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Cache Quality Evolution


Dobtown

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I'm fairly new to this hobby, however, I've already noticed an interesting trend:

 

WHY IS IT THAT . . . the original contents of a cache are always much more interesting and valuable than the junk that eventually gets placed in them? I was just wondering if anyone else is bothered (not seriously like we're angry) by this!

 

I'm not asking people to spend a fortune on items, far from it. But maybe a little creativity and quality control is in order?

 

I have appreciated the caches that have a theme and nicely ask visitors to keep with the theme. Also, the location of a cache sometimes helps to keep the quality up. Usually someone who hikes 20 miles and builds a boat to get to a cache will leave something of quality!

 

But sometimes the items placed in the cache are so unoriginal and cheap that I wonder how anyone can justify taking a flashlight and replacing it with a cardboard "I love Britney" coin. Is our society really that greedy? Ha, ha.

 

Share your thoughts, fellow Geocachers! Or are the TNLN's doomed to looking at this junk forever?

Edited by Dobtown
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When I first started and put out my first cache I did just that. I put some brand new stuff in it, only to have the contents turn to trash after a couple weeks.

 

Honestly I was quite miffed about that at the time. I wasn't quite as annoyed to see junk in other caches since they weren't mine, and I didn't really care if I traded for anything or not.

 

But after seeing more and more caches, I too discovered that the swag quality goes down pretty quick. Although, even when I was FTF a cache, sometimes the original contents aren't all that exciting either.

 

So I stopped worrying about it. I enjoy hunting for the cache and signing the logs more than trading for stuff anyway.

 

Those with kids might have a different opinion on this though.

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Well, it is a GITO (garbage in, treasure out) world isn't it. I rarely trade any more. If I do I usually exchange some little trinket for another and leave the item I took from that cache in another cache. Haven't really found anything worth "collecting" or using in any meaningful way. In the majority of instances, I'm satisfied with TNLNSL. Or TN, left some token item, SL. The fun, IMHO, is in the hunt.

Edited by gallahad
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I dont as a general rule trade unless my son is along. But I always have some goodies on me for a cache in need or in case I do see something I'd like as a memento. Sadly, I think alot of people just dont care. Society as a whole is all about "me" and it bleeds over, even into caching <_<

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I've seen this topic come up several times. The majority of the responses seem to be in the vein of "The fun is in the hunt. TNLN." I agree that the hunt is fun, but so is the trade! If the majority of cachers give up on trading then I’m afraid this sorry trend of junky cache contents will continue. On the other hand if the majority of us try to improve each cache a little bit by trading something decent, even it means trading out junk, then maybe we can reverse the trend. At worst, we can make the experience of the next person to find the cache a little better.

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Yes, the quality of any cache degrades quickly. Fed up with these disappointing results, more and more cachers will place logbook-only micros, resulting in the eventual extinction of the full-sized cache.

 

I hope not! I usually never get dissapointed with what is in the cache. If you don't expect to find anything great, you'll never be disapointed. When you do find something cool, it's just icing on the cake. I try to be creative with what I leave in the cache, by making my own signature keychains. I always leave those, plus a few unique bouncy balls, and whatever else I can find. I can't afford to leave anything expensive.

 

Of course we all know people cache for the searching and the finds, rather than what's inside the cache. When you find a cache with "crap" in it, take it as an oportunity to be generous and leave a handful of whatever you brought, instead of just one or two things. Maybe everyone won't be generous, an try to up the coolness of the items in the cache, but at least you will. Maybe the person who finds it after you will have kids with them, who will think what you left is the coolest thing ever. Maybe the adult with love what you left as well.

 

I think the only thing we can do, is leave the cache in a condition you would like to find in, and hope the next person will have a more positive experience than you did. Also, since kindness and generosity are often contagious, maybe others will start doing the same.

 

When it comes down to it, we are still going to great lengths to find tupperware in the forest. What were you expecting? <_<

 

EDIT: After reading AC Student's response, it seems I said pretty much what he did. I think he is right on the money.

