Permission To Hide Cache

[+Prairie Dog]

I want to hide my first cache in a nearby city park. There are no caches in this park yet. Do I need to obtain permission from the park management before placing a cache there? If so what's the best way to explain geocaching and ask permission? This park is open to the public during daylight hours. Feedback appreciated.

[+Criminal]

I want to hide my first cache in a nearby city park. There are no caches in this park yet. Do I need to obtain permission from the park management before placing a cache there? If so what's the best way to explain geocaching and ask permission? This park is open to the public during daylight hours. Feedback appreciated.

No, if you are not aware of any rule and nothing is posted forbidding it, just go ahead and hide.

 

If they have a problem with it, they will tell you. They love to tell you stuff.

 

In the meantime, do a search using the word "permission" and read the many threads devoted to the subject.

[+welch]

I would suggest contacting other local cachers (especially those with caches in other area managed by the same person if possiable), and ask what if any the rules are for that park. They may be able to give you an overview of the area. The nearest gc.com approver might also have useful info.

 

Edited to add: A link to this nice site. It lists policy info. of several places.

And as Criminal suggests, use the forum search feature. It should come up with several related threads. Including some about the 'best' ways to get explain geocaching.

Edited March 5, 2004 by welch

[+briansnat]

At the entrance to the park there should be a list of rules posted. Look for one that says "No Geocaching" , or "Geocaching by Permit Only". If you don't see either, go ahead and place your cache.

[+yumitori]

Some folks would rather ask forgiveness than permission.

 

Some would rather be safe than sorry.

 

Some even like to call land managers moronic if they make too many rules (as defined by the person calling names). In my opinion, this approach is unlikely to change managers minds, whether or not they are actually morons.

 

I like the suggestion to check with the locals first. Not every well-known regulation is posted at the gate.

[+flask]

i've gone on some hunches; for caches that i figure are likely to be found accidentally by park staff doing maintenance, i am likely to secure permission first. any park in which the maintenance inclues raking or weedwhacking is prone to this.

 

any public use are near a sensitive habitat also ranks for me.

 

and it is a good idea to check with the local cachers. somebody who has a cache in a park may know. on the other hand, i have a cache in a park that has permission from the parks department. i have one in the same park that does not have express permission but adheres to the parks department's guidelines. there is one that almost meets the guidelinges, and one that goes against them. as far as i know i am the only one who has spoken with the park management. at least that's what the park management says.

 

one of those caches will bother the park management a lot if they find it. and the park management has a lot to say about a LOT of parks in our area. it's a good idea to be on the good side of the park management.

 

sometimes

[+RPW]

one of those caches will bother the park management a lot if they find it.

 

Going off the topic just a bit here.

 

What should a geocacher do when he/she knows that there is a bad cache out there that will just cause problems if (or more likely when) it is found by the land managers?

 

Trying to contact the cache owner is always a good first option but, as we know, not all cache owners are responsive. So, what should be the next step? Request an archive? Physically remove the cache (a desperate measure, I know, but it is possible that the "bad cache" could ruin caching for everyone)? Contact the land managers and explain that it is not everyone's fault that there is a cache in a poor location and so please do not punish everyone for a single person's stupidity? Just MYOB (for the non-Americans: mind your own business; i.e, ignore the problem)?

 

Not trying to be inflamatory here -- and feel free to Markwell! -- but I think this is a question that a lot of people could use advice on. I certainly could.

[+Criminal]

Why is it always assumed that if the parks department finds out there's a geocache in the park that they're going to run round screaming and throwing their chairs about?

 

Most likely response, "huh!"

[+welch]

Why is it always assumed that if the parks department finds out there's a geocache in the park that they're going to run round screaming and throwing their chairs about?

 

Most likely response, "huh!"

Run around throwing chairs, toss it out with someones left over picnic trash, send you a message saying "im sorry but park is not a storage area, please remove your stuff", it all ends with there being a few less caches

[+briansnat]

Why is it always assumed that if the parks department finds out there's a geocache in the park that they're going to run round screaming and throwing their chairs about?

