shadow of their false claims? People know what’s going on. I also can tell you that MOST geocachers don’t care. Go ahead and pad your stats, it’s not only no skin off my nose, but it is also NONE OF MY BUISNESS.

 

I guess you missed all the posts from people who were lured out to a missing cache and spent extra time looking for it, thanks to a fake "found it" log. If you waste my time it becomes my business.

 

It's apparent that you aren't considerate enough to thank someone for taking the time, effort and expense to place a cache, just because you felt it wasn't challenging, or interesting enough for you. People don't place caches for YOU. There are families with children who love 1/1 caches, as well those who prefer them because of physical limitations. Personally I don't care for them. I won't go out of my way to look for a 1/1, but if one happens to be nearby and I have time, I'll will. And if I do find it, it isn't beneath me to thank the owner for placing it in my logs. Just the way I was brought up I guess.

Edited by briansnat
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I don't frequent the forums here as much as I did -- but here's a suggestion. HIDE some. Hide some that will inspire other cachers in your area to do the same, because in some situations, imitation IS a form of flattery.

 

Well, unless you get a dozen of those light pole hides... <_<

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...Don't make me get out the padle!

peepwall.gif:D

you'd better put the cat back. i love that little kitty. don't make me get out the paddle. <_< or the whips and chains.

OH YEAH! I challenge you to a paddle, chain, and whip match! First person to bleed loses!

 

Will somebody please close this thread before me and Uperdooper get into an all-out blodfest! B):D:DB)B)

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WHO THE HELL CARES!? This TOPIC is a waste of time.

 

I agree. Time would be better spent complaining about people who take good stuff from caches and leave a couple of cheap AA batteries and call it a "signature item."

You forgot about the magnet that goes along with the batteries. For the record if I take something that I think is worth more than a couple of batteries I'll leave a dirty golf ball too.

 

BTW, We could also spend time complaining about trolls and sock puppets.

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WHO THE HELL CARES!? This TOPIC is a waste of time.

 

I agree. Time would be better spent complaining about people who take good stuff from caches and leave a couple of cheap AA batteries and call it a "signature item."

hey! i've needed those batteries before. don't knock the batteries. <_< i once took a homemade sig item and left a $8.00 padlock. the cache has been archived since then. i haven't asked for the padlock back. i left something that cost more than what i took. i thought it was a good trade.

Edited by uperdooper
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I hope people who find my caches will log online because I like knowing who found it and when. Reading the logs is part of my enjoyment of placing the cache. But I can't make anyone do that, and don't intend to try to. I suppose if a person felt one of my caches was a "waste of time" and chose not to log because of that, I might even agree about the lack of a log. Why waste my own time with a log that would do nothing more than illustrate that the finder doesn't like that type of cache? For example, a log stating that a 1/1 is a viewed to a particluar person as a "waste of time" would only leave me scratching my head wondering why they bothered to go look for it in the first place. But a log that my cache was a "waste of time" because it was damaged or full of water etc. would certainly be helpful and I would like to know that kind of information. I particularly hope people will log DNFs because I and others need to know if the cache is missing.

 

It was mentioned that complaints about lack of logs and cheating is inconsistent with statements that it is about the hunt and not numbers. I think that is too broad. Many don't care much about personal stats in the sense of feeling competetive about them. Yet, those same people don't want to see others cheating. I'm not sure that is tied to competetiveness so much as to a general dislike for liars. Also, the numbers ARE important to some people and that is OK too.

 

Anyway, you make some interesting points ckhd. I do think that you shouldn't seek out any caches lower than about a 3/3. From your comments, I think you would consider most caches under that to be a waste of time for you (although I see that you liked a few under that). That is OK, nothing wrong with that.

 

There are those that prefer 1/1 caches for a variety of reasons and would not do the more difficult ones. There are those that like only the difficult ones. There are those that like all of them. Nothing wrong with any of those. I won't bash someone for liking the types of caches that I don't like and hope they will treat me with equal courtesy. I also hope that people who don't like my caches will still log, but I'll live if they don't.

Edited by carleenp
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I don't frequent the forums here as much as I did -- but here's a suggestion. HIDE some. Hide some that will inspire other cachers in your area to do the same, because in some situations, imitation IS a form of flattery.

