How many DNF's do you have?

4.8k · October 23, 2003

I'm still relatively new to geocaching, but I've been keeping a tally of my DNF's and noticed that I'm running about 14.5% on my DNF/F ratio. Is this typical? I'd like to know how other people think I'm doing compared to their experiences when they first started. Do you think I should:

Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them. The rest go geocaching.

[This message was edited by Touchstone on October 23, 2003 at 07:36 AM.]

[This message was edited by Touchstone on October 23, 2003 at 08:05 AM.]

October 23, 2003

do you log a no find? most guys I know don't... I do, but I am not a guy..

Not all who wander are lost

October 23, 2003

I'm new here, with 2 dnf's and two finds.

That gives me a batting average of 500!!!

Thomas

Team Canope / A Handicacher!

"The bubbling brook would lose its song if you removed the rocks"

4.8k · October 23, 2003

Yes, I always try to log a DNF. I think it's important information for the cache owner and for future cachers as well. That said, I think I've forgotten on one or two occassions to log the DNF because things got busy at home etc.

Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them. The rest go geocaching.

October 23, 2003

If we get out of the car with a 'goto' in the GPS, we log a DNF whatever the reason if we don't find the box. Sometime we'll log a DNF if something local (an event, bad neighbourhood, no parking suggestion) stops us even getting out of the car.

We will usually go back for a DNF within a month, so we currently only have 1 outstanding, which is a little too far away to visit easily.

Normally, though, we will search for a LONG time, using the hints and spoilers if necessary. I think our longest search is about an hour - and that's the one we still haven't found.

Unfortunately, others have found it since, so we can't claim it was missing!

Your rate seems a little high, but certainly not awful.

October 23, 2003

I've posted 36 DNF's out of 531 Finds.

Out of the 36;

23 were found on re-visits.

9 were found to be missing by the cache owner.

4 are still not found and will be attempted again one of these days.

This comes out to a <.01% DNF/F ratio. I don't usually give up a hunt easily. Mosquitoes chewing on me may make me give up the hunt sooner than I'd like though.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

October 23, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by GeoFool:
I've posted 36 DNF's out of 531 Finds.

4 are still not found and will be attempted again one of these days.

This comes out to a <.01% DNF/F ratio.

Technically 4 out of 531 is either 0.007(whole number) or 0.75% (percent)DNF/F ratio .01% would be 0.0001 or 1 in 10,000.

October 23, 2003

I'm still pretty new at this too, but right now I've found 20, and failed to find about 5 or 6. Most of them I posted a DNF. One site I got there too late & was a bit too dark to search very easily so I didn't count that one. Another site had a bunch of people (muggles you call them? lol) having a sorta picnic around the site, so discouraged me from rooting for my prize.

I do intend to re-visit some of my DNF's at a later date especially ones that other people have found after I couldn't.

October 23, 2003

How many DNFs do I have? Too many!

14.5% seems high, but as you find more that will drop off. How quickly do you give up the chase? I've spent over an hour on some searches when there were lots of possible hiding spots. And I've gone back and located every DNF except the few I've missed on trips/vacations. A few required multiple trips. The funny thing is, it seems that I get tripped up most often on low-rated caches - I had to make 2 trips to find a simple 1/1, and a friend of mine needed three visits to locate it. Go figure!

October 23, 2003

My ratio is 45 finds and 6 DNFs--2 I went back and found, 1 was no longer there, and 2 were in busy places where I just couldn't start crawling around and picking things up! There's just one right now that really has me vexed but I will find it!

October 23, 2003

While compiling your statistics and comparing yourself to and competing with others, please do not forget:

"We tend to be betrayed by destinations. The beauty is in the walking."

HAPPY WALKING !!!

b.

_________________________________________

We tend to be betrayed by destinations. The beauty is in the walking.

9.1k · October 23, 2003

While that is quite a few not-founds, there is no way I'm gonna vote for you to find another sport, so I didn't vote. Not-founds are part of the game, and if we found every cache, what would be the challenge??

I log all my not-founds and what I like to keep track of are my UNRESOLVED not-founds. I have 496 finds and 26 not-founds. But only 10 of these weren't resolved, either by going back later and finding the cache, or learning that the cache was definitely missing when I hunted for it. When I was a newbie (first three months or so), all three of my not-founds were on caches that were later determined to be missing. So, don't be so hard on yourself. Maybe the cache is gone, maybe you'll find it upon a return visit. Just keep having fun!

