Extra Credit Cache

3.9k · March 17, 2004

I recently submitted a cache where if the finder filled up a garbage bag with trash from the trail I would allow them to log an extra find on the cache page. They would need to post a picture of themselves with the bag on the trail with their GPS in order to log the second find. The approver raised some possible issues with that and I was wondering if anyone else can see a potential problem. It has not been approved yet pending further discussion with some of he other admins. I was trying to give more incentive to trash out. Not that anyone should need it, but I know I don't CITO on every hunt even though I am practicing it much more than I used to.

The way I see, it's my cache, I'm not going against any guidelines that I can see and I should be able to allow players to log an extra find if I want to. The approver is NJ Admin and I have no complaints what-so-ever. NJ had always done a great job as far as I'm concerned so don't misconstrue this as any kind of attack and I ask that you don't turn this into a negative topic. This is not about him/her not approving my cache yet.

Just looking for some thoughts & opinions.

5k · March 17, 2004

Umm.. I suppose it's good incentive, even though CITO should be done anyway.

I don't think I'm keen on letting folks log an extra find on a cache, and if I did that cache (and the CITO), I'd only log one find. To me, CITO is not a find.

I don't think this is the worst thing I've seen though.. and don't see any problems by allowing this.

Could this practice escalate and get out of hand, though?

Jamie

March 17, 2004

Here's a thought, though you can't do it right now. If you could create locationless cache where you are required to post a picture of yourself in the midst of a CITO adventure. Wonder if TPTB would consider allowing that one to be created. It would be good for logging all over the place and not just that one cache location and maybe even get some good PR.

March 17, 2004

Could this practice escalate and get out of hand, though?

Wow that would be terrible the world getting cleaned one cache at a time!

3.9k · March 17, 2004

I guess every area is different. In my area I think the players would love it and more importantly the park would get cleaned up.

...I'd only log one find....

That would be fine. There are plenty of options this way. You can just find the cache and log 1 find, you can find the cache, CITO and still only log one find, you can do as suggested and grab 2 finds or you can opt not to do the cache at all. There are caches out there that require you to CITO to log 1 find. I'm not against that necessarily but my cache would give more incentive and more options.

Wow that would be terrible the world getting cleaned one cache at a time!

That's really the thing to focus on. The important thing is that an area can get cleaned up PLUS it is good PR for geocaching. I don't see the harm in it. What's wrong with getting a little reward for doing something good?

Could this practice escalate and get out of hand, though?

I assume you mean someone might be like "hey I took out 3 bags can i log 3 more finds?" Well no, you can't. Why? because it's my cache and I said so. I'm allowing only 1 extra find for CITO. You need to carry out at least one bag of trash for the extra find. it doesn't matter if you carry out 40 bags (please feel free) but you can only log 1 more find.

Someone else also said: what happens if there's no more trash to carry out? Well I can only hope I end up with that problem.

Edited March 17, 2004 by JMBella

5.9k · March 17, 2004

Hmmm...I would not do this, trash or not. But then, I don't log virts, locationless, or events as finds either.

EDIT: Typos

Edited March 17, 2004 by Criminal

3k · March 17, 2004

If it gets more people to trash out I say go for it. I myself would only claim one find, however, since I try to trash out as much as possible. Sometimes the piles of garbage are just too overwhelming to take home and convince the mann that it's our household gabage and that we should pay to get rid of it. Sometimes I find a dumpster I'm allowed to use. I personally do not need the incentive, but if people do need that little push and it works, go for it. But make it worth it. It has to be a full bag to count. One or two soda cans don't cut it. :lol:

Edit: after some more thought, it might not be good for caching to start adding incentives like this. We should be doing it anyway.

Edited March 17, 2004 by Planet

2.6k · March 17, 2004

I'd log only one find for such a cache too.

Following Butano's idea, how's this: Create a traditional cache where you may log your find (one only!) if you both found the cache & signed the log and filled a garbage bag? That way, the original CITO idea remains, and there wouldn't be the problem with the somewhat dubious 2-find logging. The prize for doing some CITO would be the right to log a find for that cache, which you couldn't do without filling a trash bag.

March 17, 2004

CITO should be something we all do without additional "find" incentive. I vote no to two finds. I might be in favor of a cache that required some CITO as part of the requirement, however.

Additional requirements could get out of hand. eg How about a "Sunset" or Sunrise" cache. Or maybe a favorite animal cache. Each requiring a picture in addition to the find.

Would someone "markwell" caching rules on additional requirements like this?

March 17, 2004

Following Butano's idea, how's this: Create a traditional cache where you may log your find (one only!) if you both found the cache & signed the log and filled a garbage bag?

The prize for doing some CITO would be the right to log a find for that cache, which you couldn't do without filling a trash bag.

