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ringbone

Rules Rules Rules

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:lol: After having been away From Geocaching for almost a year I was surprised to come back and see that my club (geocaching) has changed for the worse and has started to become exclusive from some members. It seems that when you become a for profit enterprise new rules are slammed on the members and exclusivisity becomes the standard. After having been out of the country for awhile I come back to find that:

 

1. No posting of one time caches

2. No posting without a logbook

3. Cant post a cache within .10 miles from another cache

4. Cant post a vacation cache

 

what has happened to Geocaching????

 

I have posted many one time caches in the past and these are what are contained in my caches (and you can look for yourself as they have been archived)

 

8 gold coins, numerous silver coins, old paper money (a 1930's $2.00 bill) silver jewelry from my travels in south america etc etc.

 

While on vacation in mexico and jamaica I hid two .999 silver coins a Mexican one Onza (ounce) coin in Mexico and a one ounce silver Murcury dime replica in Jamaica only to have my Geocache rejected on the above stated grounds.

 

Why the rule change? I am a person with expendable income and I enjoy leaving treasure for those to find. My caches require no digging, trogging and are eco friendly. I think there should be a special designation for people like myself who enjoy watching the hunt for real treasure? Why exclude me now? Would you like to hunt for a 1904 solid gold 5 Ruble Russian coin. Ask the person who found it.

 

Check out my Archived caches:

 

Treasure

Saint Croix Treasure

Helvetia

and in the members section:

Czar

Czar II

Euro cache

 

My name is ringbone

 

thanks for reading

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If you have expendable income, just send it my way. I will be more than happy to take it off your hands. No rules here! LOL :lol:

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I hear what you are saying, ringbone. I agree with you 100% about rules.

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We haven't been around that long to really be affected by the changes that you mentioned but just wanted to give you a 'heads up' on the placing of one-time caches...

There seems to be a way to get around it if you always leave it as the same name? Or maybe this cache was grandfathered but in any case check out

this cache.

Would love to have a shot at going after it, well received by all and seems like what you are talking about.

 

I personally would love the challange (and possible reward :lol:) of going after any cache like this and obvisouly many cachers still feel the same way. Read some of the logs on the page and you'll see what I mean.

 

Good Luck!

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Welcome back. Be happy that those are the only rules, many many more have been suggested, recommended, and demanded. :lol:

 

Read this thread for more on X-caches. :lol:

 

As for the extra income, see this thread for a solution. :lol:

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1. No posting of one time caches

2. No posting without a logbook

3. Cant post a cache within .10 miles from another cache

4. Cant post a vacation cache

 

what has happened to Geocaching????

 

 

In a word (okay, two), Problem Hides.

 

All of those guidelines as well as others have been put into place due to people who hid really bad caches...

 

1. No posting of one time caches

 

Actually, you can still do this. Just make your 'one time' caches part of an event. If your goal is to create a treasure hunt, on the other hand, there are other sites available where competitive geocaching is acceptable.

 

2. No posting without a logbook

 

'Find the tennis ball in the woods and e-mail me the brand name.' This is not a unique example of a problem 'cache'. Since it's possible to put a logbook in most any cache (search the forums for many suggestions), why complain about the requirement?

 

3. Cant post a cache within .10 miles from another cache

 

At some point, caches are too close together. If someone is finding one cache and logging it on another page by mistake, it leads to confusion and hard feelings. There needs to be a minimum standard. This is the one chosen.

 

4. Cant post a vacation cache

 

Sooner or later all caches need maintenance, if only to clean up the geotrash that used to be a perfectly good cache. Who does this? As someone with 'expendable income' you can no doubt hop a plane to anywhere in the world when your cache is reported to be having problems so you can fix or remove it, but most vacation cache hiders cannot. Maintenance is a requirement for good cache placement.

