+fivegallon Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 Just spent an hour reading through lots of old posts but ended up confused. What's the difference between Palm and PPC? More to the point,which one requires the least third party apps? I'm unsure if i'm needing a Palm,an Ipaq,or some other option. What i'm after is the PDA that will help me to cache,with the least number of steps to get the info onto said PDA Money is no object Link to comment
+GeckoGeek Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 (edited) What i'm after is the PDA that will help me to cache,with the least number of steps to get the info onto said PDA Money is no object Sweet! I love a "money is no object" type of challenge. I'm more of a Palm/CacheMate kind of guy, but from what I hear about PPC's GPXSonar you just have to send the GPX file over to it and it's done. I suppose that if you receive email on the PDA then you may not even have to do that, just open the attachment. Given your selection criteria, I think that's a hard choice to beat. However, a Garmin iQue might be up to the challenge. While it's more complicated to get the GPX file into the unit, once it's in the iQue, it's already in your GPS! Edited March 12, 2004 by GeckoGeek Link to comment
+CacheCreatures Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 <Deep Breath> Ok here we go... First, as you've probably read choosing a palm over a ppc is a highly personal choice. Its analogous to asking ford or Chevy, Garmin or Magellan, Pepsi or coke... each have their pluses and minuses, and each has a die hard following. Having said that, I'm a PPC fan. To answer your question specifically, I have found that using a PPC enables caching with 2 applications only: GPXSonar and Mapopolis. GPXSonar displays all the caches and Mapopolis gets me there. Here is what I do specifically: 1) I'll create a pocket query (PQ) for a given area/type of cache I'm interested. I scheduled my PQs for once a week so I stay current. 2) Each week PQs will show up in my email box in the form of .gpx files. 3) I'll take those .gpx files and copy them to my PPC. 4) Also, I will use a little utility on my PC created by Mapopolis to convert .gpx files into .mlp files; mapopolis maplets. 5) I'll take those .mlp files and copy them to my PPC. 6) Now, on my PPC, when I open GPXSonar, it will ask what .gpx file to load. I'll specify one and it will open all the caches within that file. 7) When I open Mapopolis on my PPC, it will load those mlp files and show dots all over the place, for each cache. That sounds like a lot, but it really isnt. From start to finish the whole process takes under five minutes to get the files up and running on my PPC. After that, its just a matter of finding one and hunting away! I've never tried this on a Palm, but my impression is it is not nearly as straight forward. Maybe a Palm expert can comment. Hope that helps! Don't hesitate to ask further questions. Link to comment
+fivegallon Posted March 12, 2004 Author Share Posted March 12, 2004 OK,i need to show my ignorance here and ask this one: What is a PPC - obvious acronym aside that is! Is it a non-Palm PDA? Does it cover a variety of PDA's? Had a look at the Garmin iQue - that's a pretty awesome looking unit. Did i read correctly? Does it have a GPS built-in? If that is the case,it appears to be a good deal. Link to comment
+JamesJM Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 <Deep Breath> Ok here we go... Almost precisely my method. I have one additional step. I have to get a .zip of the Pocket Query because Outlook will not accept a .gpx file. so, obviously, I have to unzip it before I can transfer it to my PPC. It took me some time to get a good working rhythm going with all those steps but I agree, it's not all that hard and once you have a rhythm it's positively greased-lightening quick. This morning I received a PQ with a new cache nearby, (no caches are very close to me so I have to take advantage of the few that are), and in less than 5 minutes I was out the door headed toward the cache. Sonar .gpx loaded, maplet loaded, navigation route keyed in..the works. - JamesJM Link to comment
+CacheCreatures Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 OK,i need to show my ignorance here and ask this one: What is a PPC - obvious acronym aside that is! Is it a non-Palm PDA? Does it cover a variety of PDA's? Had a look at the Garmin iQue - that's a pretty awesome looking unit. Did i read correctly? Does it have a GPS built-in? If that is the case,it appears to be a good deal. A PPC, or PocketPC actually refers to the operating system that runs on a PDA, or personal data assistant. Palm is also an operating system that runs on a PDA. In other words, Palm and PPC are two different methods to run a PDA. Because they are so different, they of course run on different hardware. So, you cant take a PPC operating system and install it on a device designed for Palm, and vice versa. Think Apple and PC. So, if someone says they use a PPC, they are specifying an operating system and a hardware type. Also, applications (software) are generally designed for one or the other. Just like the hardware, an application designed for the palm wont run on the ppc. Make sense? As for the iQue, it is a Palm based device with a build in GPS. Very nice, save one big thing: I hear the battery life is pretty bad. You can add a GPS unit to any PPC that has a compact flash slot (CF for short). For details regarding that, do a search on "CF GPS" or "compact flash GPS" or maybe even "bluetooth", but thats a different story. I know, it sounds really complicated. Its not though. There is a learning curve, but you're in for that no matter what you choose, Palm or PPC. Link to comment