 

Well, unless you get a dozen of those light pole hides... <_<

Amen brother! :D

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I hope people who find my caches will log online because I like knowing who found it and when. Reading the logs is part of my enjoyment of placing the cache. But I can't make anyone do that, and don't intend to try to.

I do think people should at least sign the logbook. Then, when you go make a maintenance visit to your cache, you will have the pleasure of enjoying the handwritten logs from people who didn't log online.

Edited by Innovational Cacher
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This is one of the reasons why we have been Letterboxing more. Every Letterbox you find is unique. The stamp is unique. Even if you find it "on the side of the highway" (have not found any there by the way) that stamp you find will be unique. You go into it expecting a stamp, unique to that box. No need to hope for persons that traded up/equal, etc. I'm not here to bash Geocaching as that is how we discovered Letterboxing but with Letterboxing you find the stamp or not.

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I do think people should at least sign the logbook.  Then, when you go make a maintenance visit to your cache, you will have the pleasure of enjoying the handwritten logs from people who didn't log online.

Your opinions (all 10 that you have posted in these forums since you registered with GC.com two days ago) seem to be founded on extensive geocaching experience. Is your father a geocacher? How many handwritten logs have you enjoyed?

 

I enjoy handwritten logs, too...and the online logs (and I've read plenty of them).

Somehow, I just can't be bothered if someone chooses to not log a visit, for whatever reason. Actually, I could care less if someone wants to log any of my caches multiple times.

 

And if my opinion happens to annoy anyone else, I really don't care about that either.

 

Now I feel much better. Where's that little disappearing kitty? :blink::bad:

 

Edited: For spelling and to add:119047_16300.gif

Edited by sept1c_tank
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Every Letterbox you find is unique. The stamp is unique.

It's like every person and every box has it's own "personal trade item" and that is the stamp impression.

 

I've long thought the idea of "stamping up" far superior to "trading." I don't know, it could be the 150 years of evolution.

 

Sissy likes the trading aspect and seeings how "she is the one that must be obeyed" we put out caches with letterboxing stamps. :blink:

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I don't frequent the forums here as much as I did -- but here's a suggestion.  HIDE some.  Hide some that will inspire other cachers in your area to do the same, because in some situations, imitation IS a form of flattery.

 

Well, unless you get a dozen of those light pole hides...  :blink:

Amen brother! :bad:

I plan on hiding. I'm just not going to make a 1/1. I plan on making a 5/5 where people will complain that I didn't rate it at a 5/7 (I have the location picked out already). I am also planning on making it more that a $10 cache.

 

Not something I can buy at the dollar store and hide on the way to work.

 

I'd only be able to do maintenance once or twice a year, but from what I've seen, that's about all that normal caches get anyway.

 

Also, I won't cry or complain when a ghost cacher finds it, or when a fake cacher logs it.

 

 

Also, to clarify: I am NOT saying to change geocaching, I'm not complaining that there are 1/1 caches, I'm not complaining about anything really. My sole intent was to enlighten the people who are so upset at 'ghost' cachers as to why I ghost cache. I also am fully aware that people with limited mobility cache, and it's awesome that there are caches accessible by them. Keep placing 1/1 caches, there are people that love/want/need them. I hope I am never at the mobility point that I need 1/1 caches, but if I ever am, I may be one of those that love them, right now, I'm not. Let's move past 1/1 caches. I am also fully aware of ALL the other posts suggesting I have overlooked some point. I didn't. If I'm stupid enough to go on a big cache hunt that ends up logged last by a fake cacher, and it ended up not being there, oh well. I'll know for next time to look at a users stats who logged it. Aside from that, if it wasn't worth getting there anyway, I'm stupid for going to find it. If I get there and I felt like it was worth it, I'll log it. If I get there, the whole area sucks (it's a city dump or something), but didn't find the cache, I'LL LOG IT AS A DNF.

 

I did stray from my original intent a little, and I apologize, but it all factors in to why I ghost cache. I know many of you don't like it. I know that some of you are mad at me, and I know that many of you don't like me for it. I don't care. Your approval of me is not my validation in life, I'm sorry.