Edited by SBPhishy
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Don't worry about it.

 

In a year you'll be happy to even find an ammo box with swag in it. Either that or micros will go the way of the virtual. One of the two. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

In the meantime, especially if it looks a little empty, leave it better than you found it.

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Yes, the quality of any cache degrades quickly. Fed up with these disappointing results, more and more cachers will place logbook-only micros, resulting in the eventual extinction of the full-sized cache.

 

I hope not! I usually never get dissapointed with what is in the cache. If you don't expect to find anything great, you'll never be disapointed. When you do find something cool, it's just icing on the cake. I try to be creative with what I leave in the cache, by making my own signature keychains. I always leave those, plus a few unique bouncy balls, and whatever else I can find. I can't afford to leave anything expensive.

 

Of course we all know people cache for the searching and the finds, rather than what's inside the cache. When you find a cache with "crap" in it, take it as an oportunity to be generous and leave a handful of whatever you brought, instead of just one or two things. Maybe everyone won't be generous, an try to up the coolness of the items in the cache, but at least you will. Maybe the person who finds it after you will have kids with them, who will think what you left is the coolest thing ever. Maybe the adult with love what you left as well.

 

I think the only thing we can do, is leave the cache in a condition you would like to find in, and hope the next person will have a more positive experience than you did. Also, since kindness and generosity are often contagious, maybe others will start doing the same.

 

When it comes down to it, we are still going to great lengths to find tupperware in the forest. What were you expecting? <_<

 

EDIT: After reading AC Student's response, it seems I said pretty much what he did. I think he is right on the money.

Oh, I also hope not...I was just illustrating a hypothetical response to the constant degradation of cache contents...I still enjoy finding a full-sized cache, after all the micros in the city...

I have seen your keychains! Gotta find me one of those-they are very nice!

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I'm starting to only take signature items for my collection. But I really LIKE leaving cool stuff. I'm am avid shopper, love to find cool things on sale and then put them into caches. I have a couple of bags ready to go right now. I have always received great pleasure in giving and nothing makes me happier than when I read a log and someone has picked up something we left. I try and get cool stuff, so it's fun to see that others appreciate that. Maybe I'll feel differently in a few years, but I don't think so. At Christmas I make and fill dozens of stockings for co-workers. I have for years and I still love to do it. At Easter, I buy, fill and hide hundreds of those plastic eggs for colleges to find. Both of these activities are at my own expense and I do because I think it's fun. Same with shopping and cool swag. I like to do it. I bet there are others like me and as long as there are, we will do as much as we can to upgrade the caches we find. Life is to short to be bitter about the crappy caches! <_<

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Well, it is a GITO (garbage in, treasure out) world isn't it.

 

But why?

 

1) Are people more greedy than they are giving? I.e., they deliberately 'trade down' in order to achieve some financial gain?

 

2) Do people simply go out unprepared to trade? I.e., they carry few or no trade items but when they find a nice item in a cache they feel like they have to trade something and thus put whatever junk they have in their pockets into the cache.They are not deliberately greedy but rather thoughtlessly greedy.

 

3) Do people wish to "trade even" but just do not bring valuable enough trade items along? I.e., they have a bunch of $2-$3 items in their geocaching bag but when when faced with a cache full of the $10-$20 items they do not have enough goodies to trade even (it would take at least 5 of their items to equal one of the cache's items) and therefore just trade for as good as they can.

 

4) Do people wish to "trade even" but without price tags can not tell the value of the trade items. As an example, I recently found a 1977 silver dollar in a cache. Obviously it is worth at least a buck but, not being in mint condition, is worth only that? Or $2? Maybe $10? Ditto with rocks or fishing lures or bracelets -- I can't figure out if I am trading up, even, or down. Value is in the eye of the beholder. A child will teach you that quickly.