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Right, how do you maintain a one time cache Your argument is not addresssing my specific problem. Im not leaving junk here folks or anything that needs to be maintained Oh and by the way If you will be in Cozumel, Mexico anytime soon e-mail me for the coordinates for the Mexican Onza Silver Coin

 

ringbone@yahoo.com

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I don't understand why you cannot place a long term cache and have the first finders prize be one of your really good treasures. You have the fun of watching the hunt and others still can enjoy it as a regular cache afterwards. Also what is the complaint about the 0.10 rule. Do we really need caches closer than every 500 feet? I understand that you started when there aren't rules, but I don't see any major problems with the rules that were placed to date. But maybe I am getting Mopar disease! :lol: I seem to remember some comment about Mopar and his proximity to TPTB's nether regions!

 

edit- stupid typo

Edited by PSUPAUL
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1. No posting of one time caches

2. No posting without a logbook

3. Cant post a cache within .10 miles from another cache

4. Cant post a vacation cache

 

1. They are called Event Caches now.

 

2. This was a rule placed to keep micros from becomming so small that we would have to pack a magnifying glass in our bags. (overstated by the proponents, but TPTB liked them better than the rest of us, so we have the rule.)

 

3. Come on, you are talking about lowering the limit to less than 528 feet? Where do you cache where this is a problem? If anything, we need less geographic proximity (increase it to a mile between caches without permission).

 

4. You can if you can show that you go there regularly enough to maintain the cache. This is a good rule that keeps down the likelihood that we will turn on the news and see a bunch of boy scouts cleaning up a park only to see a geocache is the trash collected.

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  Right, how do you maintain a one time cache Your argument is not addresssing my specific problem. Im not leaving junk here folks or anything that needs to be maintained Oh and by the way If you will be in Cozumel, Mexico anytime soon e-mail me for the coordinates for the Mexican Onza Silver Coin

 

Well, in a way it does need to be maintained - what if it's removed by a non-geocacher prior to anyone finding it. The first DNF doesn't tell you anything - is it gone, or was it not found? Who is going to check on the cache to confirm? You'll have a number of people searching for something that may not be there. You end up in the same situation as a vacation cache.

 

In the year that you have been away, geocaching has grown exponetially. With that comes guidelines (not rules, feel free to advertise your cache on navicache). I believe that these are necessary to ensure continued enjoyment of the activity. Equally, gc.com needs to have guidelines to protect itself legally and ensure that enough money is generated to pay salaries and buy new servers.

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Some look at it as restrictive.

 

Some look at it as refining.

 

The rules--oh, excuse me, guidelines--are being generated by the ones that holler the loudest. If TPTB think it a good idea, then it's implemented.

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Right, how do you maintain a one time cache Your argument is not addresssing my specific problem. Im not leaving junk here folks or anything that needs to be maintained Oh and by the way If you will be in Cozumel, Mexico anytime soon e-mail me for the coordinates for the Mexican Onza Silver Coin

 

ringbone@yahoo.com

 

Your 'problem', as I understand it, is that you wish to set up treasure hunts. That's fine; there's plenty of treasure hunting sites on the web. Or you could use some of your 'expendable income' to set up your own site.

 

But what you are proposing is a competitive, winner take all, activity that is at odds with the commonly held definition of geocaching -

 

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

 

Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very simple:

 

1. Take something from the cache

 

2. Leave something in the cache

 

3. Write about it in the logbook

 

 

It's not 'take everything, leave nothing'. Welcome back to geocaching. Good luck as well with your treasure hunts.

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Your welcome to hide some of your loot here in Virginia Ringbone! :lol:

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4. Cant post a vacation cache

This one doesn't seem to be too strict. It's up to the approver if you'll be able to maintain the cache. If you regularly cache 500 miles from home, they'll probably approve your cache that's 500 miles from home.

 

"Vacation" is kind of vague. I took my last vacation in NYC, about 25 miles from home.

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1. No posting of one time caches

2. No posting without a logbook

3. Cant post a cache within .10 miles from another cache

4. Cant post a vacation cache

1. Temporary caches are allowed at cache events. You are expected to remove these temporary caches when the event is over. I'll be placing some temporary caches at my campout event in May. I'll be leaving one behind as a permanent cache to "memorialize" the event.