+fivegallon Posted March 12, 2004 Author Share Posted March 12, 2004 OK,i need to show my ignorance here and ask this one: What is a PPC - obvious acronym aside that is! Is it a non-Palm PDA? Does it cover a variety of PDA's? Had a look at the Garmin iQue - that's a pretty awesome looking unit. Did i read correctly? Does it have a GPS built-in? If that is the case,it appears to be a good deal. A PPC, or PocketPC actually refers to the operating system that runs on a PDA, or personal data assistant. Palm is also an operating system that runs on a PDA. In other words, Palm and PPC are two different methods to run a PDA. Because they are so different, they of course run on different hardware. So, you cant take a PPC operating system and install it on a device designed for Palm, and vice versa. Think Apple and PC. So, if someone says they use a PPC, they are specifying an operating system and a hardware type. Also, applications (software) are generally designed for one or the other. Just like the hardware, an application designed for the palm wont run on the ppc. Make sense? As for the iQue, it is a Palm based device with a build in GPS. Very nice, save one big thing: I hear the battery life is pretty bad. You can add a GPS unit to any PPC that has a compact flash slot (CF for short). For details regarding that, do a search on "CF GPS" or "compact flash GPS" or maybe even "bluetooth", but thats a different story. I know, it sounds really complicated. Its not though. There is a learning curve, but you're in for that no matter what you choose, Palm or PPC. Thanks,that has definitely cleared up some grey areas. Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 Least steps? Clearly that's a Pocket PC. Use a pocket query to email you a GPX file. Copy the GPX file to your sync directory (this will be created under My Documents on your computer when you install the Pocket PC software) That will automaticlly copy the GPX file with your caches to the PDA's memory. Use either GPXview or GPX sonar on your PDA to read the files and see your caches. If you really wanted to minimize steps use a special email address that downloads the GPX email directly to your sync directory. Your entire update process would then be automatic. Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 One other tidbit. GPXview will export the Microsoft Streets and Trips (for the Pocket PC) pushpin format. Simply load the GPX file you want and export to the map directory when you need a map. Since you don't make the psp file until you need it and you can do it on your PDA you still only need to copy the one gpx file to your PDA. S&T will show you where the caches are on the map. I'm hoping GPX sonar will soon add this function (and the same thing for Mapopolis which I'm told is a better program than Pocket S&T though I'm happy with the program on the Pocket PC) Link to comment
+fivegallon Posted March 12, 2004 Author Share Posted March 12, 2004 Least steps? Clearly that's a Pocket PC. Use a pocket query to email you a GPX file. Copy the GPX file to your sync directory (this will be created under My Documents on your computer when you install the Pocket PC software) That will automaticlly copy the GPX file with your caches to the PDA's memory. Use either GPXview or GPX sonar on your PDA to read the files and see your caches. If you really wanted to minimize steps use a special email address that downloads the GPX email directly to your sync directory. Your entire update process would then be automatic. Great,thanks for your input. Do you use a pocket pc yourself? If so,which one? Link to comment
+Dave_W6DPS Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 (edited) Just spent an hour reading through lots of old posts but ended up confused. What's the difference between Palm and PPC? More to the point,which one requires the least third party apps? I'm unsure if i'm needing a Palm,an Ipaq,or some other option. What i'm after is the PDA that will help me to cache,with the least number of steps to get the info onto said PDA Money is no object This comparison might help. It is fairly balanced and from a reasonably neutral party. If you have never used either, there will be a learning curve. There is a lot of overlap on what they do and how they do it, but they are basically as different as Windows/Intel desktops and Macintosh. Asking which is better is like asking about "Ford versus Chevy" or "Nintendo versus Playstation". Personally, I like Palm OS handhelds. I think the learning curve is horter and they tend to be much better on battery capacity. Check out a shareware programs at www.palmgear.com; search for "geocache" or "geocaching". There are a number of titles available that are very inexpensive. The one I wrote is called GC Logger--yes I have reason to be biased for Palm. Hope this helps, Dave_W6DPS Edited March 12, 2004 by Dave_W6DPS Link to comment
+fivegallon Posted March 12, 2004 Author Share Posted March 12, 2004 Just spent an hour reading through lots of old posts but ended up confused. What's the difference between Palm and PPC? More to the point,which one requires the least third party apps? I'm unsure if i'm needing a Palm,an Ipaq,or some other option. What i'm after is the PDA that will help me to cache,with the least number of steps to get the info onto said PDA Money is no object This comparison might help. It is fairly balanced and from a reasonably neutral party. If you have never used either, there will be a learning curve. There is a lot of overlap on what they do and how they do it, but they are basically as different as Windows/Intel desktops and Macintosh. Asking which is better is like asking about "Ford versus Chevy" or "Nintendo versus Playstation". Personally, I like Palm OS handhelds. I think the learning curve is horter and they tend to be much better on battery capacity. Check out a shareware programs at www.palmgear.com; search for "geocache" or "geocaching". There are a number of titles available that are very inexpensive. The one I wrote is called GC Logger--yes I have reason to be biased for Palm. Hope this helps, Dave_W6DPS Had a read of the article,fairly interesting stuff. Doesn't make my choice any easier,but i am learning lots. Thanks Link to comment
+bons Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 For those people out there who don't like either the PPC (windows) or Palm, the Sharpo Zaurus runs on Linux. Get PQ in GPX format. Run it through GPX spinner which converts .gpx to a directory of HTML files including indexes. Load newly created directory of HTML files on CF or SD card. Surf. For an even shorter method. Web enabled cell phone. http://www.geocaching.com/wap or http://rtr.ca/geo Price is no object method: http://www.sonyericsson.com/P800/main.htm - you should be able to log the find online while you're still at the cache and you can take photos while you're at it. Link to comment