 

Anyway, my question is "why is it a GITO world?" I would hate to think that is because of reason #1 (people are greedy), am cynical to think that it is reason #2 (people are unprepared), and hope that it is only because of reasons #3 (don't bring valuable items along) or #4 (don't know the value of traded items).

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WHY IS IT THAT . . . the original contents of a cache are always much more interesting and valuable than the junk that eventually gets placed in them?

 

Not true. A lot of the time they start out with junk and get worse. <_<

 

I think one problem is that people think they are trading even if they leave a bunch of junky things in return for something nice. I've often seen logs like "took Mini Mag Lite, left an acorn, 17 cents in change, a movie ticket stub, some pocket lint and a wrapper from a Snickers bar ". OK not that bad, but close.

Edited by briansnat
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Maybe the better term is "Cache Quality Devolution" :D

 

I admit it...I still like to trade stuff! I've got a shelf full of goodies here in my office and I love adding cool stuff to it. I also love it when I'm able to leave a cache richer than I found it. <_<

 

I've seen both sides of this: caches filled with crap and caches that maintained a lot of nice things. One of my own caches has stayed amazingly full of great items over the past year and a half. Sometimes I wonder if that's not due to the location - it's kind of difficult to get to. Maybe people feel like leaving something of a little more quality at difficult locations.

 

Also, I have a particularly difficult multi that gets very few visits. I purposefully stocked it with some GREAT items as rewards for people who were up for the challenge. I expect this one to degrade because I wouldn't think too many people will be carrying stuff that matches it.

 

Come to think of it though, not many people have been trading at that cache. Maybe I need to leave a note that says, "Please take something nice, you've earned it!" There's a thought.

 

Bret

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Even after 300 caches I still like to trade . . . but there are times when I don't because the cache is filled with junk. I'll throw in a couple decent booty-nuggets if I deem the cache to be worthy (i.e. a good hike, good location, etc.) even if there is nothing worthwhile to trade.

 

My advice is that if you have nothing to trade then don't take anything and don't trade your trash for the good stuff others leave.

 

Trade fairly and have fun!

 

That is my opinion . . . such as it is.

 

Happy caching and stuff! <_<

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Is it considered brutally rude to make it a rule of your cache that the finder must trade even to log it. i am placing my first, with a variety of trade items from cheap to better, so that anyone who comes can trade no matter what they bring with them. Would there be a huge backlash if i started deleting logs from cachers who traded down? i don't mind those that don't trade. i'm feeling like a jerk just asking this question, so i've probably answered it for myself already, but some feedback would be cool.

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Is it considered brutally rude to make it a rule of your cache that the finder must trade even to log it.

 

I think it's wrong to deny any legit find. Besides, who's to decide what is even? I wouldn't want that responsibility as a cache owner. It will just create hard feelings and make you very unpopular in your area.

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Its simple micro-economics my friend. The benefit of the item taken must be greater than the cost of the item left, otherwise they wouldn't trade. Some people, of course, put utility value on the happiness of others and therefore gain marginal benefit by leaving a nicer item than taken. But for the most part, I find that economic cost/benefit analysis proves to be the rule for just about every activity in life, including geocaching.

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I have to admit to being one to trade something silly for something else silly. but I'm learning. I am getting excited about the little goodies in the checkout aisle at the store. I plan to start trading up just for the feeling that the next person will be happy with what they find. And I apologise to the people following me in my noob zone that got the crap from my junk drawer. :blink: I promise I'll get better.

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:bad: I think that the creators of these caches should do more in regards to housekeeping and maintaining them once in a while. I have found some of the junkiest caches! Now when I find a catch I do a Garbage Out. Come on...