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Next time, instead of getting married, I think I'll just find a woman I don't like and buy her a house.

4.8k · October 23, 2003

This was all intended as a light hearted diversion from some of the weightier posts So don't worry, I'm not seriously considering giving up geocaching.

But in the interest of discourse; I have gone back and found all but about six of my DNF's. Three of those are confirmed gone and the other three were within the last week and I have my strong suspicions that they're gone too. A couple are a bit of a drive for me so I haven't gotten back to them yet (both planted by that diabolical genious Kealia).

As far as time spent, I'd have to say I average about 30 minutes on a hunt (that darn attention span thing makes me give up). The longest I've spent on one cache was two hours, but I did find that one. I know that one person has said, "if you feel like you're not going to find it, you might as well right up your DNF already". And that is so true of me

Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them. The rest go geocaching.

38.2k · October 23, 2003

171 finds and 45 not found logs. For about half the not founds, I eventually did find the cache. There is one cache that has 5 of those 45 DNF's. Still haven't found that one

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

4.8k · October 23, 2003

Boy Brian, you sure know how to cheer up a guy. Although in fairness, I don't count each failed attempt as a DNF. That would really skew my data(ROFL)

Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them. The rest go geocaching.

October 23, 2003

We have 103 found and 7 not-found logs. We probably have better luck because there are always two of us looking. I felt pretty bad when we had our first not-found, but they don't seem as hard once you've logged one or two. We found 34 caches before our first not-found and we got two of them that same day. For some reason we get most of them when we are out of town, so we haven't been able to go back for most of them. The one we logged in town we were able to correct the next day.

38.2k · October 23, 2003

I log a DNF for each unsuccessful visit to a cache. If I didn't count multiple DNFs for the same cache, I have 33 DNFs. I subsequently found 14 of the 33.

I'm also pretty liberal as to what I consider a DNF. If I hit Go To on my GPS and don't come up with the cache, I log it as a DNF. Could be a flat tire. Turned around on the trail because of darkness...whatever.

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

October 23, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:
I log a DNF for each unsuccessful visit to a cache

Geez I never thought about it that way! Do most people here typically count multiple failed attempts of the same cache as multiple DNF's??

..now I'm afraid to go retry some of the tuffie DNF's lol

9.1k · October 23, 2003

Each visit tells a story. I log every DNF. For example, have a look at my 3 DNF logs on The Brainbuster Cache. By describing my problems in DNF logs, followed by e-mails back and forth with the hider, we learned first that a key object was missing, rendering the letterbox-style clue worthless (you had to be sitting on a certain park bench and looking in a certain direction, and the park bench was crushed by a fallen tree and removed). Then when he fixed the clues, he made a math error, and my next DNF log fixed that.

I think it scared everyone away though... I logged the last find back in May!

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Next time, instead of getting married, I think I'll just find a woman I don't like and buy her a house.

October 23, 2003

10 DNFs out of 76 finds, for me (~13.16% DNF rate). I've learned from almost all of them.

___________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

5.3k · October 23, 2003

I have a few, 7 to be exact. The most recent one still needs another visit to "clear" (improved coords have been posted), 2 have been archived after my DNF. The other 4 were found on a later attempt.

______________________

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer Simpson

ChiTown Cachers * Keenpeople.com Stats

1.1k · October 23, 2003

We are fairly new with 15 finds. There are 2 caches that I have looked for without success (2 times and 3 times). the 3 timer I actually logged as a Not Found:

In my dreams it lurks,

the clue just out of reach.

Am I slow or overthinking,

IT IS Somewhere on this beach!!!

Stupid cache.........

Understand what? My purpose? You know that. To find the Tower is my purpose. I'm sworn.

-Roland, The Gunslinger

5k · October 23, 2003

I've got multiple DNFs on two caches, I think. And like Brian, I am quite liberal about my definition of a DNF. If I set out to find a cache, and return home not having found it, I log a no-find, regardless of the reason. I even have a no-find on a cache I never really hunted, simply because I learned after the fact that I was very near, and had I looked, I wouldn't have found it due to some outside circumstances.

Anyway, my overall success rate when hunting for a cache runs about 90%. I've gone back to find about half my no-finds.

I used to have a list of no-finds in my profile, but something went awry, and it no longer shows up.

Jamie

4.5k · October 23, 2003

I got something like 20 DNF's and 140 finds. But I give up pretty fast especially if I'm poking around tick infested areas. Two hours? Wow, I give you a lot of credit. That's too boring for me but that's OK cause it's what you find enjoyable that counts. Everyone's different.

