Can I Still Credit The Find?

March 13, 2004

I drove about 120km from home today to find a cache. I was 5m away on foot when my SAR team sent out a call for a rescue so I had to turn and run.

I did enjoy the drive down and saw a nice area I might visit again, but I'm not going to go back anytime soon just to sign my name in the logbook.

Is anyone going to take particular offense if I log it as found?

March 13, 2004

Is anyone going to take particular offense if I log it as found?

Perhaps, but you can play your game however you please. If you saw the cache container and you're positive that it was the cache container, go ahead and log it if you want.

2.4k · March 13, 2004

Well, you didn't FIND the cache, so you shouldn't log a FIND. You could post a note to the cache page detailing your trip, but a FIND log isn't appropriate.

1.6k · March 13, 2004

I say email the cache owner and talk to him about it, and see if he'd allow you to log a find or not...

9.4k · March 13, 2004

Signing the logbook is your proof that you found it. It's one of the reasons that logbooks are required. Just because you were 5 meters from the cache doesn't mean that you actually found it. It could take 5 minutes or 5 hours once you're at the cache location before you actually find the container. Getting close doesn't count in my book

March 13, 2004

Close is good for horseshoes but not caching. Not a find.

9.2k · March 13, 2004

Log it as a find? Of course not. You didn't find it. Let me repeat that last part. You didn't find it. I'm amazed that anyone would even ask.

March 13, 2004

If you can do it with a clear conscience then go ahead. If the cache owner doesn't like it then they can delete your log.

I know I've been within feet of caches that I haven't found but I don't log them until I find them.

2.4k · March 13, 2004

If you do log a it as a find, keep an eye on this thread.

22k · March 13, 2004

The thrill of the hunt includes unforeseen circumstances that prevent us from completing our search. I have one DNF in southern Illinois (4 hours away) that is not especially difficult, but I haven’t forgotten it. It bugs me that a basic cache got the best of me. That is part of what keeps my interest in the game even though distance is my only hurdle. If it was easy enough that all I had to do was get in the general area to claim a find, no matter how close, I don’t think Geocaching would be worth doing. Have patience and keep trying, no matter what!

1.6k · March 13, 2004

They say that almost only counts in horseshoes, lawn darts, and hand grenades. I say almost counts when you were close.

I seem to be the only person who thinks this way, but I still say email the cache owner and ask him wether he'll allow you to log a find or not.

I'd say if it were my cache, and a guy just posted a log telling your story, and saying he found it, I'd delete it, but if the person had emailed me and explained the story, knowing what you were doing, I would have allowed you to log a find, but not necessairily to say in your log that you didn't actually find it.

So I still say see what the specific cache owner's thoughts and views are on it...

1.3k · March 13, 2004

My personal opinion is that you can log a "visited the area" since you did that. I usually use the "note" feature for that.

March 14, 2004

by 5m do you mean 5miles or 5meters??

I do think you should log it, post a note yes, find no.

85 to go to 1000

Edited March 14, 2004 by wildearth2001

3.1k · March 14, 2004

Well lots of cache nazis will say you can't log it. Personally I wouldn't log it as a find but, if you did I could care less. It's your game

March 14, 2004

If you were 15' from the cache, and saw it/could identify it, go ahead and log it.

I have had several instances where I logged a find even though I didnt sign it. 1 was a micro and I couldnt get the danged thing open. I did note in the log that if the cache owner needed a precise description of the cache location I would fill him/her in.

March 14, 2004

Tally up one more vote for not logging the cache as found........!!!!!!!!!!!!

I once droped over an 80 foot cliff on rope looking for a cache. I touched the cache container while hanging 60 feet in thr air, but could not come to a stop and sign the log book.

I COULD NOT SIGN THE LOG BOOK SO I DIDN'T LOG IT AS A FIND !!!!!!!!

Fair is fair

We all need to have priorities, and when they conflict we should be willing to make choices.

Edited March 14, 2004 by Vader

2.2k · March 14, 2004

Whether or not you log a find on a cache that you didnt physically log into should be at the discretion of the cache owner. If the owner is satisfied that you met the requirements, go ahead and log the find.