 

Most likely response, "huh!"

 

This is what happened when park rangers found a cache placed without "permission" in a state park not far from my house.

I have placed 60+ caches, all without obtaining permission...because none was required. Here are some of the experiences I've had. One placed in a county park had a log from the park's naturalist. It said "checking on the cache, all is well". He apparently got the coords from this website, because it is not a cache that would be found accidently.

 

I also have a series of caches in a nature preserve, which has its own security force. As some geocachers entered the property, they've been surrounded by armed guards asking quesions. As soon as they see the GPS, things loosen up and they say something like, "Oh, going for one of the geocaches. We were worried that you were a poacher. Have a good day".

 

Many of my caches have logs from park employees who obviously found out about the caches, checked them out....and left them.

 

Would things have been different had I asked permission through official channels? Undoubtedly. In many cases I bet the answer would have been "no", or they'd still have been mulling over an offical policy 2 years later. Once you demand official sanction for your activities things change. Its one thing for a ranger to stop by a cache to check on its impact. Its another thing to demand that his boss's boss put his stamp of approval on the sport.

 

As Criminal said, go ahead and place it. If they find out about it and don't like it, they will certainly let you know.

Edited March 6, 2004 by briansnat

[+TruckerGeorge]

I jsut stopped by city hall today to obtain permission to place caches at the local lake. it has to go through the council meeting. but with all the information that I gave them on caching the two 60ish ladies there were wanting to go out caching.

 

I also left them information on CITO as well. it seems that these ladies are part of the city council and that I made a good impression on them to obtain permission to place caches at the lake..

 

TruckerGeorge

[+RPW]

To Criminal et. al., I am not trying to bring up that old hoary subject of "obtain permission or not." I agree with your position (obviously paraphrased here) that this is a free country with public lands and thus we do not need permission to use our lands and, in fact, because of the nature of land managers we risk getting entrapped in a bunch of red tape if we do ask for permssion. Likewise I can also agree with the other point of view that obtaining permission first can avoid future problems. No, that argument is old, old, old and will never go away.

 

Rather, continuing on my slightly off-topic post of "what should a geocacher do if they know the land manager will not like a previously placed cache" ... perhaps there was a post-facto decree banning caches or perhaps it is obvious that the cache is in ecologically sensitive area, etc ... then what should a geocacher do? Contacting the original owner is a good first step but if that does not work then what? Ignore the cache? Ask that it be archived? "Muggle" the cache?

 

I have only had to face the above sitution once and since I did a DNF on the cache it was moot point ... or perhaps not since other people found it after me and thus I have done the default "monkey see no evil" ignoring of the problem.

 

What would the rest of you do in such a sitution? Criminal (not to pick on you but you do have a lot of good opinions), I know that you obey the rules when posted and when you think they are fair ... what do you do if you find a cache in obvious violation of land manager rules?

[+Fritz_Monroe]

Personally, I would contact the cache owner. If the cache in question is obviously something that WILL cause a lot of problems down the line, I might contact the local approver, but probably not. I feel that it's the hider's responsibility to make sure that it's not in an area that's likely to cause problems.

 

My thinking is that the ranger, land manager, etc, will eventually hear about geocaching and might just be interested enough to see if there are any caches in their park. If it's a problem area, that land manager could push it up the line to get geocaching completely banned from that park.

 

F_M

[+robert]

You might want to contact your local organization if you have one, though it doesn't appear that you do.

 

Here in Maryland, we have a list of parks and contact info for placing caches in those locations. We stay active in trying to keep up with that list to avoid any problems and have worked hard with these people to keep a positive light shed on geocaching in Maryland.

[+RPW]

From Fritz Monroe Personally, I would contact the cache owner ... I feel that it's the hider's responsibility ...

 

Yes, that is a given. But often enough the owners do not respond. The cache then falls to the collective responsibility of the caching community.