There's probably some guy out there still looking that his worried family's is now looking for him.

Alan

October 24, 2003

I have 5 DNF's and 50 finds. One was a problem I had calculating the final coordinates to a Multi-cache, one we started from the wrong area and couldn't make it w/o a serious bushwhack. 3 of the 5, we went back and found then on the 2nd try, and we still have 2 active NOT FOUNDS. If things go well, we should clear those up by the end of the year.

"Real men aren't afraid to log a DNF"

There is no spoon

October 24, 2003

102 logs.

2 Notes.

8 DNF.

92 Finds including 3 of those DNF's.

1 DNF was archived, the rest were found again after us. We'll get back to them either this winter, or we'll do just fine without them.

Of 92 hunts we had 100% fun. That's the important part.

They say this universe is bound to blow,

I say we crank up the Calypso Control!

~Jimmy Buffett

~Someday I Will~

October 24, 2003

Greetings! I have 22 finds, plus two notes (one cache requires a fee during the day, one cache was placed two days after I was in the exact area), one benchmark and only one DNF. Others have looked for that cache called One Mile Light, in Rockland, ME, and have also logged DNFs. It appears to be missing, probably washed out to sea in a Nor'easter.

PeachyPA

Quilter, Cacher, Cubmaster

October 24, 2003

Hello!

We've been doing this since February and have 54 finds. We have had 5 DNF's.

Three of those we logged as DNF's (2 because the cache actually appeared to be missing, and they were). The other DNF we logged was one that we printed out in Feb., and between then and the time we hunted it in June, the owner discovered an error on the Long/Lats posted and made a correction. We posted our error in the hopes that anyone reading our log didn't make the same newbie mistake (ALWAYS RESEARCH AND READ LOGS OF ANY CACHE YOU PLAN TO HUNT JUST BEFORE YOU GO OUT - THINGS CHANGE!!!).

The other 2 DNF's we did not log. Both are still there. One we simply couldn't figure out the clue at a waypoint and intend to go back at a later date and have another crack at it.

The last one, we had everything right, but the cache appears to be on a very unsafe ledge. Many logs about it mention that no one was real happy about shimmying out on that ledge but they did for the cache. That one wasn't worth it to us and will probably not be attempted again. We didn't log it as a DNF because we were frankly pretty much over it.

I don't think our ratio is too bad. I know every DNF we have learned from and found ways to improve our skills, equipment, research, etc. You'll be fine!

October 26, 2003

I have been at this just shy of a year. I currently have 62 finds and 4 not found (94%).

This does not include 4 not founds that I went back and found later. (Calculating that would give me an 88% success rate on first attempts.) One of those I went back to twice before determining that it had been plundered. The cache owner deleted those DNF logs when he re-placed the cache.

There were also two caches that I went searching for based on waypoints I had added months before in preparation for a long trip. In the meantime they had been archived.

I'm not so strict as "if I set a GOTO then it's a DNF". For example, earlier this year I rode my bike from near Pittsburgh to Washington DC along the Great Allegheny Passage and the C&O Canal towpath. There was several caches that I had waypointed along the way that, when I got in the vicinity, decided that I was not going to leave the trail to find. Either there was no trail (sometimes hard to know in advance when looking at a map) or was too much of detour to make after having already spent 10 hours on the bike. I didn't log these because I never really made any attempt to search.

But, more importantly than the numbers of not founds is the why of the not found. I've noticed that most of my not founds were early on. From those, I learned techniques to find the caches. The most helpful to me is the "if I were a geocache" technique. Once you get in the area, start thinking about where you might hide a cache. Don't rely on the GPSr. It can only get you so close.

Kordite

ph34r my l33t kl1n90n 5k1ll5.

1.7k · October 26, 2003

I have 3 (or maybe 4) caches where I have logged one of more DNFs.

Luckily (?) all but one cache really was gone.

DustyJacket

Not all those that wander are lost. But in my case...

5.7k · October 26, 2003

I have 173 DNFs in 2008 finds, so just under 10%. Not that different from you.

--Marky

...Be nice to your fellow geocachers, they might be Hemlock...

2.7k · October 26, 2003

1126 Finds and 123 DNFs roughly 91% sucess rate.

3.5k · October 26, 2003

I have no idea how many Not Founds I have, but I *do* get grief here in the Lone Star state about having the 2nd most in the state. My percentage of found to wiffed? I have no idea.