 

If you don't want me to scrutinize your cache, and then only attempt it if I feel like it, to only not log it if it sucks, go ahead and make it a member's only. It won't hurt my feelings!

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What is the problem . . .

 

Geocaching is a game . . . seek & hide the caches you choose, have fun and enjoy yourself. What is so difficult about that?

 

Am I the only one who gets it?

 

Happy caching and stuff! :blink:

i have been saying that for a long long time. no one listens to that argument

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What is the problem . . .

 

Geocaching is a game . . . seek & hide the caches you choose, have fun and enjoy yourself.  What is so difficult about that? 

 

Am I the only one who gets it?

 

Happy caching and stuff:blink:

i have been saying that for a long long time. no one listens to that argument

Everyone is ignoring that due to fear that the forums will be a boring empty place without argument (which may or may not be true). That is my theory anyway! :bad:

 

I have to admit that sometimes I am amused by all the angst. Other times it gets a little old.

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As I've seen in other forums and I agree with, there are few rules in this game and that's the way we like it. Everyone plays it their own way. I for one find some sick pleasure in trading one useless McToy for another one. As I have read the posts I am going to try to upgrade my trades a little. As a noob I have traded train flattened pennies and such but I am still learning. To me the benchmark hunting isn't any fun because there isn't any stash to sort through. I tend to sit for 15-20 minutes reading the past logs and deciding what to trade. its part of the fun for me. And that's what is so great about this sport. As long as you are not diminishing the enjoyment of others, do whatever makes you happy. I got a Lilo & Stitch toy from McDonalds last week and was thrilled. :blink:

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As long as CKHD is having a good time and likes finding caches that are physically challenging that his right. In many ways I agree with him, I usually pass on 1/1 rated caches because I like the challenge of hiking to a location that is deeper into the woods. I may not have found as many caches as most, but I have had caches where by the time I do three in one park I have hiked for three or four hours and had a great time.

 

While I'm not sure where he lives I bet he probably knows of some locations that match his goals for Geocaching and might meet the goals of other cachers. I would encourage him to place one or two caches and see what happens.

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Everyone is ignoring that due to fear that the forums will be a boring empty place without argument (which may or may not be true). That is my theory anyway! :blink:

I don't ignore it. I argue for it. In fact, some of the best times here are when I argue for it against someone else who claims they argue for it as well. I think the best corollary is the ACLU where everyone loves them when they keep the government from overstepping its bounds on issues that appeal to everyone, but when they defend a racist organization's right to free speech, suddenly they're deemed evil and unadmirable and their valid arguments are given deaf ears.

 

Equal protection is equal protection. I would like to be enabled to play the game my way as much as anyone else would like it their way as well. In the genuinely few instances where those ways are truely antithesis (raw - pirating), there are compromises (refined - alien hunting) that allow us both to continue on with our ways. This has always been my case behind ghost cachers, freeing up virtual listings, intentionally offsetting random caches, statistics, and pretty much every other argument I've ever picked up here that I felt was worth lengthy discussion.

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You know, It just occured to me that a ghost posting is an oxymoron and quite funny. I mean if it's not worthy of a log, why is it worthy of commenting on not doing a log? The lack of a log sure as hell won't make a bad cache go away and the owner will be blissfully unaware that they wasted the time of a person whos time they would of enjoyed wasting. A ghost's time isn't worth any more than anyone elses. Hell they may think they are special, and they are. Just like everyone else.

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I plan on hiding.  I'm just not going to make a 1/1.  I plan on making a 5/5 where people will complain that I didn't rate it at a 5/7 (I have the location picked out already).  I am also planning on making it more that a $10 cache.

 

GOOD! Inspire me -- make me WANT to hunt it and achieve.

 

I also am fully aware that people with limited mobility cache, and it's awesome that there are caches accessible by them.  Keep placing 1/1 caches, there are people that love/want/need them.  I hope I am never at the mobility point that I need 1/1 caches, but if I ever am, I may be one of those that love them, right now, I'm not. 

 

I hope I have that chance someday, if the game as we know it is still alive then. As my Dad is fond of saying (insert THICK southern accent here), "If I thought I'd ever live this long, I would have taken better care of myself!"