That's the way this cache works

March 17, 2004

Wow, I'm really quite surprised by the issues brought up about this idea. When I first read about it in another thread I thought "What a great idea!" and have been trying to talk Phreak into helping me find just the right place for a cache like this.

There are plenty of areas around here that are in desperate need of some help but at the same time we wouldn't want to put it in the middle of a homeless camp (which seem to be the worst areas but scary to go to).

I still think it is a great idea but can understand some of the points that have been brought up.

Sure, as cachers we shouldn't need an 'extra' incentive to clean up the area but I know there have been plenty of times that we have come across an area that we weren't expecting to be bad only to see it strewn with trash. Unfortunately often times we are on a lunchtime cache trip or are just guilty of not having gloves and/or bags with us. If we were going to a cache that we were "prepared" to help CITO we'd allot extra time.

I'm not even saying that we would necessarily log the 'extra' smiley but I don't see anything wrong if that encourages others to do so. We have at least two caches around here that have a bonus cache at the end that allows an extra smiley, so that part of it shouldn't be an issue. And if it helps clean up the area, GREAT!!

I guess in the end those that want to hunt it will, those that don't like the idea won't. As long as it is clearly stated on the cache page and there are no 'surprises' it really shouldn't be an issue should it? I would think that there would be room in this game for a plethora of different types of caches to prevent it from getting stale.

Anyway, we'll be watching with interest if your cache gets approved.. Good Luck! and I hope you don't mind if we 'borrow' your idea if it does get approved. (whoops, I guess we would be contributing to it getting out of hand then... Ah well, we like to live dangerously! :lol: )

6.4k · March 17, 2004

CITO should be something we all do without additional "find" incentive. I vote no to two finds. I might be in favor of a cache that required some CITO as part of the requirement, however.

Additional requirements could get out of hand. eg How about a "Sunset" or Sunrise" cache. Or maybe a favorite animal cache. Each requiring a picture in addition to the find.

This would be my main worry. Not the CITO part specifically, but the whole "log a cache find for doing something OTHER then finding a cache."

If this type of cache is ok, then why not one where you log a find for each bag of trash, not just one?

If that one is ok, how about one where you log a find for each dirty golf ball or broken McToy you trade out of a cache?

If that one is ok, how about one where you log a smiley for each red light you got stuck at on the way to the cache?

Where does it end?

The little smiley when you log online say "Found it", not "I did such and such task in addition to finding the cache". Those things are what the note log is for.

Edited March 17, 2004 by Mopar

March 17, 2004

Following Butano's idea, how's this: Create a traditional cache where you may log your find (one only!) if you both found the cache & signed the log and filled a garbage bag?

The prize for doing some CITO would be the right to log a find for that cache, which you couldn't do without filling a trash bag.

That's the way this cache works

i agree with this method JM...

1.4k · March 17, 2004

If this type of cache is ok, then why not one where you log a find for each bag of trash, not just one?

If that one is ok, how about one where you log a find for each dirty golf ball or broken McToy you trade out of a cache?

If that one is ok, how about one where you log a smiley for each red light you got stuck at on the way to the cache?

Oooo! I agree with Mopar's idea! :lol:

Hehe

38.2k · March 17, 2004

There is one in Presque Island SP that is filled with bags and the only way you can log a find for the cache is to post a photo of yourself with a full bag of trash near the cache site. I think the bags were special ones so you just couldn't take a garbage bag from your kitchen and snap a photo in your backyard.

9.1k · March 17, 2004

You need to carry out at least one bag of trash for the extra find. it doesn't matter if you carry out 40 bags (please feel free) but you can only log 1 more find.

Someone else also said: what happens if there's no more trash to carry out? Well I can only hope I end up with that problem.

Note to Self: Add "fake bag of trash" to the gear carried in the back of the cachemobile. There's probably room next to the climbing rope, spotlight and hamster cages.

Second note to Self: Post this tip to one of the "What do you take with you when you go geocaching?" topics. I would hate to lose a bonus find because all the trash had been cleaned up.

March 17, 2004

I'm only a newbie but I would vote no to multiple finds for one cache. It skews the system. Pretty soon we'll be earning points. It will be a constant arguement over what is worth more, 2 bags of trash or a difficult to find multi-stage. For a 4 stage multi stage shouldn't you get 4 logged finds since you did as much work as finding one single stage?

I see no problem with requiring CITO to log it once but why is the extra incentive required to log it multiple times? Many caches make you jump through hoops to log them. Whats wrong with this being one of those requirements just to log it once? From the thread above it sounds like this has already been done so a precedent has been established for it. The only problem I see with a requirement like this is not everyone has a digital camera.

7.2k · March 17, 2004

I vote no to extra smilies for reasons already mentioned.

