When You Remove A Dangerous Item

1.3k · March 9, 2004

When you remove a dangerous item do you trade up?

I can understamd removing that knife because you don't think it's appropriate but when you do, do you trade up for it? What's a good trade for a bunch of old fireworks that you're going to dispose of?

March 9, 2004

Anything you trade for old fireworks would be a trade up. Maybe an unbroken McDonalds Toy.

March 9, 2004

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if you take a banned item out of a cache you should not have to trade for it. In this situation you are just "fixing" the cache. On the other hand I usually will leave a few items to improve the cache so that I can claim to be a good citizen. If you are taking an item that is not banned but that you think is a "bad" item then I think you need to trade fairly (is that a word?) for it.

4.7k · March 9, 2004

yeah, i have to agree with cannon law. if a cache has good content, i just remove the illegal item(s) and do not trade for them. if the cache content is weak (often the case) i leave some small clean trinkets.

3.1k · March 9, 2004

I think removing things YOU perceive to be dangerous could lead to some abuses.

You take something, put something else less dangerous back in.

I removed a 30.06 round from a cache recently. Replaced it with a knife.

J/K

March 9, 2004

I've removed little multi-tools that contain a small knife, but always trade up.

March 9, 2004

If you remove a dangerous item and trade up, aren't you indicating your de facto approval the dangerous item being an appropriate trade item?

March 9, 2004

I am against knives in caches for two very simple reasons, many people cache with their children, and it's against the rules.

What shouldn't be in a cache?

Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, ammo, knives, drugs, and alcohol shouldn't be placed in a cache. Respect the local laws. All ages of people hide and seek caches, so use some thought before placing an item into a cache.

Food items are ALWAYS a BAD IDEA. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because of food items in a cache. Please do not put food in a cache.

Quote taken directly from Geocaching.com FAQ's.

I think we've got enough problems with people's misconception of the sport that we don't have to add to it by placing weapons in caches.

But when it comes to removing items already in the cache, I mean c'mon, if it's a kewl knife and you know you're gonna keep it, then by all means, TRADE UP!!

Just my opinion.

Edited March 9, 2004 by Team HomestarRunner

March 9, 2004

If you remove a dangerous item and trade up, aren't you indicating your de facto approval the dangerous item being an appropriate trade item?

I try to phrase things in a way to avoid insulting the inexperienced person who left the contraband (though I don't know if I always succeed), but make it clear I was getting something out of the cache that doesn't belong there.

Ron/yumitori

4.7k · March 9, 2004

if i take something banned that's of worth (e.g., knife) i trade for it. if i take out something worthless or of dubious worth (e.g., old, half-eaten cookie, damp worn-out hockey schedule) i do not leave anythign in return for it.

if the cache content is poor i may leave something anyway, but just to assist the cache. to my way of thinking, it's a gift rather than a trade.

March 9, 2004

How about this:

You take the banned item and another item. Then you do a major trade-up for the non-banned item. When you log your find you put down that you took one item, left three items, and "oh, by the way, I also took this thing that shouldn't have been there."

That way you are not trading for the banned item, but you are also not depleting the cache. Whoever left the banned item would have traded it for something.

RichardMoore

4.7k · March 9, 2004

that usually ends up being the way it works out. i rarely ever remove used kleenex from a cache that has a good inventory. if the cache appears to be stable but poorly stocked, i leve the good stuff. if it appears to be a plunder magnet, i don't.

7.2k · March 9, 2004

Always trade up. <---Note period.

March 9, 2004

I am against knives in caches for two very simple reasons, many people cache with their children, and it's against the rules.
If people cache with their children why would it be dangerous? agreed it is against the rules but with a adult there the only question is have you no control over your kids? I have carried a pocket knife since I was about seven,was taught how to use it correctly,and and do not consider it a weapon,it is a tool,much like a hammer or screwdriver.If you take an item trade even or up!

March 10, 2004

I just try to use common sense. If I find something in a cache that I don't think should be there I trade it out and try to trade up. But if I found a $20 switchblade in a cache next to a kids playground, and all I had with me was a couple of 50 cent trade items I would still trade it out.

March 10, 2004

So, if you find narcotics, do you trade up based on street value or wholesale value? :rolleyes:

Edited March 10, 2004 by utahrc

38.2k · March 10, 2004

I think we've got enough problems with people's misconception of the sport that we don't have to add to it by placing weapons in caches.

You are apparently under the misconception that a pocket knife is a weapon. It is not a weapon, its a tool. Every state recognizes that fact, which I why I can't be arrested for walking through a park with my Swiss Army knife, but can be if I was carrying a switchblade.