 

2. Logbooks are the only real "proof" that you've visited a cache. Having a logbook prevents the "I left some dirty sneakers in the woods. Find them and email me the brand and the size" type of cache. The minimum standard of proof is a logbook. On virtuals, it's a picture or a code-word.

 

3. You can post a cache within 0.1 miles of another, as long as there is a good reason. A river, cliff, or other obstacle may make the travel distance between two caches much more than 0.1 miles, but the actual distance between them may be much smaller. To place a cache closer than 0.1 miles, contact your approver prior to placing it.

 

4. Most people can't maintain a cache more than a couple of hours from their home. The vacation cache guideline is there so someone doesn't take a one-time trip to Hawaii and place a cache there. If the cache is missing or needs maintenance, the average cacher couldn't return to Hawaii within a reasonable amount of time (usually a month) in order to check on it. If you regularly visit another city, contact you approver in advance of placing a vacation cache and they may let you. At worst, you'll need to have a local cacher agree to maintain it for you between visits.

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A couple notes that I haven't seen mentioned yet. Namely, the direct problems with one-time caches. As I understand it:

 

1) Generally speaking, when you hide a cache, many people will try to find it. If it's gone after the first person finds it, you'll have several people hunting in vain, possibly damaging the environment in an attempt to find something that is not there. This is also a big part of why travelling caches are no longer approved (though there are some that have been grandfathered).

 

2) Because one-time caches are by definition only found by one person, allowing them would place a large burden on the volunteer cache approvers while providing a relatively small benefit to the caching community as a whole.

 

Hope this helps.

 

SylvrStorm

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When I decided to create a treasure hunt that didn't fit within the geocaching guidelines here I didn't complain about the guidelines. Instead, I took it as an opportunity to create my own site for the hunt. I had never created a web page before and this gave me the chance to exercise my grey matter a bit.

 

In the end, making the page was easier than I expected. I wouldn't call it masterful, but it works fine. You can check it out here.

 

You can also read about them here.

 

Bottom line, if it doesn't fit here find a place it does fit. If you can't find a place, create your own. In the end, it was a lot more fun than filling out the cache submission page here.

 

geospotter

 

BTW, it looks like I might be going to Mexico in a few weeks. I'd be happy to look for the coin!

Edited by geospotter
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The easiest thing to do is just accept the new way things are being done, get out do a little caching and CITO!!

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You forgot the moratorium on new locationless and the crackdown on virtuals.

 

But all things change and we must adapt.... for some it is better, for some it is worse.

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If you ever decide to place a treasure in Kelowna, BC i'm interested. My brother and i do one time caches for each other and they are a blast. There is an extra specialness about a find it, keep it cache that just isn't there with public caches. It's like reading poetry instead of reading a newspaper want-ad. i understand the rules. As any activity increases in participants, the regulation must also increase. There will naturally be a few people at either end of the curve that stray outside of the norm of the game. The rules, unfortunately, usually limit both those who are detrimental to the game, and those who take the game to an exciting new level like yourself. Rules maintain the status quo by nature. This limits the selfish, but it also naturally limits the philanthropist on occasion. The status quo is good for the Game even if it limits individuals. Thankfully individuals can still participate in there own games outside of the scope of the Game. Keep doing what you do, if you enjoy it, but realize that the Bell Curve will apply to just about any activity. As the participants increase, the curve will resolve itself and there will be more and more individuals outside the norm on either end.

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I think there should be a special designation for people like myself who enjoy watching the hunt for real treasure?

So you are saying that you should get special treatment just because you have money? Or because you want to play the game your way?

 

As others have said, there are other websites that cater to your kind of treasure hunt (I wouldn't call it geocaching).

 

I once searched for over an hour in the rain for a moving cache. Over the next couple of weeks others also searched for it. We later found out that the person who found it (the day before I went out there) didn't know what to do with the cache and was just holding onto it. So I have no interest in finding one of your one-shot treasure caches, no matter what is in it. The greater the value of the contents, the greater the chance that someone already got it.