Old Sticky candy? Bar B que sauce pakets? Moldy Stickers? Hotel Lotion thats turned green and separated? 7 eleven match books? 3D glasses with the lens punched out? Old pens that don't write anymore? Jeez...... :blink:

J&B

Los Angeles

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Is it considered brutally rude to make it a rule of your cache that the finder must trade even to log it. i am placing my first, with a variety of trade items from cheap to better, so that anyone who comes can trade no matter what they bring with them. Would there be a huge backlash if i started deleting logs from cachers who traded down? i don't mind those that don't trade. i'm feeling like a jerk just asking this question, so i've probably answered it for myself already, but some feedback would be cool.

"Is it considered brutally rude to make it a rule of your cache that the finder must trade even to log it."

 

It would simply be ignored.

 

"Would there be a huge backlash if I started deleting logs from cachers who traded down?"

 

Yep! A rule against leaving a lesser value item for an item of greater value is not realistic, fair or even enforceable. Your subsequent deletions of legitimate find logs would put you in the "hot seat" wherein you would become the subject of a forum topic wherein you would find supporters and detractors. But it would be a lively topic.

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I'm closing in on my hundredth cache and I think I'm going to start trading signature items only. I'll carry a few nice trade items for special caches that have items worthwhile for trading. Really folks the geojunk should be left at home...Hysteria

Edited by Hysteria
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:bad: I think that the creators of these caches should do more in regards to housekeeping and maintaining them once in a while. I have found some of the junkiest caches! Now when I find a catch I do a Garbage Out. Come on...

Old Sticky candy? Bar B que sauce pakets? Moldy Stickers? Hotel Lotion thats turned green and separated? 7 eleven match books? 3D glasses with the lens punched out? Old pens that don't write anymore? Jeez...... :blink:

J&B

Los Angeles

It is not the creators of the cache that downgrade the contents.

 

I will soon have 85 physical cache containers placed. I have put most of them in very interesting places - places I want people to see, whether it is the drive to the cache or the immediate cache location.

 

After I saw what happened to my first three I no longer restock my caches as a general rule.

 

I also remove the type of junk you referred to from mine or anyone elses I come across. It is a communal maintenance program feature that many cachers provide.

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What about the ethics of taking out the trash items in a cache that isn't yours? Peeling stickers, wall tiles, battery packages that have fallen apart, etc?

 

John

It is best to trade out the trash rather than just removing it. If you take out trash and leave a decent trade item you can feel great about improving the cache and the experience of the next finder.

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I will soon have 85 physical cache containers placed...After I saw what happened to my first three I no longer restock my caches as a general rule.

Not to be too disrepectful of a person who has been around longer than myself, however perhaps 85 caches is too many for you to handle? If you can't keep them up then just let them go. Perhaps another cacher -- more proactive than yourself -- in your area would be happy to place and maintain one of his/her own in a location currently occupied by one of your caches but can not because of the 0.1 mile rule.

 

Granted, it is not up to the cache owner to keep his/her caches fully stocked all of the time, but a person can make and keep up good caches. Not only in terms of nice areas but also in terms of a non-trashy swag. I try to keep all 3 (soon 4 -- whee!) of my physical caches in good condition. If I had 85 caches not only would there not be enough time to visit all of them but also I would go broke maintaining them.

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I will soon have 85 physical cache containers placed. I have put most of them in very interesting places - places I want people to see, whether it is the drive to the cache or the immediate cache location.

 

After I saw what happened to my first three I no longer restock my caches as a general rule.

 

You don't need to restock them, but I do hope you are at least maintaining them.

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Well, it is a GITO (garbage in, treasure out) world isn't it.

 

But why?

 

1) Are people more greedy than they are giving? I.e., they deliberately 'trade down' in order to achieve some financial gain?

 

2) Do people simply go out unprepared to trade? I.e., they carry few or no trade items but when they find a nice item in a cache they feel like they have to trade something and thus put whatever junk they have in their pockets into the cache.They are not deliberately greedy but rather thoughtlessly greedy.

 

3) Do people wish to "trade even" but just do not bring valuable enough trade items along? I.e., they have a bunch of $2-$3 items in their geocaching bag but when when faced with a cache full of the $10-$20 items they do not have enough goodies to trade even (it would take at least 5 of their items to equal one of the cache's items) and therefore just trade for as good as they can.