+M_M_Minidog Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 just another piece of input. I've had both a palm device for a number of years, and now a PPC. Hopefully that allows me a bit less bias... That being said, I will totally recommend the PPC. I don't know how battery life compares, but with the newer CF gps units, battery life has yet to be an issue for me. The OS itself seems much sleeker, easier, and more functional on the PPC. I think it's mainly because being from Microsoft, it's so similar to Windows itself. I don't consider myself a MS fan, but my personal thought is they've done the ppc correctly. Plus, I have far fewer syncing issues with this than I did with Palm (for better or worse, since it's a MS device, they make sure it syncs, where as they have no reason to make it that easy for palm devices). OK, now can you tell me everything there is to know about gpx files? I'm a mapopolis user, and this seems like it could be an awesome way to better utilize my time. Give me as much detail as you can on this, please.... Thanks -Brian Link to comment
+BuckyD Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 A bit of a newbie question, but I just got my palm and am trying to figure out the whole paperless thing -- what is the difference between the mobipocket reader files that the GC.com pocket queries can provide and loading the gpx files on the palm via something like Cachemate? Do they both give the cache page/logs/hints? Thx! Link to comment
+NightPilot Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 MobiPocket reader sucks. It takes a lot of memory, and the interface leaves a lot to be desired. It's basically an ebook reader, and far from the best at that; using it to read cache pages is installing screws with a hammer. You get the same information, but it's harder to get through with Mobi. If you want to see the web pages as they appear on gc.com, get Plucker. Either GPXSpinner or GSAK will generate the html files you need. Plucker also will get any web page for you and put it on your Palm. Link to comment
+scarng Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 A bit of a newbie question, but I just got my palm and am trying to figure out the whole paperless thing -- what is the difference between the mobipocket reader files that the GC.com pocket queries can provide and loading the gpx files on the palm via something like Cachemate? Do they both give the cache page/logs/hints?Thx! I've been a pda user for a very long time. I had a Sharp Zaurs 5800, Palm IIIxe, Handera, a Tungsten T, and now the Tungsten T3 (I'm spying the Zodiac by Tapeware-- Looks promising). I'm in disaster recovery field -- so I look for expandability out of all my pdas. I travel a lot, so portability is a must. Here is why I use the Palm platform (specifically the ARM Processor). 1) Software - there is more software out there for the Palm OS than there is for the PocketPC. 2) Battery Life is much better 3) Tons of developers releasing stuff everyday 4) Simple to develop you own apps - several developer languages 5) Versatile Little device: - I can listen to audio books - either mp3, or audible.com format - I can watch a two hour movie on a 512 SD memory card using MMplayer - I can listen to hundreds of mp3 songs in stereo via expansion card (SD) - I have all my contacts, appointments, memos, expense reports on my palm - I can read word, excel, and powerpoint documents - using DocsToGo - I can take voice notes that can be exported as wav files (great for caching and meeting notes. - Play games - poker, rayman, magicworld, lemmings, donkeykong, pacman, etc. - I can geocache using compass by GPSPilot, Cachemate, CacheNam, CETUS, Mapopolis and lots more stuff out there. One device can do it all. Link to comment
+CacheCreatures Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 just another piece of input. I've had both a palm device for a number of years, and now a PPC. Hopefully that allows me a bit less bias...That being said, I will totally recommend the PPC. I don't know how battery life compares, but with the newer CF gps units, battery life has yet to be an issue for me. The OS itself seems much sleeker, easier, and more functional on the PPC. I think it's mainly because being from Microsoft, it's so similar to Windows itself. I don't consider myself a MS fan, but my personal thought is they've done the ppc correctly. Plus, I have far fewer syncing issues with this than I did with Palm (for better or worse, since it's a MS device, they make sure it syncs, where as they have no reason to make it that easy for palm devices). OK, now can you tell me everything there is to know about gpx files? I'm a mapopolis user, and this seems like it could be an awesome way to better utilize my time. Give me as much detail as you can on this, please.... I too come from a Palm background and agree with your statements wholeheartedly. GPX files are files geocaching.com will send you if you are a premium member, and have configured the gpx generator. If you're a premium member, you'll find the generator on your My Cache Page -> Member Features. Read the directions and make yourself a "pocket query"; the term given to the search criteria used in creating your gpx file. Once you have the gpx file in hand, you can use this cute little application from Mapopolis: GPXToMaplet This will convert the gpx file into a maplet, which is Mapopolis' file format for showing landmarks. Load the newly created .mlp into your device, be sure to select it on the Choose Map screen, and you'll see a whole lotta dots indicating cache locations. As mentioned elsewhere, you can also use that GPX file with GPXSonar for a complete paperless solution. Link to comment
+scarng Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Once you have the gpx file in hand, you can use this cute little application from Mapopolis: GPXToMaplet This will convert the gpx file into a maplet, which is Mapopolis' file format for showing landmarks. Load the newly created .mlp into your device, be sure to select it on the Choose Map screen, and you'll see a whole lotta dots indicating cache locations. Are we talking the same mapopolis - I don't see how to use the .mlp on my Mapopolis Navigator 1.31 for the palm ? Link to comment
+CacheCreatures Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Once you have the gpx file in hand, you can use this cute little application from Mapopolis: GPXToMaplet This will convert the gpx file into a maplet, which is Mapopolis' file format for showing landmarks. Load the newly created .mlp into your device, be sure to select it on the Choose Map screen, and you'll see a whole lotta dots indicating cache locations. Are we talking the same mapopolis - I don't see how to use the .mlp on my Mapopolis Navigator 1.31 for the palm ? I'm on the PPC version so I can only speak to that. However, I have heard mention here that the .mlp file works just as well on the Palm. Maybe a Palm expert can answer for you specifically? On the PPC, you would choose it as a map to load, just like any other map. It automatically shows up on the screen that allows you to select maps. Sorry I can't be of more help Link to comment