 

 

RichardMoore

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Sorry Richardmoore but I have been a member since 2001 and suddenly the rules have changed i didnt ask for special treatment just fairness towards a fellow player. It surprises me the amount of negativity that spawns from these forums though. What if they suddenly didnt allow people with pirate pictures from geocaching how would you react? Also I find your response and your picture very Ironic. you have a right not to seek out my cache, fair enough how about supporting those fellow geocachers with there ideas; Am I to assume you invented the dictionary definition of "Geocacher" To say that geocaching is not a treasure hunt is to ignore the thing for what it is. Lets not exclude innovative ideas because we want to maintain the status quo. They idea of start my own club or join another is not an option. I am a 3 year member who has had some of his geocaching rights revoked and as a member I have a say. Today no caches within .10 miles of each other tommorrow no caches allowed in Ohio.

 

Ringbone

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Actually, I think Ohio caches are safe for now. I did recently sign a petition to forbid any geocaching in Wyoming, but that's a different thread. :lol:

 

Honestly, I don't get why you are so upset. The four guidelines that you discussed are reasonable, in my opinion. Certainly, geocaching has continued to grow even with these rules in place.

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1. No posting of one time caches

2. No posting without a logbook

3. Cant post a cache within .10 miles from another cache

4. Cant post a vacation cache

The more I think about this thread, the more I realize that solutions exist to allow you to play the game the way you wish to. The simplist is to partner with a cacher who is local to the area in which you would like to hide. (That was an incredibly ugly sentance, but who cares.) You and the partner cacher could place a regular cache (with a logbook) and a cool prize for the first-to-find. Of course, the .10 mile rule would still be enforced, but it is reasonable, don't you think?

 

You would get the enjoyment of watching people hunt for the treasure and the local caching community would get a new long-term cache to search for.

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Without commenting on my own feelings toward some of the "rules" of Geocaching.com sanctioned geocaching, might I make a suggestion? If you would like to place one-time only caches or extreme caches or some other variant that is not sanctioned by this listing site, why not use a model similar to what Team KFWB uses here in BC? They create a number of extreme caches with bigger-than-life prizes in them which are absolutely not permitted by GC. They send their cache notifications out via a mailing list to interested cachers who are more than happy to compete for the caches. Considering the types of caches you are hiding and the cool swag contained in them, I doubt very much that you would have problems getting people to signup to a mailing list to be notified when you plant a new cache.

 

Geocaching.com does not set the rules for geocaching, just for what can be listed on their site. GC is not the end all and be all of geocaching, its just a listing site. If you want to play a different variant, go for it. There are other listing sites and other ways of getting the word out. Here is another example of a recent variant which I am involved with that is not sanctioned by GC but which has had a huge acceptance by local cachers and several cachers from other countries who have stumbled across it.

 

There is more than one way to hide a cache.

 

_______________

Gorak

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Sorry Richardmoore but I have been a member since 2001 and suddenly the rules have changed i didnt ask for special treatment just fairness towards a fellow player. It surprises me the amount of negativity that spawns from these forums though. What if they suddenly didnt allow people with pirate pictures from geocaching how would you react? Also I find your response and your picture very Ironic. you have a right not to seek out my cache, fair enough how about supporting those fellow geocachers with there ideas; Am I to assume you invented the dictionary definition of "Geocacher" To say that geocaching is not a treasure hunt is to ignore the thing for what it is. Lets not exclude innovative ideas because we want to maintain the status quo. They idea of start my own club or join another is not an option. I am a 3 year member who has had some of his geocaching rights revoked and as a member I have a say.

Ringbone

Well, as someone who's been a member almost as long as you, and here lurking for almost a year before that, I can tell you the changes have not been sudden, or extreme. Most have been to keep the game from being banned by land managers. They are concerned about geocaches every 50ft in their parks. They are concerned about caches not being maintained and turning to litter. They are concerned about people tearing up the area looking for a 1 time cache that's already gone.

Today no caches within .10 miles of each other tommorrow no caches allowed in Ohio.