 

4) Do people wish to "trade even" but without price tags can not tell the value of the trade items. As an example, I recently found a 1977 silver dollar in a cache. Obviously it is worth at least a buck but, not being in mint condition, is worth only that? Or $2? Maybe $10? Ditto with rocks or fishing lures or bracelets -- I can't figure out if I am trading up, even, or down. Value is in the eye of the beholder. A child will teach you that quickly.

 

Anyway, my question is "why is it a GITO world?" I would hate to think that is because of reason #1 (people are greedy), am cynical to think that it is reason #2 (people are unprepared), and hope that it is only because of reasons #3 (don't bring valuable items along) or #4 (don't know the value of traded items).

1. Some are. Yes, there are some cachers that seem to try to gain advantage in their trades.

Bigger cause is lack of ability to get good geoswag at prices and volumes needed to keep up with caches.

 

2. This happens more often than not, and the best way to avoid being a geotrasher is to TNLN when this comes up. (Never go to the store without your money, and never go geocaching without your swag-bag.)

 

3. SINGLE BIGGEST PROBLEM!!! It isn't the money, its the coolness factor. If you take a CD of jazz music, leave something equally COOL, not 1 $15 CD out and 5 crappy $3 items in. Again, if the swag-bag can't swing it, then be a mensch and TNLN.

 

4. Again, its not about money, its about cool. Items are cool when they serve a purpose or strike a person as particularly neat or interesting. If you think something is truly cool and leave these kind of items all the time, you will be doing your part to keep the caches in your area from declining too rapidly into geotrashe containers.

 

:blink:

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fter I saw what happened to my first three I no longer restock my caches as a general rule.

 

After seeing what has happened to my caches, I restock as a rule. I think the 30th finder should have as good as an experience as the 3rd. And after seeing the disappointed look on the faces of my young niece and nephew when they found a cache full of garbage, I try to make sure that the same thing won't happen with a cache that I own.

Edited by briansnat
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fter I saw what happened to my first three I no longer restock my caches as a general rule.

 

After seeing what has happened to my caches, I restock as a rule. I think the 30th finder should have as good as an experience as the 3rd. And after seeing the disappointed look on the faces of my young niece and nephew when they found a cache full of garbage, I try to make sure that the same thing won't happen with a cache that I own.

:blink: Yay. Now that's the right attitude. Good Job!

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Not to be too disrepectful of a person who has been around longer than myself, however perhaps 85 caches is too many for you to handle? If you can't keep them up then just let them go. Perhaps another cacher -- more proactive than yourself -- in your area would be happy to place and maintain one of his/her own in a location currently occupied by one of your caches but can not because of the 0.1 mile rule.

Would love it if someone else wanted to place caches near mine. In our immediate area only 2 caches have been placed by someone other than me in the past 12 months.

 

We live in a visitor destination area and our caching visitors appreciate our efforts. Number and rate of hits are very low and our caching visitors are conscientious so restocking is not as much an issue as it is might appear to be.

 

But, again, given a choice I'm sure our returning cachers would rather I place new containers for them rather than focus only on keeping the old ones stocked up (which they would not visit). New visitors appear happy to have the quantity and variety of cache sites.

 

Only 5 of our regular containers are located in populated areas away from our home. For our remote area caches I'm not sure those visitors would choose to have no cache at all rather than a constantly restocked one. But those are the options. When a container needs a logbook or gets waterlogged (rare) I either do maintainance or archive and remove it but I don't make a special trip to restock.

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I just recently went to one called the WindCave here in CA. It was literally half full of trash. We CITO the trash contents and added a couple extra trinkets that we brought. Seems to be the norm for my son. Leave 4-5 items and take one that he ends up adding to the next one.

 

Hey Viking, those caves are in my area. Do you live in Santa Barbara? I didnt think there were any other cachers out here that I didnt already know.