VT ARL 784 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Well, I'm not a devotee(sp?) of forums, but this one seems to be a suitable place to pose my question: I'm definately looking at getting a PDA, but I'm stumped on how to analyse all the options. First, money is a huge factor ... the $170 M505 would be a stretch. Second, what I am hoping to use it for is storing BM DataSheets, maybe 3-500. From there I'm not even sure what I'd do. At the moment, I drive around with BMs entered on my MeriPlat, and when I come upon one, I pull over, and see if I've printed out that datasheet. If I have not, I stomp around trying to guess where the benchmark might be, and give, go home, try to figure out how to carry all this info with me. I have a w2k laptop from work that I use primarily, now. I have an older iMac at home that I hope to use once I get a USB-DB9 connector. That's also why I want a Palm -- it's dual platform functionality. But I don't need lots of do-das with it; I don't even need color. Can ya'll give me some ideas on what will communicate with what and what cables that would need. Frankly, I can't see why I'd need to connect the PDA to the GPS, but perhaps you can enlighten me on that, too. Thanks! Link to comment
+JeremyA Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Are we talking the same mapopolis - I don't see how to use the .mlp on my Mapopolis Navigator 1.31 for the palm Mapopolis on Palm OS and Mapopolis on PPC are very different. For some reason, they decided to get rid of maplets on the Palm. As you are using the latest version of Mapopolis, you have geomarks instead. This is basically a link between your address book and mapopolis (add coordinates to the 'custom 1' field of addresses in your address book and that address will be marked in mapopolis). Cachemate has a plugin that allows you to send waypoints from cachemate to mapopolis as geomarks. JeremyA Link to comment
+JeepCachr Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Are we talking the same mapopolis - I don't see how to use the .mlp on my Mapopolis Navigator 1.31 for the palm Mapopolis on Palm OS and Mapopolis on PPC are very different. For some reason, they decided to get rid of maplets on the Palm. As you are using the latest version of Mapopolis, you have geomarks instead. This is basically a link between your address book and mapopolis (add coordinates to the 'custom 1' field of addresses in your address book and that address will be marked in mapopolis). Cachemate has a plugin that allows you to send waypoints from cachemate to mapopolis as geomarks. JeremyA I have a pocketPC and have owned Palms in the past. PPC is by far the more flexible and powerfull OS. Its basically mini windows giving you maximum compatability and I would argue there is more software available for it along with it being a easier platform to develop to. You can argue that you can open Word documents with a third party app but I can open them in Pocket Word along with pocket excel, Pocket IE, ect.... add to that the ability to use practically every format of audio and video that is available on the pc. Palm does have advantages. Usually in size and battery life but mostly because the palms displays are not as good. As far as the items Scarng listed my pocket PC will do everyone of them plus it has bluetooth built in and 802.11b wireless. I have a SD slot so taking every map in the US with me is easily done. Mapopolis does auto-routing and voice directions. My bluetooth GPS talks to it wirelessly so no cable nightmares and the receiver can be placed where it can get a good view while the PPC can be placed where it can easily be used. I only need 2 programs on my PPC for geocaching. Mapopolis and GPXsonar. GPXsonar doesn't require any conversion or tweaking to read the gpx from gc.com. On my PC all I need is GPXtoMaplet to create the waypoint file for Mapopolis. There are many other programs I could use like USAphoto maps which can export aerial photos or topo maps as a JPG with the cache coordinates pin pointed. I hunger for one feature in GPXsonar and from what I've heard its coming. That is the ability to click on a cache in GPXS and have it bring up the map and vice versa to click on the map and have it take you to the cache details. I believe this can be done today with Oziexplorer maps and GPXS but I have not confirmed it. Link to comment
+NightPilot Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 I have to disagree with you about the Palm display being inferior. I have a Zire 71, and my son has a PPC, and he drools over my screen. The newest Palm high-resolution screens are far superior to PPCs. As for which to get, decide what you intend to do with the PDA, what software will get it done, and buy hardware that runs that software. If you want mostly calendar and contact type things, then get a Palm. If you want to run mapping software, get a PPC. Most other things are pretty much equal, even to the point that Palms work with Office files better than PPCs do. Link to comment
+TerraTrekkers Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 I usually don't get involved in these Ford vs. Chevy type of discussions but I have to agree with NightPilot. The research I did before buying my PPC explained that the Palm OS was written to be a PDA where as a PPC with it's Windows based OS was written more as a full featured PC. Decide what you want to use it for and buy accordingly. I use a Toshiba e755 with GPXSonar and Mapopolis and it works great while others have the same success with their Palm Pilots. Jim Link to comment
+embra Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 I'm definately looking at getting a PDA, but I'm stumped on how to analyse all the options. First, money is a huge factor ... the $170 M505 would be a stretch. Second, what I am hoping to use it for is storing BM DataSheets, maybe 3-500. From there I'm not even sure what I'd do. <snip> Can ya'll give me some ideas on what will communicate with what and what cables that would need. Frankly, I can't see why I'd need to connect the PDA to the GPS, but perhaps you can enlighten me on that, too. Thanks! If money is an issue, I would grab a Palm IIIx or a IIIxe or something that has at least 2MB, and preferably more like 4 or even 8. I used a IIIx with 4MB for caching and benchmarking for a long time before I decided to upgrade. A very quick look at eBay showed a brand new IIIxe (8MB) just about to close auction at $51. You are right in supposing that cables connecting the GPS to PDA are unnecessary. I use the following process: 1. Get the archived data sheets from the NGS site for counties of interest. 2. Run them through bmgpx to get the data in gpx format 3. Open the data in GSAK. That program will let you edit your benchmark list to exclude anything you don't care about, and then a. Send the waypoints directly to your Meridian or SD card b. Generate html pages of the data sheets 4. Use Plucker to move the html into the Palm. I love traveling around with my Meridian and Palm. I have 1800 benchmarks in six counties and 200 caches: waypoints on the Meridian SD card and datasheets/cache pages in the Palm. The hardest part is finding my quarry--as it should be! Link to comment