HA! You said OHIO? Ringbone, you have a few more changes to learn about. Mainly because of caches that were placed before the rules you are complaining about, geocaching HAS ALREADY BEEN BANNED in many parks in your state. Shame, maybe if those rules you want gone so bad had been in place a few yrs ago, you would actually be allowed to hide a cache hassle free.

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I haven't been caching too long, but whenever I heard people complaining about the "rules" I never understand why. I don't think the rules are so harsh in that they ruin the game. It's so easy to follow the rules, and get around them in a way that is good for everyone. The .10 rule really isnt a bad rule, because I think there definitely would be caches very close to eachother. THe approvers are also very cool about working with you and personally helping you out. Often, if you explain to them that there is no way to get the caches confused, they will sometimes let that rule bend a little. I agree with the numers stupid locationless's, so I dont care about the moratorium on that.

 

Also, it is still VERY possible to get a virtual approved. My friend just got one approved a couple weeks ago. You just have to be smart about it. If the approvers understand that the virtual is worth having, then it will be approved.

 

While I have often wanted to place a vacation cache, I agree that it is not a good idea. Too many times will they end up turning into junk. There is one around here that CONSTANTLY goes missing. It keeps getting replaced by local cachers, but the MANY TB's that have been put in the cache have gone missing. It's probably up to around 10 or more, and I think that really sucks for the owners. The fact that it is a vacation cache does not make it bad, but maybe people should think about replacing it over and over.

 

There is also one here that has turned into junk. It ended up being a piece of broken plastic with trash in it, sitting in the wilderness. It's such a piece of crap, and an eyesore, and no one wanted to clean it up. I finally trashed it.

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Ringbone, As the game grows from birth it has to grow up and learn and change in order to live. There are a lot more people in it now than before. There ahve to be some kind of guidelines. And everything Mopar said too.

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I enjoyed the more laid back easy times of 2-3 years ago myself. I see good and bad with geocaching becoming popular. I have more finds that I would have if it had remained the same but I don't get to hide a cache anyplace I like.

 

There is no going back, it is what it is.

 

You can hide a vacation cache as long as you have a local to maintain it for you. I've seen this a lot on Maui.

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Well, as someone who's been a member almost as long as you, and here lurking for almost a year before that, I can tell you the changes have not been sudden, or extreme. Most have been to keep the game from being banned by land managers. They are concerned about geocaches every 50ft in their parks. They are concerned about caches not being maintained and turning to litter. They are concerned about people tearing up the area looking for a 1 time cache that's already gone.

QUOTE

Today no caches within .10 miles of each other tommorrow no caches allowed in Ohio.

 

HA! You said OHIO? Ringbone, you have a few more changes to learn about. Mainly because of caches that were placed before the rules you are complaining about, geocaching HAS ALREADY BEEN BANNED in many parks in your state. Shame, maybe if those rules you want gone so bad had been in place a few yrs ago, you would actually be allowed to hide a cache hassle free.

 

I can't add to this other than sayying "ditto"

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Ringbone, you've hidden 7 caches (which I assume were one time caches since they are all archived, I didn't bother to read through them) & found only one. It would appear you've only enlightened possibly 8 or less people since your induction to geocaching. Maybe your prizes are larger than the average find but why not make this game fun for more than a "select few" then maybe you'd get a little more respect.

I've been at this for 2 or 3 years & never really needed to read the guidelines much, it's just common sense for the most part. Works for the majority of us... :o

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I have but one question for the people who are waving the flags of Groundspeak.

 

What's to happen when another site comes along and has more liberal guidelines, an easy to use UI, and people start flocking to "over there?"

 

Keep pushing people away and it's going to happen, when is the only variable.

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I have but one question for the people who are waving the flags of Groundspeak.

 

What's to happen when another site comes along and has more liberal guidelines, an easy to use UI, and people start flocking to "over there?"

 

Keep pushing people away and it's going to happen, when is the only variable.

Well, I would say that sounds a LOT like Groundspeak, the early years.