 

If I get there, the whole area sucks (it's a city dump or something), but didn't find the cache, I'LL LOG IT AS A DNF.

 

Good, log 'em -- that's the best way (aside from regular cache maintenance) that we hiders know that one has gone missing. I frequently get DNFs, but it's usually because they missed my sneakier ones... :blink:

 

I haven't looked at your profile so I don't know where you are or what the "cache ratio" is there, but from my limited experience, some areas are a LOT better than others. One area may be "light-pole and dumpster hell" for hides, another area may make you scratch whatever your preferred body part in wonder.

 

I say again -- inspire me! While I can't make a 10-mile-long hike in the mountains for a find due to crappy knees, I love a fun and unique challenge!

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ANNOTATED:

 

Why I TN/LN/DNSL/DNSOL almost all of the time.

 

I know it’s long, but read it ALL before you gripe.

 

Just to clarify: TN/LN/DNSL/DNSOL = Took Nothing/Left Nothing/Did Not Sign Log/Did Not Sign Online Log.

 

I had to post this after all the licking/whining/crying going on.

 

Seems like more of the same to me!

 

Why did you feel you HAVE to post on this subject when you DON’T feel you have to post a simple ‘thanks’ to the players who placed the caches that you have found?

 

<what’s the relevance of this?>Yes, I may be a ‘newbie’ to Geocaching, but I am, in no sense of the word, a ‘newbie’ to GPS, the ‘outdoors’ and the wilderness. I’ve used GPS technology since 1990, and have only lived where I can get cable TV for 7 years during life (right now is not one of those times either). I have spent countless nights outside and countless days hiking through dense forests. Right now, I live surrounded by National Forest. My house is so far away from power lines, that it would cost me upwards of $80,000 to get ‘real’ electricity (I rely on solar). The phone company won’t even talk to me about service. Four wheel drive isn’t an option for me, there are many days out of the year that I would have to stay home if I didn’t have it. My children know about bears and mountain lions. They know that when their pet cat or dog disappear suddenly, it’s most likely because of a mountain lion or coyotes. They also know that they need to be careful, because they could become a bear or lion snack. Many people come up from the city, and camp in my driveway (which is about ½ mile long) and think that they are ‘roughing it’ to the extreme. I am not a ‘newbie’ when it comes to those things.

 

Now that you know a little about me, on to the point. </what’s the relevance of this?>

 

So, you live in a wild place – by choice? Is that some sort of justification for your attitude?

 

I discovered Geocaching in January. Stumbled across it. At first, I was excited. What an idea! Hide stuff, then see if others can find it. I went and found a few.

 

Not nearly as exciting as I first thought it was. I did SL on the first few. <caches are placed by different people with a variety of abilities>Two were on the side of the highway that I drive every day. Wow. Amazing. How wonderful to find a little itty-bitty Tupperware container so close to the road, that if I had a flat there, and pulled off to change the tire, that I might have run it over.

 

One was actually at a scenic place, that was a tiny bit harder to get to, but I had been to that spot so many times in my life, that it just wasn’t that amazing. In fact, it was part of my dad’s ranch at one time. So far, it had been the most interesting by far. </caches are placed by different people with a variety of abilities>

<part of the game>I did find one early on that was actually quite interesting. It was one next to a local graveyard that I didn’t know existed. I learned a little history there. That one, even though it was right next to the road, was worth stopping for, even though the best thing in the cache was two McDonald’s ketchup packets (totally serious). </part of the game>

 

<and what’s new?>Now days, I’m very selective about the geocaches I look for. If it’s rated 1/1, what’s the point? I probably drive past it twice a day anyway. I’m not going to let a ‘cacher’ waste my time by making me stop, find a deteriorated Tupperware container that has pocket change and McDonald’s ketchup in it. They might as well just put in the coordinates of an actual McDonald’s. At least I could log a find of “Took Dr. Pepper, Left $1.50”. </and what’s new?>

 

If it’s got a higher rating than 1/1, I’ll think about it. Recently there was a new cache placed in my area that had a higher rating, and compared it to cliffs in Great Britain, so I thought that it would be worth a look. I stopped by on my way past, made the short, moderately steep hike and found the cache. I have to say it was worth the hike. The cliffs were cool. They also reminded me of the cliffs the cache owner thought of. I took something, left something, signed log, signed online log. It WASN’T a waste of my time, therefore I logged it.