+JeepCachr Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Sorry if I'm a little overzealous in the palm vs ppc debate. If you want to debate which one can do more then I would argue the PPC is going to win hands down. If you want to debate which one can get the job done it all depends on what the job is. I don't have experience with caching with a palm or know anyone that is using one but I know several people using PPC's for caching. Link to comment
+JeremyA Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Sorry if I'm a little overzealous in the palm vs ppc debate. If you want to debate which one can do more then I would argue the PPC is going to win hands down. In your zealousness you have forgotten to mention one thing... Exactly what are these more things that you can do with a PPC that you can't do with a Palm? Off the top of my head I can't think of one. JeremyA Link to comment
+CacheCreatures Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Sorry if I'm a little overzealous in the palm vs ppc debate. If you want to debate which one can do more then I would argue the PPC is going to win hands down. In your zealousness you have forgotten to mention one thing... Exactly what are these more things that you can do with a PPC that you can't do with a Palm? Off the top of my head I can't think of one. JeremyA Uh oh. Lets try and keep this on topic guys Can we all agree that each device will do what its designed to do, very well? And that its differences in users that account for most of the debate, not actual device discrepancies? Link to comment
+NightPilot Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 Ummm...... I thought that was the topic. Link to comment
+CacheCreatures Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 Ummm...... I thought that was the topic. I give up. Let the Palm vs PPC war commence! All innocents, take cover! Link to comment
+JeepCachr Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 What's the difference between Palm and PPC? More to the point,which one requires the least third party apps? I'm unsure if i'm needing a Palm,an Ipaq,or some other option. What i'm after is the PDA that will help me to cache,with the least number of steps to get the info onto said PDA Money is no object I will attempt to stay on topic and respond to the thread starters questions. The difference in palm and PPC is the operating system. Palm is its own OS while PPC is basically a scaled down version of Windows. The pocketpc is going to cost you more to start but its going to include a lot of things like word and excel that would cost you extra on the Palm. The PPC is more like a scaled down version of windows and the palm is a simpler operating system which is easier at the cost of features. Typically your going to spend $400 for a decent PPC while a decent Palm is going to be around $200. The palm is generally going to be smaller and have longer battery life while the PPC has a bigger screen which makes them overall bigger and have shorter battery life. As far as caching goes your going to need a map program and something to read GPX files. I love mapopolis on my PPC and as far as I can tell the palm version is similar. The only big complaint I've heard is how you get waypoints into the palm. They show up as contacts in your address book. For reading GPX files I use GPXsonar, its free and very easy. All I need to do is copy the gpx file to the PC I don't have to do any tweaking or converting. I'd bet there is something similar for the palm. So it depends on what else you want to do with your pocket device. Is there a certain program or peice of hardware you want to use? Do you want a bigger screen or a smaller lighter device? Do you want a simpler operating system or one with more features? Off topic alert Jeremy can your palm do this? -Terminal Server Client -HP remote insight board client -HP insight manager -voice over IP phone -microsoft reader -browse network file shares -Pocket RAR (unzip rar or zip) -Virtual display (rotate, scroll, or compress your display) -Play WMV, divx, vidx files (plus almost any video or audio file format out there) -scrabble -arcade and console emulators This is not a list of everything the palm can't do, its a list of what I do on the PPC that I don't think the palm can do. I use my PPC for all these things. Link to comment
+JeremyA Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 Thank you JeepCachr! I normally stay out of 'X vs Y' threads as I don't really see the point in them - my answer to such questions is usually do your research and choose whichever solution is right for you. However, it gets to me when people say things like "X can do more than Y" without being able to say what that 'more' is, or worse, say that X can do this and Y can't when actually Y can. So I am glad that you feel able to put your money where your mouth is. There are a number of good Geocaching solutions for the Palm. Granted there is nothing that can read GPX files directly but in many of the Palm solutions conversion from GPX to the necessary format is effortless (I have the whole thing automated so that my PQ arrives in the email, is processed and queued for syncing to my Palm without any intervention on my part). Going off-topic: The pocketpc is going to cost you more to start but its going to include a lot of things like word and excel that would cost you extra on the Palm. My Palm came bundled with documents-to-go which can read/edit/create Word/Excel/Powerpoint files. I have no experience of the PPC counterparts but I have read in a number of places that documents-to-go is generally considered better. -Terminal Server Client -HP remote insight board client -HP insight manager -voice over IP phone -browse network file shares With these you may or may not be correct - I don't use my Palm for networking so I can't comment on the Palms networking capabilities