March 14, 2004

I wouldn't log this as a find.

A personal example: I went to find a cache in the mountains a few weeks ago. I was about 350 feet from the cache when I encountered a HUGE wall of ice and snow! There was no safe way around this 'wall'! I don't plan on finding this cache again any time soon since it was soooo far of a drive. And I didn't log it as a find...because I didn't find the cache!

March 14, 2004

If you log it as a find and it hasn't been found in a while your telling the owner of the cache that its still there and it might not be. Its not fair to the owner or to people looking for it after you.

Whats the point of logging a cache as found that you didn't find? Theres no prize, theres no award. Your stats only mean something to you. What are you going to put in the log?

"Took nothing/left nothing since I didn't find it because I got called for a SAR

March 14, 2004

Today, someone logged a find on one of my caches, saying that she stayed in the car because it was too cold out (high today was near 50*, but I don't know what time they got there. Doesn't matter anyway...) The guy she was caching with found the cache, and logged his own find under his own name. But she logged it as found under her own name!

I deleted the find, and emailed her suggesting she can log it as a note if she likes, but this is not a drive thru cache, and cannot be logged as a find from inside a car. Since she is a newbie, I was nice, but jeesh.

Just playing her own game? Perhaps. I just have to wonder if she cheats at cards too...

4k · March 14, 2004

I drove down to OKC the other day, and by my estimate, I came within 10 miles or so of around 500 caches....can I log them all as finds, since I was close?

2.3k · March 14, 2004

I saw a cache on a map? Does that count?

Don't take the game too seriously.... If you found it, Great!!

If you didn't then go back and try again, or if its too far don't

sweat it there are literaly thousands more to go find.

March 14, 2004

Is anyone going to take particular offense if I log it as found?

Looks like the short answer is YES

March 14, 2004

sbirn I would never count that as a find... If I had a nickle for every time my GPSr zeroed in and I didn't find it right away I'd be rich...

I checked your stats, You should actually find your first cache the feeling is great. find some close to where you live

March 14, 2004

I drove right by a cache at a rest stop today while heading to another that I did get. I know where it is within 15 feet without a GPSr. One of these days I should stop at log it ... then again I am within 15 feet of it driving by.

March 14, 2004

OK...I think I have the analogy that will make sense to the cacher in question.

You got called away on a SAR mission in the midst of cache hunting. Your job requires skill and courage and I thank you for doing this job where ever you do it, as I'm sure the families of your saves do too.

Here's the million dollar question: You get called on a SAR mission. Dude is hanging precariously on a limb ready to drop 100ft to his death at X coordinates. Your GPS zeroes out, but you find no dude. Did you find him?

I realize equating caching to a life or death situation is a bit overkill, but when you get down to it, whether SAR or caching...being there isn't what the game is about, it's about physically finding what you are looking for.

March 14, 2004

OK...I think I have the analogy that will make sense to the cacher in question.

You got called away on a SAR mission in the midst of cache hunting. Your job requires skill and courage and I thank you for doing this job where ever you do it, as I'm sure the families of your saves do too.

Here's the million dollar question: You get called on a SAR mission. Dude is hanging precariously on a limb ready to drop 100ft to his death at X coordinates. Your GPS zeroes out, but you find no dude. Did you find him?

I realize equating caching to a life or death situation is a bit overkill, but when you get down to it, whether SAR or caching...being there isn't what the game is about, it's about physically finding what you are looking for.

That is a really good analagy.

March 14, 2004

Throwing my $0.02 in here. If you actually saw the container then I say contact the owner describing the container and placement and see if he will allow it as a find. You have then "found" something, it is up to the owner to decide if he believes it was his container you found and whether to allow a find with no log. However, if you were merely close then you should only log a note. The cache I hunted this afternoon I was within inches of several times over a 40 minute search, but it was a DNF all the way until I actually spotted it. Little Nasty I have probably been with mm of if not actually in contact with, but have not yet recognized as the cache and found, so DNF for that one (I'll be back).

