K9 Crew Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Being somewhat of a rookie to BM hunting, I have been looking for a bench mark that is said to be a "keel cross". Could somebody tell me just what that is. Seem to enjoy the BMs more than the caches, no stats to get hung up on. thanks, willy magoo Quote Link to comment
+happycycler Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Does this benchmark have a PID, so that wiser heads could look up the datasheet in GeoCaching and/or NGS? They might be able to discern something from context in the datasheet. (Google only gives me info. about boats and a megalith in the British Isles, and this was all new to me.) Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 No. But what data sheet is it on maybe we can do a further study. Quote Link to comment
K9 Crew Posted March 15, 2004 Author Share Posted March 15, 2004 Here is the info: OK0120'DESCRIBED BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1934 OK0120'0.6 MI W FROM OVID. OK0120'0.6 MILE WEST ALONG THE GRAND TRUNK WESTERN RAILWAY, FROM THE OK0120'STATION AT OVID, CLINTON COUNTY, 13.7 FEET WEST OF MILEAGE SIGN OK0120'89.38, AT A BRIDGE OVER A SMALL STREAM, ON THE TOP OF THE OK0120'NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE CONCRETE ABUTMENT, 2.3 FEET EAST OF THE OK0120'WEST EDGE, 1.3 FEET NORTH OF THE SOUTH EDGE, AND LEVEL WITH THE OK0120'TOP OF THE RAIL. A KEEL CROSS. Quote Link to comment
+happycycler Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I would start looking for some sort of chisled cross on the top of the concrete abutment. When you find it (whatever it turns out to be), then you might consider sending a photo of it to dustyjacket for his super website: benchmarks & witness posts His site is a great resourse for questions of this sort but I don't think he has one of those yet.... Quote Link to comment
K9 Crew Posted March 15, 2004 Author Share Posted March 15, 2004 I will go back and look, this may be a no find mission as some of the abutment is crumbling from age. If its there, I will get a pic. thanks Quote Link to comment
K9 Crew Posted March 15, 2004 Author Share Posted March 15, 2004 I did find the site you refer to, and found nothing. Found some crosses but nothing listed as a keel cross. Quote Link to comment
CallawayMT Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Keel is a very temporary crayon used for marking on timber, concrete, and various assorted things. If it is truly keel, it would not have lasted long unless they scribed an X in the concrete in addition to the keel. Regards, CallawayMT Quote Link to comment
K9 Crew Posted March 15, 2004 Author Share Posted March 15, 2004 OK0120_U.S. NATIONAL GRTGN131647(NAD 83) OK0120_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 16TGN131647(NAD 83) Does the line with Stabiltiy have anything to do with this? Says it will hold position /elevation well. OK0120_MARKER: Z = SEE DESCRIPTION OK0120_SETTING: 36 = ABUTMENT OK0120_STABILITY: B = PROBABLY HOLD POSITION/ELEVATION WELL OK0120 OK0120 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By OK0120 HISTORY - UNK MONUMENTED GTWRR OK0120 HISTORY - 1934 GOOD NGS OK0120 OK0120 STATION DESCRIPTION OK0120 OK0120'DESCRIBED BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1934 OK0120'0.6 MI W FROM OVID. OK0120'0.6 MILE WEST ALONG THE GRAND TRUNK WESTERN RAILWAY, FROM THE OK0120'STATION AT OVID, CLINTON COUNTY, 13.7 FEET WEST OF MILEAGE SIGN OK0120'89.38, AT A BRIDGE OVER A SMALL STREAM, ON THE TOP OF THE OK0120'NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE CONCRETE ABUTMENT, 2.3 FEET EAST OF THE OK0120'WEST EDGE, 1.3 FEET NORTH OF THE SOUTH EDGE, AND LEVEL WITH THE OK0120'TOP OF THE RAIL. A KEEL CROSS. Quote Link to comment
+Kewaneh & Shark Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Like CallawayMT stated, 'keel' is a temporary marker. The term is used generically to describe a lumber crayon, which are most commonly red or yellow.. It can be easily carried by any member of the field crew, marks on many surfaces, and vanishes within a few days to weeks. It is also more subtle (nearly invisible) when compared to paint, which can remain for years. Usually, keel is used to mark or identify a point temporarily until a more permanent method is used, like a chiseled cross. Often keel is used during a survey and then the crosses are chiseled at the end of the day. This is the type that my office uses... - Kewaneh Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 (edited) I do not think that would fit the criteria for entry as a NGS Benchmark. I have done a little study on both aspects. It could be a keel(ed) (curved) carved,or chisled cross,on or and the underside. I am probably wrong but the marks had to be of a quality that would withstand. What is a Z = mark(see discription) Edited March 16, 2004 by GEO*Trailblazer 1 Quote Link to comment