1.3k · March 10, 2004

If you remove a dangerous item and trade up, aren't you indicating your de facto approval the dangerous item being an appropriate trade item?

No. What I leave in a cache is often a combination of three things:

1) How much I like the cache. ("took nothing, left virgin travel bugs")

2) The item I traded. ("took x, left cabriner radio/compass/flashlight")

3) The current contents of the cache. ("left x,x,x, and x")

It also strikes me that if someone left a multi-tool in the cache, they probably thought they were trading up. Just removing it or leaving a McToy in it's place doesn't strike me as being fair to the cache.

4.1k · March 10, 2004

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if you take a banned item out of a cache you should not have to trade for it. In this situation you are just "fixing" the cache. On the other hand I usually will leave a few items to improve the cache so that I can claim to be a good citizen. If you are taking an item that is not banned but that you think is a "bad" item then I think you need to trade fairly (is that a word?) for it.

Right On!

Let's penalize the cache owner because someone placed something we think is contraband, into their cache. The owner should have known someone would put some contraband into their cache! :rolleyes:

If we deplete enough caches there will not be any reason to go caching.

Sportsmanship and courtesy would suggest that if you take something from a cache, that you put something back. Don't the "rules" says take something and leave something?

We need MORE rules.

John

24.7k · March 10, 2004

Bottle Rockets are cool. Good swag any way you slice it.

March 10, 2004

lol...well heres my 2 cents again.if you take anything from a cache that you feel is unsafe(swiss army knife or multi-tool)please trade up or even.if your removing ammo or needles or drugs then by all means take trhem with you even if you dont trade.

again i am on of those people who likes to follow the rules.just like the bible to me..lol some of the rules i dont understand but do not question and accept that there not in place to (hold me back or cramp my style) but to please land managers or for safety reasons.hey everyone knows mcdonalds serves hot coffee but someone made a mint on them over it anyway right?

i seen locally here just this week a well known cacher in the area set out several new caches and the first finder took a knife from them right off.so the facts around this area is if you do put a knife in a cache its not going to last long if its any good at all so i wouldnt stay home worried about finding knifes in caches but it sure does look bad to the local land managers seeing that in the log tho i bet.wonder how long we will have our parks left to cache in?????is that knife really worth the risk????

24.7k · March 10, 2004

I've had more paper cuts than kife cuts. Risk is relative.

2.7k · March 10, 2004

Took pocket knive and left a machete.

24.7k · March 10, 2004

Took pocket knive and left a machete.

Now that's trading up!

March 10, 2004

When this has been discussed before regarding literature some folks objected to, the concensus was that you should trade what you think the item you are removing is worth.

So take the offending stuff, leave something worthwhile in its place.

20.7k · March 11, 2004

First, let's leave the arguments about whether knives should be in caches to the other thread.

Next, if you hike in to a cache with no trade items, intending to TNLN, do you remove the disallowed items, or leave them in the cache?

If your answer is leave them, in violation of the guidelines, you will argue that you must trade up.

If your answer is remove them, you will argue no trade required.

I say remove them. This is no different than replacing a baggie or pen in a cache. You are doing the owner a favor by helping with his maintenance. If the cache becomes depleted, and you can't add items (because you didn't bring any), you should note it in the log so the cache owner is aware of the issue.

March 11, 2004

So, if you find narcotics, do you trade up based on street value or wholesale value?

I think that would depend on whether you will be keeping them for personal use or reselling them :lol:

March 11, 2004

Recently I removed a box cutter from a cache. I never said anything about it nor did I mention it in my log. The original contents of the cache never listed it nor could I find a log entry where someone dropped it off. I just removed it and left nothing. Is that stealing? Did I not follow the rules by leaving anything? Why a box cutter? Can't we think of more fun and creative things to leave in a cache? BTW, I didn't see any boxes that needed cutting near the cache.

March 11, 2004

I recently came across a cache that was almost entirely pocket knives. Probably 8-10 of them, all brand new. It wasn't somewhere that kids could get to on their own and it didn't strike me as particularly dangerous, but I thought it was interesting given all the recent talk about knives here.

Edited March 11, 2004 by utahrc

20.7k · March 11, 2004

I recently came across a cache that was almost entirely pocket knives. ...

Don't you think that cache should be reported, since it doesn't meat the guidelines?

March 12, 2004

I found a cache just yesterday with a knife in it. I was pleasantly surprised, and I left it there for someone who might need it. I know some of you think it is an awful thing to have in a cache, but I grew up with a knife in my pocket and I've owned a rifle since the age of 6, and I have never misused either. We cannot keep "protecting" our children from perceived evils, but rather, teach them to use TOOLS properly and with respect. Off my soapbox for now, but this (newbie) geocacher likes the idea of a knife in a cache.