 

Bottom line is that if it was a waste of my time, I’m not going to trade or sign logs. If it was worth me stopping, I’ll at least sign the log in the cache and most likely the online log – and trade if I have something to trade.

 

In fact, I was the ‘first to find’ of a cache just two days ago. It was rated at 1½/1. It should have been rated at ½/½. It completely wasted my time and gasoline, but it was my own fault. I had a hunch it wouldn’t be worth looking for, but I went anyway.

 

<signing a log is not about numbers>Then, on top of all that, I get on the forums and see total hypocrisy. In one thread, users will say that signing the log is a must, and logging online should be done, and then in the next thread, 30 seconds later, say that Geocaching is all about the find, not numbers. </signing a log is not about numbers>

 

What are we competing for? Did I miss the thread that stated someone was giving away a mansion in Beverly Hills to the cacher with the most finds? Is it a million dollar prize? Why do people get so upset?

 

That brings up another thing. The same people that say it’s all about the hunt, also gripe, moan, and complain when they say someone is ‘cheating’ (he logged 80 finds in one day). How can you cheat? Seriously, how can you cheat at something like this? Why are people crying “foul” when there is no such thing as a foul? How is this person cheating you? Do you seriously feel inadequate in the shadow of their false claims? Do you seriously think that geocachers are so stupid that they will believe someone that in just a few days goes from a newbie to having quadruple-digit cache finds? People know what’s going on. I also can tell you that MOST geocachers don’t care. Go ahead and pad your stats, it’s not only no skin off my nose, but it is also NONE OF MY BUISNESS.

 

Possibly for the same reason that they would stop one kid beating up on a smaller kid – just a feeling that it is wrong.

 

All of that has led me to decrease my interest in Geocaching. No, I’m not giving up. I’m not committing “forumicide”. I still look online to find caches that I might like to go find, but I’m not wasting my time with all the ketchup caches. If it looks interesting, and it ends up being a valid use of my time, I’ll log it. Otherwise, I won’t.

 

Oh, and for the DNF whiners, I have logged the one DNF, and will log all DNFs I encounter.

 

I have shifted to benchmark hunting. Why? Well, primarily because there isn’t a ‘benchmark owner’ that is going to cry. I also don’t have to look forward to trying to come up with a good trade to get the used McToy from a benchmark.

 

I’m also not benchmarking for ‘stats’. One of the first benchmarks I looked for had been monumented in 1980. A mere 24 years ago. It was a very easy find, right where the description said it was. Big deal. I decided that I wasn’t going to look for anything that had been found within my lifetime, focusing on ones previously listed as “did not find”. It has been much more rewarding than looking for Tupperware that was hidden in the middle of town last week. It gives me a great deal of satisfaction to find a benchmark that either hasn’t been found since before 1970, or to find one that the USGS has lost. It is at least a challenge.

 

I know that the Government didn’t put the benchmarks in notably scenic or interesting areas, but so far, benchmarks have lead me to much more interesting places than 90% of the geocaches I have found.

 

<is this a gripe in its self?>In conclusion, gripe about me doing TN/LN/DNSL/DNSOL all you want. It isn’t going to change the fact that if you waste my time with the cache, I’m not going to waste any more of it by logging it. Make a cache that is worth while, and I’ll log it.

 

Now, gripe away… I’m going out to find some benchmarks. </is this a gripe in its self?>

 

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Briefly, MY feeling, which I will post without my background as some kind of justification, is that every cache that someone has placed deserves at least the COURTESY of being logged.

People placing caches are of different abilities and ages and have different facilities and resources available to them. They also have no control over trades made in their caches.

It’s about simple respect as I see it.

If you need a challenge, and if geocaching does not supply it, so be it. It seems that coming on a GEOCACHING forum to say how lame you feel caches are is d@##&d rude at best.

Edited by bug&snake
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