Z15 Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 (edited) Z - means see description for the mark description. This is in the NGS Blue Book Edited March 16, 2004 by elcamino Quote Link to comment
K9 Crew Posted March 16, 2004 Author Share Posted March 16, 2004 This has been very informative for me. I can understand using the crayon and it being a temp mark, but in the description it states that it should holdup. Have to assume then that someone later chiseled a mark in the abutment. Hopefully this week, I should be able to get back out and see if I can locate it. thanks Quote Link to comment
Z15 Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 (edited) That was a mark of the GTWRR GRAND TRUNK WESTERN RAILROAD C&GS did not set it, they hit it went they went by. I have seen similar marks here in Michigan that were copper nail in a tree root that was used by the construction staking crew for the highway dept. I searched around this MARK and found more like this. They were obviously RR survey marks that were leveled across and recorded. Its not uncommon to find marks listed that are impossible to find today. Back in those days they never envisioned what it would be like today, it was a survey mark and it got recorded. The fact that we can't find it today, is our problem, not the survey crew from 1934 whom lived for the moment. Also keep in mind that many marks in the DB were used for an intended purpose at the time. USGS marks come to mind, as they were used to control the maps they were located in with very little concern over other things that today would seem applicable. Some agencies never looked to the future and only cared if the survey mark lasted long enough for them to build the road, RR, dam or whatever. Edited March 16, 2004 by elcamino Quote Link to comment
K9 Crew Posted March 19, 2004 Author Share Posted March 19, 2004 I have a pic of what I think is the remaining portion of the cross. Have to figure out how to get the pic on here. Quote Link to comment
+Team Philsey Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I have scouted out quite a number of RR benchmarks in my area (Lehigh Valley, PA) and found almost none of them. Most are described as monelmetal rivets, and most of the concrete footers that they were hammered into are now gone. I can feel your pain! The only ones that I did find were actual marker disks in an old railroad station that is now a restaurant. Quote Link to comment
+happycycler Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 (edited) Great! Willy Magoo & Linda Too! Could you include your photo on your GeoCaching log for the mark and then give us the PID? (Opps I guess that we already have the PID -- OK0120. ) Edited March 19, 2004 by happycycler Quote Link to comment
TerraVador Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 (edited) I have a pic of what I think is the remaining portion of the cross. Have to figure out how to get the pic on here. When you log the benchmark on GC.com, just upload the image there. Then we can help you to link to the image here. (In Edit) OOPS. Happy beat me to it. Edited March 20, 2004 by TerraVador Quote Link to comment
K9 Crew Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 Have the pics upload. OKO120 I am hoping this is it as the other two adjacent to it have had the crossing lights removed. This may be the only one left in this area. Willy Quote Link to comment
TerraVador Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 I am taking the liberty of reposting Willy Magoo's photos from his log of OK0120 here : Willy, it looks like sky at the top of your second picture. Is this picture taken horizontally or vertically? From my reading of the description, the cross is on the top (horizontal) surface, and not the side (vertical) surface. DESCRIBED BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1934 0.6 MI W FROM OVID. 0.6 MILE WEST ALONG THE GRAND TRUNK WESTERN RAILWAY, FROM THE STATION AT OVID, CLINTON COUNTY, 13.7 FEET WEST OF MILEAGE SIGN 89.38, AT A BRIDGE OVER A SMALL STREAM, ON THE TOP OF THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE CONCRETE ABUTMENT, 2.3 FEET EAST OF THE WEST EDGE, 1.3 FEET NORTH OF THE SOUTH EDGE, AND LEVEL WITH THE TOP OF THE RAIL. A KEEL CROSS. Quote Link to comment
K9 Crew Posted March 21, 2004 Author Share Posted March 21, 2004 The pictures are taken looking down. What appears to be sky is light reflecting from the stream below. Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.