March 12, 2004

I found a cache just yesterday with a knife in it. I was pleasantly surprised, and I left it there for someone who might need it. I know some of you think it is an awful thing to have in a cache, but I grew up with a knife in my pocket and I've owned a rifle since the age of 6, and I have never misused either. We cannot keep "protecting" our children from perceived evils, but rather, teach them to use TOOLS properly and with respect. Off my soapbox for now, but this (newbie) geocacher likes the idea of a knife in a cache.

I suggest you read the threads about why geocaching.com asks that items like knives not be placed in caches. It has less to do with a misguided attempt to protect children than one to protect geocaching from overly concerned land managers.

If you find a way to change the attitudes of all those folks who can ban geocaching in their local areas, the website's administrators might reconsider their stance. In the meanwhile, protecting our sports seems prudent.

March 12, 2004

When is it not OK?

A machete? That might be considered dangerous.

A 6" switch blade? That might be considered dangerous.

A 1 1/2" blade on a small multi-tool? That might be considered dangerous.

The rules say "No knives". I guess we have to live with that. But I have sharper knives in my kitchen drawer. Not to mention Axes, draw blades and a chain saw in my garage. So do you. Do you hide these from your children or teach them to respect them?

March 12, 2004

I recently came across a cache that was almost entirely pocket knives. ...

Don't you think that cache should be reported, since it doesn't meat the guidelines?

I didn't say which cache it was, or even if I had logged it, but I see the one you linked does show a couple of knife trades after my visit. In any case, I don't object to pocket knives and I don't feel a responsibility to report caches that violate that rule. A lot depends on where the cache is located. For where this cache was found I don't think it was such a big deal. If I had a real concern, I'd probably point it out to the cache owner rather than to GC.com.

3.8k · March 12, 2004

Recently I removed a box cutter from a cache. I never said anything about it nor did I mention it in my log. The original contents of the cache never listed it nor could I find a log entry where someone dropped it off. I just removed it and left nothing. Is that stealing? Did I not follow the rules by leaving anything? Why a box cutter? Can't we think of more fun and creative things to leave in a cache? BTW, I didn't see any boxes that needed cutting near the cache.

Ya done fine by me.

2.3k · March 12, 2004

I have not come across alot of "dangerous" items, but I have removed alot of things from cache that should not have been put there due to a lack of common sense...

Candles (scented candles too) - in Florida... hello?? hot all the time... wax melts... scented candles attract wildlife...

Food - really what were they thinking!

Bubbles - ok, this is not as intuitive but as that fluid heats up in the Florida weather, it expands and usually ruptures or cracks its container and leaks all over the contents of the cache...

When I come across these, I simply remove them, sometimes I replace them with something else, sometimes not...

20.7k · March 12, 2004

... In any case, I don't object to pocket knives and I don't feel a responsibility to report caches that violate that rule. ...

As an end user, it is not our right to decide to blatently ignore the guidelines. The cache in question clearly violates them and should be archived.

March 12, 2004

Unless the item truly is "trash" (used tissues, rusty nails, bent bottle caps) we will at least leave some trade in return.

Just recently we took a quite nice candle out of a cache and traded our signature item and a flashlight for it. The candle was in a glass jar with a lid but with the heat of the summer almost upon us decided that the smell of roasted chestnuts would probably just get stronger thus inticing the local wild life to the area. (plus we didn't want anyone to be able to sniff out the cache, especially since we didn't want to give anyone an advantage to a cache that had once skunked us!. )

Oh, and when removing "trash" we generally don't mention that in the log either.

Just how we play the game...

March 12, 2004

... In any case, I don't object to pocket knives and I don't feel a responsibility to report caches that violate that rule. ...

As an end user, it is not our right to decide to blatently ignore the guidelines. The cache in question clearly violates them and should be archived.

The guidelines say not to place knives in caches. I didn't do so. There is no rule that geocachers must report violations of the cache rules, nor could such a rule be enforced. I also can't currently say what the contents of any given cache is. The "knife cache" has had several visitors since I was there and may no longer contain knives.

I'm not "blatantly ignoring" anything, I'm just choosing to not be known as the local geocache cop. If I come across something that I feel to be dangerous, I'll remove it. If I come across something that just violates a guideline, I'll probably look the other way. I just barely started this hobby and it seems a bad time to make enemies of the locals. Perhaps after I've got a hundred finds under my belt, attended a couple events, and placed a few caches I'll be more willing to go out on a limb.

If you're that concerned about the contents of my local caches, you can put together a query pretty easily to find where they are, then scan the logs for trades involving inappropriate objects and send archive requests to the admins yourself.