If/when it happens, the "liberal" site is gonna find themselves in the same shoes Jeremy did. When the liberal site is getting 52,000 cache logs a week, it's going to either have to tighten up those guidelines to please those who can regulate it, or liberalcaching.com will find itself banned out of business. It's a fine line Groundspeak must walk, pleasing both cachers and land managers, and I think they are doing a fine job walking it.

Edited by Mopar
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You're assuming it's going to use the single site model like that of geocaching.com.

 

What if it's a multitude of sites running software that is installed on various servers around the world where there is no central controlling body? What if this software is similar to forums software where anyone with a little bit of knowledge can install it on their server and instantly become a host for a few caches? ...maybe even a few hundred. It costs next to nothing to allow a few cachers to use the spare bandwidth of the hosting they are already paying for. Multiply this by hundreds and you have real problem.

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You're assuming it's going to use the single site model like that of geocaching.com..

No, actually I wasn't assuming that.

Face it, the rules/guidelines here really are minimal, and most people can see they are for the good of the game. Any other variation, that is just as popular with less rules, no matter how the data is distibuted, is going to attract even more attention from the landmanagers, and become even more regulated then geocaching.

Seriously, how many rules can you relax that don't effect the land managers? Only a few. "Liberalcaching.net" could allow logbookless, code word caches, what else? Buried caches? Caches every 75ft instead of .1 mile? caches in parks that are banned? Caches with drugs, knives, porno and booze (YEAH!)? Unmaintained caches littering the park? Relax any of those rules on a caching site as popular as this one, and you will see city, state, and national laws banning "liberalcaching" getting passed faster then a Yugo on the autobann.

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You're assuming it's going to use the single site model like that of geocaching.com.

 

What if it's a multitude of sites running software that is installed on various servers around the world where there is no central controlling body? What if this software is similar to forums software where anyone with a little bit of knowledge can install it on their server and instantly become a host for a few caches? ...maybe even a few hundred. It costs next to nothing to allow a few cachers to use the spare bandwidth of the hosting they are already paying for. Multiply this by hundreds and you have real problem.

Aside from bandwidth problems that can be solved as you suggest CR, this still leaves the problem of land managers and officials banning geocaching because of ill placed geocaches that exist outside of the guidelines.

 

If gc.com doesn't change and adapt as geocaching changes, then yes, other sites could become more popular. But I can't see any of the current rules causing that.

 

IMHO, the only way a 'competing' site will succeed will be by specialization - geocaching for just one country, maybe in a foreign langauge, or a site that specializes in locationeless only. With the time invested that cachers have invested in gc.com, with logs, hides, etc. there would have to be some radical and widely undesirable changes by TPTB.

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Expendable income can’t buy real treasure… ask the person who found it. At the end of my day it’s the memories in my mind not the metal in my pocket that matter most!

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Expendable income can’t buy real treasure… ask the person who found it. At the end of my day it’s the memories in my mind not the metal in my pocket that matter most!

 

Well said! :o

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getting passed faster then a Yugo on the autobann.

Hey! Wait a minute. I used to have a Yugo. It was a quick little car and surprisingly unstoppable in the snow. I didn't have any touble passing anyone on the highway.

But then again, I did say that I used to have one.

Never mind.

You can return to the subject now.

 

RichardMoore

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getting passed faster then a Yugo on the autobann.

Hey! Wait a minute. I used to have a Yugo. It was a quick little car and surprisingly unstoppable in the snow. I didn't have any touble passing anyone on the highway.

But then again, I did say that I used to have one.

Never mind.

You can return to the subject now.

 

RichardMoore

I have a friend that used to work at an auto parts store. One day, a guy walks in and ask's for a gas cap for his Hugo. My buddy, being the legendary smarta** that he is, say's " HMMMM...............a gas cap for a Hugo.................Well.........OK......... sounds like a fair trade"!!! Cracked me up! Maybe that Hugo ended up in an ammo can somewhere? :o:D

 

Speeling edit!

Edited by Spzzmoose
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Sorry you do not like the rules. There seem to be others from time to time who also do not like them. They seem to go away after awhile, then again they may be back in a year who knows.

 

Several who have been around these forums and the GC site for some time have provided some well said comments as to the need for the rules in question and rules in general.