except to say that there are some networking capabilities there. -microsoft reader A proprietary solution from Microsoft which, of course, the Palm OS can't read. There are however a number of eBook solutions for the Palm including the cross-platform Palm Reader that can read eBooks bought from the PalmDigitalMedia store. -Pocket RAR (unzip rar or zip) Here you are correct - due to the way that Palm OS is currently written dealing with zip files is difficult. There are archiving solutions for the Palm but they are native formats. Palm OS 6, when it comes out, should make this sort of thing easier to do. -Virtual display (rotate, scroll, or compress your display) -Play WMV, divx, vidx files (plus almost any video or audio file format out there) -scrabble -arcade and console emulators Yes all of these are possible on the Palm. The exception being WMV which you would have to convert to a suitable format first, however it is perfectly possible to live without WMV on both your PDA and desktop (but that really is something for discussion another forum). JeremyA Link to comment
+Cam, Beck, Mum & Dad Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 or you could just use your bluetooth phone and pda and surf to gc.com while you are stood at top of the mountain. Link to comment
+GeckoGeek Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 Off topic alertJeremy can your palm do this? -Terminal Server Client -HP remote insight board client -HP insight manager -voice over IP phone -microsoft reader -browse network file shares -Pocket RAR (unzip rar or zip) -Virtual display (rotate, scroll, or compress your display) -Play WMV, divx, vidx files (plus almost any video or audio file format out there) -scrabble -arcade and console emulators This is not a list of everything the palm can't do, its a list of what I do on the PPC that I don't think the palm can do. I use my PPC for all these things. Dang JeepCachr, that sounds like WORK . If you need to plug into the borg, then by all means, buy a PPC. If you use yours for play, the a Palm should be considered. And for the record, no I don't own a Mac. I leaned PC because I could earn a paycheck that way and saw no point in learning another OS for home use. I bought a Palm because it had way more available in free/cheapware at the time and so far I've seen no reason to change. My PDA is for my use, not for work. At one time it seemed that I would regularly see Palm users that tried WinCE and came back. It seemed for all the options WinCE gave, it required too much fiddling to do what Palm did in almost without thinking. Now I think I am seeing more a migration from Palm to PPC, but I think that's mostly for the networking ability or heaver CPU processing needs. About the only thing that might be an issue for a geocacher is that I understand the mapping programs for PPC are better. Link to comment
+fivegallon Posted March 23, 2004 Author Share Posted March 23, 2004 What's the difference between Palm and PPC? More to the point,which one requires the least third party apps? I'm unsure if i'm needing a Palm,an Ipaq,or some other option. What i'm after is the PDA that will help me to cache,with the least number of steps to get the info onto said PDA Money is no object I will attempt to stay on topic and respond to the thread starters questions. The difference in palm and PPC is the operating system. Palm is its own OS while PPC is basically a scaled down version of Windows. The pocketpc is going to cost you more to start but its going to include a lot of things like word and excel that would cost you extra on the Palm. The PPC is more like a scaled down version of windows and the palm is a simpler operating system which is easier at the cost of features. Typically your going to spend $400 for a decent PPC while a decent Palm is going to be around $200. The palm is generally going to be smaller and have longer battery life while the PPC has a bigger screen which makes them overall bigger and have shorter battery life. As far as caching goes your going to need a map program and something to read GPX files. I love mapopolis on my PPC and as far as I can tell the palm version is similar. The only big complaint I've heard is how you get waypoints into the palm. They show up as contacts in your address book. For reading GPX files I use GPXsonar, its free and very easy. All I need to do is copy the gpx file to the PC I don't have to do any tweaking or converting. I'd bet there is something similar for the palm. So it depends on what else you want to do with your pocket device. Is there a certain program or peice of hardware you want to use? Do you want a bigger screen or a smaller lighter device? Do you want a simpler operating system or one with more features? Off topic alert Jeremy can your palm do this? -Terminal Server Client -HP remote insight board client -HP insight manager -voice over IP phone -microsoft reader -browse network file shares -Pocket RAR (unzip rar or zip) -Virtual display (rotate, scroll, or compress your display) -Play WMV, divx, vidx files (plus almost any video or audio file format out there) -scrabble -arcade and console emulators This is not a list of everything the palm can't do, its a list of what I do on the PPC that I don't think the palm can do. I use my PPC for all these things. Sorry for the slow reply,had a slight geographical relocation for my work...hehehe...closer to Boracay Island now....woohooo Also,thanks for steering the topic back on track To answer your question about what else i want to do with it....basically anything it lets me. What i mean by that is,the primary objective is to use it as a "caching tool", with minimum(or simple) steps to get the cache info onboard. Whatever the unit does outside of caching is simply a bonus. As stated - money is no object Link to comment
+M_M_Minidog Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I know that this is becoming a tired thread, but I just wanted to add one more 2 cents worth, to make mine a full 4.... One of my duties in my career is providing helpdesk support to a company of about 100 people. I have decided to support to the best of my abilities any pda the end user wants. I can honestly say I've had no more than a handful of ppc questions (and they've always centered around how to do a hard reset), where as the palm questions have run the gamut (primarily dealing with syncing issues, but I've been asked quite a few). I really think the biggest difference is, since MS created ppc, the syncing is built into the OS, where as that definately is not the case for palm. If anything, I would make a guess that MS even makes it a bit more difficult for Palm's to sync just to sell their own. I don't want to make it sound like a conspiracy, but maybe colorful marketing techniques???? Link to comment