March 14, 2004

Anouther could be:

You get called to help a small boy off of a cliff. Somehow he climbed 100 feet up on really cruddy rock and it now stuck. The rock is so rotton it is not safe for someone of adult weight (or anyone for that matter) to climb, especially on lead. You decide to rappel from the top of the cliff but you find that your 200meter rope is about 20 feet to short and you don't have any other rope. Did you really save the boy or just get close?

Explanation:

You got close to the boy but had to go back, which means you didn't rescue him.

March 14, 2004

You said that you were 5m away. How did you know? Did you see the cache or was it just what your GPSr was telling you?

If you were just going by your GPSr then you don't know if the cache was even there. It may have been stolen, your GPSr may have been off, or the hider's GPSr may have been off when they hid it.

(Note: For this next part, I am not as heartless as I might sound, it's just a question.)

If you saw the container, why couldn't you have taken a minute to sign the log? You said that you drove 120km to get to the site, and I'm assuming that you had to drive 120km to get back (this may be a bad assumption, if it is forget I asked). It would take you a couple hours to drive that far so a minute isn't going to make that much difference.

Either way, I would not log it as a find.

That being said, and as someone else mentioned, it's between you and the cache owner. Nobody else's opinion matter's as much as the two of your's.

1.3k · March 14, 2004

Log it as a find? Of course not. You didn't find it. Let me repeat that last part. You didn't find it. I'm amazed that anyone would even ask.

Haha... at least he asked! That's more than I can say for other people!

Oh yeah, and by NO means should you log it as a find. As everyone else said, you didn't actually find it.

2.2k · March 14, 2004

nope, not a find.

9.5k · March 14, 2004

DNF or Note but not Found.

38.2k · March 14, 2004

Well lots of cache nazis will say you can't log it. Personally I wouldn't log it as a find but, if you did I could care less. It's your game

And if the cache is actually missing, but his fake find encourages me to go out there and look for it because it was there yesterday, I'd be pretty ticked. If that makes me a Nazi then, Ich bin weider aufgestanden Aber das Bein hat zu sehr weh getan.

I don't understand for the life of me why anybody would want to log a find on a cache they didn't find. When you head out for a cache, there are two possibilities - you found it, or you didn't. When you log your hunt, there are buttons for both. If you found it you use one. If you didn't you use the other. Pretty simple...or at least it should be.

Edited March 14, 2004 by briansnat

1.3k · March 14, 2004

For me there's three buttons:

Found = Found

DNF = DNF

Note = This isn't over yet.

Just as a found note indicates the cache is there, to me a DNF indicates there might be a problem. Until I feel I'm in a position to say "I was there and I couldn't find it and dang it I tried", I don't log that DNF either. I'd rather post a note that tells the story without jumping to any misleading conclusions.

March 14, 2004

It's not a find in my book!!!

3.8k · March 14, 2004

If a "find" consisted of just being in the general area, then how could you ever log a DNF?

If that was the case, the Little Nasty series would have a lot less purple faces on them.

Don't log the cache as a find, but a note.

March 14, 2004

There's not much to add that hasn't been said, but a really simple observation.

The guy is using metric, so I assume getting to 5m means his GPS said he was 5 METERS from the target, which is roughly 15 feet.

Most GPSr have an accuracy of about 20 feet, meaning once you get down to that distance, its time to start searching in a 40 foot radius.

At TC2004, my wife and I spent 40 minutes looking for SE200D, and we finally had help from 5 other people. Our GPS triangulation had actually pointed at the tree the cache token was found, but it took that long to find it.

Therefore, it should be obvious that there are 2 parts to hunting a cache:

A. the journey to the target zone

B. searching for the cache at the target zone.

Finding a cache is effectively achieving both parts. Fail any one, and you don't get a find.

Now one could argue about calling it a find if you actually spotted the box. By virtue of the fact that you had to ask, and had you KNOWN where the cache was, you would have spent 5 minutes signing the log, making it a proven point, you effectively did not accomplish part B.

Does score matter? Kinda. People with higher scores tend to be recognized as veterans. People with really high scores or scrutinized for cheating (there have been a few). Most cachers don't obsess about cache counts, but they do look and they do respect honesty (which you are being honest in asking). Keeping score is fun, as long as it isn't overdone.