 

Considering the site and its use is free to use as long as you follow the rules and even if you pay you are still agreeing to go by the same rules. Should they change and you do not like it then leave or maybe instead start your own site after all as best I can tell nobody here is being force to be here. :o:D

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I have but one question for the people who are waving the flags of Groundspeak.

 

What's to happen when another site comes along and has more liberal guidelines, an easy to use UI, and people start flocking to "over there?"

 

Keep pushing people away and it's going to happen, when is the only variable.

Let me continue to use RichardMoore's home state of Ohio as the example, in order to respond to your question, CR. I am the cache approver responsible for the area where RichardMoore caches. Within 100 miles of his home, if Richard wants to place a cache, he has to be mindful of the following:

 

1. The Cuyahoga National Park has a flat-out ban on geocaching.

2. The National Wildlife Refuge on the shores of Lake Erie recently banned geocaching.

3. The Cleveland MetroParks and the Geauga County MetroParks are pro-caching, but they place their OWN caches and don't allow caches from individuals. I archived a submission in a Geauga County park just today. Trust me, if it had slipped by or if it's published on another site, they'd get wind of it. The park managers have accounts here, they read the forums, they know what other sites are out there.

4. Just southeast of RichardMoore, there's a County Park System that LOVES geocaching and encourages the placement of as many caches there as possible, in order to promote greater tourism.

5. Just west of RichardMoore, there's the Lorain County Parks, which issued a flat-out ban on caches that got REVERSED in favor of a permit system after a few hard-working geocachers lobbied the parks for close to a YEAR to show how they would act responsibly when placing caches.

6. To the Southwest of RichardMoore, there is a county park system that is presently considering a cache permit system which would require BIWEEKLY maintenance visits and a report to the park manager on each visitor to the cache and what items were taken and left from the cache. I kid you not. A local geocaching group is working with this park system to develop a more rational permit scheme.

7. Immediately to the east of THAT county, there is another Ohio county that has an outright geocaching ban in its county parks. The ban resulted from an incident where a park ranger stumbled across a geocache that had a penknife in it, which "violated" the law against bringing "weapons" into the park. Repeat instances of this across the country led to the inclusion of the "no knives in caches" section of the Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines. I didn't make it up and Jeremy didn't make it up. The land managers rather forced its addition to the guidelines. And much the same way for other "oppressive rules" complained of.

8. Finally, completing our survey of the regulatory landscape, overlaid on all of this is Ohio's fine State Park and State Forest system. Caches are allowed there with permission, but caches placed without permission may result in prosecution. Caches are banned in wildlife preserves and natural areas administered by the same land manager, ODNR.

 

As the regional cache approver, I have all of these regulations committed to memory. I check each and every submission to ensure that it complies with the land manager's policies. If it does not, I work with the cache hider to help them obtain permission. The cache won't be listed if there is a known permission policy until compliance is demonstrated.

 

RichardMoore and his fellow geocachers in NEOGeo, the local caching group, work very hard with all of the land managers. I correspond with their officers and they are appreciative of my role as a "gatekeeper." It helps to maintain good relations and keeps caching from getting banned or even further regulated.

 

How will this complex patchwork system of regulations be administered on opencaching.com? How is it administered today at navicache? Don't say "rely on the owner and the other local cachers." I have too many examples EACH WEEK of cache hiders who violate one or more of the land manager permission rules described above.