Like The Leprechauns and Touchstone, I log a DNF every failed attempt. These logs really help a cache hider learn about their cache.

Does anyone want to talk about geocaching?

www.texasgeocaching.com

October 27, 2003

138 founds including about 10 ex-DNFs

6 active DNFs (2 of them were archived soon after my search)

3-4 'not able to search because...' -notes.

In general I think 10% ratio is very good and I was surprised to see how lucky I have been. (Maybe I should search the difficult ones too )

October 27, 2003

I am pretty new to Geocaching, too.

I got approx. 25 finds, and two DNF.

Both have been found on my second attempt.

I'd post DNFs even if they are multiples.

On both DNFs I got some extra hints from the cache owners (I was very helpful, as my first DNF was my first cache ever, and a pretty hard one, too)

October 27, 2003

Now 117 logs.

3 notes.

10 DNF.

2 DNF archived after we missed it. Actually one was archived after we left to find it & before we got to it.

114 hunts, 100% Spiffy!

Our favorite DNF: GC6C85

They say this universe is bound to blow,

I say we crank up the Calypso Control!

~Jimmy Buffett

~Someday I Will~

3k · October 27, 2003

I remember there was a similar thread last year about find/couldn't find stats. Here's my update:

To date, I have failed to find a total of 29 caches on the first attempt. I found 14 of them on a second visit, so ultimately I have failed to find 15 caches.

Anyway, my "success ratio" works out as:

1060 caches attempted

1031 found on initial visit = 97.2% initial success

1060 caches attempted

1045 ultimately found = 98.58% ultimate success rate

Sadly, 9 of my DNFs were either confirmed missing by their owners or were never found by anyone.

October 27, 2003

hmm. 69 found, 4 not found. all not founds were later found to be missing.

BUT. I don't log a not found unless I really really looked, hard, and all indications point to a missing cache. Sometimes I pay a visit and have 'reasonable doubt' that I've done all I could do, so I watch the cache for awhile and see if someone else found it. Either way I eventually pay another visit, and usually the 2nd visit turns it up.

I don't agree that you should log an DNF even if you failed to reach the cache site. A log that reads, "Drove to the trailhead but didn't feel like hiking up there in the remaining daylight" just doesn't do anything for me. It's not a "did not find", it's a "did not LOOK". We care about that why?

5.7k · October 27, 2003

I make a log entry every time I get to the cache site, regardless of whether I find it or not. If I wasn't able to give it a good search, I might just leave a note. If I gave up for the day, I post a DNF. I think cache owners like to know who was looking for their cache. I know I do, regardless of the outcome.

--Marky

...Be nice to your fellow geocachers, they might be Hemlock...

24.7k · October 27, 2003

Gimme back some stats and I can tell you! My guess is between 1 in 20 and 1 in 40.

October 28, 2003

I give you credit at least you log your DNFs.

I do too if I enter the search zone. (If my GPS goes to feet then it is a DNF if I don't get it.) And it is a note if I get out of the car but for some reason turn back before that.

However far too many cacher's don't log them.

So your poll should have had one more choice:

I don't log DNFs because it is embarsassing.

October 29, 2003

Not entirely on topic but sort of relates to filing DNF's (or maybe not).

When benchmark hunting, I will often visit a site area several times before actually locating and photographing the benchmark.

I read the directions and parse them into steps. On each visit or drive-by, I'll attempt to determine yet one more step until I locate the actual benchmark.

Right now I'm working on one that's located on a fairly busy street. I know the exact location of the benchmark but have to time one of my future visits such that I can take a pic in between traffic.

October 29, 2003

I've only done a total of 10 cache hunts so far. (I'm new!). I have logged 2 DNF so far. One was because I just gave up because of the burs and prickers and it just wasn't fun anymore. The second one was because I searched for 45 minutes. My GPS said I was 0-3 feet away. I started there and worked my way out in a circular pattern up to 50 ft away from that spot and still did not find it. I went back online to read the other logs and have determined (now this is only my opinion) that the cache is no longer there but people still log that they found it. Their logs were very vague. I have no way of proving this because I couldn't find the cache and read the logbook inside. I could care less about being embarassed about not finding the cahe. I do care that this cache might have to be archived but people might be cheating (my opinion only!!!) and just uping there cache finds for their own glory I guess.