On this note, it's my feeling that the number of "Found It" logs shouldn't be what is counted, but the number of unique finds. While most of the time this is essentially the same thing, many times it is not. Moving caches can be flagged as one that allows multiple unique finds, while the rest, by their very nature, can't have multiple unique finds. If it hasn't moved, then you can't "find" it a second time because you already know where it is.

Extra incentive for extra finds is not a good idea.

2.1k · March 17, 2004

Following Butano's idea, how's this: Create a traditional cache where you may log your find (one only!) if you both found the cache & signed the log and filled a garbage bag?

I like this idea. Nothing wrong with adding a task to the find and it is usually easy to find a bag of trash.

There is a cache in Ukiah, CA that requires 30 minutes of clearing an unmaintianed trail leading to another cache. Proof needed is a photo of your pruning equipment at the site and a description of what you did. I liked that one.

7.2k · March 17, 2004

Oh! Oh! I know...

"Coords to the final stage in written on a piece of trash in the area. Since you're picking up pieces of trash anyway, might as well put it in a bag and carry it out. Leave the trash that has the coords and enjoy the rest of the hunt..."

Of course, after a while there is only one piece of trash and it has to stay...

Leave me alone! I didn't say it a flawless idea! :lol:

March 17, 2004

There is a similar cache set up for CITO anywhere in Minnesota, you can see it at this link - it might give you the flexibility to set it up for your state or area.

For those who don't like to log a 'find' for their CITO activities, you can still participate and write a 'note' without adding to your find count. For those who like numbers, you can post a find. Either way, I can't see how anyone loses in this deal whatsoever - check it out, what do you think, is this what you had in mind? Regards,

-Ken

March 17, 2004

Hey FSU Noles, thanks for the link!

We haven't had a chance to get to any Event Caches yet, but maybe we can 'attend' this one and feel like part of a much bigger group.

As far as the "Extra credit" smiley for CITO... I see the points being raised here (although I feel some are a little exagerated, probably intentionally ) and quite a few I can actually agree on. Believe it or not we are not the type that are 'smiley freaks'. We believe one smiley per cache (unique location), that includes multis that seem to have no end, but we know that there are plenty of people out there that would do anything for that extra smile so since it really isn't about the numbers :lol: it shouldn't matter if someone once to log ONE extra smiley for CITO on that cache. And that's ONE extra, not one per bag, etc.

As for not being right to log a 'smile' on something you didn't actually find... well if you are required to show a picture with the trash, how is that so different from an LC? So this is sorta like a Regular Cache with an LC thrown in.

Anyway, I'm glad to see all the differnet opinions it seems like whether or not JMBella's cache gets approved there are a lot of other options out there to encourage people to CITO.

3.9k · March 17, 2004

OK. I'm man enough to admit that this may not be the best idea.

Note to Self: Add "fake bag of trash" to the gear carried in the back of the cachemobile. There's probably room next to the climbing rope, spotlight and hamster cages.

Yea, yea, yea. Whatever. I will change the cache to a simple "you need to CITO to claim THE find" cache. Then what stops players from doing what Lep said? I don't think I'll have that problem but if Lep is thinking it why wouldn't anyone else? Maybe Lep is just EVIL

38.2k · March 17, 2004

Yea, yea, yea. Whatever. I will change the cache to a simple "you need to CITO to claim THE find" cache. Then what stops players from doing what Lep said? I don't think I'll have that problem but if Lep is thinking it why wouldn't anyone else?

Try the idea that the Presque Isle cache used, where the owner placed bags in the cache that were pretty unique, so its unlikely that someone could fake a photo. Of course someone determined to fake it, can get away with it But heck, if cheating is that important to them, then what can you do?

If I recall correctly, some of the later finders of that cache were complaining that there was no garbage left in the area to CITO, so the idea is a great one. Maybe you can choose a scenic spot with LOTS of rubbish.

Come to think of it, its a such a great idea, I may do it too.

Edited March 17, 2004 by briansnat

4.1k · March 17, 2004

On the subject of an added "pat on the back" for CITO-ing, there is the coolness of having a CITO Logo appear in your User Stats, under "List of items found". So, as an option, you can make sure to create a cache that fits that category.

It's small, I know, but those who cache in and trash out are often doing it for reasons other than web graphics. :lol:

Good luck, JMBella and please let us know what eventually pans out.

Edited March 17, 2004 by MissJenn

3.9k · March 17, 2004

On the subject of an added "pat on the back" for CITO-ing, there is the coolness of having a CITO Logo appear in your User Stats, under "List of items found". So, as an option, you can make sure to create a cache that fits that category.

It's small, I know, but those who cache in and trash out are often doing it for reasons other than web graphics.

Good luck, JMBella and please let us know what eventually pans out.