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What about the the memories in my mind. I guess one of the problems that i have with all the responses with my disposable income statement was the assumption that I was wealthy. Maybe. Maybe generous. The simple fact is: I used to be able to leave one time caches and now Im cencored from doing so. I left some coins and other trinkets of value (monetary) and now It is forbidden. Has anything changed? The argument of land managers etc etc doesnt hold water. People are geocaching, people are going to continue geocaching. The fact that geocaching even exists can be viewed as problematic if one looks at it in the big picture, trespassing issues, ecologic issues etc. I thought Geocaching was about getting out there and finding something that other people hid, and then coming back to your computer and checking it out. That was what it was about. Log books, ammo cans, cameras OK. I remember a few years ago the big gripe was commercialism of the site. Now there are travel bugs for sale, geocoins for $4.95 each, tshirts for sale. And 30.00 a year for a premier membership that does what? Is Groundspeak a nonprofit orginization? Am I ruining the environment by leaving a coin in the woods or maybe I should put in in a five gallon container. Im a guy who is out hiding stuff in remote places, and watching to see what happens, just like you. What needs to be maintained, with respect to one time caches: The five gallon bucket that gets left behind when someone finds my little coin. Resposible people will be responsible and irresponsible people will be irresponsible regardless of whether they geocache a gold swiss franc coin or a wooden nickle. Whew And this is what I did on my day off. Ill just have to get more creative I guess. Be on the lookout you might find something neat

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<snip> Ill just have to get more creative I guess. Be on the lookout you might find something neat

Thanks for the warning. Trust me we will.

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Ill just have to get more creative I guess. Be on the lookout you might find something neat

 

I hope in the end, that is all you take away from this discussion. That's exactly what all of us do. We follow the rules, and we get creative, and we still leave plenty of neat things for everyone!

 

The game is still a lot of fun, and that's all that matters!

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:D After having been away From Geocaching for almost a year I was surprised to come back and see that my club (geocaching) has changed for the worse

Maybe you should have a doctor check it. Ringbone sounds downright painful. :o

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I have but one question for the people who are waving the flags of Groundspeak.

 

What's to happen when another site comes along and has more liberal guidelines, an easy to use UI, and people start flocking to "over there?"

 

 

Keep pushing people away and it's going to happen, when is the only variable.

 

 

 

 

Here's on who has waved Groundspeaks flag to two Welsh Assembly Depts, who thought Groundspeak was a well thought out, and presented site!

 

 

Let them! And watch Geocaching get banned in more places, and caches removed. As a example, here in the UK 17 caches were removed in a area which is mostly private land, but were a government dept has strict control over what happens in that area. No attempt was made to return the containers or contents, including TB's to their owners. It was only after negotiations were started with this dept, that the containers were returned. Negotiations are currently ongoing, and it's guaranteed that the final rules will be stricter than Groundspeaks.

 

 

There is already a alternative site for people to list their caches on. I don't see many people deserting Groundspeak for it! Once again only using the UK as a example, Gound speak has over 25000, caches listed in the Uk alone, I can't even give you the no that were listed in 2003. The othe other has approx 125 0r less, listed for the UK. With only 13 new caches listed in the UK in 2003. So much for pushing people away.

 

If you are not happy With the status quo here why not go exclusively to the other site? Thousands of users here on this site, have no major issues to grind away at. And when you consider the small amount of users who actualy populate these forums, and the hand full of people who actually keep complaining, Jeremy and his team must have it right!

Dave

Edited by Mancunian Pyrocacher
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I think the rules you've listed are just fine. There needs to be some order to all of this or we have total mayhem.

 

I don't think the minimum should be raised to 1 mile, though, as suggested by bigredmed.

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Why the rule change? I am a person with expendable income and I enjoy leaving treasure for those to find. My caches require no digging, trogging and are eco friendly. I think there should be a special designation for people like myself who enjoy watching the hunt for real treasure? Why exclude me now?

 

Nobody's excluding you. You can easily place those excellent items in a cache that meets the guidelines.

 

What's to happen when another site comes along and has more liberal guidelines, an easy to use UI, and people start flocking to "over there?"

 

There is one and I haven't noticed anybody flocking there.

 

I only hope that any other sites are half as responsible as this one in what they choose to list. Most of GC.COM's guidelines were developed for reasons...they just didn't wake up one morning and say "Hey, lets ban vacation caches". They banned vacation caches because vacationers were leaving caches that turned into litter, or were placing caches in violation of local regulations because they simply weren't aware of them. Or placing caches within a few feet of existing caches, because they didn't bother to check for them, or placing caches that jeopardized the local geocaching community's negotiations with park officials.

Edited by briansnat
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