Janx

6.5k · March 14, 2004

Nope not a find. There is no option for 'close to finding' in the drop down window. Yesterday at the 2004 Burlington Event there were 30+ cachers in a 30x30 patch of woods looking for a bonus micro and it still took over 10 minutes.

The Devil Dogs found it in a tree hole that had been inspected several times already. Nobody bothered to really dig around with a stick until them.

2.1k · March 14, 2004

Not a find.

1.1k · March 14, 2004

For me there's three buttons:
Found = Found

DNF = DNF

Note = This isn't over yet.

Just as a found note indicates the cache is there, to me a DNF indicates there might be a problem. Until I feel I'm in a position to say "I was there and I couldn't find it and dang it I tried", I don't log that DNF either. I'd rather post a note that tells the story without jumping to any misleading conclusions.

Now I usually agree with Bons and was surprised to see a glimer of a gray area. If you hunted the cache you either found it, or you didn't. Let's not forget that DNF stands for "Did Not Find".

It's up to the cache owner to detirmine if a DNF means there is a problem. If I see one from a cacher with 20 finds I'll either ignore it or offer up additional hints. If I see multiple DNFs or ones from experienced cachers I will go and check on the cache.

I think notes are for the times you don't actually hunt the cache. For example "Nice area, I was on my way to hunt your cache but got called away for an emergency" or "Stopped by to drop xxxx Travel bug in the cache." or "Aborted cache attempt due to closed gate."

March 14, 2004

Not a find in my book. Even if I can see a cache, what if it's too high for me to reach? Would I log it as a find? Nope.

What if I just KNOW it's under that bench where that muggle is sitting and I don't want to compromise the cache, but gosh darn I'm in a rush and I can't really wait around for Mr. Muggle to leave? Would I log it as a find? Nope.

Part of the difficulty is in retrieving it from it's resting place. If it's not in your hands, I don't consider it a find.

My newbie 2 cents.

GPSKitty

edit: I can spell, really I can.

Edited March 14, 2004 by GPSKitty

1.6k · March 14, 2004

Agree with the Not a Find crowd. If you found it, obviously a find. If you couldn't log it, but you did find the cache, grey zone, but the judges will probably allow it.

You were 5 meters away. Sorry. Too far to be a find.

March 14, 2004

I'm not sure what kind of pretzel logic you could use, to call not finding something, a find.

Not trying to be a smart@ss, but why would you even have to ask?

That's not rhetorical, I really want to know what the logic sequence was in the thought process, that would log a find for that. I'm not saying you're trying to cheat, or up your find count, heck for all I know, you don't give a crap about numbers.

I think where it would break down for me, is when you come to the word "find" and try to rationalize changing the definition for it. Trips me up every time.

Try telling the IRS you paid your taxes, when you wrote the check, got in your car, drove to the post office, but didn't put the check in the mail box. :rolleyes:

3.1k · March 14, 2004

Cache Nazis 1

newbie 0

:rolleyes:

March 14, 2004

The only thing I can think to say in his defense, is that he is apparently very inexperienced. I'm no veteran myself, but I took a lot of time to read the boards and the logs of caches in my area. It gives you a good feel for how the game/sport is played. What's expected, and what isn't. What's acceptable, and what isn't.

But that's just MY style.

Some folks like to jump into the deep end and then learn to swim the hard way. He only has two virtuals and those were back in June. He's still learning what constitutes a traditional find. And sorry, I don't think close is good enough.

GPSKitty

22k · March 14, 2004

Cache Nazis 1
newbie 0

Funny, but you're right. He wasn't asking if he could loot the local stuffmart.

2k · March 15, 2004

After reading this and another similar thread, I went back through my own finds and found two caches I logged as a find twice each. The only reason being that I went back a second time to take another group. I didn't mark the finds twice to boost my numbers though. Most of us aren't in it for the numbers. By the way, I did go back and change my 2nd finds to notes.

1.3k · March 15, 2004

That's cool that you changed them to notes. They should never be logged twice. You didn't really find it if you knew where it was!

3.8k · March 15, 2004

That's cool that you changed them to notes. They should never be logged twice. You didn't really find it if you knew where it was!

Burn 'im! Burn 'im! :rolleyes:

Can I Still Credit The Find?

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