+-=(GEO)=- Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 M_M_Minidog I really think the biggest difference is, since MS created ppc, the syncing is built into the OS I'm afraid you're grossly mistaken. Synch'ing a PPC with any MSFT OS requires ActiveSync which is NOT built into the OS. Instead, it's a separate free download from the Microsoft Download Center: Mobile Devices On the PPC side of things, the ActiveSync client program is also a separate program shipping along with the OS but is definitely NOT built into it. If anything, I would make a guess that MS even makes it a bit more difficult for Palm's to sync just to sell their own. This is insane! Do you realize what kind of antitrust lawsuits Microsoft would be facing if they did what you suggested? I don't want to make it sound like a conspiracy, but maybe colorful marketing techniques? Not a conspiracy theory? You're certainly planting a seed for it. Instead, you should realize that buggy software is a fact of life and that Palm is not immune to it. Link to comment
+bigeddy Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 M_M_Minidog If anything, I would make a guess that MS even makes it a bit more difficult for Palm's to sync just to sell their own. This is insane! Do you realize what kind of antitrust lawsuits Microsoft would be facing if they did what you suggested? Link to comment
docbob Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 (edited) OK, I'm not specifying which OS is better, and this solution would work for both. This is a COMPLETELY automated solution to get your *.GPX file on your Palm or PPC in a usable format. It's QUITE elaborate, but here's what I do: 1) I request a GPX query, as normal. 2) I have a rule in MS Outlook that automatically detaches the message (Look for this software: EZDetach - www.ezdetach.com) Ezdetach allows you to automatically save an attachment then execute a batch file or program file after the file has been saved. It can also remove the attachment, leaving a link instead, saving you LOTS of space in your *.PST files. 3) I then throw it through GPX Spinner (www.gpxspinner.com). This turns the *.GPX into a complete HTML document set, viewable by any browser. 4) I also use Watcher (www.clayjar.com), this allows you to remove and alter waypoints in your final PDA and your GPS uploads. 5) Run it through iSilo. (www.isilo.com) Converts HTML to a single, compressed, Isilo PDA document. Mobipocket, for me has been terrible, piggy, crashing piece of software. Isilo will work for both PDA & PPC, there are quite a few programs to do the same thing as I understand. You will also need to get the reader for your PDA too. Just try GPX Spinner and open up the document structure with your favorite browser, the indexing works, it's small, and it's quick. Then you'll see that it's worth the effort to figure out iSilo. Everytime I receive a new *.GPX file it's ready on the next hotsync of my PDA. It's got adjusted coordinates, removes the ones I'm not interested in. The best thing about GPX Spinner is that it changes the waypoint names and pictures depending on the type, status of the cache. So just looking at your GPS will help you figure out what kind of cache it is and if it's been found lately. This is completely configurable. I'm working on a how to, but I'm already into hour 4 of the graphic instructions for it. But it's well worth it to try. Bob Edited March 23, 2004 by docbob Link to comment
+JeepCachr Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 OK, I'm not specifying which OS is better, and this solution would work for both. This is a COMPLETELY automated solution to get your *.GPX file on your Palm or PPC in a usable format. It's QUITE elaborate, but here's what I do: You must be describing how to do it with a palm. With a pocket PC its much simpler. All you would need to do is automate copying your gpx attachment to your PPC synch directory and the next time you synched up you would get your new pocket query on the PPC. You don't have to do any converting to run a GPX file on a pocket PC using GPX sonar. If you wanted a mapopolis file of your waypoints then you could follow a similar process to what your outlining to get that automatically on your PPC. Link to comment
docbob Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 OK, I'm not specifying which OS is better, and this solution would work for both. This is a COMPLETELY automated solution to get your *.GPX file on your Palm or PPC in a usable format. It's QUITE elaborate, but here's what I do: You must be describing how to do it with a palm. With a pocket PC its much simpler. All you would need to do is automate copying your gpx attachment to your PPC synch directory and the next time you synched up you would get your new pocket query on the PPC. You don't have to do any converting to run a GPX file on a pocket PC using GPX sonar. If you wanted a mapopolis file of your waypoints then you could follow a similar process to what your outlining to get that automatically on your PPC. You must be describing how to do it with a palm. Actually iSilo works for the following: Palm OS®, Pocket PC, Windows®, Windows® CE Handheld PC, and Windows Mobile? Smartphone You can use it for other things too, like hockey pools and the like, too! Grab your favorite web page. It's not just for Geocaching. (Mind you these days there hasn't been time for much else) I'm sure that GPX sonar is a great product. One of the nicest features of this system is you can MODIFY a waypoint. (Say you solve the clue) Everytime the output is made, it will update the waypoints not only for your Handheld but on the *.GPX output file to be uploaded to your GPS. What you describe (using GPX Sonar) would appear to have it go through unaltered. I also failed to mention that the output file shrinks from 1.5 MB (*.gpx) to 517KB. (iSilo) Nice if you've got a HUGE file (or several) and a small memory device. I get 250 "unfound" waypoints in my area in my primary query. You can also remove caches (temporarily or permanently) with specific criteria or just remove that one annoying cache that you KNOW you'll never get to. For example if you know that you're only going to go Geocaching South today for 20 miles. Or if you're like me, you live near the ocean and there's an island that you go to seldomly, you can remove those until you're ready to go on your trip. Save waypoints in your GPS. Just my two bits. Bob Link to comment