 

From mrkablooey You might want to contact your local organization if you have one, though it doesn't appear that you do.

 

We do have a statewide one -- ingeo (Indiana) -- but it does seem to be as organized as organizations in other places.

 

However this just pops the question up the ladder. What should the organization do with errant caches?

 

Please markwell me if applicable or, if there are organizations with guidelines on what they do with errant caches, then a link would be appreciated.

[+hatchet hutch]

Hello, Prairie Dog 76 Hatchet Hutch here! I find myself in much the same problem as you. Where I live there is a vast pice of land that is controled by U. S. F. W. S.,(united States Fish and Wildlfie Service), and if you dont know, this agancy says their land is forbiden property. Looking at it, it is just another pice of desert mountain. However, this pice has been in their jurisdiction for over 70 years. So long, that people don't know that they run the place. There are at least nine,(9) traditional caches located upon their land. OK! do I just let it pass? Bring it to the attention of Groundspeak? What? How about archiving the nine until we get the thing stright? This area starts at the city limits and runs for ninty miles. One of only a few directions pople can go from the city without running into restricted space. (you can go there just not leave a cache). I just don't want to see us,(geocachers) get a bad name for not following the rulls. Hatchet Hutch

[+briansnat]

OK! do I just let it pass? Bring it to the attention of Groundspeak? What? How about archiving the nine until we get the thing stright? This area starts at the city limits and runs for ninty miles.

 

Many cache owners not be aware of the policy change, so you might send a friendly warning to the owners advising them of the new policy. Then its up to them if they want to leave it and chance prosecution (which has been threatened by the USF&WS). But beyond that, MYOB.

Edited March 11, 2004 by briansnat

[+sbell111]

Obviously, you're first contact should be a kind email to the cache owner(s). Of course, this is more likely to make you an enemy than to solve any issue with the caches. Next, it probably wouldn't hurt to explain the situation (completely and including waypoints) to your local approver.

 

Beyond that, I wouldn't get involved.

[+flask]

ok--- how about these scenarios?

 

a land manager who hosts a cache which i will not name know of another cache that's on land where the management expressly does not want caches. she has contacted the cache owner, who said the cache would be removed "over (his) dead body".

 

i know of two caches that are in natural areas where we KNOW the policy of the management is that they don't want caches. we have discussed it in our mailing list, but still they're there.

 

what, if anything, should be done?

[+Renegade Knight]

ok--- how about these scenarios?

 

a land manager who hosts a cache which i will not name know of another cache that's on land where the management expressly does not want caches. she has contacted the cache owner, who said the cache would be removed "over (his) dead body".

 

i know of two caches that are in natural areas where we KNOW the policy of the management is that they don't want caches. we have discussed it in our mailing list, but still they're there.

 

what, if anything, should be done?

In your case if your local organization has an agreement to deal with problem caches (trails, contents not allowed, sensitive area etc.) then your local organization should just go pull the cache that the owner won't pull themselves and make it available for them.

 

If there is no agreement with a local group, only the park really has the authority to pull the cache. The listing site may have verbage in the terms of use that lets a local pull it on their behalf but I'm not sure if GC.com does.

[Keystone]

A land manager with a complaint about a cache placed on their property without permission needs only to contact Geocaching.com. The issue will be dealt with by Groundspeak or by referring it to the volunteer reviewer who's responsible for the area where the cache is placed.

 

Here is what the Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines have to say about permission complaints:

 

If the Geocaching.com web site is contacted and informed that your cache has been placed inappropriately, your cache will be archived or disabled and you will be contacted with any information provided by the individual or organization who contacted us.

 

We deal with these inquiries all the time. My most recent problem is being handled this week with a park district that's upset about five caches having been placed in their parks without permission. I've taken a demand to remove the caches and turned it into a positive project to work on establishing a permit policy. That is the back-end consequence of not asking permission, in some cases. It is a lot of work.