1.3k · March 12, 2004

... In any case, I don't object to pocket knives and I don't feel a responsibility to report caches that violate that rule. ...

As an end user, it is not our right to decide to blatently ignore the guidelines.

As a paying customer, it's my right to ignore anything. And as the listing service it's their right not to list things they choose not to list.

I'm under no obligation to log finds, log DNFs, report violations, or anything else. And they're under no obligation to list a cache I place.

If I have a problem with a local cache, it's a local problem, and we have local groups and local people I can talk to. If I have a problem with an inaccuate listing, then that's a problem that involves Groundspeak. Groundspeak may do things to make things smoother for dealing with land managers, but last I checked, our local cachers are the people actually talking with them and we do not represent Groundspeak in any way.

March 12, 2004

is the sky falling yet? so many concerns about such unimportant things....i'm going to find one of those box of knives caches.

March 13, 2004

... In any case, I don't object to pocket knives and I don't feel a responsibility to report caches that violate that rule. ...

As an end user, it is not our right to decide to blatently ignore the guidelines. The cache in question clearly violates them and should be archived.

That is the bigest line of bull**** I have ever heard.Lets penalize the cache owner , besides as you said [i]guidelines[/i]are just that guide lines

20.7k · March 15, 2004

This 'not-my-responsibility' attitude is why park officials prohibit geocaching. As participants in this hobby, it IS our responsibility to self-police. Whether that is done locally, or through GC.com, it should be done.

March 15, 2004

Please. I do self-police. I just don't let GC.com decide for me what is appropriate in MY neighborhood.

3.8k · March 15, 2004

Please. I do self-police. I just don't let GC.com decide for me what is appropriate in MY neighborhood.

As "the official spokesperson" for geocaching itself, gc.com kind of NEEDS to set the guidelines globally in order to allow the game to continue. It may not be ideal for every area, but it needs to be done. The rules aren't there to ruin the game, they're there to allow it to continue into the future.

There are some of us who work hard with park authorities and these sorts of rules are what give them the confidence to allow caches within their boundaries.

March 15, 2004

As "the official spokesperson" for geocaching itself, gc.com kind of NEEDS to set the guidelines globally in order to allow the game to continue.

I don't disagree. I do feel that as guidelines, there is room for common sense and local interpretation to dictate exceptions.

7.2k · March 15, 2004

As "the official spokesperson" for geocaching itself, gc.com kind of NEEDS to set the guidelines globally in order to allow the game to continue.

I disagree.

First, it is a conflict of interest to set ones self up as a governing authority bent on controlling the whole game AND a commercial entity. It doesn't work in the long run and is on the verge of biting themselves in the butt because it.

Second, setting one's self up as a GLOBAL authority and setting rules to fit the least common denominator, again, sets ones self up for failure. Mores, customs, and decorums are different throughout the world. What can and is shown daily on public TV in Europe makes the Super Bowl thing look like a joke is but one example. Look up "Page 3 girl" and see what is in the daily papers in the UK. Yet, it is unacceptible here.

One set of rules for everyone doesn't work.

24.7k · March 15, 2004

...As "the official spokesperson" for geocaching itself, gc.com kind of NEEDS to set the guidelines globally in order to allow the game to continue. ..

This is true until there is are local groups to do the job locally and national groups to do it nationally.

If GC.com didn't try to do the job that nobody else has managed to do yet (and there are people trying to get things moving that direction) then geocaching in general would be worse off.

For now and the forseable future GC.com is the only entity in a position to do the job in most areas.

3.1k · March 15, 2004

I'm hoping I will come across a really dangerous looking 100 dollar bill.

1.3k · March 15, 2004

gc.com kind of NEEDS to set the guidelines globally in order to allow the game to continue.

As a listing service, gc.com can only dictate the conditions under which they will list a cache. They cannot control what actually goes into a container, especially since that same container may be listed under other listing services such as navicache.com and letterboxing.org

Choosing not to list a cache that they don't consider appropriate for people of all ages is part of their business. However that is a far cry from making a rule about knives in caches. That sort of ruling should be up to local or national caching organizations, not companies. When I am an employee of Groundspeak, they can set the rules on how, as an employee, I represent them. While I am a customer of Groundspeak, they may not set the rules on how I, as a cacher, choose to cache. I am simply a subscriber to their listing service.

If Groundspeak wishes to stop being a listing service and chooses to become a not-for-profit organization then they can start assuming the roles and responsibilty consistant with that form of an organization. Until then, I will continue to treat them as a listing service.

Edited March 15, 2004 by bons

When You Remove A Dangerous Item

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