I'll can let you know right now. :lol: I've decided to take the suggestions here and change the cache requirements. Now you have to CITO to log the one and only find. As far as people taking a trash bag with them to claim the find well, those people suck. The caches are already placed and with the bags in them so I'm not going to change them now. I don't think I'll have a problem with the players around here I give them more credit than that. Besides it will take 5 minutes to fill up a trash bag, it's almost more trouble to take one with you in your cachemobile.

March 17, 2004

Yea, yea, yea. Whatever. I will change the cache to a simple "you need to CITO to claim THE find" cache. Then what stops players from doing what Lep said? I don't think I'll have that problem but if Lep is thinking it why wouldn't anyone else? Maybe Lep is just EVIL

Well its no different then them bringing a bag of trash with them to get the second smiley. This way your requireing people to trash out for your cache to get any smileys. Besides theres plenty of other caches that the owners don't watch their logs if all you want to do is pad your numbers.

24.7k · March 17, 2004

Don't get me wrong (notice how that always is follows by a complete dissagreement?) but I don't like the idea of multiple finds on one cache unless it's one of the generally accepted reasons that allready exist.

JamieZ's idea of a Cito checkbox so you get Cito Kudos in your stats is one I like better.

38.2k · March 17, 2004

Well its no different then them bringing a bag of trash with them to get the second smiley. This way your requireing people to trash out for your cache to get any smileys.

Sure its different. You're only getting 1 find for the cache. It's just a an additional requirement so you can log that find. Many cache owners have special requirements to log a find. Codewords and photos are two examples. Requiring that the finder CITO is just another one.

March 17, 2004

As I understand it, the CITO logo on the user stats page is reserved for CITO events. What if a new category for type of cache was created, specific to CITO? Yeah I know, the abuse potential is enormous, but I for one would find it kind of neat to look back years from now and see how many bags of garbage I carted out of the woods thanks to geocaching.

edit: spelling

Edited March 17, 2004 by CacheCreatures

March 17, 2004

Here's a thought, though you can't do it right now. If you could create locationless cache where you are required to post a picture of yourself in the midst of a CITO adventure. Wonder if TPTB would consider allowing that one to be created. It would be good for logging all over the place and not just that one cache location and maybe even get some good PR.

thats what i was thinking, have it be a separate section, maybe in the locationless section whenever that gets made up

3.9k · March 17, 2004

As I understand it, the CITO logo on the user stats page is reserved for CITO events. What if a new category for type of cache was created, specific to CITO? Yeah I know, the abuse potential is enormous, but I for one would find it kind of neat to look back years from now and see how many bags of garbage I carted out of the woods thanks to geocaching.

edit: spelling

I like it!

6.5k · March 17, 2004

Here's a thought, though you can't do it right now. If you could create locationless cache where you are required to post a picture of yourself in the midst of a CITO adventure. Wonder if TPTB would consider allowing that one to be created. It would be good for logging all over the place and not just that one cache location and maybe even get some good PR.

Don't do this, if it even looks like a locationless its going to be tagged as such and denied (at least till whenever they're allowed again). Do what Divine suggests, and attach an actual location and logbook onto the idea. But make sure you define what/where the trash is collected. Otherwise you might get some smuck logging a fine for taking their own trash to the curb or someone trying to double up after visiting an actual CITO event. Nice example windchill :lol:

I agree cachers should be doing CITO anyways, but the fact is not all do. Some just don't, and some the idea hadn't occured to them, this may help nudge them in the right direction. If passing out a few 'easy smilies' means the parks and trails are cleaner I say go for it.

As for adding on extra requirements, I think the cache owner is still given the power to determine what a 'find' actually is. Even if those requirements are strange or plain stupid. (if this has been changed, someone please direct me to where/when this was announced)

7.2k · March 17, 2004

Here's a thought, though you can't do it right now. If you could create locationless cache where you are required to post a picture of yourself in the midst of a CITO adventure. Wonder if TPTB would consider allowing that one to be created.

I'm only a lackey and not one of TPTB, but I would say no to this locationless idea. As expressed in this topic, CITO is something you should be doing as an unconscious effort anyway. The incentive should be to keep our earth clean and not just to get a smiley.

To that end, I would also say no to a double smiley for picking up trash while you find a cache. I got this trash while checking a cache for someone and then doing another new cache in the same area. I got one smiley and was happy to trash out all this mess...

March 18, 2004

I'd create a puzzle cache as the Bonus cache. The reason I'd choose a puzzle cache is because the coordinates don't have to be correct - the only way you get the corrected coordinates is to take a pic doing CITO at your other cache. Then, post the pic. You send the offset to the coordinates which takes 'em to a bonus cache that they can claim. So, no double-claimed cache, no feathers ruffled.

That's just my opinion - and we all know about opinions... <_<

Extra Credit Cache

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Join the conversation