+M_M_Minidog Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 M_M_Minidog I really think the biggest difference is, since MS created ppc, the syncing is built into the OS I'm afraid you're grossly mistaken. Synch'ing a PPC with any MSFT OS requires ActiveSync which is NOT built into the OS. Instead, it's a separate free download from the Microsoft Download Center: Mobile Devices On the PPC side of things, the ActiveSync client program is also a separate program shipping along with the OS but is definitely NOT built into it. If anything, I would make a guess that MS even makes it a bit more difficult for Palm's to sync just to sell their own. This is insane! Do you realize what kind of antitrust lawsuits Microsoft would be facing if they did what you suggested? I don't want to make it sound like a conspiracy, but maybe colorful marketing techniques? Not a conspiracy theory? You're certainly planting a seed for it. Instead, you should realize that buggy software is a fact of life and that Palm is not immune to it. I'm all but positive that active sync installs by default on a new WinXP installation. Granted it's an old version and everyone should update it with the link you gave, but it's there. And as for lawsuits? As long as MS has an open door for other devices and software, it's not monopolistic. They just don't have to make it easy. There's nothing at all wrong with that in my book, but it is being done. Link to comment
+JeepCachr Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Actually iSilo works for the following: Palm OS®, Pocket PC, Windows®, Windows® CE Handheld PC, and Windows Mobile? Smartphone You can use it for other things too, like hockey pools and the like, too! Grab your favorite web page. It's not just for Geocaching. (Mind you these days there hasn't been time for much else) I'm sure that GPX sonar is a great product. One of the nicest features of this system is you can MODIFY a waypoint. (Say you solve the clue) Everytime the output is made, it will update the waypoints not only for your Handheld but on the *.GPX output file to be uploaded to your GPS. What you describe (using GPX Sonar) would appear to have it go through unaltered. I also failed to mention that the output file shrinks from 1.5 MB (*.gpx) to 517KB. (iSilo) Nice if you've got a HUGE file (or several) and a small memory device. I get 250 "unfound" waypoints in my area in my primary query. You can also remove caches (temporarily or permanently) with specific criteria or just remove that one annoying cache that you KNOW you'll never get to. For example if you know that you're only going to go Geocaching South today for 20 miles. Or if you're like me, you live near the ocean and there's an island that you go to seldomly, you can remove those until you're ready to go on your trip. Save waypoints in your GPS. Just my two bits. Bob I don't doubt Isilo works its just not necessary on the PPC for GPX files. You were talking about a way to automate everything easily. I was just pointing out that for PPC users it doesn't have to be so complicated. I think you were scaring people. If you choose to you can modify your gpx files on your pc before sending them to your pocket device. I like to use GSAK for this. Then your not talking about a fully automated process anymore. GSAK also shrinks the GPX file and has the filtering features you mentioned. There are numerous ways to skin this cat. I'm glad your taking the time to share and document yours. Cache on! Link to comment
+UncleRMC Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I use one of these Nexicams with my ipaq. The images are not as good as my stand-alone digital camera, but fine for images intended for the web. Can a Palm be used to take digital images? Link to comment
+JeremyA Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Can a Palm be used to take digital images? Yes - in fact many models come with a built in camera. Jeremy Link to comment
+NightPilot Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Most models of Palms can be used with an attached camera, and several have built-in camera. My Zire 71 has a camera, and I use it for quick snapshots. It's certainly not as good as my Olympus, but it's good enough for most purposes, and I don't have to carry a separate camera with me. I always have my Palm in my pocket, thus I always have a camera. Link to comment
+-=(GEO)=- Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 M_M_Minidog... I'm all but positive that active sync installs by default on a new WinXP installation. Granted it's an old version and everyone should update it with the link you gave, but it's there. Ok, I hope that you will finally see the light after you read this: HOW TO: Use Silent Mode Setup to Deploy ActiveSync I'll even include the summary to make it easy for you: SUMMARY "You can use Microsoft ActiveSync to synchronize data between your desktop computer and your mobile device (either your laptop or your Microsoft Pocket PC device). If you are a system administrator, you can use the Silent Mode Setup feature to rapidly deploy ActiveSync across a large organization. This step-by-step article describes how to use ActiveSync Silent Mode Setup to install ActiveSync." Now, why would the system administrator have to do all that if ActiveSync were already on the target systems? Hummm? I'll spell it out for you: on any given SKU of Windows (non-OEM versions, i.e: not DELL, not Gateway, or other custom images...), ActiveSync IS NOT PRESENT! And as for lawsuits? As long as MS has an open door for other devices and software, it's not monopolistic. They just don't have to make it easy. There's nothing at all wrong with that in my book, but it is being done. Whatever. You believe what you want to believe... I think that horse is dead now. Link to comment
+Learned Gerbil Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 As for cameras, Kodak made one you could plug into Palms about five years back. Link to comment
+JeepCachr Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 GEO don't be petty. Maybe minidog was wrong, active synch might not installed by default. It may have come pre-installed on his PC. Perhaps he works for a company that has a IT department that installs it using silent mode. Active Synch is however much more integrated with the OS than the palm synch software. Because of this integration it is easier to synch PPC devices and more things can be done through this connection. Link to comment
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