GEOCACHING CHANGED MY LIFE - Laugh everyday. Life's too short. But if you have to get mad then that's OK too.

1.7k · October 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by cutsandbruises:
.....I could care less about being embarrassed about not finding the cahe.......

Don't be embarrassed.

A DNF means nothing derogatory.

In fact, it means the cache hider did a good job. Or the cache is missing/moved.

My first DNF may or may not have been missing as the person who posted a found the same day did not include the time. I decided not to try again as it was too public. It went missing after that.

My last DNF was one I didn't find, so I went back the next night and found it.

I'm not embarrassed by my DNFs. There will be many more for me. (A DNF does make me go bach and try again.)

(BTW - I voted the last choice as a joke.

Who cares about "ratios" of finds, DNFs, difficulty ratings, or any other statistic people come up with. This is for fun, not fortune and fame.)

DustyJacket

Not all those that wander are lost. But in my case...

4.8k · October 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by DustyJacket:
(BTW - I voted the last choice as a joke.

Who cares about "ratios" of finds, DNFs, difficulty ratings, or any other statistic people come up with. This is for fun, not fortune and fame.)

DustyJacket

I have to agree with you. I post my DNF's more in fun than anything else. But it does pull my chain a bit when someone with about 3 finds goes to a cache I've DNF'd and says, "Found it, no problem".Grrrrrr

We have a local cacher with zillions of finds that wears his DNF's as a badge of honor. He even brags of being, "the worlds most inept cacher". What a laugh! I don't think you could get to that number of finds without being pretty good (or maybe just stubborn)

Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them. The rest go geocaching.

3k · October 29, 2003

Stats aren't fun? You've got to be kidding me! Compiling stats is 100% more satisfying than 99.9% of the drive-n-dump dash-n-grab caches out there.

Remember what Yogi Berra said: "90% of the game is half mental." Stats fit in there somewhere.

October 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Touchstone:

quote:
Originally posted by DustyJacket:
(BTW - I voted the last choice as a joke.

Who cares about "ratios" of finds, DNFs, difficulty ratings, or any other statistic people come up with. This is for fun, not fortune and fame.)

DustyJacket

I have to agree with you. I post my DNF's more in fun than anything else.

I agree with both of you. This is (for me) fun, and a way to get some exercise not a competition.

I was assuming that you logged a DNF when you looked for but *did* *not* *find* a cache. I imagine the 'note' facility is for logging repeat visits since you don't really have to 'find' it again.

Some people will turn anything into a competition I guess.

OhNoMrBill (Bill Hudson, Gilroy CA)

3k · October 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by OhNoMrBill:

I agree with both of you. This is (for me) fun, and a way to get some exercise not a competition. ...Some people will turn anything into a competition I guess.

I agree. Isn't it amusing how those who don't like stats always compete to shoot down those who do?

I log all my finds. I log all my DNFs. I compile my stats, because when I'm done caching for the day/week/month/year, I've got some stats to compile. Isn't it great!?! All that terrific exercise for the body provides a little stimulating exercise for the mind, too! Fun, fun, fun!

October 29, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

I agree. Isn't it amusing how those who don't like stats always compete to shoot down those who do?

I log all my finds. I log all my DNFs. I compile my stats, because when I'm done caching for the day/week/month/year, I've got some stats to compile. Isn't it great!?! All that terrific exercise for the body provides a little stimulating exercise for the mind. Fun, fun, fun!

I think you've missed the point.

What we're really discussing here is not the compilation of stats for your own amusement, but rather the idea that someone would avoid logging DNFs as a way of artificially inflating their stats. To what purpose, I don't know. Bragging rights?

If you like stats, terrific. I log my finds and DNFs so I guess I like them enough to track them for my own amusement. Otherwise, why bother? I could just find the caches and leave them unlogged and undisturbed.

But when someone turns it into a competition to see who can get the best stats, then I'll point out that there are probably a hundred ways to cheat.

So, no, I don't care to be in a 'stats race'.

OhNoMrBill (Bill Hudson, Gilroy CA)

October 29, 2003

I've been caching for 2 and a half months and have 44finds and 2no finds. One of the dnf's I have been back to and still can't find although it has been found since!!!

I tend to spend about half hour at the cache location before I give up. I may also go get some food or sit somewhere for 5mins reviewing the information before going back to search again.

The no find I have returned to is a multi and I'm planning to start again from scratch to make sure I have the information right.

Daft Tart

How many DNF's do you have?

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