 

We (me and geostrykyr) just found your "hiking vikingson" (I think that was it) TB in geostrykyrs cache. Cool little bug.

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I turned into a tnlnsl person because I was sick of Mctrash. I am not expecting to find a $100 bill, but I got sick of finding junk. In one I found a mouse with the cord cut off, in another broken plastic combs B) . Those are two examples that all of us probably have seen.

 

I have read many posts urging people to do something about this. In our country it is the norm to "let the other guy do it". Thats how the situation will perpetuate itself. I decided to put some effort into changing it. More physical than monetary though. I have been working on a sig item to trade. There are few if any sigs in my area. Maybe I can help bring this trend to the Lancaster area.

 

One man usually cannot make a difference, but If I try, and somebody sees that i'm trying, maybe two will try, and then three... If i get to a cache and it is all trash, I will leave my sig and take the ketchup packet, or broken comb or whatever, and try to improve the cache.

 

Yes a small step, and maybe a pipe dream, but I'm willing to try to improve the game, rather than just bitch about it.

 

I'm not attacking anyone that has made the Mctrash complaint, I feel the same way. I just want to do something more than complain about it B)

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OK I'll bite on this one.

When I cache by myself, I TNLN except when I find something I can turn into a TB.

 

When I cache with the kids, it is a whole different story. I never know what they will find "cool".

For example, my son loves bungee cords. Every cache we open, he searchs for a bungee cord. If there is one (or, god forbid, two), he will fight tooth & nail for it. B) But he remembers every cache he got a bungee cord from. And the rest, well... (we are going to do a bungee cord cache in his honor soon B) ) My kids have taken broken godzilla toys, ugly necklaces, goofy trinkets, and other stuff I consider out right junk. They have also locked on to some pretty nice stuff too. And they have been caching long enough that they don't trade just to trade.

They trade because they want something. In many cases, we have no idea what an item might "cost", so we have a real discussion over what is a "fair" trade. My son is a card kid so, hey!, to him, baseball cards or Ugi'hoh (sp -1) cards are a good trade. With a couple of head-strong kids, those discussions can get pretty lively too. B) So much for being discrete. :D I must say we have left more than one cache with a disappointed kid because we didn't have a "fair" trade. We have also returned to a cache just to "trade fair".

 

We now try to stock our trade box (which we carry in the car) with items that are interesting, "cool", or different and try not to worry about applying a cost.

Speaking for myself, trading is the least fun aspect of the game. But in the end, we are all happy with the find even if it is a trash cache.

 

Geesh, I compose slow. Reminds me why I don't post. Back to lurking B)

Edited by nwscout1
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I didn't realize that caching COULD be so expensive. Not that it HAS to be, but I turned into what I thought was a "swagsnob" overnite. I went out shopping specifically for swag. Is that the line right there? I'm not putting in stuff that I got free or found in the gutter but actively looking for swag items? I suppose that you could find something cool that was free...

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I, as a kid, don't care about the trade. I'm not trying to be above anything or degrade other people who do enjoy the trade, I just don't. Most of the time. (the rubber chicken we found once was a definite treasure for me) Recently, we've been doing TNLN, in part because all the current stuff in our swag bag really just isn't good stuff.

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I didn't realize that caching COULD be so expensive. Not that it HAS to be, but I turned into what I thought was a "swagsnob" overnite. I went out shopping specifically for swag. Is that the line right there? I'm not putting in stuff that I got free or found in the gutter but actively looking for swag items? I suppose that you could find something cool that was free...

It doesn't have to be expensive. I recently went to WalMart and picked up a bunch of clearance hunting/fishing/camping items at $2 or less. Things like lures, fishing line, small caribiners, emergency solar blankets, tire gauges, compasses, etc. I've also bought mini screwdriver sets on eBay for 99 cents. I figure if it's a new item in a box it has to dress up a junky cache.

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